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URL:  https://boards.fool.com/the-demagogues-and-tyrants-in-government-who-32151641.aspx

Subject:  Re: 401k fail? Date:  3/9/2016  2:29 PM
Author:  Goofyhoofy Number:  79235 of 95667

the demagogues and tyrants in Government, who tell them that Social Security is such a great deal that it needs to be expanded, despite the real return to people of just 1%, after taking 12% of worker income for their entire career.

This analysis, so popular with wingnuts, always ignores the disability insurance that Social Security provides each and every year of the recipients life - and that once that is figured in, the "discrepancy" completely disappears.

It's hard to know whether that omission is deliberately dishonest, or just sheer ignorance, but since it has been debunked dozens, if not hundreds of times on these very boards, I'm going to go with "dishonest."

It's also disheartening to know that there are simple facts about Social Security which are completely ignored: like the fact that prior to its existence half of elder Americans lived in poverty, and now that number is in single digits (*and those mostly from the few still not covered).

In case you hadn't noticed, we've spent TENS OF TRILLIONS on poverty over the last 50 years, and we have a record number of people on food stamps

It's true that there are many people using food stamps. Who are they? Nearly half are children. 10 percent are seniors, and the rest are mostly people working in minimum wage jobs, waiting for the trickle down to trickle. I understand that in the Randian universe they would be left to die in the street, although even someone as BSC as Donald Trump doesn't want to see that happen (it would make the entrances to his buildings so messy, after all.)

I think it's you that are naive, or just not tapped into reality.

Here's reality: every first world country on the planet has some form of Social Security, nearly always a government program which transfers from the working population to the elderly and with near universal participation. Nearly every third world country on the planet does not.

Here's reality: if the minimum wage (not the average wage, mind you, just the minimum) kept pace with worker productivity, it would be $22/hour. But it hasn't, because workers have little bargaining power and there is always a surplus of hungry mouths.

Here's reality: prior to the advent of Social Security, nearly half the country lived on farms. With grandma and grandpa in the attic and the kiddies helping out with the harvest. That is no longer true, and unless people want to go back to living with ma and pa, it isn't going to be again, so we have Social Security to provide those elders some small income stream when corporate America decides it no longer has use for them.

Here's reality: before Social Security half of seniors lived in poverty. If Social Security disappeared tomorrow, half of elders would again - but they don't here in "reality", so it is safe to conclude that the program has altered outcome, but not behavior. Those who became rich, or who saved enough still do. Those who did not or could not still don't. And therefore:

The "reality" that the program inspires seems to be dishonesty, ignorance, or mental illness on the part of those who refuse to see "reality". EOM.
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