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URL:  https://boards.fool.com/declare-i-explain-it-thoroughly-over-and-over-34146668.aspx

Subject:  Re: Libet and free will revisited Date:  3/1/2019  8:00 AM
Author:  btresist Number:  26717 of 27000

Declare? I explain it thoroughly, over and over.

Yup, and then you dismiss it as a contradiction for mostly semantic reasons. There is no reason why something that appears contradictory to us humans can't be real...things being simultaneously particle and wave attests to that.

By their behavior, including their descriptions of their own thinking processes. How else would you 'test' it? For example, an artificial intelligence that didn't report its own subjective experiences would not be behaving very similar to humans. So I wouldn't think it have subjective experiences or consciousness similar to humans.

You make my point. Your test is either completely subjective ("Do you feel you have subjective experiences") or vague ("...by their behavior"). What behavior would demonstrate a conscious mind? If a person told you that he had no subjective experiences how would you test that? The best you can say is that he behaves like he has subjective thoughts but whose to say the same behavior couldn't occur without consciousness?

Compare that with something we know is completely material, malaria. We can measure things that determine whether or not a person has malaria, no subjectivity required. His opinion or my opinion don't matter. Can't do that with subjective experience. Do dogs have subjective experiences? We all have opinions on that but who really knows since we can't objectively measure the subjective.

Similarly, an artificial intelligence that told me things about its own thoughts and experiences and then behaved completely contradictory to that would make me think it was lying about one or the other.

What exactly would be behavior contradictory of subjective thoughts? Are you suggesting that a conscious mind would make decisions differently from a non-conscious brain? Be careful, as this has the beginnings of an argument for the existence of free will...
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