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Religion & Culture / Creation vs. Evolution


Subject:  Re: Libet and free will revisited Date:  3/8/2019  12:12 AM
Author:  btresist Number:  26755 of 27149

It would arise from complexity, not from additional bits of (slightly-conscious) matter.

Can you name anything else that arises out of complexity that has properties that are totally absent in the component parts? From complexity one can get enhanced properties but I know of no instance where a completely novel property emerges. Physical stuff that one can measure is completely different from subjective thoughts that cannot be measured. I don't see how one can get the subjective from the physical unless the physical contains elements of the subjective.

I cannot claim you are wrong, but I haven't seen any measurements of how much consciousness is associated with our sun (just to pick the biggest thing within about 4 light years of here). So I remain skeptical that the universe is in any way 'conscious' or self-aware, even as organisms within it may be.

To make this statement you must have some way of detecting whether some one or thing is conscious. I am curious to know what your "consciousness detector" might be.

That's EPR (among other things), and I think you mean the Bell Inequality (just being pedantic)...Those are really odd, to be sure, but not really new to me. I may no longer be in research, but I still try to pay attention to interesting things like that.

You misunderstood my post. I'm sure you are familiar with EPR and Bell. I was referring to a specific experiment colloquially called the Big Bell Test whose methodology was based on the assumption that human free will provides a greater level of unpredictability than mechanical or physical methods of randomization. From the Nature paper:

"...Bell himself noted this weakness in using physical setting choices and argued that human ‘free will’ could be used rigorously to ensure unpredictability in Bell tests. Here we report a set of local-realism tests using human choices, which avoids assumptions about predictability in physics...

It is a pretty cool experiment based on the premise that human behavior goes beyond simple determinism.
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