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Subject:  Re: Libet and free will revisited Date:  3/11/2019  9:52 AM
Author:  btresist Number:  26766 of 27155

I have answered it. A few times. The answer is "it's not my burden". As I explained in detail last time.

Okay, so let me make sure I understand your position. You have personal experiences of both consciousness and free will. You have no other evidence supporting or denying the existence of either. You believe you have consciousness but do not believe you have free will. In other words, even without evidence of any sort, you would rather believe your brain is lying to you about free will and that you have no conscious control of your behavior. Do I have that right?

You are making the extraordinary claim that matter has consciousness.

I am saying consciousness is a property of matter. This is based on the observation that a universe that only contains matter also contains consciousness. Why is that extraordinary?

Quantum has never been deterministic.

And there are many in science who believe that some aspects of brain behavior, particularly those involved in conscious thought, are quantum mechanical phenomena. If so, then I gather you would agree that such behaviors would not be deterministic.

I disagree that the subjective is evidence.

I find this a really odd statement and perhaps it stems from different definitions of subjective. My definition of subjective is anything experienced by the conscious mind. Perceiving a stop sign while driving is subjective, as is the perception that it is my free will choice to decide whether to stop or not. I bet you rarely question the many things you subjectively perceive while driving, because if you did it would be very difficult to drive (...should I trust my subjective perception of that traffic light?...). If so, then despite what you write here to resist having free will, the fact is that in every day life you usually assume the subjective is evidence of what exists in the real world.

...but the doctor is NOT going to put you on chemo because you say your head hurts. He'll do it if there is a mass on the MRI image, and then subsequent biopsy shows it is malignant. The original complaint is quite insufficient to reach the conclusion "cancer".

Sorry to be blunt, but that is a pretty weak example. It simply shows that the doctor requires more information to make a diagnosis. It doesn't demonstrate that the doctor doubts the subjective perception of the patient. Just the opposite, the doctor trusts it enough to look for the objective cause of that subjective perception of pain.

You need to work on your analogies.

Seriously, think about it for a moment. Sure the human brain makes mistakes, but if our subjective perceptions weren't accurate about reality the great majority of the time I doubt the human species would have survived this long. We would be running away from imaginary predators while ignoring real ones.
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