Skip to main content
No. of Recommendations: 5
I can't take it. See, I am so UP DOWN it's ridiculous. I think it was yesterday how I posted good news/bad news.

I am trying to hard to be patient. Every day I look at my checking account or budget or ANYTHING and I cry. Literally. In tears. I have tried and tried to get Fiance to get a PT job. HE STILL HAS NOT. I joined TMF in the begining of April. I remember him PROMISING me he would. He has not. It is May 12. It's been over a month.

I got a PT job, and I've also been cleaning houses for some extra money. I had my dad stop taking out so much money for taxes, which gave us an extra $160.00 a month. I've increased our income to 720 a month.

What has he done? NOTHING.

Yesterday he went to the store that I work at, but a different location. They would have hired him on the spot, but the days weren't convenient enough for him. He is in a band, and they interfere with his practice time.

I've absolutely had it.

Why is nothing good enough for me? He's been cleaning and doing things when I ask him (when I'm working) and leaves me lovely and cute notes all the time. I laugh when I read them and melt when he comes home.

Then, I come to work, balance the books and look at how we are doing for the budget. Then I blame him for not getting a PT job.

Enough is enough. I'm going to give myself a stroke. Literally. I really don't know how much more I can take.

I called him on my way back from lunch and asked him if he was going to go to the store to get the job, when he informed me that he wasn't going to till next MONTH. I absolutely lost it, tears, screaming...you name it.

I just can't deal with this anymore. I get home, I do what needs to be done. I have no time for ME anymore.....I just can't LEAVE things.

I really need to vent. Thanks for listening.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
hon.....

chill out. You can't solve his issues, only yours. It sounds to me like he's being a bit selfish (like most men), a bit tender (like most men), and a feeling a bit under the gun (men hate being under a gun!).

Don't blame him for not getting a PT Job. Maybe there are other reasons why he hasn't gotten one yet? Could be that he's wanting the band to be the extra income, it just hasn't happened yet?

I've been there, done that, wrecked a relationship by being buttheaded about money (we had none), and solved MY issues to get MY finances in order. Let him solve his own side of things.

Remember, he's doing things when you ask, which is more than my wrecked relationship partner would do. Just quietly, intelligently, lay out how you feel and ask him what he CAN do, not tell him what he MUST do (major mistake on my part, if i recall correctly).

I would suggest a sit down, heart to heart discussion along the lines of, "I feel like you are not pulling your weight" conversation without yelling, shouting, screaming, crying (god forbid I would ever cry).

I know you weren't looking for advice, but....I hope this helps.

HUG
Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I was looking for advice but i'm afraid of looking like a drama queen. ha!

heart to hearts with us turn into "i'm attacking him" or him just sitting there, saying nothing except "I know, I know". Which means i'm a horrible nag.

my finances are OUR finances.

the cc are in his name but they are ours, meaning we both used them. we live together and have one checking account. my bills are his etc. i hope that clears some stuff up.

the band is not extra income...they use the $ from gigs for their expenses. he has not seen one penny.

i can't even explain anymore. it's hard....it all sounds so petty when i type it all out but it's not. it really isn't.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
Sounds a lot like my nanny's husband. She's 22, been married for a little over 3 years, has a 3-year-old son.

They originally lived up here (metro Detroit), moved to Texas when the husband got a "dream job". It lasted for about a year, then he was laid off. They moved back here and lived with her parents.

Other than checking out (and failing to get) a job at a local Blockbuster store, the husband hasn't bothered to look for a job. He spends the day over at friends' houses, just BS'ing around.

So the only income for their household is her nanny job. She and her son moved closer to my house, to an apartment. But the husband didn't move with her, he's at his own parents. So with an income of $1600 a month, she's got to take care of herself and her son.

It's been almost a month and the husband has not been in contact with her.

Where do jerks like this come from?


Duck
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
Yesterday he went to the store that I work at, but a different location. They would have hired him on the spot, but the days weren't convenient enough for him. He is in a band, and they interfere with his practice time.

I've absolutely had it.
CID
======================================
1. You do NOT have a finance problem... you have a fiance problem...

2. He is perfectly happy to bumble along, as long as he can depend on you to handle all the stupid annoying *details*... like money, keeping the nest clean, money, food on the table, money, roof over your heads, money, clean clothes, money, etc, etc.

3. You need to VERY bluntly explain the facts of life to your writer of lovely and heart-melting notes. (And you need to do it NOW.)

KEEP AN EYE ON THE IRS TAXES THING; make sure you know what's going to be due April 15th of next year and make sure you have the base covered.

BB
[Do we know each other??? Your story sounds amazingly similar to a situation we have with a niece and her band-member heart-throb! She got the same advice from us as above.]
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
So with an income of $1600 a month, she's got to take care of herself and her son.

It's been almost a month and the husband has not been in contact with her.


No contact actually sounds like a positive to me. And $1600/mo isn't great, but at least she's the only one spending it.

Ugh. Money problems are the pits.

Cori
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
...the cc are in his name but they are ours, meaning we both used them...
CID
========================================
Didn't see this tidbit before...

After some CLOSE consultation with someone who knows the law solid, consider walking away from HIS CC debt, and let HIS credit report take the BIG BATH / HIT...

Use the money saved to retire other debt...

As I say, I don't know if you can even think of this, since you've used the card[s], paid on them, etc, etc, but I throw it out for consideration.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Wow, BB, I don't think we know each other, but what brought up the taxes?

How did you know? When we first met I noticed a State of Il tax bill for only 183 bucks on his desk. He never paid it. Two years later, he gets a bill for over a grand. Yup, penalty and interest.

This year gets better.

He owed 500+ bc he was claiming two on his W40.

Yup, so we had to come up with and pay over a grand this year in taxes.

Guess where it came from?

My tax refund. I worked so hard to make my budget work on what I got paid and I got a great refund. Half of it went to his taxes.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
As I say, I don't know if you can even think of this, since you've used the card[s], paid on them, etc, etc, but I throw it out for consideration.

I've thought about it. But that, to me, is just too cruel. I created some of the debt, I have to pay some of the debt.

But this is seriously throwing me into a downward spiral. I never used to breakdown before. I am now every day.
I used to be so strong. I feel weak now.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 12
I never used to breakdown before.

I am now every day.

I used to be so strong. I feel weak now.
CID
=====================================
You are in a destructive relationship.

If the element[s] of the relationship that are doing the destruction aren't fixed, you will be destroyed.

If that happens, you'll be destroyed, AND there will BE no relationship.

Fix them. Now.

Or get out of it. Now.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
I would consider keeping a separate checking account from your DF. That way, you know where your money is going. Personally (may not work for you...), I prefer not having my finances mingled with someone elses. Even when I get married in the future, I WILL keep my own account - for my own sanity!

Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
You know, CID, you're not married yet. Why are your financial lives so tied together? If I were you, I would start separating your finances, ASAP. Sounds like you're doing all the supporting, and he's just along for the ride.

If he's not willing to do more to bring in some money, he needs to be working hard at spending less, looking for ways to make what you do have work better. It doesn't sound like he puts much effort into that. You've said he does things around the house when you ask him to, but does he take the initiative to do them again next time they need to be done, or do you have to ask again then? Does he identify things that need doing on his own and take action?

Yesterday he went to the store that I work at, but a different location. They would have hired him on the spot, but the days weren't convenient enough for him. He is in a band, and they interfere with his practice time.

the band is not extra income...they use the $ from gigs for their expenses. he has not seen one penny.


Oh, I see. He gets to play, entertain his avocation, while you slave away to try to make ends meet. What's wrong with that picture?! Excuse me, but I think he should be fitting his band practice around his work hours, not the other way around!

Cute little love notes are sweet, but they don't pay the bills.

You're right, you can't do it all. If you two are really in this together, it's time to sit down and figure out how both of you are going to pull together to make things work. If you can't communicate effectively and aren't working together to better your lives, you're in for a long, hard life with this man.

Good luck working through this, hon. And do your best to stay sane!

Cori
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 6
You know, CID, you're not married yet. Why are your financial lives so tied together? If I were you, I would start separating your finances, ASAP. Sounds like you're doing all the supporting, and he's just along for the ride.

It was my idea to get the one checking account. Yep, bad idea. I seriously don't know what to do. I'm thinking of giving him the ring back. I've actually been thinking that and it breaks my heart. I love him and I know he loves me but I certainly don't want to be dealing with this crap in 5, 10, 15 years. The mortgage is in both of our names, the cars are in both of our names, everything but the CC. My name is on them as an "authorized" user but that's it.

I can't believe what I just found out.

I did a quick excel spreadsheet on what I make, and what my bills are (I split our joint stuff in half). And the same with him.

I have a surplus of over 500 a month while he has over 500 in debt. Who covers that debt? Yup, my surplus.

Thanks for the realization. I'm emailing the spreadsheet to him right now and telling him NO MORE.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
You don't sound petty, but you do sound like you have a relationship problem. It seems apparent that your fiance has different financial goals or none at all. If you are looking ahead to marriage you had better solve this. I've been married 31 years and the biggest disagreements have been over money.

Your fiance doesn't seem (from what you write) to want to work. He's happy to help out with the housework and all, but doesn't sound like he wants to be tied down to a schedule. You all need to investigate together why that is and if there is some alternative that can still be financially beneficial.

You have every right to be sad or depressed about this. It is a relatively big problem. However, if you are able to approach it with him calmly he will probably be more receptive.

Just my 2 cents which is more than it's worth.

Pam
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Well it is HIS debt unless you signed one time and one time only on a receipt with the card. Then the credit card company can hold you liable.

Pam
ex bankruptcy attorney
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
hon -

this says alot. There are posts on the CC board about someone who was going through these exact same issues. (I forget her name......*sigh*)

Take a long, hard look at things and make the best decision for YOURSELF.

Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
You know, something that is super disturbing is that on a recent long car ride with him, this subject of money came up. His parents are well off, but only because they worked very hard at becoming that way. He has been told that he is in the will (for everything). He told me that although I worry about money all the time he doesn't and it's because he knows he will be getting a large inheritance. It's not like he's praying for his parents to drop dead (he has a great relationship with them) but seriously, that is just wrong to count on that. He's also counting on getting some money from our wedding. Which is really crappy to do to (if we ever get married!).

I want to earn my money not count on it. I told him that too. I just spat out a whole bunch of garbage to him and guess what? Not one word. So I feel even more idiotic, because I am talking to a brick wall. Of course, he is at work, and I know we shouldn't be using PFC but right now that's the only time I get to talk to him.


Yes I have signed on the CC, all of them.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
this says alot. There are posts on the CC board about someone who was going through these exact same issues. (I forget her name......*sigh*)

Um, it was probably me.


Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
JBeauty

Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Sounds like he's doing a lot of "pie in the sky" planning. That usually does not pay off.

Also I think this should show what his attitude toward finances is. Someday you might have children with him to support, this is not a great start.

Hoping things get better.

Pam
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
How did you know? When we first met I noticed a State of Il tax bill for only 183 bucks on his desk. He never paid it. Two years later, he gets a bill for over a grand. Yup, penalty and interest.

This year gets better.

He owed 500+ bc he was claiming two on his W40.

Yup, so we had to come up with and pay over a grand this year in taxes.

Guess where it came from?

My tax refund. I worked so hard to make my budget work on what I got paid and I got a great refund. Half of it went to his taxes.


I'm sorry that you're going through all this.

I have to say that from my experiences and from what I've read on here for the last 6 years, I will never again comingle finances with anyone, ever. I only know one couple, IRL, that is totally on the same page financially, and they have some stuff mingled but each also have some of their own things - retirement accounts, a cc, etc

Ishtar
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0

this says alot. There are posts on the CC board about someone who was going through these exact same issues. (I forget her name......*sigh*)

Take a long, hard look at things and make the best decision for YOURSELF.


You know, I haven't read the CC bd in about 3 years, but there is always at least one person, usually female (though not always) that is going through this.

Ishtar
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 11
Kelly,

I've read all of your replies so far. I'll add just a couple of things.

My husband and I have had joint accts practically from the day we met (well, maybe not quite) and it hasn't been a problem *for us*. It certainly could be, but we've figured out how we best manage and we just do it. We joke that he makes the money and I spend the money, and in a way that's pretty close to the truth, but he's making money for the benefit of the family, and I am spending money for the benefit of the family.

I was married before. To a jerk. It was an AWFUL marriage for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with anything right now. Anyway, other than my first two kids, the one thing that I got out of that relationship was the certainty that I will never meet a guy who I can change. I dated a bunch in the couple of years before I met Jeff, but rarely seriously. I just didn't find anyone who I was willing to put up with. Really.

Then I met Jeff. He is really a great guy. There were a couple of things about Jeff that I really didn't like. And I guess there still are, but in a different way. Anyway, I told myself that I really liked him, but that he may continue to do things that I disliked for the rest of our lives and if I decided that I wanted to be with him then I was deciding to accept that. Obviously I decided that I could deal with him, faults and all. There were a couple of times, especially early on, when I wanted to take him and shake him. I reminded myself that I knew these things when I decided to be with him. Gradually, over time, he has changed some things, and other things don't bother me as much or they don't come up all that often.

My point in all of this is that you need to look at your fiance and either say, "I love this guy and I want to be with him just the way he is forever," or "I love this guy but if he doesn't change X, Y, and Z then it's going to drive me crazy forever and he's just going to have to change." If you pick number 2, it's not going to work. Number 1 can work, but you have to be honest with yourself. Basically, you have to decide what you want. You can set boundaries. You can separate your accts if that will make it better, but you can't change him. (IMHO, separate accts don't change anything. If you are committed to each other you will not let each other sink, no matter whose name is on the acct. We do a joint acct because it's easier for me to balance everything when it's all together. Again, we are both working toward the same goals, even though our contributions are completely different.)

That's really all I have to add. Your relationship needs to be on your terms. You've gotten some good feedback, but it only matters if YOU can deal with your DF's contribution. If YOU can accept it, then your relationship IS doable. If you can't accept it... well, then it's not going to work as well.

Rebecca
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 13
Have just noticed this thread here and only skimmed the general responses and your own situation. Please note I have not gone to the CC board and I don't know what else.

Note that I confess I'm thinking and talking more about my own past mistakes and experiences, but your own current situation parallels my own past experiences, I can't see you individually outside of me.

If I could go back in time twenty years ago and talk to myself then, this is some of the things I wish I could say to myself as well as you.

RUN THE FCUK AWAY SCREAMING FROM THIS MAN !!!!

I've been through this THREE TIMES with three different so-called men, never thinking it would ever happen again. It's taken me a while, but I'm learning. The first was the worst, but I didn't learn enough from him and still repeated my mistakes.

If you don't run from him, I promise you that you will be spending the rest of your relationship, or years afterwards, or possibly the rest of your life, paying off for this man's inability and unwillingness to accept fiscal (and probably other) responsibility and accountability for himself.

If he didn't get a clue from you talking, coaching, pleading with him, he is not going to change because you want him to. Promise of impending marriage will *not* help things, in fact, probably solidify anything further, joint names or whatever.

Things will NEVER improve in the future: it will stay like this, times ten. Or a hundred. Or possibly even a thousand.

If you're doing this because (like me) I wanted to help someone (well, three different someones) who showed seemingly strong promise and just 'needed a break' and someone to help and support him as he 'struggled' to reach his own goals, all your unconditional love and support is never going to help him reach his supposed goals and make him love you more for it. He'll only resent you for being too needy and demanding on him to change, do something, help you with the burden that you've been carrying for him. You will be putting your own life on hold waiting for the day that he may come and relieve you after all of your self-sacrifice. It ain't gonna happen. When you are too burnt out and have outlived your usefulness, he's going to find another young, dumb, and fiscally responsible chickie to bail him out.

You'll be left with the debts, the depression, the stress, the wasted years, effort, and emotional energy, depleted fiscally, emotionally, and mentally.

Of course, he's going to blame his own bad credit history on his ex (you) because he trusted and believed in you. My first ex said this about his previous ex's (strange how I had two predecessors who he said were fiscally 'irresponsible' and yet when I've known them myself, they were very conscientious about things... like me?). Strange how he is never to be blamed about the chaos, it's always about the unfairness of the world, never him. Never a real acknowledgement of his own culpabilities and he never has any real liabilities, just false accusations and unreasonable demands.

If you still have to marry him: Go get an iron clad prenupt and see if he'll run away. Get your *own* lawyer and your *own* accountant.

If not, I strongly recommend, and please don't take this as an insult because it's not, see a therapist for yourself, without him. Yes, it will cost money, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (or $1,000 for therapy today for a few months will be worth the $100,000 you'll be paying in debts going forward and the years of hard work and youth you'll never be able to regain). Find out why you have to be with an immature, irresponsible loser who only 'you' can bail out and why you equate giving him financial access to your life you think is love. It's not healthy, sweetie, and it's also not right. This isn't love when it's all about you doing all the work and making all the commitments. Even if his name is on it, it doesn't mean squat: you've been paying for everything, right? you get all the responsibility, and he ultimately gets all the credit without lifting a finger. You are in essence co-signing your name to everything he wants because you and I both know he's never going to pay for squat. Maybe sometimes he'll do it temporarily to appease you, but it will always flip back to you.

PLEASE: Run the FCUK away from him.

BTDT,
Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
Also, sweetie, an adult, mature relationship is not about a female being a mother-caretaker to the male in the relationship.

This doesn't sound like a relationship of adults in which you are attempting to foster one another healthily, respectfully, and mutually in all ways. This is all about you taking care of him and there's little evidence that he does this for you in all ways, too.

You are not supposed to take care of all his needs when he goes out to play. He's supposed to be a man and be able to accept and carry out responsibilities. It's not supposed to be only what HE wants and what HE needs and what HE expects. It has to be about what YOU want and what YOU need and what YOU expect, too.

It is not all about him saying "gimme, gimme, gimme" and you saying, "yes dear, whatever you like." It isn't about you delaying all of your personal gratification for his more important need or desire for instant gratification.

Please think about things very carefully, sweetie. And pay attention to all the alarms going off in your head and your heart, despite your strong feelings for him. When there are alarms going off in you and you are fighting with yourself to believe in him and trust him and it's all about love only for him, there's something that has to be considered carefully. Adult relationships aren't all about love: pragmatism is a vital part. This, right now, there's little indication here that the pragmatic side of your relationship is functioning.

Listen to the alarms going off, sweetie. They are only going to get more numerous and louder. Please don't turn a deaf ear to them: they are ringing for a reason.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
It was my idea to get the one checking account. Yep, bad idea.

Well, checking accounts can be closed, and new ones opened.

Perhaps you should open one of your own in addition to your joint account, then both contribute equally to the joint account and use it to pay household bills and such. The money in the other account (on which you're the only signer, at least initially) can be yours to use, or save, as you wish.

I seriously don't know what to do. I'm thinking of giving him the ring back. I've actually been thinking that and it breaks my heart. I love him and I know he loves me but I certainly don't want to be dealing with this crap in 5, 10, 15 years.

I don't know that you're ready to take the step of giving the ring back, but you might want to think about postponing the "I-Do" date if it's been set (and is close). Your comment about not wanting to be "dealing with this crap in 5, 10, 15 years" is a wise one. If you can't reach some compromises you both can be happy with now, you're better off not taking that "final" step. Even though you have a lot of things held jointly, it's still a heck of a lot harder to get out of a marriage than it is to end an engagement.

Waiting for his "inheritance" is horrible financial planning. Who knows how long his parents will live - hopefully many more years! What happens if one of them gets seriously ill, and their financial resources are constrained by hospital bills and other healthcare issues? It's their money after all, not his, regardless what their intentions are about passing it along in the future. His total disinterest in and inattention to his present-day finances - and yours - are big red flags, IMHO.

In fact, if his folks are well-off, why are YOU paying his income tax and other debts? Why can't he go to them and ask for a loan (against his future inheritance)?

It is possible to comingle finances, but you really do both have to be on the same page to do so successfully. DH and I are cosigners on our various accounts, but his checking account is still his, and mine is mine. I was divorced from my first husband for more than a decade before we met, and well used to handling my own money and reluctant to give it up. Fortunately, so was he. The rest of the assets and debts are jointly held, and it's a mix of money that works for us.

You've got to figure out what will work for you, short and long term. Obviously, you're obviously not there yet. Starting to talk seriously and calmly about it - without tears, anger or raised voices, and with an eye toward your future together - is critical. Laying it out on a spreadsheet and emailing it to him was a good idea. How he responds to it will tell you a lot.

Good luck! I know you'll let us know how it goes.

Cori
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 8
Greetings, crzyindebt, you are in the midst of the dread realization that two people may not always aim for (and end up in) the same place, let alone the same general direction, no matter how much they love each other. Your fiance appears to have a fundamentally different attitude towards money management than you are developing. "Can this engagement be saved?" (reminds me of the "Can this marriage be saved" series in the venerable old magazine "Ladies' Home Journal.")

Here's how I see it: screaming and nagging and pushing will only exhaust you and alienate him, even if you are right. Time to look hard at what you have here. He is behaving akin to a debt at 29.99% interest - a debt that you would now balance transfer out of your portfolio. You would not rage at the credit card company; rather, you would take swift, dispassionate and surgical action to excise this debt from the ledger. I am thinking that it may take a similar calm, deliberate, unheated action towards your fiance. He does not appear to be aware (nor entirely WILLING to be aware) of the degree of divisiveness his actions (non-actions) are causing. You are realizing that responsible money management is a ticket to increased options of adult life rather than constricted options, and he is not along for this ride.

That's not to say that he NEVER WILL BE, but at the present time, he is not. You may need to be thinking very hard about what it means to be sharing financial blood vessels with someone who behaves in a way that bleeds the both of you. Read posts on the Credit Cards board by JBeauty, patzer, joelcorley, for example - posters whose relationships were ultimately derailed by their partner's fiscal irresponsibility. You could read other posts by those whose partners WOKE UP (rah1420) but the real key here is that those formerly irresponsible partners ON THEIR OWN came to THEIR OWN realization that their customary ways were destructive to their futures. This says that your fiance would need to arrive at such a realization independently of your efforts to shine the light in his face, as understandable as your desire to do so happens to be.

I am now 48 and met my fiance when I was 41. I'd had a number of less than salutary experiences with boyfriends (each of whom I'd hoped might become a fiance and more) who never were on the same page as me about the importance of a good financial foundation and good financial habits. Since I worked hard at tending my financial garden, it was dispiriting to say the least to realize that these guys were willing to live among financial weeds. I wanted more and would not settle for less and DID NOT settle for less. It was not worth it to fight about money - it was ultimately easier to say a neutral goodbye once I realized that we'd end up in endless arguments otherwise; a lose-lose situation. When I finally met my fiance, he too was in a financial mess but the crucial difference is that HE WAS WILLING TO RESPECT WHAT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME and of his own volition began to modify his untidy financial behavior. We did not have to end up in power struggles. I did not have to bail him out. He was willing to listen to my ideas about good money habits and he made independent changes in his behavior that drove down his debt and resulted in a complete cleanup of his credit scores. Now he has decent and growing retirement savings as well as a drastically dropping debt load at a very low interest rate for the life of the loan. He is not yet on task with budgeting but as we discuss it ever more, he has consciously reduced his monthly spending to fatten his repayment snowball and to allow us to achieve certain goals by certain timelines.

Note, though, that he is still MY FIANCE. We will marry in the future. But I will be willing to do so only when the last of his former financial junkheap has been excavated and laid to rest. If we were 20 years younger and there were children to be concerned with, I would have stood my ground and made a crystal clear, no-exceptions statement (calmly) to the effect that there were certain financial states that simply had to be first priority (a positive net worth, a budget we both agreed on, a plan for continuing to fund retirement accounts, a consensus on how to set priorities for spending goals and savings goals, a joint agreement on the big pillars of fiscal behavior and action) as well as had to be on the way to being achieved by a definite timeframe. Since we met older, and since I was no longer willing at this point in my life to carry anyone's @$$ who could carry their own, I was not so staunch on a given timeline as much as that I needed to be sure of the trend in the right direction. After 7 years, I am sure. But there simply is no way that I would have remained committed to someone who would have caused my own suffocation.

Perhaps you may indeed need to be thinking of sitting this out awhile, whether you give back the ring or not. Since apoplexy is not going to work, it will pay off more to be thinking about what are the goals that you wish to set for yourself in the next little while. He will then be on his own, face-to-face with his own realizations and goals, should he choose to look more closely at them. Will he ever be back on the same page with you? It is too soon to say. Is it a sorrow if not? Of course - but nowhere NEAR the sorrow of staying tied to someone who has the potential to destroy you. If you read posts by JBeauty, you will see that she had to undergo some very tough decisions - but was already at a point where she was so distraught over the financial gap between her former fiance and herself that she sought counseling because it was sinking her. Now she writes with increasing peace and contentment. She is not now engaged, so there was a huge upheaval in her original life plans, but who she WAS engaged to was already causing her turmoil and chaos. The amazing thing is that once you let go of trying to make somebody be different than he is, you get back a sense of sanity that allows you the possibility of finding someone (new, if need be) who is a better fit and who supports your goals and combines forces with you to bring them about. My fiance confers a sense of sanity on the life we are building together because we are pulling in the same direction and I can trust that. It may be that this sense of sanity would be the first thing to seek, starting today, and can be approached from the perspective of neutrality. Change for yourself what you can, politely decline to change for someone else what you don't think you ought to, take a stand for yourself that does not have to be an ultimatum nor a line in the stand (that is, consider taking a BREAK) and see how you feel when the din dies down.

xraymd
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
this says alot. There are posts on the CC board about someone who was going through these exact same issues. (I forget her name......*sigh*)



IIRC jbeauty is the poster you're thinking of.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I have to say that from my experiences and from what I've read on here for the last 6 years, I will never again comingle finances with anyone, ever. I only know one couple, IRL, that is totally on the same page financially, and they have some stuff mingled but each also have some of their own things - retirement accounts, a cc, etc



DH and I are happily married. We have a lot of joint accounts, but we also have some accounts that are individual accounts.




Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
DH and I are happily married. We have a lot of joint accounts, but we also have some accounts that are individual accounts.

I've often considered doing the "yours, mine and ours" thing, where there's a shared household account and then each has own separate, but I think that's as mingled as I'll get.

I've just been alone far too long, after supporting a couple of different men, and going into debt for them.

Ishtar
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I've often considered doing the "yours, mine and ours" thing, where there's a shared household account and then each has own separate, but I think that's as mingled as I'll get.

In the "yours, mine and ours strategy," if you actually get married, I think it's important to have both people's names on accounts. If something happens to one of you, you want the other to be able to access the accounts without having to wait for the legal ducks to be in order.

That said, however, you have to have an agreement, or complete trust, that your accounts are really your own, and separate from joint financial matters unless you decide to involve them. As I said, DH and I are signers on all our accounts. However, I'd never even consider accessing or taking money from his accounts without his express knowledge and approval, nor he mine. We're fortunate to have trust and the same financial goals to guide us.

Shared financial respect is not automatic, and it can take time to get there. Not all couples get there, but it is certainly a goal worth working toward.

Cori
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Yesterday he went to the store that I work at, but a different location. They would have hired him on the spot, but the days weren't convenient enough for him. He is in a band, and they interfere with his practice time.

I have known several musicians and they all had regular jobs. One guy was the assistant manager of the comapany. He managed to balance work, family, and being a musician. He found the time to practice, perform, book gigs, write and record songs while still taking care of his family.

Alan

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
NotMaggie
NotMaggie is already one of your Favorite Fools

Wow... wish we could have lunch a couple of times a month...

You are one well put together young lady...

Wow.

That is all.
BB
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
:Sigh:

Last night was the longest nights ever.

I saw my therapist last night. She really is great. I cried, I yelled, I laughed, I had a million emotions going on.

She told me the same thing you guys have been.

I called a girlfriend to set something up. I'm probably leaving soon. I'm going to leave for a few days, or until I can figure out what to do and clear my mind.

I'm not wearing my ring today.

He slept on the couch last night.

I cried all night.


I told him I was leaving. He brushed it off (he doesn't believe me).

He choose to sleep on the couch as I cried myself to sleep. This morning I woke up next to him. I rolled over and fell back asleep, but was later awoken to him coming in to say "Bye" to me. He put his arms around me and just stared at me as if to say "I love you...."

I was half asleep, but I just sat there like a whimpering puppy dog.

I love him, but this is ruining my life.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I'm not wearing my ring today.

I love him, but this is ruining my life.
CID
=========================================
One day at a time, one step at a time.

You have made a good start. Head up, look straight ahead, and SMILE! You will make it.

Good luck and sincere best wishes.

BB.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
unfortunately, sometimes the best things in life can also be the worst things in life.

Think of hardee's burgers - horribly, disgustingly bad for you, but people buy them up by the bucketful because the fat makes them taste awesome!

You love him, but he seems to not be the type of person you thought, and it's hurting you.

Take some time to determine what you can and can NOT live with, settle for, and base your standards off of that. It's a life-saver.

*HUG* I know it's hard, and we'll be here to help you out when you need it.

Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
Yes it's hard, you love him, but this is ruining your life. Rest assured that you are doing the right thing even though it feels like absolute hell right now. It will get better: please keep in touch with your therapist as needed and the board to keep you on track.

I'll tell you what finally enabled me to leave my first long-time and most abusive ex: I was in and out of therapy for some time, but finally got an absolutely incredible therapist who was smarter than I was and totally on the ball. She didn't let a thing slip. I was also in one of the most dangerous and precarious mental periods of my life as I was (belatedly admittedly) actively suicidal, delusional, and very unstable, though on the surface (to people who aren't familiar), I seemed absolutely normal and content. It was very deliberate on my part.

My therapist was able to get me to voluntarily move out of the home I shared with my ex (to a friend's small apartment) so that I can mentally stabilize a bit (the other option was she was going to have me hospitalized). It worked, I was more stable, and then she worked with me about the actual steps and planning to break up with him, meaning specific words, a venue and place where I'd feel relatively safe or at least not so at risk/in danger, and to try and anticipate his responses and actions, both verbal and physical. All in all, it turned out shockingly well. He was taken aback as he couldn't actually dream of me actually want to break up, but then he resigned himself to it. Since I had already moved out some of my most immediate and pressing things when I moved into my friend's place, the rest of my stuff mostly stayed there (luckily for me, no problem with that). When I needed to, I was free to return and pick up things and knew his schedule well enough to avoid him.

By that stage, there was a key thing: I don't think I really "loved" him truly any more, but I certainly "needed" him in some way. I controlled the purse strings, at least on paper, but I was precariously dependent upon him mentally and emotionally. My therapist needed to establish some sort of relative mental stability and safety for me before I could make a final break. It was hard for me to know what I needed or what I felt emotionally as my entire life at this point seemed to revolve around him completely, even though he hadn't met any of my emotional, mental, or obviously financial needs for years at that point. I was fundamentally neglected in this relationship: I didn't even care about myself in lieu of him.

Just remember and ask yourself, who is/will be taking care of you when you spend all your time, energy, and focus on someone who won't take care of himself? Start with yourself, first and foremost, and expand from there. Otherwise, it is an eternally codependent relationship.

You're on the right track, crzyindebt, even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

Stay strong and solid and remember that the sun will come out, tomorrow.

*hugs*
Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
NotMaggie
NotMaggie is already one of your Favorite Fools

Wow... wish we could have lunch a couple of times a month...

You are one well put together young lady...

Wow.

That is all.
BB


Hehehe, I happen to love lunch, dinner, etc., and would love the opportunity some day. I am rather cynical about being "well put together" or being "young" anymore, but I would say that hindsight is 20/20. All things said, life is amazingly wonderful in all the small as well as the big ways. I'm glad I've gotten rid of the draining influences in my life finally and just beginning to make my own way at this point.

BTW, the sun is shining beautifully right now through my windows. *grins*

Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
There are posts on the CC board about someone who was going through these exact same issues.

I assume you mean me, JBeauty. It is a very long thread, where almost every poster told me to leave, which in my case was the right choice. My favorite of all the posts was Smurfette's

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=21906998&sort=threaded

which I printed and carried with me for strength. I also repeated the mantra "You Can't Change Him" a few hundred times.

Every situation is unique. It is easy to over-simplify. I would not presume to say that what was right for me would be right for CID. In fact, I would support trying everything possible to save a relationship where two people love each other. But in the end, some times the answer is that a problem can't be solved.

If CID is still at the point where she is looking for ways to save her relationship, I recommend
- stepping back from confrontational arguments and trying to restore some of the affection. From that point, ASK and LISTEN first, to learn your partners money attitudes and goals. Then share yours.
- try to agree on a common set of goals you both want for the future
- couples counseling
- Getting Out Of Debt's chapter on couples. Especially the exercise where you sit facing each other looking eye-to-eye and one person says things about money and the other person just says "Thank you" and doesn't comment for at least 24 hours.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
JBeauty-
I just read about half of the messages. I wanted to read all of them, but I got the drift.

If CID is still at the point where she is looking for ways to save her relationship, I recommend

I want to save the relationship.

I am going to take these steps that you listed and take them seriously.

The one thing, however, about the couples counseling is that he refuses to go. I go to a therapist, and I can see what he envisions: Two woman picking on him. And attacking him. I attack, alot. I nag, alot. I guess he is just "numb to the bitching". And those are exact words.

I will not continue with my wedding plans until this gets better and he knows this.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
Greetings JBeauty,

I wish I had gotten coherent advice like Smurfette's years ago, but it's a fabulous summary. Following the entire thread and notably her advice, I'm glad you were able to do what is admittedly in my opinion the only sane and healthy thing to do: leave. Also impressed that somebody mentioned Melodie Beatty's (sp?) book, Codependent No More in that list; there's no doubt in my mind that I was a codependent for years and only beginning to get out of it now.

Wondering if we should start an ex-partners of financial nightmares forum. *grins*

CID, no one can ultimately tell you what is right or wrong to do and you have to follow your own mind and heart. It's not easy by any means and either way there's little doubt in my mind that it is going to be rough going no matter what. I hope that you will survive mentally and fiscally intact, no matter what. It's not easy.

Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
I've been lurking in the corner, listening to what everyone else was saying, Now I want to throw my 2 cents in.

I think that you know what you need to do, but in your heart you are still not sure.

You say I want to save the relationship and that you are going to take the necessary steps to do so. I have two questions for you: (1)Why do you want to save the relationship? and (2)Is he also willing to take the necessary steps to save the relationship?

He's been cleaning and doing things when I ask him (when I'm working) and leaves me lovely and cute notes all the time. I laugh when I read them and melt when he comes home.

He makes you feel good, which is important. But in the long run, do you share the same values? Will he still be able to make you feel good in twenty years? And the financial issues are a huge hurdle. I don't see how the two of you can survive in a long-term relationship when you are so far apart on this.


I wish you well. You've got a lot to deal with.

Peg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Kelly,
How are you doing? I read some of your posts and don't know what other advice I can add other than a lot of the good advice that has been mentioned on the board. But I agree, don't rush into any wedding plans till things get better. You shouldn't have to shoulder all the financial responsiblity in this relationship. My fiance Kevin and I have separate checking accts, I pay the utilities, he pays the house payment, I pay the house insurance and taxes, and we split the cable down the middle, along with groceries. That's what works for us. Maybe not what work well for everyone but it does for us ok.
Anyway, just wanted to drop a note and let you know I'm thinking of you. (been away from the computer a few days, have had so much going on)
And gulp, nope, didn't stop smoking yet, so I've been hiding from the stop smoking board till I can get myself to quit.
Anyway, I'd suggest maybe put the wedding plans on hold till financially he is more supportive. You're going wear yourself out girl, from working so much and you need some "Kelly" time as well!
Hugs,
Allison
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
It's been almost a month and the husband has not been in contact with her. Where do jerks like this come from?

JBeauty said crzyindebt was struggling so I came over to read the thread. I fight depression a bit myself... the last time I quit posting on the boards for a month or so. I didn't know this board existed!

I have so much sympathy for your nanny and I totally appreciate this comment you made. It reminds me of a book I read awhile back and the author (Marianne) described a conversation she had with her therapist:

Marianne: Lots of women have trouble finding decent men.
Therapist: I hear that a lot. Do you know what we normally find when we look a bit closer?
Marianne: That all men are awful?
Therapist: That the women have contempt for men in general.

The author goes on to say that the phrase "contempt for men" echoed in her head for years afterwards. It has echoed in my head for months, years now, since I read that book. Do I have contempt for men? Probably. How many times do you have to get burned before you lump them all together? Once wasn't enough for me. By the time I was falling apart at the seams from my second serious relationship I had started to catch on that maybe it wasn't all their fault. The voice in my head says: "Holy crap, you mean I might have some responsibilty?! No way!" <sigh>

If they were jerks all the time we wouldn't be with them in the first place. They're just nice enough so you don't throw them out on their sorry butts way way sooner. That said, recognizing what I do and do not have control over has made a huge difference in my perception of this sort of thing. I do not have control over what they do or say. I do have control over my reaction to what they do and say. I can control my swooning reaction to their timed flattery and sweetness. I can smile, look them in the eye, and say "bullsh*t", "oh yeah? show me!", or "nice try buster" as the situation warrants.

Men are not evil - We all have the capability to be jerks. However, I am not at anyone's mercy. We have the right, and the responsiblity, to stand up and take care of ourselves first!

Cheers
Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Even when I get married in the future, I WILL keep my own account - for my own sanity!

Cheers to that! I cringe everytime someone on the budgeting board talks about unity in marriage and finances and sharing everything. I agree that a proportional split of the expenses, and an equal amount of discretionary spending money are smart moves. However I will not be sharing checking accounts with anyone, ever.

Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
He told me that although I worry about money all the time he doesn't and it's because he knows he will be getting a large inheritance. He's also counting on getting some money from our wedding.

Wow! How naieve! (((((((((CID)))))))))))) This is unrealistic at best, and stupid/selfish at worst. Not to mention how many assumptions he's tossed in there. I don't care what he thinks he knows about his parent's fiances, so rarely are those impressions accurate. What if one of them gets sick and uses the money to live off of? What if they decide to travel? It's THEIR money. Not his.

CID, forgive my bluntness. If you weren't engaged, and you went on a date with a total cutie who explained he held the above belief, what would you do? I venture to guess you would run for the hills.

I encourage you to work towards separating your fiances now, so that you are free to make a positive decision that will impact the rest of your life.

Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
The one thing, however, about the couples counseling is that he refuses to go. I go to a therapist, and I can see what he envisions: Two woman picking on him. And attacking him. I attack, alot. I nag, alot. I guess he is just "numb to the bitching". And those are exact words.

In order for couples counseling to work, you need to see someone new to both of you. It's fine for you to take him to one of your sessions (assuming he was willing) but that is not the same as couple's counseling. Your current counselor is already partial to you, regardless of professional distance. They might be able to give you a referral, but that's the extent they should take it.

If it seems worth the effort, suggest it in that manner. Or give him some power and let him call around and pick the therapist.

Hugs,
Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I wish I had gotten coherent advice like Smurfette's years ago, but it's a fabulous summary. Also impressed that somebody mentioned Melodie Beatty's (sp?) book, Codependent No More in that list; there's no doubt in my mind that I was a codependent for years and only beginning to get out of it now.

Thanks for the compliment. I was shaking when I wrote that post. I stayed late at work and took a cab home, because replying simply couldn't wait. I saw myself in her and I saw myself in your post in this thread about your multiple clueless ex's. It's a small world, us codependents have to stick together. :)

Have you read Melody Beattie's book, Playing It By Heart? I highly recommend it, although it's not an "empty stomach" kind of book. Wait until you feel stable. It's a whole other side of Melody that you don't see in Codependent No More and Beyond Codependency. It's eye opening. I also read Language of Letting Go pretty much everyday. It's been a few years before I had my big, "Ah HA!" moment, and it's still startling to me how a few well crafted words can hit home and rock my whole perspective of whatever is going on in my life.

Smurfette
*one huge Beattie fan*
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Allison,

Don't hide. No one over at QS will be upset with you.

Rebecca
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
I guess he is just "numb to the bitching". And those are exact words.

I understand that completely. Nobody likes to be nagged. If he wants to change, he will. Perhaps this will be the impetus he needs. If he still does not change of his own free will, you need to move on without him. It will be in HIS time when HE is ready.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Even when I get married in the future, I WILL keep my own account - for my own sanity!

Cheers to that! I cringe everytime someone on the budgeting board talks about unity in marriage and finances and sharing everything. I agree that a proportional split of the expenses, and an equal amount of discretionary spending money are smart moves. However I will not be sharing checking accounts with anyone, ever.

Smurfette

*********************************************************************

Smurfette,

If I could I would rec your post over and over again!! My ex husband and I for a while had a joint checking acct (he was an alcoholic) and
would take checks off the back and spend on beer, cigarettes, whatever
and would really screw up the checking acct for me. I got wise to that and closed it, and had us both have SEPARATE checking accts. Even though my fiance Kevin is not at all like that, we still have SEPARATE checking accts and will continue to have that even when we do get married. If my checking acct does get screwed up (but I'm very careful with it) but I'm saying if it does get screwed up, then I have no one to blame but myself! For my own peace of mine, we keep our checking separate and that works well for both of us!! :)
Allison
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Rebecca,

Thank you, YOU ARE AWESOME!! :)

Allison
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
My ex husband and I for a while had a joint checking acct (he was an alcoholic) and would take checks off the back and spend on beer, cigarettes, whatever...

BTDT. That's probably why we think alike!

There is trust and faith... and then there is stupidity and naivety. Some mistakes I refuse to repeat.

Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
Hi all,
Well, this board has certainly picked up since the first time I signed on.

I have chronic, long-term, intractable depression. It is well-controlled with what research shows is the best treatment: medication and talk therapy.

I also throw in a healthy dose of Al-Anon -- not for alcoholics and addicts, but for those who love them. And that means pretty much any kind of addict, in my book. My favorite slogan is "Work the program, not the problem". I have grown up in Al-Anon.

One more thing, CID, a slogan that has helped me tremendously:
KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOURSELF.
You didn't make him this way, you can't change him. "Telling people how we feel" and "setting boundaries" are, in my opinion, transparent efforts to get "them" to change. Endless dissection of just how "bad" he is, and in what ways, are subtler forms of this: the unspoken message is if I could understand what's wrong with him, THEN I could change him. Of course we should talk about our feelings, but rarely to the person we are having them ABOUT.

We did, however, makes *ourselves* this way -- to choose a man like this, to stay for however long, to hurt and doubt ourselves over and over and over. So, THAT we can change.

Well, all this helped me through an absolute nightmare of abuse and violence. I was finally able to let go of it by turning my spotlight on myself.

Good luck. Keep the focus on yourself, one day at a time.

BklynBorn
[Another BB]
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I have so much sympathy for your nanny and I totally appreciate this comment you made. It reminds me of a book I read awhile back and the author (Marianne) described a conversation she had with her therapist:

Marianne: Lots of women have trouble finding decent men.
Therapist: I hear that a lot. Do you know what we normally find when we look a bit closer?
Marianne: That all men are awful?
Therapist: That the women have contempt for men in general.

...

Men are not evil - We all have the capability to be jerks. However, I am not at anyone's mercy. We have the right, and the responsiblity, to stand up and take care of ourselves first!



Hello Smurfette,

I just want to thank you much for presenting this topic so honestly and coherently. Though understandable, I'm uncomfortable with a lot of discussions that have a habit of broadly brushing perps in general, and men in particular.

Men aren't always our potential abusers and enemies; some men can be our friends and allies as well.

Women aren't always our potential friends and allies; women can be our potential abusers and enemies as well.

I've trusted the wrong people for the wrong reason, losing the chance to foster healthy bonds with others, often because I belatedly realized I was being actively manipulated or courted by my own previously established, biases, suspicions, expectations, and needs. Sometimes I was just simply innocently mistaken, but repeated occurrences do indicate the potential that much of what is/was happening was based on some incorrect or unsafe modalities of my own.

For many of us who have been abused, I am not discounting how significantly imprinted impressions and demographics can be on our instincts and impulses, but long-term and absolute exclusions will harm us, too. In my female support group, we touched on issues regarding hostility, suspicion, and fear of men. It is real and valid and important, but they/we also hoped to create both a mental and intellectual awareness that not all men are out to harm us. We also touched on other demographics (race, language, socioeconomic class, age, hair, other social stereotypes) honestly, too.

Thank you Smurfette,
Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I've trusted the wrong people for the wrong reason, losing the chance to foster healthy bonds with others, often because I belatedly realized I was being actively manipulated or courted by my own previously established, biases, suspicions, expectations, and needs.

You're not alone! I've done all the same things myself. It's a hard lesson to learn. I think the relevant saying is,

Don't get into a bad place through PIP:
* Pride
* Impatience
* Projection

Gratefully recovering,
Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
You're not alone! I've done all the same things myself. It's a hard lesson to learn. I think the relevant saying is,

Don't get into a bad place through PIP:
* Pride
* Impatience
* Projection

Gratefully recovering,
Smurfette


Heh, which brings in the general thought, "divide and conquer." Abusers often know how to mentally isolate us from those that could actually help and protect us. As a child, my parents were pretty ethnophobic: race and class, among other issues, they said couldn't be trusted. In my case, I eventually rebelled against all that fervently by going the opposite way, but that's wasn't smart, either. Blanket discrimination is never a smart thing. When I had problems with either men or women or orientation, it also locked me out of (and into) situations, relationships, or people that really didn't look out for my best interest.

The key, for me, I was less afraid (if not less threatened) of some demographics and not others. It's taken me a long time to realize some people aren't so bad/frightening, e.g., heterosexuals, men, or Asians, hairy people, as examples. I'm now flipping to the other extreme in the overcompensation category, but I'm trusting myself to eventually find a healthy balance, like on a see saw. I'll find my center of gravity with all things.

Meg
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 6
Hmmm...I see you are in Chicago. His initials aren't "BB" by any chance, are they? I used to live in the area, and I also had a dead-beat, wanna be rock-star BF. He also had a nasty drug problem it turned out, so I hope he isn't the same person!

I see the advice here, and I wish I would have followed it with Mr. BB. Instead, I stuck around, toting him around in my car, paying for everything, going to a junior college (he had dropped out), working at a bakery. I was willing to drop everything for him.

One night, at a mutual friend's house, I met him there. He acted very strange, then walked out without saying "goodbye" - with another mutual friend of ours. See, she had more money than me, and he chose that over me.

Don't be like me: make your decisions. Don't let them be made for you, because they won't be made in your favor.

Best wishes and good thoughts are coming your way-Wednesday
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
His initials aren't "BB" by any chance, are they?
Wednesday
=========================================
Hey, leave me out of it!... The only time I've been 'to' Chicago is when connecting thru O'Hare, and the last time I did that was moons and moons ago...

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
Hmmm...I see you are in Chicago. His initials aren't "BB" by any chance, are they? I used to live in the area, and I also had a dead-beat, wanna be rock-star BF. He also had a nasty drug problem it turned out, so I hope he isn't the same person!

Wednesday-
I'm glad to say that his initials aren't BB. It's been running in my head the past few days though to think of people that have the initials BB. Thank goodness there are none....
Thanks for your good thoughts.

Things are certainly improving. He got a very nice promotion to management and salary will be compensated based on review. I've learned to just step back and think before I freak and to pick and chose my battles. Last night I had a freaking breakdown because he didn't wait for me to eat. He would have if I wasn't late....I completely lost it and flipped, and he left to go do his errands. I looked around the house to see that he hung my planters and fixed my plant boxes (without me asking), stained the cabinets, vacummed, took care of kitties and bunny, and cooked me dinner. And I get home and flip because he didn't wait for me when I was the one that was late. Hello?!?!?! Who's problem is it? Mine.

I've realized I'm not perfect either.


Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
That sounds wonderful!! Sounds like he is really making an effort to contribute more now since he'll be bringing in more money and can help more towards the debt paydown. Maybe now you can cut down to 1 full time job and maybe a part time job instead of 3 jobs since he will be making more money!! Would really make your life easier!

You are so much like me!! I freak out when I come home and the house is a mess, nothing is done, etc. etc. I also need to step back and look for the good things that Kevin and Megan do and not rant over every little thing. Kevin mowed yesterday, helped around the house, Megan finally cleaned her room (she is a messy child!!) They both helped with yardwork and housecleaning. I also need to learn to be more patient. I guess it's because I am an overachiever, a perfectionist and place such high demands on myself, that I also expect it from others. So I need to step back too and not expect perfection from everyone around me. It's hard!! :)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Wow - I've been off the boards for several days, and I just read this thread. I'd like to re-emphasize a couple of things that really jumped out at me.

1. Someone mentioned getting a different counselor for JOINT counseling, as your counselor is already partial to you. This could be the crucial step to getting him to agree to it. If he's worried about two women "nagging him", then search for a male counselor.

2. I think you mentioned his name was on the house? OUCH! This could get messy. You might want to talk with a lawyer about how you can handle this. You may have to refinance under your name only, or ask him nicely to sign a quit-claim so that the whole thing ends up under YOUR name only.

You need to try to get him to cooperate with you on doing these things, NOW, or you may get burned in the future. Even if he moves out of the house which you are paying for, if his name is on the mortgage, legally he "owns" half the equity. Even if YOU paid every penny!

Protect yourself, and RUN. If he REALLY loves you, he WILL change, and then he can come back. But everyone else on this thread agrees that he and you apparently don't have the same goals/priorities. This is a HUGE thing when you are talking about marriage.

Before my husband and I got married, we had to see our preacher for some pre-marriage discussion. One of the things he illustrated for us is two people walking in the "same" direction. If there is a 5 degree difference in their direction now, they may be pretty close together, but think how far apart they will be if they continue walking for 20 years!!! You need to be walking PARALLEL to your spouse, so you will be right next to each other when you are old and gray.

It sounds like you and this guy are walking about 90 degrees apart!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{crazyindebt}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You don't need this in your life.

Julie
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
2. I think you mentioned his name was on the house? OUCH! This could get messy. You might want to talk with a lawyer about how you can handle this. You may have to refinance under your name only, or ask him nicely to sign a quit-claim so that the whole thing ends up under YOUR name only.

You need to try to get him to cooperate with you on doing these things, NOW, or you may get burned in the future. Even if he moves out of the house which you are paying for, if his name is on the mortgage, legally he "owns" half the equity. Even if YOU paid every penny!


We bought the condo together for a reason. First, I didn't want to move in and what if something happened? I would have been paying rent and my hard earned dollars thrown out the window.

We wanted each other to own half and half.

Gosh, I must really make him sound like a jerk huh? I'm starting to regret posting so much personal information. I wish I kept my postings to what I had meant, for debt and that's it.

We all have our squibbles. There are times when I wish he would just walk out. But most of the time, I'm happy and grateful he's in my life. We are two completely different people. I'm uptight and he's laid back. I'm worried financially, he could care less. Some people have different priorities. When we discussed this, he told me that he doesn't care about finances because he isn't GOOD at them. Well, that's a pretty darn good reason to me. Thankfully, I'm somewhat good at them and always willing to learn. There are things he's good at that I'm horrible at & I don't care about these things. We have a pretty good balance.

A lot of the feedback I'm getting seems that "I'm with a total jerk" and I "need to RUN".

What happened with working things out? That's my number one focus. I need to work with him...I tend to work against him. I got more results when I work with him, like a team.

I don't know...I suppose I took a long hard look at not only him, but MYSELF. I am impatient. I am depressed. I go off the deep end sometimes. I can't pin everything on him, or blame him for everything.

Just another rant.

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
hey..don't worry about posting personal info here. Each of us has different opinions.

I, for one, think you are doing what is best for YOU. If he's good for you, awesome!!! If he's bad at finances, so be it. My mom handles all of the finances for their household, and has since as far back as I can remember.

I made the same "mistake" about having my name on a loan, and giving half to my roommate (I was going to work for a year in a different state). I realized, that in the end, I AM IN CHARGE because I have the risk and responsibility for making sure that loan is taken care of.

So, as advice goes, take what works for you and find a way to work it into your life; what doesn't work, say "thanks", and then promptly stick it in your mental trash can and delete appropriately.

Heather
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
We bought the condo together for a reason. First, I didn't want to move in and what if something happened? I would have been paying rent and my hard earned dollars thrown out the window.

We wanted each other to own half and half.

Gosh, I must really make him sound like a jerk huh? I'm starting to regret posting so much personal information. I wish I kept my postings to what I had meant, for debt and that's it.

We all have our squibbles. There are times when I wish he would just walk out. But most of the time, I'm happy and grateful he's in my life. We are two completely different people. I'm uptight and he's laid back. I'm worried financially, he could care less. Some people have different priorities. When we discussed this, he told me that he doesn't care about finances because he isn't GOOD at them. Well, that's a pretty darn good reason to me. Thankfully, I'm somewhat good at them and always willing to learn. There are things he's good at that I'm horrible at & I don't care about these things. We have a pretty good balance.

A lot of the feedback I'm getting seems that "I'm with a total jerk" and I "need to RUN".

What happened with working things out? That's my number one focus. I need to work with him...I tend to work against him. I got more results when I work with him, like a team.


I don't know you "personally", and of course I don't know him, either. But you have been very clear that he DOESN'T want to make the needed effort to work things out, as he is not willing to go to a counselor with you. At least at this point. Maybe if you suggest a new counselor for you as a couple, different from your current counselor, he'd be willing. I don't know. If he's STILL not willing to go to a different, male counselor, then I'm leaning toward the "RUN AWAY" camp.

Right now, I'm in the "disentangle yourself, protect yourself, and see what happens" camp. The financial tangle you are in is putting undue stress on you and making it hard for you to analyze the situation objectively. Heck, since you already own stuff together, and apparently are sleeping together (just guessing here), why don't you go ahead and get married? As in tomorrow? Obviously, the reason is because you are having MAJOR DOUBTS about your possible future together, based on his irresponsible behavior. LISTEN TO YOURSELF, not to us.

(Well, listen to us, too, about the new male counselor, and financial stuff, of course... )

What I'm trying to say about what *I* see is that you have placed yourself on a path to "I'm going to marry this guy" by moving in with him and sharing the condo on paper, too. You have made serious legal financial bonds. Getting out of that situation could be stickier than getting an amiable divorce!!! So you are already "committed" to a large degree by implied intent.

I'd personally like to see if you could light a fire under his butt by bringing up refinancing the condo in your name only, and splitting assets... How quickly do you think he'd go to a counselor with you if he knew it was THAT SERIOUS???

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{crazyindebt}}}}}}}}}}}}

Julie
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Julie,

The sort of "entanglement" and refinancing you are talking about is hard...you have to get the permission of both parties to refinance and CHANGE THE DEED. You can refi in one name only, but alot of the paperwork would require both. Only way to legally "get out" is to buy out the other.

Been there, done that, never going to write the book,
heather
out of this particular discusson..it's gone on waaaay to long
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
There are things he's good at that I'm horrible at & I don't care about these things. We have a pretty good balance.
---------------

My husband and I are like that, too. He could care less about finances, but I *like* playing with numbers. Bu he is much better than me at other things. For starters, he's a lot more stable and able to deal with things that overwhelm me. (And I half-joke that the garbage would never make it to the curb if left up to me... but OTOH, he would run out of clean clothes if it weren't for me.)

That's why I said that you need to take a look at everything that is your DH and make a decision that you love him, faults and all. No one is perfect. But I do feel like it's *really* important to be able to say, "I knew that when I married you, and I chose to marry you anyway."

Rebecca
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I'd personally like to see if you could light a fire under his butt by bringing up refinancing the condo in your name only, and splitting assets... How quickly do you think he'd go to a counselor with you if he knew it was THAT SERIOUS???

------------------------------------------

This so needed to be repeated. Well said Julie!

Feelings aren't facts, they do change, and we don't have to act on every single one. But that does NOT equate to ignoring warning signs, our gut instinct, or letting go of our standards. A marriage is a partnership!!!! Period. End of story. 2 in 1. He's refusing to participate, so you're going to give him a free ride?! Does this make sense? Yes, I'm being tough on him (and you). Couple's counseling should be mandatory before any couple gets married - not just you. It should be a huge clue about how ready he is for marriage by the fact that he's refusing to do this!

Most importantly, don't regret posting your situation. Admit that the advice you're getting is not what you wanted to hear. Admit that following our advice might be be hard work. You have to make this decision for yourself, but don't regret asking for help because the help you got wasn't what you expected.

Very sorry if this seems harsh. I've been where you are. Running might not be the right solution for you, but taking care of yourself first is ALWAYS the way to go. That means you have to protect yourself and your interests.

Hugs,
Smurfette
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
Can we kill this thread, please?

So, because he won't go to couple's counseling makes him a bad partner. Because he has his flaws makes him a bad fiance. Because he doesn't always help around the house makes him a horrible man.

Well, hell, I might as well go crawl in a hole then and never come out.

I'm young, but in my experience, everyone has their problems and flaws. None of us are perfect. Yes, I have my good times with him and my bad. No relationship is ever what we want it to be. To me, having a relationship is not only something spetacular, but it can also be a life long learning process. There are ups and downs. We just so happened to be having a "down" time which is going to happen in any relationship. I happened to post it because I thought it was the end of the world. It's not, & we got through it together.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Can we kill this thread, please? ...

We just so happened to be having a "down" time which is going to happen in any relationship. I happened to post it because I thought it was the end of the world. It's not, & we got through it together.


I'll drop it, but not before I say congratulations for working through the issues that had you feeling so frustrated! Keep focused on the reality that we've all got good points and bad, and use your love for each other to work together on making your relationship the best it can be.

Glad you got through it emotionally intact and are back on track!

;-)
Cori
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
also DO check out the credit card list, call the card service reps for reduced interest, etc etc.

unless you've done that!

joycets
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
IF he will let you take care of the checking account, and establish what you can afford to pay for, being together can be okay. Just make sure he doesn't have access to money to spend that you don't have.

(I should follow some of this myself, but its too late at night to think that hard_.)
joycets
Print the post Back To Top