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And that probably left your mom using the assets and most certainly you are still here. So what's your point?

What assets ? My father was in the merchant marine - paid by the voyage. She got a small pension with no increase ever and eventually social security. She was 56 & he was 59.

I'm here. What's your point ?

Not remotely a concern, or we would not be giving them as much as they are getting right away, which would pay for a village of people to get a ticket home without the Red Cross.

I should have explained. My daughter was an AF dependent and the Red Cross would have been in charge of getting her home if we had waited. It was a holiday weekend and it took her husband a couple of days because they had to arrange it for him. He was coming from Oman but his permanent assignment was England which is where she was.

Clearly your knowledge of the protections a trust can offer are limited, if you think the above is the only reason to get a trust.

No, I fully understand. A friend and I have discussed them in detail. Usually we do it every summer.

For those who have retired at an age where they have young adults that could inherit a good deal of money if they suddenly died, consider the consequences of receiving that money.

I retired from full-time employment at 49. I don't see consequences, only opportunity.
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I kind of lied. I voted I want to downsize, whereas in fact DH & I have already downsized to a (1600 sf) freestanding house. Coincidentally, the neighbors on either side of us are also 60-somethings who’ve downsized, the only difference being that they own and we’re renting. There seem to be plenty of young families in the neighborhood, so it’s not age-segregated overall.

My 95-year-old dad’s in a nice assisted living place now, after being in his own house until almost age 94, so I’ve seen up close the pros and cons of both ways. I’ve concluded that old age is bad either way, so haven’t decided what to do next.
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<iMy 95-year-old dad’s in a nice assisted living place now, after being in his own house until almost age 94, so I’ve seen up close the pros and cons of both ways. I’ve concluded that old age is bad either way, so haven’t decided what to do next.

I hasten to make two observations: 1) Not all assisted living places are the same, They vary all over the place. Select wisely.
2) We choose to go to the OFH (Old Folks Home) while we are still mobile and not yet (quite) senile.

CNC
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This is a very tricky answer. I haven't picked one yet (either in your poll, or in reality).

We would love to retire someplace like where you or maloshi are retiring. But the cost of entry is too high.

So...if we stay put, we'll stay in our house as long as we can. We like the house, the area, and we have good doctors and a hospital nearby. Shopping is convenient (Costco is about 4 miles away). This presently is our default.

If we move we'll almost certainly down-size. We've talked about it, and the issues are scouting out a new place to live (i.e. good doctors, can we tolerate the climate, etc) which would require us spending probably a month there in every season. Also cost of living. We can't have our (admittedly comfortable) nest egg gobbled-up just buying a house, for example. CA could do that easily. But we are tired of the heat. I'd like Colorado (went to high school there). Most of the time it's beautiful with just a few nasty months of cold and ice.

1poorguy
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Some people have strong and very long ties to the home and I can understand not wanting to leave it with 40, 50, or more years tied to a place. I've never owned a home for more than a decade. My parents lived in the same house for about 30 years but the neighborhood was changing and it had a ton of steps which wasn't good for my mom.

I have an uncle who is living in my grandparents home (his parents) and while at times he had moved out when he was younger, he moved back in to take care of my grandmother and once she passed away, has remained there. I'm guessing it goes back 80 years.

I will definitely be looking at a one story place with low maintenance. My current house is nice but with a large pool and tons of fruit trees and a difficult shower to enter/exit (with steps) it isn't ideal. I could change all of that but I just plan to sell it shortly. Then rent for a couple of years and figure out where to retire to (maybe back to AZ or elsewhere).

My parents moved into a retirement community and loved it since there was plenty to do, there was no house or yard maintenance, etc. The only sad thing is that they were on the very young side of people living there and you had to deal with the fairly frequent deaths of nearby residents. I guess no place is perfect.

I've known a few people retired to a larger home. That usually doesn't work out in the long run unless you can afford to pay for maintenance, cleaning, etc. I think they want the space for family visits but that isn't going to happen that often.

Rich
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...I've known a few people retired to a larger home. That usually doesn't work out in the long run... I think they want the space for family visits ...

Yeah, I have friends who upsized in retirement, fantasizing that their children and grandchildren would be very frequently in residence. Never happened. Children & grandchildren had their own homes, jobs, ideas about vacations other than "visit granny," etc. And as far as family holidays, it's a helluva lot easier for mobile seniors to travel to their grown children than for grown children to drag babies and toddlers to granny's house. By the time the seniors find travel difficult, they also find hosting holiday meals and guests difficult, so their children will (reluctantly) make the trek to help with cooking & clean-up, but they'll stay in a hotel.

So: no upsizing!

YG
hypocrite (I'm finding 1600 sf a tad tight, and thinking our next place should be 2000 sf)
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This is a very tricky answer. I haven't picked one yet (either in your poll, or in reality).

We would love to retire someplace like where you or maloshi are retiring. But the cost of entry is too high.


Check here: https://www.elcastilloretirement.com/#:~:text=El%20Castillo%...

Less expensive than the ones we have seen in CA. Not as hot as AZ. Nor as conservative.

Here is one in North Texas https://www.seniorhomes.com/texas/north-richland-hills/atria...

Not as hot as AZ and less expensive than CA. (My search turned up 150 in TX alone.)

CNC
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...We choose to go to the OFH (Old Folks Home) while we are still mobile and not yet (quite) senile...

That's the way to do it! If you wait too long, your children will choose for you. And:
- since you'll be in crisis mode, you'll have to go to whatever place has availability, not a place with a waiting list.
- even if you luck out into a place you would've chosen anyway, your reduced mobility and/or short-term memory loss will make it harder to acclimate than if you were younger and still relatively healthy and competent.
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Rich: My parents moved into a retirement community and loved it since there was plenty to do, there was no house or yard maintenance, etc. The only sad thing is that they were on the very young side of people living there and you had to deal with the fairly frequent deaths of nearby residents. I guess no place is perfect.

A pregnant thought about folks dying. The place we want has a three year waiting list (We have been waiting almost two years now.), so we are literally waiting for someone to die. Morbid thought. I don't know the population of "our" place, but maybe 300+. I have a layout, so I could count the number of apartments and assume 1.7 people per apartment. Or I could ask.

CNC
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I vote none of the above. Here's my plan for things as I get older.

What I'd like is to sell my house and replace it with an RV, which I expect to cost about $450,000 all in. The RV I want doesn't quite exist yet. It will be all electric and autonomous, essentially functioning as a private cruise ship on land. One likely source will be a Tesla semi (starting production in 2021) pulling a custom-built standard container with full electric living quarters and a car for local transport. Tesla semi megachargers will provide cheap electricity wherever I go. It will have a 600+ mile range and mostly drive itself. At the least I should be able to go to sleep heading out of one city and wake up pulling into another far away.

If I need a hospital it can take me there. If I need a haircut it can take me there. If I need a meal it can take me there. If I want to visit my kids it can take me there. Etc., etc., etc. Pretty much it covers everything except overseas travel.

And it should be much cheaper than a nice house. And the maintenance should be pretty cheap. I imagine parking will be a challenge sometimes though.

Even if I have to compromise on the autonomy part in the short term, it will almost certainly be available long before I'm unsafe to drive.

I expect such things will become quite popular with the retired set.

I expect the hardest part of this will be convincing my wife.

-IGU-
(LBYM forever!)
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Here is one in North Texas https://www.seniorhomes.com/texas/north-richland-hills/atria......

Not as hot as AZ


HAHAHAHAHA Have you ever lived in North Texas? Generally, it's 90+ about 90 days out of the year. It may not be 'as hot' as AZ, but it's certainly not a place to avoid heat. Worse, it's not a 'dry heat' like AZ, NV, UT or CO.

AJ
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As many of us expect to be retired for over 30 years, many of us may make different choices at different stages of retirement. Can I have more than one choice?

One you missed is I think very important. Close to family. An excellent choice for many.

I've been retired 20 years. Have downsized once (closer to family) but wanted a place to garden. So still have lawn to mow. But one day plan to move to a retirement community. Much depends on physical abilities, health, etc.

Yes, my mom stayed in her home as long as she could. But many places become difficult to stay when you can no longer drive. Then family can help you stay longer. But the fact that friends can no longer drive either results in increasing isolation in that home. Then retirement community around people and activities can be a good choice. But of course, not for everyone.
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HAHAHAHAHA Have you ever lived in North Texas? Generally, it's 90+ about 90 days out of the year. It may not be 'as hot' as AZ, but it's certainly not a place to avoid heat. Worse, it's not a 'dry heat' like AZ, NV, UT or CO.

AJ


I was raised in Wichita Falls. Any day after Memorial Day that's not over 100° is a cool day. But it also is a dry heat. Not as hot as Phoenix, but hot enough. Fort Worth and Dallas are cooler, but more humid.

I had the good sense to leave as soon as I finished college, and I haven't been back except to visit family.

I take it you are from the area? Can you share that with us? (e-mail if you want. I won't tell anyone your horrible, dark secret.)

😁😁😁

CNC
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pauleckler: I've been retired 20 years. Have downsized once (closer to family) but wanted a place to garden. So still have lawn to mow. But one day plan to move to a retirement community. Much depends on physical abilities, health, etc.

My garden is something I will miss in the OFH. I am hoping the town will have a "Pea Patch" area where I can have a small garden. (I just cut down the last of my corn and squash today.)

Yes, my mom stayed in her home as long as she could. But many places become difficult to stay when you can no longer drive. Then family can help you stay longer.

My In-Laws illustrate your point nicely. Neither drive, and neither is in good health. SIL does some driving for them, but she is not reliable, and she gets impatient with MIL for taking a long time picking our her stuff in a grocery store. I think MIL gets a certain enjoyment out of shopping, free from her dominating husband. FIL has sworn a mighty oath that when he leaves his house it will be feet first.

CNC
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I take it you are from the area? Can you share that with us? (e-mail if you want. I won't tell anyone your horrible, dark secret.)

Lived in Houston for about a year, then in DFW for about 6 years. Now in Washington State, mostly on the North Olympic Peninsula, where the temperature doesn't get above 70 a lot, and the few times a year it hits 80, it's a big deal. Very good for avoiding heat. Not so good for growing tomatoes and peppers, but planning on building a greenhouse to help with that. Worth having to build a greenhouse to avoid the heat.

And as an added bonus, the winters are generally about as warm (or warmer) than North Texas winters. It rarely drops below freezing, and as long as you don't live at an altitude over 1000 feet, it usually rains, rather than snowing. The snow we get once or twice a year generally doesn't stick around more than a few days, if that long. It did snow in Houston the year that I lived there, and the ice and snow in DFW seemed to stick around longer there than it does here.

AJ
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Lived in Houston for about a year, then in DFW for about 6 years. Now in Washington State, mostly on the North Olympic Peninsula, where the temperature doesn't get above 70 a lot, and the few times a year it hits 80, it's a big deal.

Tell me you aren't retired in Sequim! Kinda isolated to my taste. I lived in Seattle for nine years and liked it (Hey, I was from Wichita Falls and didn't know any better.) I don't think I could go back there, though. Allergic to rain and gloom in six month stretches.

CNC
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YewG: "I’ve seen up close the pros and cons of both ways. I’ve concluded that old age is bad either way, so haven’t decided what to do next."

Yep. I already composed my long-winded response to this question in an earlier thread:

https://boards.fool.com/end-of-life-decisions-are-hugely-per...

Old age aint for sissies.
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Although I answered you'll have to drag me out feet first, we've already downsized when we moved to a different state. Lived there for two years....and then upsized. Sort of.

We bought a place with an apartment below the one floor living top floor that is walk out to yard. A raised rancher. It also has a currently one bedroom apartment below which we are considering making into a two bedroom, a pool, 2 acres and on a lake, yet 5 miles to the center of the city. When we get to the point where we no longer want to ride the lawn mower, we will pay someone to do it. Ditto with the pool. HOA fees are not cheap when you have community living and we love having our own pool. First time we have one and find it to be off the charts wonderful.

If anything happens to DH I can see renting to another retiree, and eventually as we need more help, we could have caretakers living below. We currently only live in half the house, but have a kid graduating college into this cr@p economy in December, so he may need the apartment for a while. We haven't been here quite a year, and already love the neighborhood. There is a senior center an Uber away where I could get social activity if I need something more organized, a health club we belong to a mile away with a great sense of community, a pickleball club that offers opportunities to play 7 days a week. But DH is barely 60 and I am 4 years behind him, so possibly I just can't imagine being disabled. Perhaps more to the point, I can't imagine going for quantity of life over quality. Watched Mom do that and it's not for me. I will take matters into my own hands if life is no longer worth living.

And we always have the right to change our mind down the road, with a great asset to sell to fund that change if we so desire. Win/win.
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My parents moved into a retirement community and loved it since there was plenty to do, there was no house or yard maintenance, etc. The only sad thing is that they were on the very young side of people living there and you had to deal with the fairly frequent deaths of nearby residents. I guess no place is perfect.

My parents did too, and loved it for two years. Then the place got bought out and the new management started treating them like doddering old fools who could not take any responsibility for their own life. This also was in conjunction with charging a bunch of new fees, since the base fees were locked in with their contract, subject only to cost of living increases based on a fixed index. No longer could you bring a tray of food up to the apartment if your spouse was not feeling up to the dining room. You might spill it, so a teenager was paid to bring it up. And if you got season tickets through the facility, you had to ride the jitney rather than take your own car. For a fee, of course. Dad revolted and moved out, leaving $100K of their buy in behind. This was "independent" living. As a family we are not great on having our independence eroded.

I confess, I've never been a fan of living in anything other than a SFH, preferably one with enough land that I only have to interact with my neighbors when I want to.

IP
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I voted that we would downsize, and we are actively trying to find a piece of land to build something smaller, but the fact is that we built this house so that we could live here forever, so there is no big rush to downsize except for lowering our operating costs. When we designed this house, everything is on the first floor and the garage is attached, so there are only 2 steps to get in the house. The master bedroom, laundry room and my sewing room are all on the first floor. The only thing upstairs are 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, so I don't need to go up there for much of anything.

Even our attic is walk-in since it is the space over the 3-car garage, so we just walk in from the 2nd floor to get to anything we want. There's another attic over the 2nd floor that is walk-up, but we don't store anything up there.

At this point, we have sort of decided we will be here for a bunch more years, and are now actually putting solar on the house. But I think if I go before DH, he will definitely move to something smaller. If he goes first, there is a large probability that I will stay in this house because I have all the space I want and use, and I will hire out for the things that he does now.

But I find this an interesting discussion, and am curious to read all the other responses.
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None of the above. I am working at selling real estate in the best tax situations and plan to own nothing in about 3 years. At that point, I plan to live in various places around the world, a few months at a time.
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What do you plan for our old age residence?

I have no plans. I'll worry about it later.

PSU
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So: no upsizing!

And here I've gone and confessed we downsized and then upsized. One of the problems I found, since I want a single family home and not a townhouse or condo, is that if you don't buy a big house you don't get good sized rooms. I am sure there are exceptions to that rule, but we looked for two years before we bought the 4br house we "downsized" to. Fewer bedrooms just had small rooms, which I can't stand, and even if the living area was "open" space, bedrooms were small. And we did downsize to the tune of about 1100SF, but we couldn't pass up our current house when we saw how perfect it was for us, even though it meant upsizing back up to over 3500SF.

Our kids don't even have significant others, so grandkids are a ways off. Meanwhile, we have SIL and her family join us for holidays as well as the boys.

Nothing cookie cutter about retirement.

IP
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A pregnant thought about folks dying. The place we want has a three year waiting list (We have been waiting almost two years now.), so we are literally waiting for someone to die. Morbid thought.

I wonder what the long term viability of these CCRs are, given the impact of the Virus. This isn't the first virus and it won't be the last. If we don't learn how to protect the CCRs from infection, I can't see people wanting to go in to one. I certainly think it will be scrutinized more going forward.

IP
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All you can do is plan for what you want. Life will throw at you what it will and you have to adapt. My mom worked into her 70s, then retired and planned to travel with her BFF. Almost literally as they were packing the BFF got sick and died. Mom never did any traveling after that. Now she's 87 and her mind is going. Amazingly quickly. She was told not to drive last year, but otherwise was OK for IL at the community we moved her to. Today, 1 yr later, there's discussion whether she should move to MC and if AL is sufficient. But she has to move. Sometimes I can be on the phone with her for an hour and not get one piece of coherent information. Usually I have no idea what she's talking about.

Life is something that happens to you while you're making other plans. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't make the plans. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. And you don't know until after the fact.
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At 62 and 63, the current plan is to stay in our large house unless/until circumstances dictate otherwise -- we guestimate a good 20 years. We like having the space, the privacy, and the options.

* There is a currently-unfinished bedroom/bathroom/office suite in the basement (9-foot ceilings) that could be finished and used by part-time live-in help should we need it.
* DH's shop is just about where he wants it, and a year-round greenhouse is currently under construction.
* Last night during a discussion to figure out how to make a quick trip to Nebraska to bury his mother, we realized another benefit to our design: our bedroom can be accessed from outside and completely closed off to the remainder of the house so DH can quarantine in comfort when he returns. (I'll move upstairs to our daughter's room and bath.)
* My accident three years ago confirmed the accessibility of the main floor (34" doorways, 4' hallways, adequate bathroom space to maneuver a wheel chair).
* The central stairwell houses closets but could be retrofitted with an elevator.
* My son and I are going to clear a 3/4-mile track around the property for cross-country skiing this winter. Might even decide to put down wood chips ($100/dump truck load, delivered) to make it a year-round exercise path.

Kathleen
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I wonder what the long term viability of these CCRs are, given the impact of the Virus. This isn't the first virus and it won't be the last. If we don't learn how to protect the CCRs from infection, I can't see people wanting to go in to one. I certainly think it will be scrutinized more going forward.

IP


We have been in contact with "our" CCRC and they have had no Covid cases so far. Everyone entering has his temperature checked, and masks are 100%. They are delivering meals to each resident rather than using the dining room.

CNC
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I was raised in Wichita Falls. Any day after Memorial Day that's not over 100° is a cool day. But it also is a dry heat.

CNC needs to move into a CCRC quickly. He's showing early signs of cognitive decline by his claims of dry heat. During the Vietnam Era, the USAF assigned me to Sheppard Technical Training Center for training during the summer. He's right about the heat but it was definitely not a "dry heat".
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1pg All you can do is plan for what you want. Life will throw at you what it will and you have to adapt. My mom worked into her 70s, then retired and planned to travel with her BFF. Almost literally as they were packing the BFF got sick and died. Mom never did any traveling after that. Now she's 87 and her mind is going. Amazingly quickly. She was told not to drive last year, but otherwise was OK for IL at the community we moved her to. Today, 1 yr later, there's discussion whether she should move to MC and if AL is sufficient. But she has to move. Sometimes I can be on the phone with her for an hour and not get one piece of coherent information. Usually I have no idea what she's talking about.

I hope the people who are planning to age in place in their big SFH's read and understand what you have said here.

CNC
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CNC needs to move into a CCRC quickly. He's showing early signs of cognitive decline by his claims of dry heat. During the Vietnam Era, the USAF assigned me to Sheppard Technical Training Center for training during the summer. He's right about the heat but it was definitely not a "dry heat".

I see that I was too harsh on poor Wichita Falls. Only Friday will have over 100° in the next week.
ihttps://www.yahoo.com/news/weather/united-states/texas/wichita-falls...

And Wichita Falls was dry compared to Foat Wuth or Dallass.

I grew to pity the Air Men who were stationed there.

CNC
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There is an added wrinkle that 1poorlady and I were talking about last night. Take your case, for example. How does your CCRC determine (and by what right can they act) if you decline? The Countess can act, of course. But suppose she can't for some reason (maybe deceased, or in decline herself). If you are in decline you may not realize you are in decline, and you may not realize you need assistance or even memory care. What then?

For 1poormom in a SFH, it took a fall and hospitalization to reveal it. I didn't really notice because I didn't live with her, and when we spoke on the phone I only observed some word-finding. But in the hospital the nurses noticed immediately and called for neurological evaluation (which then determined that she should never drive again, and she shouldn't live alone without some sort of safety back-up that her retirement community offers). She was a "feet first" person regarding her house, but the neuro report changed all that.

Back to you, it would be one thing if you requested a move to AL in your OFH. But what if you don't, and you need it anyway? Can the CCRC act in your interest? Maybe they're contractually obligated to?

Another poster said she would "take matters into my own hands". I'd like to think I would have the fortitude to do that also, but I won't know until it happens. And I would ask the same question of her: would she be aware before it was too late for her to know to take such action as she intended? I suspect that when one would want to take such action one also would not have the intellectual horsepower to know/remember that they wanted to do that. Depending on the variety of dementia we're dealing with.
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1pg Back to you, it would be one thing if you requested a move to AL in your OFH. But what if you don't, and you need it anyway? Can the CCRC act in your interest? Maybe they're contractually obligated to?

Good question. I don't know. I will be sure to ask, though. At some point in the process of mental decline would anyone recognize his own decline? I know my father did. I was walking with him in his back yard and he turned to me and asked, "How do you feel, seeing me like this?" I remember that conversation vividly. I had no good answer, so I just said that I was happy to see him in any case. The issue here, at least, has nothing to do with assisted living, but with mental care, euphemistically called "memory care". Dad's issue was senility - started slowly, but eventually left him in what has accurately been called a "Second Childhood."

Another poster said she would "take matters into my own hands". I'd like to think I would have the fortitude to do that also, but I won't know until it happens. And I would ask the same question of her: would she be aware before it was too late for her to know to take such action as she intended? I suspect that when one would want to take such action one also would not have the intellectual horsepower to know/remember that they wanted to do that. Depending on the variety of dementia we're dealing with.


Yup. Who among us can recognize his own mental decline and act to end it? I believe my Dad did that in a way. He was eventually institutionalized in the old fashioned kind of "Old Folks Home" - two beds in a room, minimum care. At one point he refused to eat. Clenched his teeth, would not take either water or food. And he died. They wanted to give him morphine to make him relax. My sister had POA and they asked her (Mom had already passed.) what to do. Shall we give him morphine? "What will happen if you don't?" "He will die." "No morphine." And he died. He was finally at peace.

We have written instructions in our paperwork - DNR, etc. Not sure about the possibility of mental incapacity. Worth pursuing.

CNC
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Tell me you aren't retired in Sequim! Kinda isolated to my taste. I lived in Seattle for nine years and liked it (Hey, I was from Wichita Falls and didn't know any better.) I don't think I could go back there, though. Allergic to rain and gloom in six month stretches.

Close. Doesn't seem all that isolated to me, but I never liked living in cities. Being in the 'blue hole' we have about 35% - 40% of the rain that Seattle gets, and lots of sun even in the winter, so we certainly don't have a six month stretch of rain and gloom. The winter days are short, but length of the summer days more than makes up for it.

AJ
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I hope the people who are planning to age in place in their big SFH's read and understand what you have said here.

You know everyone is different, right ? This time last year I was flying to Paris to celebrate birthdays with a friend turning 75. Both of us are single, healthy, active and living alone. We had planned for that milestone for a few years and are planning for more travel as soon as we can. We worked together and used to visit her aunt whose birthday was near ours. She lived independently until about 98 and lived to 100.
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CNC:

Everyone is different, so you're going to get all kinds of answers! I urge you -- and anyone else thinking about retirement -- to think everything through very carefully. What do you REALLY want -- honestly? What can you afford? Could you exist there if/when one of you dies? A BIG question! (Yes, we have thought about that and agree that either of us could/would stay here, anyway.)

I have posted several times how we bought this home on several acres, on a ridge, in a rural area, 20 years ago, and we love it here. It is still a bit smaller than our former home, but we added on a nice big living room with vaulted ceiling, powder room and foyer, all off the dining room, which is off the nice kitchen. And our "living area" is all on one floor. A big plus.

We have one master bedroom, on this same floor, just down the hallway from the kitchen and a nice bathroom we totally redid. The bath contains a nice, white, volcanic limestone slipper tub (my wife always wanted one), walk-in shower, sink, toilet, cabinet and small table/cabinet. It also has twin bifold doors that hide the washer and dryer, so everything is handy. Our "den" or family room is outside the bedroom, a few steps from the bath.

There are stairs down to 2 bedrooms and another bathroom and shower for guests.

We love this place. The main floor where we "live" is only 2 steps above ground level, so a ramp could be added easily if/or when needed.

It is all but paid for and taxes here are helped a lot by Vermont's "Homesteader Deduction", applied for each spring when we do taxes. All done on line in maybe 1/2 hour and saves us almost 50% of our property taxes.

-----------------

We would NOT want to leave here for an "assisted living" place. It would cost a bundle and, as far as we're concerned, would be like moving into an ant hill or bees' nest -- which makes us feel ill to consider. We love our privacy, and the peace and quiet here.

To each his/her own.

Vermonter
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I hope the people who are planning to age in place in their big SFH's read and understand what you have said here.

I could say the same to you with your CCF, based on my parent's experience. They lasted in one two years and finished their life in a SFH. CCF was not their cup of tea.

There is something to be said about knowing yourself. Shoot for what you know and shift as the wind changes. There is only so far out one can predict.

IP
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Back to you, it would be one thing if you requested a move to AL in your OFH. But what if you don't, and you need it anyway? Can the CCRC act in your interest? Maybe they're contractually obligated to?

And maybe it would financially be in their best interest to do so, regardless of your wishes?

Another poster said she would "take matters into my own hands". I'd like to think I would have the fortitude to do that also, but I won't know until it happens. And I would ask the same question of her: would she be aware before it was too late for her to know to take such action as she intended? I suspect that when one would want to take such action one also would not have the intellectual horsepower to know/remember that they wanted to do that. Depending on the variety of dementia we're dealing with.

Yes, I am resolved that there is a chance that I may have to take actions prematurely, unless the state I live in develops a protocol for assisted suicide in the next 20 years or so that would allow e to set the conditions under which I would have the plug pulled. But my observations have been that there are moments of lucidity, at least in the earlier stages of what I've seen family go through, at which point I would be able to put into actions the plans I have made.

I am not putting my kids through what I've seen.

IP,
who has thought about this quite a lot and way more afraid of simply being alive without living, than dying
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who has thought about this quite a lot and way more afraid of simply being alive without living, than dying

Me too. But it's one thing to plan, it's another thing to do it. I won't know until I get there. Maybe I'm a coward. Don't think I am, but can't know for sure. I'm usually pretty stoic about things, but I also haven't been in many life/death situations. I did think I was going to die last year, and was making preparations for 1poorlady to be able to handle all the finances and everything. But that's different than actually offing yourself.
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Me too. But it's one thing to plan, it's another thing to do it.

LOL. I a not going to advance my schedule to prove I am capable of the action. I believe I am but time will tell. In the meantime, one can only make plans. I am frankly hoping not to have to go that route, mostly because it too can do damage to those you leave behind.

I am also actively planning our estate to protect our twenty-somethings in case we are both simultaneously hit by a bus and they find themselves inheriting large sums much too early in life. It doesn't mean I am going to take DH's hand and step in front of a truck. These are contingency plans.

IP
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Ideally spend half the time in the US (where I currently live) and the other half in the UK, where I'm originally from. Just wish the tax situation wasn't so daunting.
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I believe I am but time will tell. In the meantime, one can only make plans.

Yeah. Me too. And also not in a hurry to "test" this.

We set-up a trust several years ago. Plus wills, living wills, and powers of attorney. So we at least took care of that.

1pg
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I am also actively planning our estate to protect our twenty-somethings in case we are both simultaneously hit by a bus and they find themselves inheriting large sums much too early in life.

Why don't you trust your kids ?

My youngest became executor when he turned 21 with the agreement of his siblings. I figured the older two would use money to start or buy businesses and the youngest might travel for awhile. As it turned out, the youngest who is now 32 has all his retirement ducks in as straight a row as possible, bought his house and just bought a rental property. While he is a firefighter, he absolutely knows his seniority which is middle in the department. That is a good thing since his department just got told return a new budget with a 50% cut.
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Why don't you trust your kids ?

Because kids are as different as the situations we discuss here about whether or not to pay off a mortgage, invest in X% stocks, etc. Like IP, we have one who is (and always has been) the model of sensibility, trustworthiness, etc., etc., and one who is not so much so. In addition to protecting our younger from herself, we do not want the elder to have to manage any expectations of the younger. It's every bit as much a balancing act as anything else involving people.

Kathleen
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I am also actively planning our estate to protect our twenty-somethings in case we are both simultaneously hit by a bus and they find themselves inheriting large sums much too early in life.
...
Why don't you trust your kids ?


You are putting words in my mouth. Very incorrect words.

If we were hit by a truck today, they would each receive millions of dollars. I think this is a disservice to a 22 year old who is just about to graduate college. As it stands, they would immediately receive a significant chunk via IRA, over $1MM each, with the remainder to follow at 35. They will also have the right to keep the funds in the trust, which they are immediate co-trustees of and free to invest the funds themselves, getting the customary interest and dividends annually. Additionally there are the customary provisions in the trust for health, education, maintenance and support, which includes the opportunity to get funds to start their own business or buy a home, if the co-trustee agrees. We have also discussed it with both, and they understand and agree with our reasoning.

In our case, 25 year old Eldest is executor of our estate and successor trustee of our family trust, responsible for overseeing the division into two individual trusts at which point they are their own trustee with a co-trustee they must find, such as a CPA. Both boys also have medical POA to make decisions for us if we can not make decisions for each other or ourselves.

This will all be a moot point in 13 years when Youngest turns 35. We very much expect to be alive at that time, but one does not plan to be taken out in a crash with a semi tractor trailer on the interstate. Instead we understand the possibility and mitigate the fallout. Assuming we manage to live for the next 30-40 years, there may also be much less to inherit.

Trusts can be used as an asset management tool that does not have to be eternal management from the grave. Money is good, but too much money, too soon and in a time of bereavement, can be detrimental.

IP
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If we were hit by a truck today, they would each receive millions of dollars. I think this is a disservice to a 22 year old who is just about to graduate college.

At age 23, my daughter had a new home built and is putting 15% of her income into her 401k.

PSU
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This will all be a moot point in 13 years when Youngest turns 35.

My father died when I was 25. My husband died when my youngest was 22.

Money is good, but too much money, too soon and in a time of bereavement, can be detrimental.

I didn't inherit but my experience is that any amount of money is helpful. Even a ton would have been at any point for me - there are a couple of other deaths in there I didn't mention.

No one was running to spend money on blow and hookers. However, particularly when my husband died, it was a relief to get my daughter a ticket home the next day without waiting for the Red Cross.
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At age 23, my daughter had a new home built and is putting 15% of her income into her 401k.

My daughter will be 23 in 13 years. She will be on Mars establishing the first human colony, having already conquered the free world and mastering 14 languages.

Tim
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At age 23, my daughter had a new home built and is putting 15% of her income into her 401k.

At age 25, Eldest has 6 figures in his own portfolio and maxes out his 401K/IRA. He graduated college with over $40K in his brokerage account, that he earned himself. What's your point?

IP
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My father died when I was 25. My husband died when my youngest was 22.

And that probably left your mom using the assets and most certainly you are still here. So what's your point?

No one was running to spend money on blow and hookers. However, particularly when my husband died, it was a relief to get my daughter a ticket home the next day without waiting for the Red Cross.

LOL. Spending money on "blow and hookers"? Really? Not remotely a concern, or we would not be giving them as much as they are getting right away, which would pay for a village of people to get a ticket home without the Red Cross. They both have more than enough self earned funds in their accounts to do that now. Frankly if that were a concern they would get nothing. I've seen what enabling that type of behavior can do to a person.

Clearly your knowledge of the protections a trust can offer are limited, if you think the above is the only reason to get a trust. Yet I've seen you on the trust board, so I can only assume that you are simply once more trying to disparage my posts.

Whatever. What we are doing is working for our family. For those who have retired at an age where they have young adults that could inherit a good deal of money if they suddenly died, consider the consequences of receiving that money.

IP
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In all fairness I know a person whose sister would do exactly that (per my friend's description...I've never met the sister). Well, she wouldn't blow it on "hookers". But she'd blow it. Apparently she is rather selfish, rather irresponsible, and rather foolish.

So it is a legit concern for some people (i.e. to whom they leave -or don't leave- money). As I recall mommy and daddy haven't taken any steps to exclude or control what funds go to this person. I didn't pry much, but that's what I remember.

A trust is a great idea. As I said before, we set up one several years ago. We have age thresholds 1poorkid has to achieve before she gets more power over the trust should something happen to us. She's already met the first threshold, but there's one more.

1pg
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At age 25, Eldest has 6 figures in his own portfolio and maxes out his 401K/IRA. He graduated college with over $40K in his brokerage account, that he earned himself. What's your point?

My point was you said "a 22 year old" and not "my 22 year old". While you may think a lot of money is too much for your kid, other people have kids that would not have any issue having a lot of money at a young age.

PSU
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Eat your blueberries if you want to be cognitive enough to kill yourself.

https://www.alzheimers.net/4-8-15-mind-diet-alzheimers-preve...

A study from Rush University in Chicago has found that the Mediterranean-DASH Intervention for Neurodegenerative Delay (MIND) Diet may reduce the risk of Alzheimer’s by as much as 50% and still has protective powers, even when not followed rigorously.

Developing the MIND Diet
Researchers from Rush University in Chicago have combined elements from both the Mediterranean Diet and the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diets to create the Mediterranean-DASH Intervention for Neurodegenerative Delay (MIND) Diet.

A Mediterranean diet is high in healthy fats, omega 3’s and whole grains, and has been shown to reduce the risk of cancer and heart disease. The DASH diet focuses on fruits and vegetables and low-fat dairy, and has been shown to reduce the risk of heart attack, hypertension and stroke.
Researchers evaluated over 900 seniors who were participating in the Rush Memory and Aging Project (MAP) project that studies the aging process. Researchers evaluated the nutritional information of seniors that were already following basic MIND diet principles as well as those who ate a Mediterranean diet and a DASH diet. Researchers then noted the incidences of Alzheimer’s of those seniors over a 5 year period. They found that those seniors who followed the MIND diet reduced their risk of developing Alzheimer’s by as much as 53% and when it was not followed rigorously it still reduced the disease by as much as 35%.
Lead author of the study, Dr. Martha Morris, was surprised to see that those who did not follow the diet strictly still had considerable protection from Alzheimer’s.
“It was surprising that even those individuals who had moderate adherence to the MIND diet had reduced risk of Alzheimer’s disease. This was not the case for either the DASH or Mediterranean diets for which only the highest adherence conferred protective benefits.”
The strength of the diet may be because the diet was specifically designed according to the latest research on how nutrition affects the brain. Researchers believe that people who follow the diet for years will get the best protection from Alzheimer’s.
Elements of the MIND Diet
The MIND diet is comprised of 15 elements, 10 brain-healthy food groups and then five unhealthy groups.

The 10 brain-healthy food groups include:
* Beans
* Berries
* Fish
* Green leafy vegetables
* Nuts
* Poultry
* Olive oil
* Other vegetables
* Whole grains
* Wine


The five unhealthy food groups include:
* Butter and stick margarine
* Cheese
* Fast or fried foods
* Pastries and sweets
* Red meats

Here is the study

MIND diet slows cognitive decline with aging

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4581900/

And here is another one:

Mediterranean-Dash Intervention for Neurodegenerative Delay (MIND) Diet Slows Cognitive Decline After Stroke

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199507/

Please talk to someone if you are depressed.
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My point was you said "a 22 year old" and not "my 22 year old". While you may think a lot of money is too much for your kid, other people have kids that would not have any issue having a lot of money at a young age.

Actually, I said "a 22 year old who is just about to graduate college." That is not a small difference as he has yet to establish himself in his career. I don't want to get in the way of his motivation to work by giving him too much money all at once. And I also said he would be receiving over $1MM at our death, with the remainder in trust until 35. That's real money, even in today's dollars, and enough to cut your teeth on with the remainder to follow. This helps to insure that he won't be taken advantage of and lose his whole nest egg due to a bad choice of spouse, or lose it all because of some lawsuit. No guarantees, but it does help, particularly since he can chose to keep it in trust and pass directly on to any of his kids or back to his brother. And we have made no bones about wanting to provide this for retirement. 35 is quite young enough to receive those funds.

Knowing how frugal Youngest can be, he could probably "retire" with his inheritance if we were to die today. I would hate to take away his motivation to work for a bit first, so he can make a more informed decision about which way to go.


IP
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IP: If we were hit by a truck today, they would each receive millions of dollars. I think this is a disservice to a 22 year old who is just about to graduate college. As it stands, they would immediately receive a significant chunk via IRA, over $1MM each, with the remainder to follow at 35...
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Actually, they don't have to receive the $1MM IRA each immediately at your death, unless you want them too, which it didn't sound like you did. You could name their trust share as beneficiary instead of them, but only take distributions each year as desired in the new 10-year required payout period. It's actually a little easier for a trust to qualify under the look-through rules than it was under the prior faster RMD rules for beneficiaries. Mainly because the age of the beneficiary isn't usually relevant. Ten years is ten years.

This would give them some planning possibilities each year, depending on their personal income tax and financial situations. You would only use the trust as a passthrough, as you don't to leave ordinary income undistributed at the trust(s) higher rates. BUT the co-trustee could be involved in the determining the desirable amount of each year's distribution in that 10-year period.

Just something to consider with your lawyer, if you hadn't.

Bill
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And that probably left your mom using the assets and most certainly you are still here. So what's your point?

What assets ? My father was in the merchant marine - paid by the voyage. She got a small pension with no increase ever and eventually social security. She was 56 & he was 59.

I'm here. What's your point ?

Not remotely a concern, or we would not be giving them as much as they are getting right away, which would pay for a village of people to get a ticket home without the Red Cross.

I should have explained. My daughter was an AF dependent and the Red Cross would have been in charge of getting her home if we had waited. It was a holiday weekend and it took her husband a couple of days because they had to arrange it for him. He was coming from Oman but his permanent assignment was England which is where she was.

Clearly your knowledge of the protections a trust can offer are limited, if you think the above is the only reason to get a trust.

No, I fully understand. A friend and I have discussed them in detail. Usually we do it every summer.

For those who have retired at an age where they have young adults that could inherit a good deal of money if they suddenly died, consider the consequences of receiving that money.

I retired from full-time employment at 49. I don't see consequences, only opportunity.
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This would give them some planning possibilities each year, depending on their personal income tax and financial situations. You would only use the trust as a passthrough, as you don't to leave ordinary income undistributed at the trust(s) higher rates. BUT the co-trustee could be involved in the determining the desirable amount of each year's distribution in that 10-year period.

Thanks Bill. That's very helpful. We thought the withdrawals from the IRA would be taxed at the trust rate. In the very least I guess we could put the Roth portion in the trust and it still would not have to be distributed for 10 years? And would the boys then be getting the Roth distributed via the trust still as a tax free event, or would it then have to stay in the trust til 35?

We felt we had this figured out until they pulled the inherited IRA for non-spouses.

IP
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This would give them some planning possibilities each year, depending on their personal income tax and financial situations. You would only use the trust as a passthrough, as you don't to leave ordinary income undistributed at the trust(s) higher rates. BUT the co-trustee could be involved in the determining the desirable amount of each year's distribution in that 10-year period.
--------------------------------
...We thought the withdrawals from the IRA would be taxed at the trust rate.
Well, that depends on the terms of the trust, possibly subject to state laws applicable to trusts that may apply. Distributions required to be made, or actually made, will be taxed to the beneficiary rather than the trust. In many cases, distributions of income are required, as most beneficiaries will be in a lower bracket than a trust. (Not true if they're both in the top bracket, of course.)

But if distributions are an optional matter for the trustee(s), then some planning can save a lot of money. I think it's a good feature in your trust as you describe it, that your sons have a professional co-trustee. That permits (or requires) some deliberation and consultation to arrive at a favorable strategy in selecting annual distribution amounts.

In the very least I guess we could put the Roth portion in the trust and it still would not have to be distributed for 10 years?

That should be fine with the IRS to the extent that it's not taxable income to anybody. Whether it's legal under the terms of the trust I couldn't know without reading the document. Receiving Roth IRA distributions would probably be considered "accounting income" (a very technical term), under most laws, subject to permitted options and variations that can be incorporated into the trust. So IF the Roth distribution is accounting income, and IF the trustees have the option of what/how much to distribute, then yes, you can leave it in the trust for 10 years. But if it's "accounting income", and the trust instrument requires it to be distributed, then that's what happens.

[Of course you can leave the Roth in the IRA custodial account for 10 years too, I should think, under the new rules.]

And would the boys then be getting the Roth distributed via the trust still as a tax free event, or would it then have to stay in the trust til 35?
---------------------------------
It should be a tax-free distribution in any case. But the timing and distributions required are a function of the trust instrument, and how that meshes with your state law.

These are all good questions to review with your lawyer. Many lawyers are now madly dashing off revisions to trust documents to reflect the new law changes with inherited IRAs.

And aside from legal requirements, having your sons get some, if not all, of the trust's income distributed to them annually, could be a good idea, for a couple of reasons:
1. They'll probably be in a lower tax bracket than a trust;
2. It will get them used to getting more income, and having more money, on an annual basis, and reduce the culture shock when their trust share terminates at age 35 and receive the "big money." The trust corpus/principal, would still stay in the trust and be conserved/protected until age 35, unless the son and co-trustee determine that making principal distributions prior to that are desirable and prudent. But those decisions also can be governed by the trust provisions.

Bill
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Thanks again, Bill.

It will get them used to getting more income, and having more money, on an annual basis, and reduce the culture shock when their trust share terminates at age 35 and receive the "big money."

And this was one of the large motivations for putting some of the funds in trust. Eldest is doing pretty well with his own assets, though he is restricted to mutual fund investing because of work insider trading rules, and Youngest is definitely learning, but we wanted to make sure their financial education was more advanced before they received the bulk.

Your efforts are much appreciated.

IP
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It will get them used to getting more income, and having more money, on an annual basis, and reduce the culture shock when their trust share terminates at age 35 and receive the "big money."

And this was one of the large motivations for putting some of the funds in trust.


When my mom died, she set up trusts (controlled by me) for each of her grandkids, who were in their early 20's. Each year they got $1000 from the trust in July, and would get the entire thing at age 35.
One begged me for several years in a row to get more than the $1000, or to get in in January instead of July. "Sorry, no" said I. She finally stopped asking.

When she turned 35 and I turned it over to her, she called and thanked me for not giving in. She said, "If I had gotten it when I was younger I would have wasted it. But now we can use it as down payment to buy a house."
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When she turned 35 and I turned it over to her, she called and thanked me for not giving in. She said, "If I had gotten it when I was younger I would have wasted it. But now we can use it as down payment to buy a house."

Yeah, maturity doesn't come overnight, and takes longer for some than for others.

IP
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When she turned 35 and I turned it over to her, she called and thanked me for not giving in. She said, "If I had gotten it when I was younger I would have wasted it. But now we can use it as down payment to buy a house."

By 35, each of my three had bought at least one house with a decent downpayment on their own. I guess everyone has different ideas of what their children need to learn and when. Considering the trajectory of our family life, it has been helpful all around they could deal with their finances by the time they graduated from college but it was pretty much by the end of high school.

Of course, inheritance was never much of our discussions other than not to expect anything. College was our gift to them. And the lessons stuck because the clear message to me has been "spend it all."
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...would get the entire thing at age 35...

If I had gotten a windfall in my 20's, I would've blown it all, learned my lesson the hard way, and become more sensible about career and finances.
If, in my 20's, I had expectations of a windfall at 35, that would've sapped my motivation to work hard in my 20's. Then at 35 I'd find out the hard way that a windfall doesn't go as far as I'd expected. It would be harder to recover in my 30's after squandering so many years.

(All theoretical, I never got a windfall at any age. I'm now 65, retired, and calculating how long my dad's assets will last before I have to start using mine for his care.)

So when DH & I wrote our wills, we stipulated that our children would get their inheritance as soon as legally able (I forget if that was 18 or 21). Not because we were confident they'd manage it well, but because we wanted to minimize the damage in case they didn't.

(Theoretical in their case too, as they're now in their 30's already.)
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I recall a friend of my brother. He was a stereotypical hippie. Really nice guy, but had no motivation. He would register for college, his trust would pay for it, and then he'd cancel and get the refund and live on that. Lather, rinse, repeat. This was in the late 60s, early 70s.

I don't recall at what age he was going to inherit the trust fund, but he was just treading water until then. Haven't heard from him in years. Last time I saw him (probably the 80s) he had a nice house that was off-grid (used a generator). Somewhere north of Phoenix (Cave Creek?). I assume he had gotten the trust fund money. Still didn't have a job as I recall.
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The reality is that once your kid gets to be somewhere in his/her 20's (Certainly by 25) it's pointless to try and manage/control their lives.

You raised them, let them go out into the wide world and seek their fortune. Leaving them a large sum is not the worst thing to happen - especially after the traumatic experience of losing their parents unexpectedly.
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Why do you assume there is one fixed answer that will not change with time and circumstance?

Howie52
Even retired folks need to recognize things going on around them and adapt as necessary.

DW and I are starting in our home but may change due to our health, abilities and the
needs of our family.
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Only four poll options (plus the "pants")??

I think these polls only serve to spur discussion. Most of the time.

I already stated my "plans" (if you can call them that), which criteria. So I won't reiterate. Observing 1poormom does raise the question about whether one would be competent to know when one needs help and/or is in an unsustainable living situation. By the time it is certain you're already too far gone to realize it. It's difficult to reflect that nuance in a five-option poll.

Realistically, we'll probably have to move at some point. Our lot is just under 1 acre. I've hired people to tend to it, but I still need to do things from time to time. The house has 4 BR. When 1poorMIL is no longer with us, and 1poorkid is moved out, that's at least 2 BR too many. We love this house, but it maybe then will be too big. I hate the idea of an apartment (been there, done that). But a CCRC does make a lot of sense as we continue on the path to decrepitude.
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I'm now 65, retired, and calculating how long my dad's assets will last before I have to start using mine for his care.

I am sorry you are there. I almost got there with my mother(monthly spreadsheet check) and had two kids in college at that point - would have been a very tough call. [Before anyone posts about my obligations etc, it wasn't the Cleavers]
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