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http://tinyurl.com/k3hrt

RAGING AGAINST SELF DEFENSE: A PSYCHIATRIST EXAMINES THE ANTI-GUN MENTALITY

Friday, February 24, 2006
By Sarah Thompson, M.D.


It's a long article but worth the read. I hereby take back every time I called you anti-gun nuts "nuts". You aren't nuts, you're just deluded. I thus apologize for questioning your mental health instead of properly blaming your denial of your own situation and projection of the violent feelings you are in denial over onto responsible gun owners.

Mea culpa, mea culpa.

Mike

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Do we really need over-the-top hyperbole to assert basic constituional rights?
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Sheesh, I'm one of those "libs" who actually think there are enough if not too many gun regulations in place, but this psycholigical analysis of those not sharing my point of view is pretty much a huge steaming pile.

Not a surprise when within the first couple of graphs the author--who happens to be director of the Utah Gun Owners Alliance--choses to classify those not thinking like her as "advocates of victims disarmanment".

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please, just hide your guns so kids can't get them and shoot their friends by accident or take them to school.

please.

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Should Dick Cheney have a gun?
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Should Dick Cheney have a gun?


"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun"



(He probably has one -- but it's probably a tiny little thing)

AM
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"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun"

Dick Cheney had the chance to use a gun for fighting, but stayed safely out of range. The only thing he wants a gun for is so he can kill tame animals for amusement.
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I don't feel I have an anti-gun mentality.

I have an anti-idiots-with-guns mentality.

The problem is, the pro-gunners encourage everyone, even idiots, to have their guns.

For every 10 responsible gun owners, you'll have a couple idiots who leave their guns out for kids to play with.

For every 10 responsible gun owners, you'll have a couple idiots who choose to drink and hunt.

-jar
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this is my gun

Actually what Cheney used to shoot the attorney can be accurately called a gun.

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I have an anti-idiots-with-guns mentality.

Agreed. If I want personal protection, I'll go with a simple S&W 908 9MM pistol. What I don't need, but some gun nuts would want, is a Pancor Jackhammer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer). I'm not making a generalization, I know some idiots that indeed scream, "We need guns for our protection!", but have weaponry that rivals the military. Ya don't need a 240-rounds-per-minute gun to stop a burglar.

Duck
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What I don't need, but some gun nuts would want, is a Pancor Jackhammer

I would absolutely love one of those. And if I had one, it would be stored in my locked gun case out of reach of tiny hands. Buy, I surely would like to have that gun around the next time my idiot neighbors decide to let their pit bull roam the neighborhood.
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{{I'm not making a generalization, I know some idiots that indeed scream, "We need guns for our protection!", but have weaponry that rivals the military. Ya don't need a 240-rounds-per-minute gun to stop a burglar.}}


I do understand how the guy is an idiot for wanting to be able to protect himself from military paramilitary groups by being armed in a similar manner as those groups?



c
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please, just hide your guns so kids can't get them and shoot their friends by accident or take them to school.

please.


That's a pretty ignorant approach. You ever try to hide anything from a kid? Let them know where they are and lock them up.
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I do understand how the guy is an idiot for wanting to be able to protect himself from military paramilitary groups by being armed in a similar manner as those groups?

Use some logic, Cattleguy. What's more likely, someone coming to burglarize your house, or a dozen paramilitary types just deciding to take over your neighborhood?

I'm not arguing against guns in general, just showing the absurdity of linking a simple need (protection) with an outrageous want (fully-automatic weaponry).

I don't feel I need anything now, however, my MIL is a former cop and HAS needed keep a C&C and her Beretta 9MM. (She occasionally runs into a few former felons she's been in charge of.)


Duck
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{{Use some logic, Cattleguy. What's more likely, someone coming to burglarize your house, or a dozen paramilitary types just deciding to take over your neighborhood?}}


It is not a matter of which is more likely, it is a matter of what is possible at all? Do you believe that there will never be a Civil War or Rebellion in this country again any time in the future? Do you believe the government of this country will never turn tyrranical or authoritarian? I believe that is almost a guarantee that at some time in the future, all of the above will occur and therefore there is a need for the citizenry to be armed.


c
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Do you believe that there will never be a Civil War or Rebellion in this country again any time in the future? Do you believe the government of this country will never turn tyrranical or authoritarian? I believe that is almost a guarantee that at some time in the future, all of the above will occur and therefore there is a need for the citizenry to be armed.

Geez, and some have accused me of wearing the tinfoil hat.

Actually, the government IS already tyrannical and authoritarian. But I don't see full-scale onslaughts by a bunch of armed-to-the-teeth Idahoans anytime soon.

Right now, I'd just have to worry about the crackhead down the street that just might decide to break into my house to steal my TV to fund his daily fix. That's much more likely.

You're a bit more paranoid than I am, Cattleguy!



Duck
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{{You're a bit more paranoid than I am}}


I fail to see how I am paranoid. Looking back on history, it seems fairly typical for democracy to fail at some point. To be prepared for that potential failure seems reasonable.



c
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Geez, and some have accused me of wearing the tinfoil hat.

This might be the reason....

Actually, the government IS already tyrannical and authoritarian.
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That's a pretty ignorant approach. You ever try to hide anything from a kid? Let them know where they are and lock them up.


ok, lock them up then. bad choice of words on my part. someplace where they can't get them. sheesh.

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Do you believe the government of this country will never turn tyrranical or authoritarian?

TURN??

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For every 10 responsible gun owners, you'll have a couple idiots who leave their guns out for kids to play with.

I'm all for your typical winger leaving loaded guns for their kids to play with. Natural selection and improving the gene pool.
If we are really lucky, they will shoot the parents.

*JR*
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Buy, I surely would like to have that gun around the next time my idiot neighbors decide to let their pit bull roam the neighborhood.


Hell, bow and arrow can take care of that. He "accidentally" ran in front of the target just as you released.

herb
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Do we really need over-the-top hyperbole to assert basic constituional rights?

I thought it was a PA rule that every post has to drip with hyperbole...

Mike
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I thus apologize for questioning your mental health instead of properly blaming your denial of your own situation and projection of the violent feelings you are in denial over onto responsible gun owners.

Mea culpa, mea culpa.

Mike


That's OK, Mike. We don't mind that shrink compensating for his below average you-know-what by owning a gun, either... as long as he doesn't shoot us.

See? Amateur psychiatry is fun!
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Let them know where they are and lock them up.

That and teach kids that, if they see a gun they should stop, not touch it and tell an adult. That way if they come across a gun, say, on the ground while walking home from school, they'll know what to do (and what NOT to do). Even if you don't have guns in your home this is an important lesson for kids!

Mike
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I'm all for your typical winger leaving loaded guns for their kids to play with. Natural selection and improving the gene pool.
If we are really lucky, they will shoot the parents.


Of course, you are. Maybe they can play with the guns with your kids or take them to your kid's school... maybe if we're real lucky they'll shoot your kid's parents. You know, natural selection cleaning up the gene pool and all that.

How's that sound to you?
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We don't mind that shrink compensating for his below average you-know-what by owning a gun, either... as long as he doesn't shoot us.

I'm pretty sure Sarah Thompson, M.D. is a she, in which case I'm not sure what she'd be compensating for by owning a gun, though I suspect it is more of a self-defense tool than a compensatory tool.

Mike
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Hell, bow and arrow can take care of that. He "accidentally" ran in front of the target just as you released.

I am not good with a bow and arrow. And trust me, if I am gonna take out that beast, it won't be on accident.
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I am not good with a bow and arrow.

Even better. Gives you a good excuse to be out there praticing and a damn good excuse when you hit the sucker at least 10 foot away from the target.

herb
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I'm always reminded of an episode of Archie Bunker in which Archie, interviewed on TV as a man-on-the-street explained that banning guns wouldn't prevent hijackings; handing out a gun to every passenger at boarding would make us all safe!
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I'm pretty sure Sarah Thompson, M.D. is a she, in which case I'm not sure what she'd be compensating for by owning a gun, though I suspect it is more of a self-defense tool than a compensatory tool.

Mike


True, true. Compensating for feelings of helplessnes might work. But hey, we are helpless.

I have a good friend. One night, he's sound asleep in bed, his wife beside him, his little kids in the next room. He wakes up in the dead of night and there's a stranger in the room, some home invading crack head type.

He jumps out of bed (he's totally nude) and attacks the guy. The guy had a knife and not a gun and my friend, who's a big guy, eventually overpowered him.

I suppose a gun would have come in handy, unless a shot went through the wall and killed his kids. The gun would have prevented him from getting cut, assuming he could wake up, instantly retrieve the gun from a place which was also safe from his kids, unlock the trigger lock, flip the safety, then acquire the target and blast the guy.....

....see, that, for me is the trouble with guns for self defense. I support gun ownership because it is naive to assume the cops can defend you at all times and in all places. Any police force that could even begin to do that would be so expensive and intrusive that the cure for crime might be worse than the disease.

So yea, I support the right to bear arms but I don't own a gun myself. There's too many situations where it isn't much help. That could change of course, but right now, I am just not that paranoid.

If I was, I'd own a gun whether it was legal or not so I don't really see what the beefs about gun rights are all about. If the bad guys supposedly now all have illegal guns, that would seem to mean the good guys shouldn't have too much trouble getting one either. Grownups take care of themselves.

In view of the above, me thinks the folks who are constantly on a rant about this have a hidden agenda. That's why I like to razz 'em ;)





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"{{I'm not making a generalization, I know some idiots that indeed scream, "We need guns for our protection!", but have weaponry that rivals the military. Ya don't need a 240-rounds-per-minute gun to stop a burglar.}}"
------------

What about the cyclic rate of a weapon bothers you?

Are you under some false impression that the cyclic rate equals a break point for the owner 'turning' into a criminal?

Come to think of it, then we DO need to limit the cars on the roads to 55 mph by governing all cars making it impossible for any to exceed that speed..


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"That and teach kids that, if they see a gun they should stop, not touch it and tell an adult. That way if they come across a gun, say, on the ground while walking home from school, they'll know what to do (and what NOT to do). Even if you don't have guns in your home this is an important lesson for kids!" Mike
-------------------

Actually, we need to get back to the good old days like when I was a kid in school. Many of us had guns and shot them after we left class.
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Come to think of it, then we DO need to limit the cars on the roads to 55 mph by governing all cars making it impossible for any to exceed that speed..

This is an excellent idea.

I'm a trained and successful amateur racer, and I enjoy driving fast, but I'll happily drive a car governed to 55 to accommodate your proposed compromise equating the regimes for the mitigation of the risks attendant to the ownership and operation of automobiles and guns.

We'll restrict the operation of guns to people who have attained a minimum age, have taken training mandated by the state, have passed a test required by the state, have obtained a license issued by the state (subject to periodic renewal), have licensed their gun(s) with the state (subject to annual renewal and inspection), and have obtained at least the minimum liability insurance required by the state. We'll also be sure to level the commercial playing field by repealing all of the laws insulating the manufacturers of guns and their component parts and ammunition from civil liability for the injuries that folks suffer as a result of the operation of their business.

You're a genius, Tigerman; I'm surprised you and I could find common ground so easily.

Simbob
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<i<So yea, I support the right to bear arms but I don't own a gun myself. There's too many situations where it isn't much help. That could change of course, but right now, I am just not that paranoid.

If I was, I'd own a gun whether it was legal or not so I don't really see what the beefs about gun rights are all about.

Wait, I'm a bit confused here... You don't have a problem with people owning guns for self-defense (even if it wouldn't help in all situations) and don't own one yourself. That part I get. But the whole "If people wanted guns they'd get them legally or not, so why worry about it?" bit is, well, perplexing.

People who obtain guns legally are law abiding people. Given the hoops you have to jump through to buy a handgun and carry it legally in most states, you have to be very willing to follow the law to do so! In other words, they go well out of their way to buy and possess guns legally, it would be much simpler and far less expensive to get one illegally.

On the other hand, people who will obtain guns illegally will do so regardless of the laws and penalties. Law abiding people aren't going to do that, which is why gun control laws take the guns out of the hands of the very people whom you want to have guns and leaves them in the hands of those whom you don't want to have them.

I'm happy that you feel secure where you live. I feel pretty safe at my house as well... but given my job I'm perfectly aware that criminals can strike anywhere at any time. Just this past week, in a "safer" city than the one I live in, a man and his pregnant wife were killed in their home by a parolee and his delusional girlfriend, who then killed another guy (with a gun stolen from a gun show) whose truck they stole and whose body the police found in the bed of said truck when the pair was caught.

Would a gun have helped to the dead couple? Maybe, maybe not, but I'd rather have it available as an option since there are no retakes in life. Not having one certainly didn't work out too well. They strangled the wife in front of the husband then hit him with the butt of an AK-47, injected his veins with bleach, shot him twice and wrapped him in plastic... so they could steal their car and sell it for drugs. This was in northern Macomb County, the far edge of the Detroit suburbs (I live on the other side of the metro area).

I don't think everyone is out to get me, but I do know that criminals don't give a rip about whom they rob and/or kill, and I'm just as likely to end up in their sights as anyone else. I'm not even all that worried about being robbed, you can buy new stuff. But there are some real sickos out there, in every city and town in the country really. I don't want to ever shoot anyone, but if I have to I will, and having laws that let me do so in those situations is certainly a good thing.

Mike
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"This is an excellent idea.

I'm a trained and successful amateur racer, and I enjoy driving fast, but I'll happily drive a car governed to 55 to accommodate your proposed compromise equating the regimes for the mitigation of the risks attendant to the ownership and operation of automobiles and guns.

We'll restrict the operation of guns to people who have attained a minimum age, have taken training mandated by the state, have passed a test required by the state, have obtained a license issued by the state (subject to periodic renewal), have licensed their gun(s) with the state (subject to annual renewal and inspection), and have obtained at least the minimum liability insurance required by the state. We'll also be sure to level the commercial playing field by repealing all of the laws insulating the manufacturers of guns and their component parts and ammunition from civil liability for the injuries that folks suffer as a result of the operation of their business.

You're a genius, Tigerman; I'm surprised you and I could find common ground so easily." Simbob R
.........................

OK... you get the cars all down to 55 mph and then you can 'play' with gun control too.

We have to have our priorities so cars obviously come first as in the number of fatalities and injuries.


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I was wondering whether it would maybe be better to teach Americans how to drive. We have the Autobahn in Germany were relatively dense traffic is moving along quite safely at speeds of 90 mph, with the occasional hobby-racer speeding by at 130+ mph.
Despite that, our traffic death toll is relatively low, 5800 per year.
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