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I noticed something today in a news report by AP regarding the explosion in gaza resulting in the death of the Islamic Jihad commander. AP took the Palestinian police accusations of an IDF strike at face value, even though they were aware of the IDF denial. They completely ignored that IDF routinely takes credit for assassinations it launches.

Israeli air strike kills top military commander of Islamic Jihad: police
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2149&ncid=1856&e=3&u=/cpress/20060301/ca_pr_on_wo/israel_palestinians

Gaza Strip (AP) - An Israeli air strike on a car in Gaza City on Wednesday killed the top commander of the Islamic Jihad's military wing in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian police said.
Khaled Dahdouh, 45, was targeted in the attack, Palestinian police said. The Israeli military, which frequently carries out pinpointed attacks against militants in Gaza, said it was not involved.


If you notice, AP states in the following paragraph.

“In the Gaza air strike, Dahdouh's car was incinerated as it traveled over a speed bump. Hospital officials said two other people were wounded.”

Effectively, they're ignoring the IDF statement and relying solely on the Palestinian claim. They even ignore their own writing, completely discounting the fact that the explosion happened after the car went over a speed bump. Palestinian terrorists have a long history of “work accidents” mishandling explosions. Is it not more likely he was transporting explosives in a careless manner and the speed bump simply was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Then a little further down they again restate the following “factoid”

"The targeted killing was Israel's first since early February, when Israeli air strikes killed two Islamic Jihad members."

Shame on AP for a biased report.

Mark

P.S. ( Forwarded my findings to HonestReporting, as I am sure many of you guessed)
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Shame on AP for a biased report.

Mark


So (taking you at YOUR word) Israel didn't do this one, but if they had everything would be hunky-dory.

Right?

Peter

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So (taking you at YOUR word) Israel didn't do this one, but if they had everything would be hunky-dory.


Peter,
You completely failed to see the point.

Who did it is irrelevant here. AP simply sided with the Palestinian statement ignoring the denial from the IDF (they usually will admit it was their doing if it was indeed an airstrike) ,and even more importantly, disregarding the explosion happened as the terrorist went over a speed bump.

They specifically stated it was an air strike, carelessly omitting "according to the Palestinian police".

That is biased reporting, or horrible editing at best.

Mark
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Mark You completely failed to see the point.

Give me a break--I saw your point about bias. I just don't think it is very interesting.

It is much more important whether you approve of targetted assassinations of the newly elected Hamas leaders.

Do you?

Peter


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<Mark You completely failed to see the point.

Give me a break--I saw your point about bias. I just don't think it is very interesting.

It is much more important whether you approve of targetted assassinations of the newly elected Hamas leaders.

Do you?

Peter>

Since he once announced one with "Another one bites the dust, I'm guessing yes. Killing "animals" is not so important in the perception of some as opposing Israeli policy. Even when the Israeli policy has killed 700+ children, mostly with snipers.
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Give me a break--I saw your point about bias. I just don't think it is very interesting.


Really?
the link still stands with the original text but the news story has changed and been replaced with another with my RSS feeds and Yahoo news feeds. The link no longer present in Yahoo news and AP World news section as well as my RSS feeds.

This is all I get from AP regarding the story. Notice the offending accusations are missing.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060301/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=AvJtCqEEYh5QAgaqtvie5aJvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

USAToday reprinted most of the original message along with the misleading title
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-03-01-islamicjihad_x.htm


It is much more important whether you approve of targeted assassinations of the newly elected Hamas leaders.

Not applicable to this thread. If you must know, start up a new thread and ask. I might just be inclined in answering. I don't mean to offend you but it seems you're attempting change the topic and hijack the thread.

Mark
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Since he once announced one with "Another one bites the dust, I'm guessing yes. Killing "animals" is not so important in the perception of some as opposing Israeli policy


Do you prefer to cry for them like SpottedClick did with Rantisi and Yassin?

How do you view these terrorists who engage in mass murder of innocents? misunderstood humanitarian workers? Do you cry for them?

Say Bin Laden and/or his lieutenants end up riding a missile to their virgins in hell. Would you feel sorrow for their untimely departure?

Do you notice how hypocrisy and bigotry go hand in hand?



Even when the Israeli policy has killed 700+ children, mostly with snipers.

Stop interpreting data at your discretion.

Mark
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Even when the Israeli policy has killed 700+ children, mostly with snipers.

Care to provide a link to prove that? Even 200 children killed by snipers would be proof enough for me. Heck 199 would do just as well.

Wouldn't you say a more accurate sentence would be
Even when the Israeli policy has killed 700+ children, some with snipers.

-TVK
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<Care to provide a link to prove that?>

Could you possibly be more disingenuous? You've seen it- AND RESPONDED TO IT- many, many times.

<Even 200 children killed by snipers would be proof enough for me.>

Or one if they're Israeli huh?

That's a confession of guilt, by the way. Count the head and neck shots. Anyone here who's ever been in the military (which would omit IDF draft dodgers in Toronto) can tell you that anyone but a sniper aims for the chest.

INFANTICIDE.


You must be so proud.
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Say my name when you choose to attack me. Don't hide behind indirect assaults. Is that the Marine way of dealing with personal conflict?

You must be so proud.

BTW, you know nothing of me, same as when you choose to snoop out info on other posters here and completely mishandle it.

Whatever you do, do not venture into intelligence. You will loose your shirt. I rarely give business advice to folk as nice as you so I suggest you consider the gift. :)

Come buff, come out of your protective shell and play nice instead of snapping at my heels every chance you get.



INFANTICIDE.
You must be so proud.


Again, why do you resort to personal attacks? is this a defencive instinct kicking in?

Mark
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Could you possibly be more disingenuous? You've seen it- AND RESPONDED TO IT- many, many times.

No I didn't see it and I didn't respond to it. The only thing I saw was a case of ONE child. One child is not 350+. You are making a serious claim that you cannot support. If 1% of the dead die from snipers that's one thing, if 50% do it means that it's sytematic. Thus I ask you to prove that is systematic. That israeli soldiers are given orders to snipe children when they see them, just because they are palestinian, and that it is the matter of Israeli official policy. No offense to you, but I've yet to see anything on your side other than hate filled words with no backup. Sure I'll admit there is corruption. Sure there is a bad apple here in there that either kills Palestinians for the heck of it, or gives orders to his subordinates. However look at Americans, are they all bad because a few bad ones decided to torture Iraqis? Is Click bad because Brits decided to join in on the torture.

That's a confession of guilt, by the way. Count the head and neck shots.
That is not a confession of guilt. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying I'll believe your "most" statement even if you can prove less than 50%, just merely because the situation is so murky. I personally am nowhere near Israel/Palestine and can't count the neck and head wounds, judging by where you are, neither can you. However you made the accusation, so the burden of proof is on you. I'm telling you that I think you're lying when you say that most palestinian kids that are killed are killed by snipers. Prove to me that you are not. Show me a reputable news source that says "most palestinian children are killed by sniper fire" or "more than 200/300(whatever number) of dead children investigated had neck and head wounds"


INFANTICIDE.
Yes, killing of children is infanticide. Both sides currently practice it. Live with it, or take some constructive changes to ameliorate the situation.

You must be so proud.
You have no idea what I feel. Don't even assume to do so. Unlike some I'm not filled by hate and don't want to see any people die.
Now tell me how you feel when you see Israelis die in a suicide attack plotted by terrorists? Do you do a happy dance, or do you cheer on the inside. Or do you have a shred of empathy left and actually mourn the useless deaths of innocents? Maybe that empathy only covers people with Palestinian DNA....

-TVK

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You have no idea what I feel. Don't even assume to do so. Unlike some I'm not filled by hate and don't want to see any people die.
Now tell me how you feel when you see Israelis die in a suicide attack plotted by terrorists? Do you do a happy dance, or do you cheer on the inside. Or do you have a shred of empathy left and actually mourn the useless deaths of innocents? Maybe that empathy only covers people with Palestinian DNA....

Sorry, I had to repeat it in case some fool at the TMF police decided it was worthy of a pull ( I am certain it will be reported)

Mark
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That is not a confession of guilt. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying I'll believe your "most" statement even if you can prove less than 50%, just merely because the situation is so murky. I personally am nowhere near Israel/Palestine and can't count the neck and head wounds, judging by where you are, neither can you.

Here's a source that provides the information.

American Educational Trust

AET, in conjunction with Americans for Middle East Understanding (AMEU), Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel (JPPI), and Black Voices for Peace (BVFP), published the two booklets “Who Will Save the Children?” and “Remember These Children,” and maintains the Web site, http://www.rememberthesechildren.org , to further educate the American public about the realities of the situation in Palestine and Israel.

Click on the URL http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/ and then click on “Children Remembered.”

About the statistics:

IN ANY CONFLICT, the death of innocent noncombatants is deplorable, and lamented by all. It is the death of children, however, that troubles us the most, for children are seen to be innocent in a way adults are not.
Since September 29, 2000, when the current Palestinian intifada erupted, through October 21st, 2005, at least 707 Palestinian and 123 Israeli youth under the age of 18 have become victims of the violence in Israel and the occupied territories.
Remember These Children lists each of these 821 deaths. Arranged chronologically by date of death, each entry includes the child's name, hometown, how the child was killed, and, where available, the location of the fatal injury. The documentation, though painful, conveys the personal reality of these terrible statistics. The waste in human life—of hope and future promise—is almost too great to contemplate.
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Here's a source that provides the information.

Alright, that is a horrible website (as in the subject matter, not the site itself). Death of children is hard to read.
I accept all suggestions what a person in US (or UK for Click) can do to stop this cycle of violence. I would gladly do quite a bit to see peace in that area. Yes I'd do it for purely selfish reasons, I don't want my family over there to suffer or live in fear.

NOTE: any options should preclude violence, as I don't really believe that you can stop violence by more violence.



-TVK

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Arranged chronologically by date of death, each entry includes the child's name, hometown, how the child was killed, and, where available, the location of the fatal injury. Th


Notice how detailed they are in regards to Palestinian casualties. Where are they getting their figures from? Do they have local representatives? do they actually catalogue every single casualty they report on? how do they verify the shots? Does anyone actually spend the time and go through autopsy reports?

It's one think to be shot by IDF snipers and another to be shot as a result of stray bullets or being caught in a crossfire. I've seen footage of shootouts in urban areas where the terrorists simply fire behind cover without looking while children are playing by. Some even under the protection of children.

here are some of the questionable stats I raised when this link was brought up yet again. Consider the point blank murder of the pregnant settler and her 4 daughters, one younger than 2 years. Why didn't they specify the means and the shot type. From my recollection, they were shot in the head, point blank range. Why aren't they specifying kids in discos having their limbs blown off or decapitated as a result of suicide bombing. Do only Palestinian headshots matter?

When Palestinians shoot Israeli civilians, it is categorized as "civilian gunfire", when IDF soldiers shoot teens throwing bombs at them , you get "died by an IDF bullet to the head/neck". why is that?

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23634485

Some posters pretty much summed up the death sentence imposed on the woman and her children quite nicely.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20745725


Mark
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<Could you possibly be more disingenuous? You've seen it- AND RESPONDED TO IT- many, many times.

No I didn't see it and I didn't respond to it. The only thing I saw was a case of ONE child.

That's a lie. Anyway, let me help you out here. I started a thread about the following and you proceeded to tell us how much you cared about the 1/7 of these shameless murders committed by Palestinians.

http://www.rememberthesechildren.com/remember2000.html

That's the link that gives specifics in the murders of 707 Palestinian and 123 Israeli children.

And by the way, the sponsors of this site are listed here:

http://www.rememberthesechildren.com/about.html

"JPPI {Buff: Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel] is a Washington, D.C.-based group of American Jews who believe that a just, comprehensive, and lasting peace in Palestine and Israel is attainable through negotiations based on international law and the implementation of relevant United Nations (UN) resolutions. Israel claims to speak on behalf of world Jewry through its policies and actions. Therefore, we believe that as Jews outside of Israel, we have both a right and obligation to speak out in favor of an Israel that pursues a reconciliatory, ethical, just, and democratic path both in its domestic and foreign policies."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The American Educational Trust (AET) is a non-profit foundation incorporated in Washington, DC by retired U.S. foreign service officers to provide the American public with balanced and accurate information concerning U.S. relations with Middle Eastern states. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"AMEU was founded 34 years ago by Americans whose professions in medicine, church ministry, archaeology and diplomacy had taken them to the Middle East.

AMEU strives to create in the United States a deeper appreciation of the culture, history and current events in that area."

You'll have a tough time arguing that they're anti-semitic, especially the Jewish sponsors, but you'll try.

Now since you're having problems with memory, or don't even bother to read before you respond, let me help you with just a few of so many from the site:

Khaled Bazyan, 15,
of Nablus,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Muhammad Dawood, 15,
of el-Bireh,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Sara Hassan, 18 months,
of Nablus,
killed in car by Israeli settler gunfire to head.

Samer Tabanja, 10,
of Nablus,
killed by Israeli forces helicopter gunfire to head.


Sami Taramsi, 17,
of Gaza,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Wael Qattawi, 16,
of Balata camp,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Husam Hamshari, 16,
of Tulkarm,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Ammar Rifai, 17,
of Maghazi camp,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Yusif Khalaf, 17,
of Rafah camp,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Sami Abu Jazar, 12,
of Rafah,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Muayad Abu Jawarish, 14,
of Aida camp, Bethlehem,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Majid Hawamdeh, 15,
of el-Bireh,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Wael Emad, 16,
of Jabalyah camp,
killed by Israeli forces rubber coated bullet to head.

Ashraf Habayeb, 15,
of Nablus,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Ala Jawabra, 14,
of Hebron,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Husni Najjar, 14,
of Rafah camp,
killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

That's just for the first 31 days in the year 2000. The site lists the dead for seven years. Read. You'll be so proud.

Current score:

707 to 123

There are no good guys on any side murdering children, and that score clearly deprives Israel of its absurd claim to the moral high ground. These killers of children will ALL reside in the lowest level of hell, even the majority on your side.
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http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23775128

some statistics for you. Seems that some self-selection was involved in the age distribution of those palestinians that were killed...at least strictly from the statistical side.

However notice the randomness of attacks from palestinians. They don't care who they kill, as long as it's an Israeli.

on a somewhat tangent topic:

What is your goal in all this buff? What do you hope to achieve with calling me and Mark and other "zionists" on this board child killers? or supporters of child killers or however it is you choose to slander us? None of us have any political ties to Israel, we can't change policy, much less any actual behavior of any Isreali soldier. Do you expect to convince us that Isreal is evil? Do you expect us to go blow ourselves up, or some random reader on the board? Do you want us to go to Isreal and chain ourselves to bulldozers that are taking down palestinian settlements? Before I argue with you, I'd very much like to know what you want from me, and your other readers.

-TVK
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<Do you expect to convince us that Isreal is evil?>

Uh, TVK, if you lived in Israel, why can't you spell it correctly?
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.
You will be able to recommend 2 more posts today. (explain this)

<Do you expect to convince us that Isreal is evil?>

Uh, TVK, if you lived in Israel, why can't you spell it correctly?
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Uh, TVK, if you lived in Israel, why can't you spell it correctly?

a) Hebrew uses different letters, so what's your point?
b) I type quickly and make mistakes. Guess that makes me a supporter of the child killers huh?


What lies do I tell that you need to dispell? I do admit that over 700 children have died in the infantada (is that how you spell it?). We however disagree on the manner and the root cause of these deaths. You blame the Isreali brutal vicious killers for it. I blame the conflict for ALL the children that have died. Look at the other side of your website, they are children too, feel bad for them too if you care so much about the death of a child.

That is the basic difference between us Buff. I want to see the world a better place for everybody. I wish to see a land where a palestinian and a jew can live together without killing. You just wish to see all the Isrealis kicked out of their homes and sent who knows where, you don't really care as long as they're gone. Should we be grateful that you don't outright wish to murder everyone? Should we call you humane?

Look at your links, look at my links, and please please please look at the sheer number of deaths. Don't you wish it all to stop, peacefully? Of course now you will accuse me that it's easy for me to say since Isrealis will not have peace until they get to keep the land, but that is also true for Palestinians, it's all about land for them as well. What any reasonable human being should do is try to find a way for them to co-exist, in a manner that benefits both. Killing doesn't benefit anybody right now. You know how you stop the fighting? You teach your children peace and tolerance. You teach your child that resistance must be peaceful. You show him Gandhi and not Islamic Jihad. You show him mother Theresa and not the Hamas woman that sent her 3 sons to martyrdom. You teach them that everyone is human and deserves to live in peace, that all misunderstanding can be solved in a peaceful manner. That is what I plan to teach my children, are you going to do the same buff? and you click? and you mark?

-TVK
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That is what I plan to teach my children, are you going to do the same buff? and you click? and you mark?


I don't need to teach them that. They'll simply follow by example. My wife won't even let my 5year old play with guns as she thinks it will lead to violence. I can't see them learning otherwise. I agree with you 100%.

If you can, send the link to buff to my article showing him why Palestinian children die, with the pics and all. He won't be able to pretend he didn't read it.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23690586

There's only one thing we can say : TEACH PEACE AND LOVE TO YOUR CHILDREN.

Mark
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<Do you expect to convince us that Isreal is evil?>

Uh, TVK, if you lived in Israel, why can't you spell it correctly?


I can't believe someone actually recced this. LOL!

Mark
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One other link I think buff should read - bumped into it from the search pane.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=17500332

Mark
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<You just wish to see all the Isrealis kicked out of their homes and sent who knows where>

Link? You have no clue what I think, so you make stuff up. Hint: If I were citing Mossad links, I'd probably have a prejudice in the matter.

Whatever, what I said to begin this remains true: there are hundreds of Palestinian children killed by head and neck shots. Those are snipers. That's infanticide. And so Israel has no claim to the moral high ground, to the claim that all peace requires is for the Palestinians to let Israel go on its course. It's course is infanticide. Both sides have to stop, a point to which you always return after being gutted by the facts. Insidfe of 24 hours you'll again be telling us that it's all the fault of the Palestinians who have no right to the land on which their families have lived for centuries.

You must be so proud.
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Damnit buff, try some comprehension for a change.

Mark
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