No. of Recommendations: 17
It's criminal how much the LTC insurance industry is lying to you.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-28/this-is-t...

First the good news. The median stay in a nursing home was 10 days, and the amount a 57-year-old needed to set aside to cover average lifetime out-of-pocket spending on nursing home care was $7,344, according to the study. Hurd is senior principal researcher and director at the RAND Center for the Study of Aging.

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intercst
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No. of Recommendations: 7
First the good news. The median stay in a nursing home was 10 days, and the amount a 57-year-old needed to set aside to cover average lifetime out-of-pocket spending on nursing home care was $7,344, according to the study. Hurd is senior principal researcher and director at the RAND Center for the Study of Aging.

It would be great to be average. My dad spent nine years in a nursing home, with a monthly cost exceeding $10,000 the last few years. His LTC policy turned out to be essential.

Bill
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No. of Recommendations: 4
the amount a 57-year-old needed to set aside to cover average lifetime out-of-pocket spending on nursing home care was $7,344

Medicare covers "rehabilitation," which is why reimbursed nursing home stays tend to be fairly short. Those are the patients that nursing homes welcome. Patients frequently check out before Medicare coverage ends, whether they are really ready to live on their own or not.

Most long-term patients are on Medicaid, which doesn't cover the expenses for first-rate care. Those patients may have very low "out of pocket" expenses also, but that is not the whole story. You have to impoverish yourself to qualify for Medicaid coverage.

So fine, put away only $7000 to cover nursing home care, if you are pretty sure that you will only need a couple of weeks of rehabilitation covered by Medicare. I have no idea how you would know that by age 57, but ok.
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No. of Recommendations: 4
First the good news. The median stay in a nursing home was 10 days, and the amount a 57-year-old needed to set aside to cover average lifetime out-of-pocket spending on nursing home care was $7,344, according to the study. Hurd is senior principal researcher and director at the RAND Center for the Study of Aging.

It would be great to be average. My dad spent nine years in a nursing home, with a monthly cost exceeding $10,000 the last few years. His LTC policy turned out to be essential.

Bill


Here's the problem. The "Insurance" is too expensive to be considered affordable by most people, even the pretty darn well-off. And bleeding yourself to afford it isn't affording it. And despite some people's sincerely positive experiences with the insurance companies, the whole landscape is too variable and unreliable to even consider it "insurance."

As far as the actual care part, that, like nearly every other aspect of health care is, again, too expensive to be considered affordable by most people, even the pretty darn well-off. And bleeding yourself to afford it isn't affording it.

Someone may check these numbers. I'm pretty sure I got the from this forum in the first place.
The --median--stay in a nursing home is something like 2 yrs. Ergo every day after 2 yrs your chances of going another day drops every day. My mother recently passed away at I believe the 28th month mark.

I plan to be able to fund at least TWO (2) years myself. I will likely be able to defray at least some additional cost after that barring some kind of wipe-out. After that they can just accept Medicaid for the portion my SS and pension won't cover and the odds are I'll be gone sooner rather than later. If I beat the odds there's nothing either of us can do about it.

They know they are already charging too much. Probably by several orders of magnitude. They know they are making their money off of you in the first 2 yrs. After than Medicaid + your SS pays for their costs plus a small profit I'm willing to bet.

If I only need a field goal I'm not going to kill myself trying to score 70 points.
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Medicare covers "rehabilitation," which is why reimbursed nursing home stays tend to be fairly short. Those are the patients that nursing homes welcome. Patients frequently check out before Medicare coverage ends, whether they are really ready to live on their own or not.
___________

My FIL was in and out of the hospital several times during the last 2 of his 93 years. The hospital would discharge him for rehab at a nursing home. The nursing home costs for rehab were covered for 21 days each time, IIRC. The nursing homes available for these short term stays was not universally good, in fact, some were horrible and he couldn't wait to leave. Any therapy he received was minimal.

When he was discharged, he went home where my MIL tried valiantly to care for him with the aid of sons and daughters and sometimes with the aid of a visiting nurse.

He might have benefitted financially from a LTC policy, but he would have been miserable in a home. He was blind (macular degeneration) and not ambulatory due to muscular deterioration from a prior extended hospital stay for bypass surgery. His mind was good but trapped in a failing body.
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No. of Recommendations: 8
The best quip I've seen re LTC insurance is "If you can afford it, you don't need it. If you can't afford it, you can't get it either."

CHC
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No. of Recommendations: 3
It seems the article only addresses nursing home stays, which to me means a skilled care facility. If that is indeed the case, I really don't have a problem with the numbers in the article. LTCI can kick in as Medicare stops certifying additional treatment periods when progress is not being made by the patient. At that point a long-term care plan (90 days plus) is often created to help with things such as setting up meds, bathing, dressing, cooking, etc (ADLs). Often occupational or physical therapy is included, but costs for these are no longer covered by Medicare.

What I have not seen mentioned in either of the past two threads are other benefits from most LTCI sold now. When a long-term care plan is created, services may be provided in the patient's home, in an adult day care, in an assisted living facility...costs of equipment to assist the patient are often covered items. Care under policies now is often paid to casual caregivers as well as agency personnel. A feature of many LTCI policies is inclusion of a professional care coordinator, who can help oversee both the plan and how caregivers are executing their responsibility (hopefully curbing some abuse).

My experience is seeing the need for long-term care take the health and well being of the care-giver as well as the patient. LTCI can help mitigate that dynamic, along with the spend-down required prior to applying for Medicaid...and what happens to the non-care-receiving spouse in terms of money and lifestyle?

I believe further research looking into broader use of benefits from LTCI would yield a significant difference in results of benefits received and out-of-pocket costs reduced by owning a policy. I don't deny that it takes tenacity to move through the elimination period to actually begin receiving benefits.

As previously mentioned, the state "partnership" programs can help protect assets for the non-care-receiving spouse as benefits are received...a meaningful benefit even if the states are primarily trying to save Medicaid dollars. Their motivation doesn't make the benefit less tangible.

Policy design now includes limited-pay policies, i.e., pay premiums for 10 years and you're done. Additional policy design includes return of premium (non-taxable)-not reduced by benefits paid-which can be an effective estate transfer tool. Yet another benefit for employees of C-corporations are 100% tax deductible premiums-the rest of us may get a deduction in the medical cost section of our itemized deduction form (this could be greatly improved!).

Gary
disclosure, I own LTCI
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