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No. of Recommendations: 15
The Supreme Court signaled a major shift in its approach to coronavirus-related restrictions late Wednesday, voting 5-4 to bar New York state from reimposing limits on religious gatherings.

The emergency rulings, issued just before midnight, were the first significant indication of a rightward shift in the court since President Donald Trump’s newest appointee — Justice Amy Coney Barrett — last month filled the seat occupied by liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who died in September.


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/26/supreme-court-relig...

Toldja Amy Coney Barr-ette was a Federalist/Christofascist thug. (That goes for Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh, too. Thank goodness Roberts occasionally has a useful brain).

Now the rest of us have to suffer becasue religious organizations can completely ignore public health measures about size of gatherings, social distancing, and masking. Frankly, I don't care that much if they infect and kill each other. But I live in a town infested with church/temple-goers. These people spread contagion to the rest of us, as careful as we may be. We have to buy stuff, ship stuff, gas up the car (best argument for a Tesla!), reside in a facility, etc. Where we'll be confronted by the virus particles of church/temple-going cashiers, cleaning ladies, teachers, pharmacy techs, nurse's & aides, anesthesiologists, prison wardens, and so forth.

If my grnadchildren can attend school, gymnastics, orchestra, choir, art class, and theatre group on Zoom, if I can keep in touch w/family by phone & FaceTime, so can your religious org hold services online.

Note that I have no objection to religious services per se (w=ell, most of them-), but if other institutions can do their thing online, so can your priest/minister/rabbi/imam.

Today I am thankful for liberal judges and justices. Too bad they are so few in number now.
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Out of curiosity, I wonder what other laws/regulations churches are exempted from following. Can they ignore building codes, sanitation laws, fire codes, etc?
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A horrible ruling that has nothing to do with religion but endangers others in society, especially healthcare workers who will have to deal with more bodies as they pile up in the ER.

Another case of extreme judicial dogma overriding plain old fashioned common sense.

AW
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Where we'll be confronted by the virus particles of church/temple-going cashiers, cleaning ladies, teachers, pharmacy techs, nurse's & aides, anesthesiologists, prison wardens, and so forth.
...
Note that I have no objection to religious services per se (w=ell, most of them-), but if other institutions can do their thing online, so can your priest/minister/rabbi/imam.


The current outbreak in my area was seeded by a church that took no precautions and is now suing the county government after being ordered to close. (The lawsuit was filed before the Supremes ruled that New York cannot impose limits on churches--thank you ACB.) Yet my synagogue hasn't held a single in-person event since the middle of March and will not hold any in the foreseeable future, if ever (some members now oppose opening if there is any risk of anything, and there is always some risk of something).

However, some streams of Judaism prohibit using electronics on the Sabbath, so you are demanding that adherents of them give up Shabbat and holy day services altogether, or surrender other civil rights. That kind of thinking might go over better on Campfire or Conservative Fools (if you think they don't go in for religious hatred, use specifically Muslim worship as the example), or Atheist Fools.
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Out of curiosity, I wonder what other laws/regulations churches are exempted from following. Can they ignore building codes, sanitation laws, fire codes, etc?

Not under current law, with some very limited exceptions. I used to serve on the board of a synagogue where the town fire marshal allowed candles--ordinarily prohibited in public buildings--when required for a religious observance, but only the minimum number adequate for the observance. In other jurisdictions, more candles might have been allowed. No other exceptions from building, sanitation, fire, or other health and safety requirements.

It wouldn't surprise me now if churches started suing to be excused from having fire exits, capacity limits, etc. If Typhoid Mary were still alive, she could have a job cooking for churches!
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Out of curiosity, I wonder what other laws/regulations churches are exempted from following. Can they ignore building codes, sanitation laws, fire codes, etc?

I think we know what Amy would do. And it is most definitely not WJWD.
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alstroemeria…if other institutions can do their thing online, so can your priest/minister/rabbi/imam.

What?! How can the sheep pass the offering plate online.


proton
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However, some streams of Judaism prohibit using electronics on the Sabbath, so you are demanding that adherents of them give up Shabbat and holy day services altogether, or surrender other civil rights.

False claim. Their *choice* to not use electronics is a just that--a choice. They CHOOSE to live where they are not able to get together easily in small groups. They are, and always have been, aware of these limitations because they CHOSE them. Choices have consequences. The fact their CHOICES restrict their coming together as many small groups but only as a single large group means they face dying in large numbers. Basically, they are CHOOSING suicide. Which is NOT approved by God. Either way, they violate God's law *as they see it*. Be separate and LIVE? Or be together and DIE? We already know the answer to that question. God permits medical assistance/medical care to those who need it--even on Shabbat. Why? The rationale is simple: It is better to miss Shabbat a time or few and then recover, when you will be able to celebrate many more Shabbats.

Thus, the "strict" believers would not permit medical care on Shabbat because doing ANY work on that day would be *strictly* prohibited. They would die off VERY quickly as a result of their CHOICE.
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How can the sheep pass the offering plate online.

Set up a giving website, good for weekly/monthly/intermittent donations. If ActBlue can do it, so can, er, ReligionPurple. I bet such apps already exist.
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What?! How can the sheep pass the offering plate online.


proton


They can do what we do- provide for online giving.

Or send a check.

We closed the building in March and are still rockin’along.

Adapt or die.
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No. of Recommendations: 10
alstroemeria: Toldja Amy Coney Barr-ette was a Federalist/Christofascist thug. (That goes for Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh, too. Thank goodness Roberts occasionally has a useful brain).

Now the rest of us have to suffer becasue religious organizations can completely ignore public health measures about size of gatherings, social distancing, and masking.



Now, now, now... justices Thomas, Barrette, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh are just returning us to the religious practice of human sacrifice.
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...I wonder what other laws/regulations churches are exempted from following. Can they ignore building codes, sanitation laws, fire codes, etc?

I guess if Trump can ignore reality, why wouldn't his religious followers be allowed to ignore Covid, building safety, sanitation and fire? Maybe if they ignore enough real threats, many may die and we might achieve herd immunity . . . from Trumpism.
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Now the rest of us have to suffer becasue religious organizations can completely ignore public health measures about size of gatherings, social distancing, and masking.

Where's your post complaining about riots? I can't find it.

-Donna
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Where's your post complaining about riots? I can't find it.

Not too many riots were conducted by crowds gathered inside for a long period of time while singing.
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Not too many riots were conducted by crowds gathered inside for a long period of time while singing.

True. Riots were conducted in outdoor spaces. Similar to Trump rallies. I don't complain about either.

-Donna
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"Another case of extreme judicial dogma overriding plain old fashioned common sense."

It's the GOP way.

Ken
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However, some streams of Judaism prohibit using electronics on the Sabbath, so you are demanding that adherents of them give up Shabbat and holy day services altogether, or surrender other civil rights.

I was taught in religious instruction that health and life take precedent over religious practices. In other words, if for health reasons you needed to take medicine or food on Yom Kippur, it was not only ok, it’s what you were SUPPOSED to do.

As I recall, there was no exception for gathering in large crowds during a pandemic that threatened yours and others lives.

AW
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Where's your post complaining about riots? I can't find it.

I haven't heard anyone on these boards supporting riots of any kind. Many supported peaceful protests which have mostly involved mask wearing individuals in outdoor settings.

In case you haven't been following the Covid-19 medical developments (or have only been following them via right wing echo chamber lies and misinformation) the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as contagious when people are outdoors as when they are indoors. So protests are not nearly as likely to turn into superspreader events as events that are indoors.

Churches are especially bad because they tend to involve people close to each other (often hip to hip in pews) who are singing and expelling a lot of respiratory droplets and aerosol into the air. Churches also do not tend to have the kind of ventilation that hospitals require. Less air flow and no HEPA filtering of the air that does flow while people are expelling a lot of air and droplets leads to a potentially very unsafe situation.

I assume your question was intended to imply that churches being allowed to ignore guidelines was no different than peaceful protest marches and events (although you did use the right wing lying spin that equates protests to riots rather than show any acknowledgement of reality at all). And further that you wanted to imply that those that supported protests but do not support Church loop holes to following medical advice were being hypocritical. That simply isn't true. There are far more differences between these two than similarities and your comparison is simply not valid.

But for the record, I avoided protest marches and events because I didn't want to take even that risk. I did participate in an archaeology field trip with 10 people a few weeks ago. That was entirely outside. Masks and social distancing rules were established for everyone. But I won't participate in another until we have gotten past this virus because there were too many instances of accidental bumping into one another and near contact even among that cooperating group. Remember: no mask is 100% effective at filtering out Corona virus. Archaeology enthusiasts will tend to have their head down looking for artifacts on the ground as they meander around a site, so they are not paying too much attention to the people around them doing the same thing. And when someone picks up an artifact of significant rarity or importance, there is a tendency for everyone to run over and group around the artifact to look at it. That's not really safe.
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John Fabian Witt, law and history professor at Yale wrote a short Twitter thread on this decision.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1331988697290579970.html
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Where's your post complaining about riots? I can't find it.

.........

+ There isn’t evidence that Black Lives Matter protests have led to a noticeable increase in COVID-19 cases, despite early concerns from health officials.

+ The reasons for the lack of transmission likely have to do with the protesters being outside in the wind and sun and most of them wearing masks.

+ People who attend other outdoor events, such as going to the beach or a ball game, tend to share indoor facilities like bathrooms, shops, and restaurants.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/black-lives-matter-pr...
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I note that DD and my grandchildren, who live in Harlem, joined a protest march last spring. Virtually everyone was masked--in contrast to idol-worshiping science-deniers at trump rallies.
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I think they made the right decision in this case. It's a 1st Amendment right and the threshold should be higher than what is applied to a bar or bike shop.
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In case you haven't been following the Covid-19 medical developments

I have followed. It's ridiculous.

Did we all line up in cars to see if we had the flu last year, or any previous years? I'm in the midst of a major house renovation. Not one person coming into house has worn a mask. Not one person has had COVID...of course, none of us are sitting in car line 4-6 hours a day to be tested. So, maybe we all had it, with no symptoms. Same as any flu or virus.

No one in the heart of Tampa is wearing a mask unless they are walking in a store that requires one. Outside of stores we are mask-free. Thank goodness.

-Donna
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No. of Recommendations: 9
No one in the heart of Tampa is wearing a mask unless they are walking in a store that requires one. Outside of stores we are mask-free.

and this is the result of that behavior: https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&mid=%2Fm%2F...

I think I will take my Covid medical advice from elsewhere.
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and this is the result of that behavior: https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&mid=%2Fm%2F......

I think I will take my Covid medical advice from elsewhere.


People are lined up to be tested. Many positive. Few deaths. CDC is even saying (they change opinion daily) that quarantine time should be cut in half. This was a test to see if we would obey. Most did.

-Donna
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fancifree: CDC is even saying (they change opinion daily) that quarantine time should be cut in half. This was a test to see if we would obey.


Well, no, that's not what they're saying.

Here's reportedly what they're considering:

Dr. Henry Walke, the CDC’s incident manager for Covid-19 response, said the agency is now finalizing those new guidelines to recommend a quarantine period for seven to 10 days with a negative Covid-19 test, according to The Wall Street Journal. Agency officials are still determining the exact length of the quarantine and what type of test would be needed to end it, the Journal reported on Tuesday.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/25/the-cdc-is-expected-to-short...
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The Supreme Court thinks liquor stores and houses of worship are the same in the eyes of COVID-19. That is just flat out wrong. As super spreaders, houses of worship are similar to a Biogen conference. This argument was made to the Supreme Court, but it was ignored by the majority, some of whom might be suffering from a victim complex.
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People are lined up to be tested. Many positive. Few deaths


Few deaths? three 911's a week deaths due to Covid-19
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Dr. Henry Walke, the CDC’s incident manager for Covid-19 response, said the agency is now finalizing those new guidelines to recommend a quarantine period for seven to 10 days with a negative Covid-19 test, according to The Wall Street Journal. Agency officials are still determining the exact length of the quarantine and what type of test would be needed to end it, the Journal reported on Tuesday.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/25/the-cdc-is-expected-to-short......


I highly recommend you quarantine, wear a mask or whatever makes you comfortable. I'll do the same.

I wear a mask in stores that require me to do so. Always wonder why if other people's mask work so well, why do I need one...but, I'm fine with playing the game.

-Donna
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People are lined up to be tested. Many positive. Few deaths

Yes. Few "true" COVID deaths. How many flu deaths so far this year?

-Donna
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Few "true" COVID deaths. How many flu deaths so far this year?


2019-2020 influenza season, 22,000 deaths.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html#:~:text=....

257,800 Covid-19 deaths in the United States in the last nine months
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257,800 Covid-19 deaths in the United States in the last nine months. How many of those who died had other health problems?

The flu and other viruses claim lives. COVID is no worse than H1N1 or other viruses or flu(s). Supposedly there is a vaccine soon to be available for those who wish to take it...

-Donna
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COVID is no worse than H1N1 or other viruses or flu-Donna


“When you ask me about frustration, which borders on pain, it’s that either people don’t want to look at the data or they look at the data and they say it’s fake. No, it isn’t fake. … This is a global issue. I tell the people who deny or think that this is nothing, do you mean that every single country in Europe is doing the same thing, is making things up? They’re not. I mean, it’s so obvious. If the coronavirus was as deadly as the flu, fewer than 5,000 Americans would have died.”

Anthony Fauci  Nov. 19, 2020

And by the Way, Anthony Fauci is one of the few medical doctors of the twentieth-century that has cured a disease. Before Anthony Fauci developed a cure for vasculitis this disease was terminal for 98% of patients, today that number is close to zero.
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People are lined up to be tested. Many positive. Few deaths.

One of the really big mistakes anti-maskers and Trump culters make when they talk about Covid-19 is that they act like the results of contacting the virus are digital" 0- you die (fairly low probability of that), or 1- you live and everything is hunky dory.

In reality, many who are not asymptomatic will suffer terrible nausea, vomiting and diarrhea for several days to weeks. About 20% will be hospitalized for days to weeks. As many as 75% (including the asymptomatic) will suffer long-term organ damage to their heart, lungs and brain. But medical science and heroic medical personnel have reduced the actual death rate to single digit percentages. I imagine most people would like to avoid these other problems too, but I guess if you don't care about your comfort and health, only whether you are alive . . .
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Interesting article from John Hopkins (they posted last Sunday, then deleted):
https://notthebee.com/article/a-few-days-ago-johns-hopkins-p...

-Donna
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Did we all line up in cars to see if we had the flu last year, or any previous years?

We aren't "all" lining up! The only time I was tested was when I arrived in the ER last June with a badly broken leg.

I'm in the midst of a major house renovation. Not one person coming into house has worn a mask. Not one person has had COVID

You may do as you wish in your own home. Me, I've had various tradesmen, PT and OT, a personal aide and cleaning ladies spending time in my house since last March. Every one of them was masked when they rang my doorbell.

You may be secondarily acquainted with people who caught covid. 3 of my own relatives (2 cousins in Los Angeles and my aunt in Queens), 3 relatives of my various service providers, several staff and residents in my mohter's assisted living and now nursing home.

No one in the heart of Tampa is wearing a mask unless they are walking in a store that requires one. Outside of stores we are mask-free. Thank goodness.

The positivity rate in Hillsborough is over 8%. Good luck!
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Interesting article from John Hopkins (they posted last Sunday, then deleted)

You can choose to be as gullible as you like, but this is not an article from John Hopkins Medical Center. It is an article about a webinar from a person who is a director of masters degrees in Applied Economics. The first graphic is credited to a poster named "Doc Holliday". If you search and find the webinar announcement, it says the webinar is based on "very simple statistics", but good luck trying to see that. The links that claim to get you to new data are broken links that do not appear to have anything to do with John Hopkins if the links were not broken.

I could list several other discrepancies and bogus issues with the article, but if you want to believe fake news, that's what you are going to do.
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The article was published this week by the American Institute of Physics.

“The highly efficacious face mask, such as surgical masks with an estimated efficacy of around 70%, could lead to the eradication of the pandemic if at least 70% of the residents use such masks in public consistently,” the scientists, including Sanjay Kumar from the National University of Singapore, wrote in the study.


https://kutv.com/news/local/study-if-70-of-people-wore-masks...
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