No. of Recommendations: 6
Solid state isn’t out yet, but some pretty conservative companies are working on them.

That is not what interests me. At sub 100 dollars a kilowatt hour installed, a battery system can replace a generator back up power system. (If you want my reasoning let me know, it is long and boring)

One the telecom and server farms go to battery vice generator, the stage is set for electricity energy arbitrage. This is a very big deal.

Cheers
Qazulight

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/cellphones-cars-these...

As for price, a recent study by the Boston Consulting Group estimated lithium-ion batteries will drop to $70 a kilowatt-hour within five years. But solid state, said analyst Xavier Mosquet, could be 20 percent cheaper
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At sub 100 dollars a kilowatt hour installed, a battery system can replace a generator back up power system. (If you want my reasoning let me know, it is long and boring)

My concern there: if a power outage is lasting longer than you anticipated, your remote site with a backup generator can be recharged by a pickup truck with a row of gas cans in the back end. (Or of course a purpose-designed fuel-hauler.) One person can drive out there and empty the gas cans into the site's fuel tank. What does it take to recharge the battery system, when there's no electricity to the site?
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No. of Recommendations: 11
What does it take to recharge the battery system, when there's no electricity to the site?

Hmmm. One big truck with a combo BIG battery connected to an ICE generator visiting those battery systems one at a time? Or some variation of same.


Battery storage of electrical energy, across all types of systems, is a momentous game changer.

I just bought a small heavy USB back-up battery that can keep all my electronics (phone, computer, iPad, watch) going for a full two days. I am recently installed another battery sufficient to keep power flowing to my internet microwave dish, routers, etc., for two days.

Living as I do in the countryside of Mexico with intermittent power from the power monopoly, this changes my life.


david fb
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In Puerto Rica they don't even have the "pickup truck with a row of gas cans in the back end". You can't economically design for every eventuality.

intercst
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My concern there: if a power outage is lasting longer than you anticipated, your remote site with a backup generator can be recharged by a pickup truck with a row of gas cans in the back end. (Or of course a purpose-designed fuel-hauler.) One person can drive out there and empty the gas cans into the site's fuel tank. What does it take to recharge the battery system, when there's no electricity to the site?

It has been my experience that a diesel generator that has had excellent maintenance and low usage will require more than fuel after 100 hours of operation.

In other words, bringing a full blown generator to the site and charging the batteries will be about the same in resources as having technicians show up on site and change the oil and fuel filters.

It is a little more complicated than that, but my experience in disaster situations makes me believe that a 100 hour battery back up would be as reliable or more than the standard telecom generator/battery plant systems that are in use today.

At 100 dollars a kilowatt hour installed, the capital cost compared the genset is compelling.

Cheers
Qazulight
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david fb,

You might be interested in this link.

http://diypowerwalls.com/

People are using used batteries to build Power Walls.

The Geeks of the future man! All we need is a VW micro bus and a geodesic dome home.

Cheers
Qazulight
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What does it take to recharge the battery system, when there's no electricity to the site?

Hmmm. One big truck with a combo BIG battery connected to an ICE generator visiting those battery systems one at a time? Or some variation of same.


Sounds likely to take considerably more time on-site than refilling a gas tank.

Also sounds like a big chunk of expensive specialized (and special-order) equipment with little utility outside of emergency/disaster situations. Pickups are useful for lots of purposes, and gas cans are relatively cheap; both are available off the shelf.
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Pickups are useful for lots of purposes, and gas cans are relatively cheap; both are available off the shelf.</U>

What's cheap and what's on the shelf changes. In a few years, gasoline won't be cheap or easy to obtain. And all pickups will be electric. Likely some pickups will have main batteries that can provide electricity for external needs.

-IGU-
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Thanks Qaz, a great link, and delightful Aussie accented geek talk!


david fb
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My concern there: if a power outage is lasting longer than you anticipated, your remote site with a backup generator can be recharged by a pickup truck with a row of gas cans in the back end. (Or of course a purpose-designed fuel-hauler.) One person can drive out there and empty the gas cans into the site's fuel tank. What does it take to recharge the battery system, when there's no electricity to the site?

Depends on what your application is. As I SWAG, I'd say the large majority of emergency back up power systems today are already batteries. The reason I say that is almost all cell towers have battery back up power systems. A much smaller number also are equipped with emergency generators.

Most commercial buildings (and most residential buildings too, for that matter) have no onsite emergency power generation at all. If your power goes out at home, you might be inconvenienced, but for most people the cost of back up power isn't worth the occasional, short term need.

Larger commercial buildings like office and retail, shopping malls, etc. often have emergency power, but their generators are typically only powerful enough to run emergency lighting and life safety systems, and then only for a hours. The idea is to allow people time to safely exit the building, not to keep the building operational. Most power outages only last a few hours so that's all they plan for in situations like that.

Critical operations like data centers have both battery back up for immediate power and emergency generators if they have longer term shortages. These are often natural gas fired as are many e-gens in places like hospitals, which eliminates the need to arrange for fueling in the event of an emergency.
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syke6,

Every site that I have worked on for telecom has had a diesel genset. We call for oil changes after every 100 hours of operation. This takes a specialist and the proper tools and supplies. Fuel can be supplied from a 100 gallon bed tank. When I was in the Houston Power crew, I filled all my small <400 gallon tanks. We typically kept then between 70 and 95 percent full so a 100 gallon tank would top them up.

I did it so I could be sure I knew the proceedure pat, and so I knew where to obtain fuel and how. Also, this exercised my pumps.

In an disaster, telecom wants to depend on no one. We learned the hard way about water. We had a water cooling tower on one of our buildings in South East Texas. When the evaporation demanded more water there was none. We had to bring in water trucks to keep the AC running.

For larger gensets with multi thousand gallon tanks, fueling them is not simple and requires a large truck. Additionally, we found that fueling under load was a very bad idea. The first weekend after Rita we had the few qualified power techs that could change fuel filters and re prime engines along with all of the diesel mechanics we could round up, chasing the fuel trucks and changing filters. There were multiple problems with this system including extended times on batteries so that the batteries started using water, lack of fuel filters as there were no places to purchase them, and closed or blocked roads that would not allow large fuel trucks to pass.

Along with that we have generally experienced 5-15 percent failure rates with gensets after 24 to 100 hours of operation. Even meticulously maintianed sets. This eats up tech time and the portable standby gensets.



Cheers
Qazulight
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