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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/buttigieg-compares-sanders...

The South Bend, Ind. mayor told high school Democrats in Nashua, N.H. that there is a “sense of anger and dissatisfaction” that comes from seeing positive economic numbers while “living like this recovery never happened.” That feeling “turns you against the system in general and then you’re more likely to want to vote to blow up the system, which could lead you to somebody like Bernie and it could lead you to somebody like Trump.”

So Bernie supporters are racist goobers? LOL
The mud throwing has begun.
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So Bernie supporters are racist goobers? LOL

It looks like the quote implies that the dissatisfaction can take two forms: one for Sanders and the other for trump. One faction is more socialist-leaning, multi-cultural and looking to government for more solutions such as healthcare, taxes and wage equity (Bernie), the other more nationalistic, protectionist and isolationist. I'll leave it up to you to decide which of these groups would be more likely to have "racist goobers" as part of its constituency, but it ain't Bernie's.

Pete
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tjscott0 asks,

<<The South Bend, Ind. mayor told high school Democrats in Nashua, N.H. that there is a “sense of anger and dissatisfaction” that comes from seeing positive economic numbers while “living like this recovery never happened.” That feeling “turns you against the system in general and then you’re more likely to want to vote to blow up the system, which could lead you to somebody like Bernie and it could lead you to somebody like Trump.”>>

So Bernie supporters are racist goobers? LOL
The mud throwing has begun.

</snip>


I didn't read that comment from Buttigieg as "mud throwing". He was just saying that a lot of people want to "blow up the system". Some of them voted for Trump, some voted for Bernie. (I voted for both.)

intercst
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The problem with blowing up the system is that anarchy, feudalism, and general chaos likely will ensue. Our system is creaking now with the Orange Bloviator in Chief. The only thing that appears to have saved our nation is the institutions that have been put in place, and civil servants often ignoring the illegal orders of the Bloviator.

Is it a Chinese proverb that says "be careful what you wish for, you might get it"?
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1poorguy writes,

The problem with blowing up the system is that anarchy, feudalism, and general chaos likely will ensue. Our system is creaking now with the Orange Bloviator in Chief. The only thing that appears to have saved our nation is the institutions that have been put in place, and civil servants often ignoring the illegal orders of the Bloviator.

Is it a Chinese proverb that says "be careful what you wish for, you might get it"?

</snip>


"You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet."

There's no question in my mind that the ignorance and incompetence of George W. Bush paved the way for for the first black president in Obama.

I expect the racism, bigotry, ignorance and innumeracy of Trump to destroy the Republican Party and make it harder for the Hillary-style Wall Street/Pharma DEMs as well. The middle-class has a chance to get a break in 2020.

intercst
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So Bernie supporters are racist goobers? LOL

I’m quite sure that’s not what he meant (and I think you know it.)

What I take is that he’s saying (some) people are frustrated and feel left out, and that makes them look for more radical solutions than a simple continuation of the past (with improvements.)

Yes, many of Trups supports are racist goobers. I don’t think so many of Bernie’s are, although I believe they are economically naive, but that is a very different thing. The “goobers” got what they wanted, by quirk of fate, and it isn’t working out so well for them.

Imports have only caused higher prices.
Mexico is not paying for the wall.
He’s closing in on Nixon for most indictments in an administration.
He plays million dollar golf every weekend.
He’s separating families and putting children in cages.
Utilities continue to close coal plants.
His cabinet officers are largely a joke.
The tax cuts went mostly to the wealthy,
and to businesses, which are not capital investing with it.
Canada, Japan, and Europe have multilateral trade agreements without us.
American farmers are taking it on the chin.
Unemployment is down, but it went down more under Obama.
The stock market is up, but it went up more under Obama.
He led his party to disaster in the 2018 midterms.
His constant tweeting undermines the Presidency.
He has attacked the FBI, the judicial branch, Congress, the free press, and more.
Government has repeatedly been shut down.
He dismissed the idea that Russia interfered with the election.
He continues to profit at his hotels by serving foreign and corporate customers.
His businesses are, to put it mildly, a sham.
His children are an embarrassment.
His wife is/was an illegal immigrant.
He had bone spurs, which vanished once Vietnam was concluded.
Manufacturing has not returned.
The wall doesn’t exist.
She isn’t locked up.
But it looks as though he may be.
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I hope you're right but ref the "omelet," when is breakfast being served?

We may very well get that break but it might not take effect till after that period of feudalism and chaos. Not that it has to take that long or be that difficult but yes, "Be careful what you wish for" is at least showing at yellow flag.

"You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet."

There's no question in my mind that the ignorance and incompetence of George W. Bush paved the way for for the first black president in Obama.

I expect the racism, bigotry, ignorance and innumeracy of Trump to destroy the Republican Party and make it harder for the Hillary-style Wall Street/Pharma DEMs as well. The middle-class has a chance to get a break in 2020.

intercst
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I expect the racism, bigotry, ignorance and innumeracy of Trump to destroy the Republican Party and make it harder for the Hillary-style Wall Street/Pharma DEMs as well.

I wish I had a time machine to see how this plays out in the Republican party.
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There's breaking eggs, and then there's shooting the chicken that lays them.
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I wish I had a time machine to see how this plays out in the Republican party.

Bill Maher did a monologue about it a few weeks ago. The Reps did not get what they wanted with Trump (they would have preferred almost any of the others who ran in 2016). But they are getting what they need with two SCOTUS appointments, a slew of federal judges, heads of agencies sympathetic to the destruction of those agencies (e.g. EPA), etc.

It's playing out quite well for the Reps. The possibility of another SCOTUS appointment over the next 5 years likely has them giddy.

For all that they can excuse an inveterate liar, con artist, adulterous, treasonous, Russia-conspiring, white supremacist, wannabe-dictator.
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Bill Maher did a monologue about it a few weeks ago. The Reps did not get what they wanted with Trump (they would have preferred almost any of the others who ran in 2016). But they are getting what they need with two SCOTUS appointments, a slew of federal judges, heads of agencies sympathetic to the destruction of those agencies (e.g. EPA), etc.

They indeed got all of that, but where do they go in 2020? Is Trump going to run on building a wall and having Mexico pay for it again? More tariffs? Bringing back the manufacturing and coal jobs that were lost during Trump's presidency? The Republican party has historically been pro free trade, pro big business. Who do those Republicans vote for?
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They indeed got all of that, but where do they go in 2020? Is Trump going to run on building a wall and having Mexico pay for it again?

Yes.

Incumbents often run on a "finish the job" agenda for all the things they ran on the first time. For Trump voters, the wall still needs to be built. There are still judicial vacancies that need to fill with conservative judges (potentially the Supreme Court). There's still changes that need to be made to immigration. Etc.

They'll also run on a "more of the same" agenda for all the things they can (or will) take credit for. Expect Trump to promote the economy, the (relative) lack of international conflict that the U.S. is involved in, etc.

Albaby
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<<I wish I had a time machine to see how this plays out in the Republican party>>

I think Trump still has a chance if a third party candidate like Kasich runs and turns some DEMs — the Ross Perot scenario.

Interest
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Contrary to the charge of racism, the election of Trump was based on economic issues & rejection of the ruling establishment elites. And those economic issues are occurring in other nation.
This article sums it up quite nicely:
http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/brzezinskis-warning-to-america/
By now, most people are familiar with the demonstrations that have rocked Paris, the political cage-match that is tearing apart England (Brexit), the rise of anti-immigrant right-wing groups that have sprung up across Europe, and the surprising rejection of the front-runner candidate in the 2016 presidential elections in the US. Everywhere the establishment and their neoliberal policies are being rejected by the masses of working people who have only recently begun to wreak havoc on a system that has ignored them for more than 30 years. Trump’s public approval ratings have improved, not because he has “drained the swamp” as he promised, but because he is still seen as a Washington outsider despised by the political class, the foreign policy establishment and the media. His credibility rests on the fact that he is hated by the coalition of elites who working people now regard as their sworn enemy.

President Trump is not responsible for the outbreak of populism and social unrest, he is merely an expression of the peoples rage. Trump’s presidential triumph was a clear rejection of the thoroughly-rigged elitist system that continues to transfer the bulk of the nation’s wealth to tiniest layer of people at the top.


And to commonly held view that the immigration issues was a prime mover for a vote for Trump; there is this study:
https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=1490970830811211...

Here, we examine whether demographic changes at low levels of ag- gregation were associated with vote shifts toward an anti-immigration presidential candidate between 2012 and 2016. To do so, we compile a novel, precinct-level data set of election re- sults and demographic measures for more than 26,000 precincts in Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. We employ regression analyses varying model specifications and measures of demographic change. Our estimates uncover little evidence that influxes of Hispanics or non-citizen immigrants benefitted Trump relative to past Republicans, and in fact suggest that these changes helped his opponent, Hillary Clinton.

In contrast to a theory of demographic threat driving voters towards the anti-immigration can- didate Trump in 2016, the figure shows a negative relationship between increasing Hispanic pop- ulations and increasing Republican support. This association holds for either the between-election time period of 2011 to 2016 or the longer time period of 2000 to 2016. We plot proportional changes in the third and fourth frames. These both show a flat relationship between proportional change and change in Republican support.4
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http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/brzezinskis-warning-to-america/


https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=1490970830811211......


I really lose interest quickly in psychobabble like this. As is typical of unhinged conspiracy theory types, they string together words and phrases that sound ominous, but they don't really have a point other than that they are unhappy.

I'm not sure what point they want to make . . . Beware liberal?? I fail to see a coherent discussion of alternative policy. It's just unhinged whining as far as I can tell.
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As is typical of unhinged conspiracy theory types,

No that would be those that believe in the Russiagate collusion & fearing the end of democracy crowd.

I'm not sure what point they want to make . . . Beware liberal?? I fail to see a coherent discussion of alternative policy. It's just unhinged whining as far as I can tell.

That the Trump election was a rejection of the bipartisan establishment elite’s economic policy that had first negatively the working class and expanded into upper income segment transferring the bulk of that wealth to tiniest layer of people at the top.

In one generation, U.S. wealth held by households from 50th to the 90th percentiles fell from 35.2 percent of the total to 29.1 percent. Most of this wealth has transferred to the top 1 percent of U.S. households.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-13/america-s...
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That the Trump election was a rejection of the bipartisan establishment elite’s economic policy that had first negatively the working class and expanded into upper income segment transferring the bulk of that wealth to tiniest layer of people at the top.


Meeehhhh . . . Have you ever watched actual footage of a Trump rally? I just can't see those words or thoughts coming from the typical Trump supporter. Sorry. I don't buy it.

I've looked at and reviewed a lot of demographic analysis of who voted for Trump and a lot of Sociology studies trying to determine why they voted that way. The arguments you present are just not supported by anything I've seen, and they seem completely implausible to me.
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I just can't see those words or thoughts coming from the typical Trump supporter. Sorry. I don't buy it.

Ditto. They simply aren't that sophisticated.

And the support isn't one-dimensional either. The white supremacists liked him because he, even if indirectly, echoed their views about brown people. Some of the unemployed blue collar people responded to promises of a reopening of factories and mines (instead of having to learn new things and possibly relocate). Some simply checked "R". Some felt ignored by both parties and thought he would be different (which he is, just not in terms of ignoring them). Etc. I have seen interviews with former Trump supporters who say they were fooled, and won't do that again. But they are a very small minority. The other dynamics/motivations are still in force overall, which is why Trump is pretty steady around 35-40% no matter what else is happening (IMHO).

Unless the Dems can pull away some of those voters in key states, we'll likely see a repeat of 2016 where they win the popular vote (maybe even by more than last time), but lose the electoral college because of the flaws of the EC which we've been discussing for years.
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<<There's no question in my mind that the ignorance and incompetence of George W. Bush paved the way for for the first black president in Obama.
>>



In my opinion, Obama earned his win based on his character, family, speaking and writing abilities and shrewd political judgement. I give him every credit.

If he hadn't won in 2008, he would have won in a later election. The first time I heard him speak I said, THERE is a guy who will be President of the United States ----and I went out and bought his second book and read it.

Very impressive guy, even though I didn't like his politics.

One of the things I liked was that he eventually released his birth certificate in a form that proved his US birth unambiguously. There really wasn't any doubt anyway, but he went the extra mile to satisfy those, like Trump, who were making an issue of it, rather dishonestly in many cases I suspect.


After that, you really had to be a fool to persist in disputing Obama's American birth, and there continued to be a few fools who exerted zero influence.

But that generosity in answering the objections of his opponents spoke well for Obama, in my opinion.

Not something Trump would do, surely.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<Bill Maher did a monologue about it a few weeks ago. The Reps did not get what they wanted with Trump (they would have preferred almost any of the others who ran in 2016). But they are getting what they need with two SCOTUS appointments, a slew of federal judges, heads of agencies sympathetic to the destruction of those agencies (e.g. EPA), etc.

It's playing out quite well for the Reps. The possibility of another SCOTUS appointment over the next 5 years likely has them giddy.>>



Yes, Republicans have MUCH to be thankful for this Easter! Thank you for reminding us.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<Bill Maher did a monologue about it a few weeks ago. The Reps did not get what they wanted with Trump (they would have preferred almost any of the others who ran in 2016). But they are getting what they need with two SCOTUS appointments, a slew of federal judges, heads of agencies sympathetic to the destruction of those agencies (e.g. EPA), etc.

They indeed got all of that, but where do they go in 2020? Is Trump going to run on building a wall and having Mexico pay for it again? More tariffs? Bringing back the manufacturing and coal jobs that were lost during Trump's presidency? The Republican party has historically been pro free trade, pro big business. Who do those Republicans vote for?>>


No problem!


Democrats are walking the left wing of the plank with the Green New Deal, trumped up Trump Hatred, free college tuition, jacking up taxes and numerous other excesses which will allow Trump to occupy the center and cut off the Democrats as in 1972 and 1984. You guys are rushing to electoral disaster, again.

No surprises this time, though.



Seattle Pioneer
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Good article.

I'm not surprised that Putin stroked the United Nations when he was speaking from it's podium, but he can't possibly have been serious about it. The UN has been a dead letter forever, confirming that Woodrow Wilson's League Of Nations and FDR's United Nations were both failures and dead letters.

What the world atguably needed back then was an interventionist minded United States ----and what it has was an isolationist United States. That's a large part of the reason Germany nearly won WWII, and why the USSR was beaten into dissolution.

These days there are three clear activist powers --- the United States, China and Russia. There are also significant also rans like Japan and India that are important. Europe, of course, is mainly a continent of pretentious cud chewers.

We really need to craft a foreign policy that Unites the interests of those three powers in some kind of coalition, however informal.
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<<I just can't see those words or thoughts coming from the typical Trump supporter. Sorry. I don't buy it.

Ditto. They simply aren't that sophisticated.

And the support isn't one-dimensional either. The white supremacists liked him because he, even if indirectly, echoed their views about brown people.>>



By contrast, 1poor guy's comments above are a model of electoral sophistication.


<<Unless the Dems can pull away some of those voters in key states, we'll likely see a repeat of 2016 where they win the popular vote (maybe even by more than last time), but lose the electoral college because of the flaws of the EC which we've been discussing for years.>>



Of course, he's already given up losing the 2020 election to Trump, again. I do think he's right on that one. Democrats have painted themselves in the left wing corner and Trump is free to occupy the center.

And after four years of flogging hatred of Trump, voters are going to see their Uncle Donald put upon by a hateful media and Democratic Party. They will wind up trusting the Uncle Donald they know rather than the wild Bernie shouting for "Political Revolution" thirty times a day.

Trump should pick up more Hispanic and African American votes as those groups enjoy significantly better economic times than under Democrats.


Seattle Pioneer
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