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My son got his license and has no desire to own or drive a car, nor has he driven since getting his real license. He is at college staying on campus.

I have searched the net and googled but cannot find if I legally need insurance in Maryland for him. Anyone have a clue?
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If he's literally not driving your car (even occasionally), I don't see why you'd need to name him on the policy as an insured driver.

Your google search probably turned up empty because your the first person to wonder if someone who doesn't drive a car, needs car insurance.

intercst
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If he's literally not driving your car (even occasionally), I don't see why you'd need to name him on the policy as an insured driver.

Agreed and that is my stance HOWEVER:

Your google search probably turned up empty because your the first person to wonder if someone who doesn't drive a car, needs car insurance.

I've read- although only from insurance websites that some states require insurance for anyone with a license in the household. I cannot find anything for Maryland on the topic. In reading some message boards insurance companies have called and ask if teens of age have their license, then by "policy" they require it although it might be more of a tactic than legality.

Yesterday I got that call, asking if any of the teens have their license. Underwriting called my agent to ask. Seems odd to me.
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canonian writes,

I've read- although only from insurance websites that some states require insurance for anyone with a license in the household. I cannot find anything for Maryland on the topic. In reading some message boards insurance companies have called and ask if teens of age have their license, then by "policy" they require it although it might be more of a tactic than legality.

</snip>


Right. An insurance company might have an underwriting rule requiring that all licensed drivers in a household be included on the policy, whether they drive or not. But it's hard to imagine the State Legislature and Governor mandating it.

Note: An insurer may require you to list all the people of driving age in the household on the application when you apply for coverage. But then if you tell them that my kid is away at school and doesn't drive a vehicle. The insurer will issue the policy with a disclaimer like, "Coverage does not extend to drivers under the age of 25."

intercst
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Note: An insurer may require you to list all the people of driving age in the household on the application when you apply for coverage. But then if you tell them that my kid is away at school and doesn't drive a vehicle. The insurer will issue the policy with a disclaimer like, "Coverage does not extend to drivers under the age of 25."

I'm thinking more like: Your rates just doubled because you have a new driver in the house.
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canonian writes,

I'm thinking more like: Your rates just doubled because you have a new driver in the house.

</snip>


Shop around if that happens.

intercst
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Normally the insurance is not too terrible if there are fewer cars than drivers in the house. They also give you a break if a child is in college, especially if out of state. Also, one of the best way to make sure no one else drives your car is have a kid who can drive a manual transmission.

Just a thought - would you want to be able to drive in case of an emergency ? Then you probably want to check the options with your insurance agent.
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So they are now emailing me saying:

Please contact the office and let us know if your son is a member of your household. We just need to confirm with our underwriting department if they are a driving exposure in the household.

Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Has anyone seen anything like this?

That seems pretty standard.

What I would do is call my insurance agent and talk with them, explain exactly what the situation is, and try to work out the most cost effective way to go forward.
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Agree. Is your address your son's permanent mailing address ? (For some, they are living wherever they go to school year round or their permanent address is with a different parent)

Messing around with car insurance is pennywise and pound foolish, IMHO.
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Messing around with car insurance is pennywise and pound foolish, IMHO.

</snip>


Depends on where you live. Here in the Portland OR area, I pay $340/yr for liability-only coverage on my automobile (I self-insure for collision & comp.)

I was talking to a relative in Brooklyn NY a couple of weeks ago. She had bought a 3-year old Toyota Camry and it was going to cost $3,500/yr to insure it. So I said to her, "You can afford to replace a $17,000 car without straining yourself. Why don't you just do liability-only?"

The liability coverage was $1,500/yr. If I lived anywhere on the East Coast, I'd be looking to cut every corner I could on my auto insurance.

intercst
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I was referring to insuring teenage drivers and liability. I should have been more clear.
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Agree. Is your address your son's permanent mailing address ? (For some, they are living wherever they go to school year round or their permanent address is with a different parent)

Messing around with car insurance is pennywise and pound foolish, IMHO.

I understand what you are saying however he has not been in a car since his driving test. He sees a car as a huge expense that he really does not want to have. There is no reason for him to drive right now, job, school etc. He lives on Campus 75% of the year (summer and winter classes).

Trust me, if he was going to drive at all I'd have no issue adding him to our policy. Seems like we should drop the license and get a state ID. Damn! :)

Thanks for everyone's' input.
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canonian: "I understand what you are saying however he has not been in a car since his driving test."

Are you absolutely certain? Has he ever driven a friend's car? Perhaps even as designated driver?

"He sees a car as a huge expense that he really does not want to have. There is no reason for him to drive right now, job, school etc. He lives on Campus 75% of the year (summer and winter classes)."

He sees owning a car as a huge expense that he really does not want to have.. Fixed that for you.

"Trust me, if he was going to drive at all I'd have no issue adding him to our policy. Seems like we should drop the license and get a state ID. Damn! :)"

He may not want to drop his license. Have you asked? IIRC, he would someday need to re-take the entire driving test again if he dropped his license. Also, doing so would prevent him from sharing driving on his spring break trip, or to keep a inebriated friend from driving.

Regards, JAFO
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JAFO

None of what you fabricated above is true. This conversation is spiraling out control from the facts to guess work.

Bottom line: Does anyone know if you legally need to insure someone in Maryland with a drivers license but does NOT drive.

So far I can find NOTHING. I know other states require it.
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canonian writes,

Bottom line: Does anyone know if you legally need to insure someone in Maryland with a drivers license but does NOT drive.

So far I can find NOTHING. I know other states require it.

</snip>


Why don't you go to the horse's mouth and call or e-mail the Maryland State Insurance Commissioner with the question?

https://insurance.maryland.gov/Pages/default.aspx

The Insurance Commissioner in Maryland is an elective office -- they're usually the ones that are most responsive to a voter's inquiry.

intercst
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The Insurance Commissioner in Maryland is an elective office -- they're usually the ones that are most responsive to a voter's inquiry.

I sent an email. When I called I got the run-a-round! Seems everyone has a recommendation or will point to what they think is best. I'll try again.
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canonian: "JAFO - None of what you fabricated above is true."

WTF? WTH did I fabricate?

Are you absolutely certain?"

QUESTION!

"Has he ever driven a friend's car?"

QUESTION

"Perhaps even as designated driver?"

QUESTION

"He sees owning a car as a huge expense that he really does not want to have.. Fixed that for you."

OPINION, JUST LIKE YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT.

"He may not want to drop his license."

NOT A DEFINITIVE STATEMENT - NOTICE THE "MAY NOT" - WHICH INCLUDES A PRECEDING IMPLICIT "MAY OR"

"Have you asked?"

QUESTION

"IIRC, he would someday need to re-take the entire driving test again if he dropped his license."

OPINION - DID YOU NOTICE THE "IIRC" - AND NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON

"Also, doing so would prevent him from sharing driving on his spring break trip, or to keep a inebriated friend from driving."

STATEMENT OF FACT; and TRUE IF YOUR SON DROPS HIS LICENSE.

SO WTH DID I FABRICATE?

Please be specific and quote the portion of y post that you believe is a fabrication.

JAFO
(More than a little peeved at being call a liar by canonian)
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Are you absolutely certain? Has he ever driven a friend's car? Perhaps even as designated driver?
"Has he ever driven a friend's car?"
"Perhaps even as designated driver?"


^^^ This. My first message was quite clear. For some reason you did not read it or decided to fabricate what you think all kids do. I don't know.

I started this thread with:

"My son got his license and has no desire to own or drive a car, nor has he driven since getting his real license. He is at college staying on campus.

I have searched the net and googled but cannot find if I legally need insurance in Maryland for him. Anyone have a clue?"


I did not start with, I'm not sure if my kid is driving but does Maryland legally require car insurance given my uncertainty.

Don't take it wrong.
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canonian:

"^^^ This. My first message was quite clear. For some reason you did not read it or decided to fabricate what you think all kids do. I don't know.

I started this thread with:

"My son got his license and has no desire to own or drive a car, nor has he driven since getting his real license. He is at college staying on campus.

I have searched the net and googled but cannot find if I legally need insurance in Maryland for him. Anyone have a clue?"

I did not start with, I'm not sure if my kid is driving but does Maryland legally require car insurance given my uncertainty."


And I did not respond to your first post because I have no idea what Maryland law requires. I also note that it could be a requirement by the underwriters for your insurance company and not a state law requirement.

I was very clear about which post I was responding to, including quoting it.

I also note that you intentionally re-used the word fabricate (again) even though you refused my reasonable request about pointing out exactly what you believe I fabricated. Nice. Did you learn you behavior from El Presidente, make stuff up and then duck all responsibility for what you wrote? I will take your refusal as an admission that you cannot point out any fabrication and that you are too embarrassed to so admit.

JAFO
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And I did not respond to your first post because I have no idea what Maryland law requires. I also note that it could be a requirement by the underwriters for your insurance company and not a state law requirement.

So you did read the first message, and replied to another. Again I stated exactly what is going on, you read it and made up your own story.
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Don't take it wrong

I think you must have meant - thank you all for taking the time to respond even though I am being oblivious to any possible consequences.
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canonian:

JAFO: <<<And I did not respond to your first post because I have no idea what Maryland law requires. I also note that it could be a requirement by the underwriters for your insurance company and not a state law requirement.>>>

"So you did read the first message, and replied to another."

Yes. One you wrote, in fact. And if you have really been here since 1999 you are well aware that is not uncommon

"Again I stated exactly what is going on, you read it and made up your own story."

Now you are again fabricating your story.

As I wrote in my prior post:

<<<I was very clear about which post I was responding to, including quoting it.>>>

Responding to a post in a thread, even if not the original post, is common and is not FABRICATING anything. And if you cannot see the difference then that is your loss. But you see to love fabricating stuff about my me,

JAFO
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Responding to a post in a thread, even if not the original post, is common and is not FABRICATING anything. And if you cannot see the difference then that is your loss. But you see to love fabricating stuff about my me,

Oh lord. You had the facts. You did not know the answer and decided to reply with questions that you had the answers to. Better to not reply at all if you do not have an answer or can help in some meaningful way.

Replying to another message in the thread to skip the context, facts and details is not a good idea. The least you could have done is say that you did not read the entire thread and end this, however you clearly said that you did not know Maryland law thus you did read it. Stating something about your home state and admitting you don't know what Maryland law requires would have been nice.

"intercst" had a great replies on point without conjuring up some what if scenarios that do not exist.
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canonian:

<<<Responding to a post in a thread, even if not the original post, is common and is not FABRICATING anything. And if you cannot see the difference then that is your loss. But you see[m] to love fabricating stuff about my me,>>>

"Oh lord. You had the facts. You did not know the answer and decided to reply with questions that you had the answers to. Better to not reply at all if you do not have an answer or can help in some meaningful way."

It is not all about you. There are plenty of other people who read these boards, and some of them might be able to benefit from my post. And unless you are either Tom and David Gardner, I will gladly ignore your unsolicited suggestion.

"Replying to another message in the thread to skip the context, facts and details is not a good idea."

So you tell me. I suggest to you that the reality is otherwise.

"The least you could have done is say that you did not read the entire thread and end this,"

So you want me to lie and say and I did not read the whole thread? Some advice giver you are.

"however you clearly said that you did not know Maryland law thus you did read it. Stating something about your home state and admitting you don't know what Maryland law requires would have been nice."

Without research I could not recite the applicable insurance laws of Texas off the top of my head.

Unless you can point to some TMF posting rule(s) I have broken, I will continue to post as a I see fit.

You are welcome.

JAFO
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canonian: "I understand what you are saying however he has not been in a car since his driving test."

Are you absolutely certain? Has he ever driven a friend's car? Perhaps even as designated driver?

^^
My sentence you copied, and replied to had your answer. The above is directly from your post. Why would you think he drove after I said he has not? Why ask a question in direct conflict to the facts? Designated driver? Now you are making accusations about driving, and driving drunk people around. How did you come up with all of these "things" given that he has NOT driven since taking his driving test.

If someone said I have a blue car, why would you reply with "Are you sure that it is blue, maybe it's only blue when (insert your scenario here).
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My sentence you copied, and replied to had your answer. The above is directly from your post. Why would you think he drove after I said he has not? Why ask a question in direct conflict to the facts? Designated driver? Now you are making accusations about driving, and driving drunk people around. How did you come up with all of these "things" given that he has NOT driven since taking his driving test.

It's pretty simple. I have kids too. Kids are not honest 100% of the time. Well, let's assume he has not driven since his driving test. The next questions was possible scenarios that Jafo listed. Since it seems the drunken friend scenario offends you, let's say your son's friend trips and twists his ankle badly (or insert any other non-911 injury). Friend asks your son to drive him to urgent care. Would your son refuse?

The thing is that we can skip all the scenarios. Your son has to know that under no circumstances can he ever get behind the wheel of a car. Otherwise, he puts his financial future at risk. He puts your financial future at risk too.

PSU
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canonian: "If someone said I have a blue car, why would you reply with "Are you sure that it is blue, maybe it's only blue when (insert your scenario here)."

It depends.

If you said you had a blue car, I would believe you because it would be in your personal knowledge.

If someone else said so, it would depend on the context. I might have questions to ask. Like how does that person know you have a blue car? Does it come from personal knowledge or are they relying upon what you told them.

canonian: {{{"I understand what you are saying however he has not been in a car since his driving test."}}}

JAFO: <<<Are you absolutely certain? Has he ever driven a friend's car? Perhaps even as designated driver?>>>

You said your son was away at school. I was a college student once. I have children who were college students. And I know that not every college student tells necessarily tells his parents 100% of what has been going on. Omission is not a fabrication, and absent an oath or a 10b-5 obligation under Securities and Exchange Act of 1934, is not an issue.

Given that you have only your son's words for his having "never" driven since he has been in school, you are not speaking from personal knowledge; it is hearsay. And I gave one example, which placed your son in a good light helping out a friend, wherein some students would not necessarily tell their parent(s). It was a question, not a fabrication (which would generally require a statement of fact absent question that contains assumes an underlying fact).

It still feels like a reasonable question to me.

JAFO

PS - And if my posts bother you that much, you can ignore them or you can even place me entirely on ignore
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It's pretty simple. I have kids too. Kids are not honest 100% of the time. Well, let's assume he has not driven since his driving test. The next questions was possible scenarios that Jafo listed. Since it seems the drunken friend scenario offends you, let's say your son's friend trips and twists his ankle badly (or insert any other non-911 injury). Friend asks your son to drive him to urgent care. Would your son refuse?

The thing is that we can skip all the scenarios. Your son has to know that under no circumstances can he ever get behind the wheel of a car. Otherwise, he puts his financial future at risk. He puts your financial future at risk too.


Again none of that is relevant since he does not drive. Not going to debate "what ifs" when my question was very simple - although hard to find a correct answer.
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You said your son was away at school. I was a college student once. I have children who were college students. And I know that not every college student tells necessarily tells his parents 100% of what has been going on.

My experience is the exact opposite; therefor our conversation clashes. Now you are insinuating that kids in college lie. When will this end? You are constantly "making stuff up" to fit your version of a story.

PS - And if my posts bother you that much, you can ignore them or you can even place me entirely on ignore

Your posts don't offend me, never said that, again you are assuming and interjecting what you think I'm thinking.


My point to all of this was stay on topic. Obviously that is an issue. If you wanted to talk about "what ifs" start another thread.
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Again none of that is relevant since he does not drive.

Your son has a driver's license. If you choose to ignore all the "what's if" that are possible, that's on you. I view car insurance as a cheap way of protecting what I have taken a lifetime to build up.

PSU
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Now you are insinuating that kids in college lie.

They do.

PSU
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Your son has a driver's license. If you choose to ignore all the "what's if" that are possible, that's on you. I view car insurance as a cheap way of protecting what I have taken a lifetime to build up.

If he needed car insurance to protect him in a car accident as a passenger I'd be all over it. At his age car insurance would not protect me from anything, I am not responsible.

Protecting my assets is unrelated.
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Now you are insinuating that kids in college lie.

They do.


Should have phrased that differently, I only have to be concerned with my son not "kids in college" so kids in college lying will not have any bearing on car insurance laws for him.
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canonian:

JAFO: <<<You said your son was away at school. I was a college student once. I have children who were college students. And I know that not every college student tells necessarily tells his parents 100% of what has been going on.>>>

"My experience is the exact opposite; therefor our conversation clashes. Now you are insinuating that kids in college lie. When will this end? You are constantly "making stuff up" to fit your version of a story."

Good for you. So every child you know always tells their parents everything? Your friends who are parents have children who always tell their parents everything? I wish I know such perfect people (but my friends human, i.e., to err is human) and/or had a pair of rose-colored glasses like you appear to have.

"My point to all of this was stay on topic. Obviously that is an issue. If you wanted to talk about "what ifs" start another thread."

I was responding directly to a post in the thread. It was (and is) on topic.

JAFO
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In case anyone is in a similar situation:

I found out some insurance companies allow exclusions (signed docs) that they will not drive. Some states require a licensed person to have insurance even if they don't drive, luckily Maryland is not one.

Erie Insurance is a company in my area that allows the exclusion. Auto was a little higher than State Farm who I'm with now, however Home and Umbrella are less so there is a little annual savings of $82 just apples to apples with current policies. The major difference is that SF wanted $2088 a year to insure someone who won't be driving. That is just a waste of money. When he decides to drive, or needs to drive we can simply call up and get him started.
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Erie Insurance is a company in my area that allows the exclusion.

</snip>


Here's a good write up on "excluded drivers".

Excluded Drivers: Does Everyone in Your Home Need to Be Insured?
https://blog.esurance.com/excluded-drivers-does-everyone-in-...

</snip>


Note that even if your kid provided a signed affidavit that he would never drive your car, if he did, the insurance company would still have to pay any liability claim. The insurer could come after you to reclaim the expense of settling the claim after the fact, but the insurer would be on the hook originally.

That's why some insurers consider a "driver" to be anyone physically capable of operating a motor vehicle, whether they're licensed or not.

intercst
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That's why some insurers consider a "driver" to be anyone physically capable of operating a motor vehicle, whether they're licensed or not.

That could be a 12 year old. Unreal. They should not be on the hook for it, but that's not how it is.
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intercst: "Here's a good write up on "excluded drivers".

Excluded Drivers: Does Everyone in Your Home Need to Be Insured?
https://blog.esurance.com/excluded-drivers-does-everyone-in-...

</snip>

"Note that even if your kid provided a signed affidavit that he would never drive your car, if he did, the insurance company would still have to pay any liability claim."

That is not what the article you linked said: "In most states, an excluded driver would have no coverage at all, but some states do require limited liability coverage for excluded drivers."

"The insurer could come after you to reclaim the expense of settling the claim after the fact, but the insurer would be on the hook originally."

And even if accurate, liability would only be for claims from third parties, up to the policy limits, and not cover damage to your own car, i.e., the one driven by the excluded driver (and perhaps not cover the excluded driver, at least to the extent of his or her negligence).

Regards, JAFO
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Either you folks are/were married or this is a hilarious episode from Carol Burnett's show.
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