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Global Climate Protest happening today.
What is shows is that indoctrination works. Believe our hooey and get a day off from school!
All the protesters have had their education during the Obama years.
Goebbels would be so proud.
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What is shows is that indoctrination works

I gotta wonder just who is indoctrinated here, the ones agreeing with the vast majority of the world's scientists or the ones who think there is a global conspiracy involving the world's scientists and those who listen to them.

Snark, aside, in a complex world how should I decide who to listen to? Maybe we do live in the matrix and it's all a mirage. Elon Musk says we live in a computer simulation. Maybe there is a shadowy world government influencing all our thoughts and actions. Elvis killed JFK. Or they're both alive and happily married in small town in Ohio. How would I know? What could I do if it were true? That way lies madness.

For my money, I'll take the conclusions of the scientific community as our best bet on reality. They've got a great track record, they've brought us wealth and health and the modern world. The scientific method has, for centuries, proven to be the best method for imperfect humans to arrive at the truth. And the conclusion of the scientific method is that humans are dangerously changing the climate.
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The scientific method has, for centuries, proven to be the best method for imperfect humans to arrive at the truth. And the conclusion of the scientific method is that humans are dangerously changing the climate. - spinning

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I for one am weary of the never ending debate about "if". I realize it is an important question and some feel a debatable question but the constant wrangling over "if it's happening" is boring and repetitive and likely is not changing anyone's mind.

I would like to see some scientific investigation and discussion of the efficacy of the various proposals to save humanity from the dystopian future of inaction.

Will reducing carbon to x% of year z levels and keeping it there restore a sustainable planet?

I don't care for proposals that more or less say, "We aren't sure if this will solve any problem, but we need to get started". That only makes sense in the context of a larger plan that science has investigated and certified that will actually solve the problem. My two cents.
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In a way, Thunberg is not the face of a climate crisis but an alarming example of how the climate cabal has needlessly terrified two generations of young people. The emotional, physical, and intellectual damage wrought by the climate change movement now is coming into clear view and it’s an outcome that should enrage every parent."...etc


https://amgreatness.com/2019/09/19/child-hostages-obey-their...
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It is the latest stunt orchestrated by the international climate cabal and yet another example of how the Left shamelessly exploits and manipulates children to propagandize any cause. (Think of the high school students in Parkland, Florida.) But this time, the climate cabal is using a special-needs teenager from Sweden to indoctrinate more children and adults with climate change dogma.

Greta Thunberg is a 16-year-old from Stockholm—which is ironic because the teen exhibits many traits associated with a hostage attempting to please her captors.... etc


https://amgreatness.com/2019/09/19/child-hostages-obey-their...
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....they've brought us wealth and health and the modern world.

No, fossil fuels have done that!
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spinning: For my money, I'll take the conclusions of the scientific community as our best bet on reality.

WHAT??? You believe a cabal of international scientists instead of Breitbart??? I am shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

CNC
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Funny how the climate scientists (James Hansen, Ken Caldeira, and others) who have stated how we need an expansion of nuclear power to combat climate change are attacked and ridiculed by the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate. It seems that only certain politically correct solutions are allowed in the Climate Movement. But yet, the CO2 concentration just keeps going up, and 2018 saw another record use of fossil fuels world-wide.

Protests, strikes, or whatever. The atmospheric CO2 concentration is going up and will continue going up. All of your feel-good marches and school-skipping isn't going to change that.

- Pete
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"In a way, Thunberg is not the face of a climate crisis but an alarming example of how the climate cabal has needlessly terrified two generations of young people. The emotional, physical, and intellectual damage wrought by the climate change movement now is coming into clear view and it’s an outcome that should enrage every parent."...etc"


She's a typical greenie idiot

Her stunt, taking a sail boat across the Atlantic, caused 4 crew members to FLY back home.

So instead of CO2 for one-passenger - her - 4 times as much CO2 was emitted.

second, she's likely to fly back home since the sailboat won't be available.

Not only that, on her stunt voyage of multiple days, her and the rest of the crew consumed extra food - which required tons of CO2 to be released.....from plowing to fertilizing to pesticides to refrigeration to processing to trucking the food.......

She's one of the greenie types that travel solo to greenie rallies in the gas guzzling SUVs thinking nothing of the CO2 emitted in getting there and back......

When she and her fellow greenies swear never to take an airplane trip, never to own a combustion engine car, never order anything from Amazon or other web based sellers than use air transport, never use FedEx, and never eat food that requires air transport.

Oh, and she better live in house never heated by oil or natural gas....... maybe wood pellets but emit CO2 when burned NOW.....

otherwise, it's all a sad political based stunt.....


t.
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Pete asserted, without providing any evidence Funny how the climate scientists (James Hansen, Ken Caldeira, and others) who have stated how we need an expansion of nuclear power to combat climate change are attacked and ridiculed by the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate.


What are you talking about? I've not seen this behavior of, for instance, Greta Thunberg, attacking Hansen or Caldeira.
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What are you talking about? I've not seen this behavior of, for instance, Greta Thunberg, attacking Hansen or Caldeira.
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I base my statement on opinions I have read in various places. However, from a quick Google search, here is a slightly more polite piece.

https://theecologist.org/2015/nov/20/dont-nuke-climate-james...

- Pete
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....they've brought us wealth and health and the modern world.

No, fossil fuels have done that!

========================================================

Boy are you confused!

Engineers and scientists brought fossil fuel energy into existence which resulted in progress. Now engineers and scientists are telling us that CO2 emissions are very destructive to our world and will get much worse with continued burning of fossil fuels.

jaagu
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"Engineers and scientists brought fossil fuel energy into existence which resulted in progress. Now engineers and scientists are telling us that CO2 emissions are very destructive to our world and will get much worse with continued burning of fossil fuels"

Before fossil fuels....there was wood.

The Romans stripped forests of wood for 100 miles around and even further to make cement to build all their buildings and infrastructure.

In 19th century England, most of the country was stripped of wood forests to make glass and smelt metals. It was discovery of COAL that saved the remaining forests in England......

Wood and coal both emit CO2.

The navies of the world ran on coal after they converted from sail power...... but of course, they went through a lot of coal and had short range.

The railroads of both England and the US first ran on wood....the converted to coal to haul bigger loads and more distance between stops......

Then oil was discovered. Trains moved to diesel, cars and trucks appeared.....and ships were run on oil......

Homes were first heated by wood....then in many areas by coal/peat....later many moved to 'oil burners'.....and later many to natural gas.....progress....


Progress which brought a billion people out of poverty. Progress that started the industrial age and allowed billions more people to be born and live on the Earth. Better farming, food, transport, safety.....transportation.....electricity. Central heating. Hot water. Refrigeration.

Meanwhile, by 2050, they'll be billions more people to feed and house .........but you can't talk about that....

More people= more CO2 emitted...

t.
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However, from a quick Google search, here is a slightly more polite piece.

https://theecologist.org/2015/nov/20/dont-nuke-climate-james...



So you were able to find an obscure opinion piece by an obscure anti-nuclear environmentalist that does politely attack and ridicule Hansen over his pro-nuclear message. That's hardly convincing back-up for your claim " climate scientists (James Hansen, Ken Caldeira, and others) who have stated how we need an expansion of nuclear power to combat climate change are attacked and ridiculed by the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate."

In the US for instance we have Bill McKibben as one of the foremost leaders of the climate movement. And, it's true that he is anti-nuclear. But has he ever attacked and ridiculed Dr. Hansen?

Here's a tweet of his from last year:
"Thirty years ago today, James Hansen took climate change out of the labs and into public. He was the Paul Revere we desperately needed. And he's fought the good fight ever since"

That looks more like praise and reverence than attack and ridicule.

https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1010507441895886849?...

Here's a long 'conversation' between Hansen and McKibben: no attack or ridicule involved:
https://grist.org/article/2010-12-21-a-conversation-with-bil...


Greta Thunberg has been in the news a lot recently as the leader of the youth movement to stop global warming. I don't find much from a brief search directly connecting her and Hansen except this:

https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/44388/1/greta-...

"What are your favourite books on climate change?

Greta Thunberg: So many, but mostly books by Naomi Klein, George Monbiot, James Hansen and climate scientists and geologists."

So, cited as a favorite author on the subject, no ridicule or attack.

Naomi Klein is a prominent climate writer, no attacks on Hansen.

It's clear that your broad-brush statement is false that "the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate" attacked and ridiculed Hansen and other pro-nuclear climate scientists. In fact very few people who claim to be very concerned about climate have ever attacked and ridiculed Hansen.
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Pete asserted, without providing any evidence Funny how the climate scientists (James Hansen, Ken Caldeira, and others) who have stated how we need an expansion of nuclear power to combat climate change are attacked and ridiculed by the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate.


What are you talking about? I've not seen this behavior of, for instance, Greta Thunberg, attacking Hansen or Caldeira.


The LA Times today quoted her as saying, "Don't believe me. Believe the scientists."

CNC
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Pete writes: Funny how the climate scientists (James Hansen, Ken Caldeira, and others) who have stated how we need an expansion of nuclear power to combat climate change are attacked and ridiculed by the people who claim to be most concerned about the climate.

==========================================================================

Engineers and scientists have shown that nuclear power is too expensive and take too long to start generating power help with CO2 emissions.

Engineers and scientists have shown that fossil fuel electrical power generation is only responsible for 25% of all CO2 emissions. Saying that nuclear power would stop most CO2 emissions is rather naïve. Nuclear power can not close

Engineers and scientists have shown that the use of oil for transportation and heat is the worst CO2 emissions. James Hansen was adamantly against more oil, and he actively fought against tar sands and KXL pipeline. Hansen was much more worried about tar sands than nuclear power.

Engineers and scientists around the world have given up on existing nuclear power such EPR, AP1000, and other large 1000MW to 1600 MW reactors. The only hope for new nuclear is Gen IV, but that is 15 to 20 years away (2035-2040) from generating any meaningful amount of electricity.

jaagu
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So you were able to find an obscure opinion piece by an obscure anti-nuclear environmentalist that does politely attack and ridicule Hansen over his pro-nuclear message.

It really doesn't matter what proof I give you. You will just declare them "obscure" and hand wave them away.

Okay. James Hansen is generally respected in the environmental community. But it is also clear that Hansen's opinion on nuclear power is generally not welcomed by that community. In fact, nuclear power is hated.

- Pete
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James Hansen is generally respected in the environmental community. But it is also clear that Hansen's opinion on nuclear power is generally not welcomed by that community. In fact, nuclear power is hated.

- Pete

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Too bad you do not respect James Hansen and the environmental community.

Being a climate change denialist and being pro-nuke is weird.

jaagu
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