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Does anyone know someone who dumped someone they planned to marry because of the debt load they carried?


One of my theories is that people planning to marry should exchange credit reports when they are seriously contemplating a life together --- and should discuss what they find on those reports.


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Does anyone know someone who dumped someone they planned to marry because of the debt load they carried?


One of my theories is that people planning to marry should exchange credit reports when they are seriously contemplating a life together --- and should discuss what they find on those reports.


Seattle Pioneer


SP! Did you get engage recently?? Congratulations!
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I suppose a person could put off getting married, too, for that reason.

IMO it makes sense to avoid getting married to someone who owes a lot of money - especially to the IRS.
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Personally, no.

But every so often on the Suze Orman show, she'll get a caller (usually a woman) concerned about marrying the fiance once the debt the other is carrying (and why) is out in the open.
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<<One of my theories is that people planning to marry should exchange credit reports when they are seriously contemplating a life together --- and should discuss what they find on those reports.


Seattle Pioneer

SP! Did you get engage recently?? Congratulations! >>



Heh, heh!


I said, "ONE OF MY THEORIES IS...."



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<<But every so often on the Suze Orman show, she'll get a caller (usually a woman) concerned about marrying the fiance once the debt the other is carrying (and why) is out in the open. >>



I wonder if the guys are paralyzed by their cute girl friends who are loaded with debt and willing to marry them anyway.


The women sound like the smarter of the two sexes, in this case.



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So you broke up over it? Bummer.
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The women sound like the smarter of the two sexes

<Faint>

Nancy
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I wonder if the guys are paralyzed by their cute girl friends who are loaded with debt and willing to marry them anyway.


The women sound like the smarter of the two sexes, in this case.


More often than not, it seems it's women calling in concerned their male fiance is carrying debt.

Maybe women who carry debt are more likely to get that out in the open earlier in the relationship. Maybe men are less concerned about carrying debt and more optimistic about paying it off. Or maybe because finances and sex are the top issues couples are likely to fight about, maybe women know they're going to start fighting if there's too much debt - maybe men are less concerned as long as there's enough sex.
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<<The women sound like the smarter of the two sexes, in this case.

More often than not, it seems it's women calling in concerned their male fiance is carrying debt.

Maybe women who carry debt are more likely to get that out in the open earlier in the relationship. Maybe men are less concerned about carrying debt and more optimistic about paying it off. Or maybe because finances and sex are the top issues couples are likely to fight about, maybe women know they're going to start fighting if there's too much debt - maybe men are less concerned as long as there's enough sex. >>



Perhaps men disproportionately tune out Suzie Orman. I do.


On the rare occasions that I listen to her programs, she seems to be providing good information and common sense. Despite that, I find that her presentations turn me off, so it's rare that I listen to her programs.

So perhaps she has a disproportionately female audience.


Just guessing.


Seattle Pioneer
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On the rare occasions that I listen to her programs, she seems to be providing good information and common sense. Despite that, I find that her presentations turn me off, so it's rare that I listen to her programs.

Her target audience is those who are in debt. If you aren't in debt, then her spiel is not really of value. I find Dave Ramsey more irratating. I can't even remember the name for the Rich Dad/Poor Dad trash. He just comes across as a conman.

I did like the Can You Afford it segment because of the ridiculous purchases some people thought that they could afford, but found I rarely watched an entire show.
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She wasn't a Fiance but I dumped a girlfriend who had over $100k in debt and wasn't making any effort to pay it down.

She was living at home at the time, almost no expenses and could easily have had it paid down to a manageable level in 2-3 years.
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while they weren't at the marriage stage, I know someone who who has ended more than one relationship for that reason.

peace & list of qualifications
t
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Does anyone know someone who dumped someone they planned to marry because of the debt load they carried?

One of my theories is that people planning to marry should exchange credit reports when they are seriously contemplating a life together --and should discuss what they find on those reports.



No, but I know intimately someone who wishes she had.

MOI
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I said, "ONE OF MY THEORIES IS...."

That is the same as "I'M ASKING FOR A FRIEND...."

PSU
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<<She wasn't a Fiance but I dumped a girlfriend who had over $100k in debt and wasn't making any effort to pay it down.
>>



Was she CUTE?



How much of a consideration was that?


I wonder if that makes more of a difference for men than women?



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<<while they weren't at the marriage stage, I know someone who who has ended more than one relationship for that reason.

peace & list of qualifications
t >>



Male or female? Do you think that men or women are more likely to dump a girlfriend/boyfriend who has lots of debt or high spending?


Men seem to describe women who spend loads (or expect THEM to spend a lot) as "high maintenance." Is there a female equivalent?


At least in the past, women reputedly often looked for men who were "good providers." Is there an equivalent term for women these days?



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<<Does anyone know someone who dumped someone they planned to marry because of the debt load they carried?

One of my theories is that people planning to marry should exchange credit reports when they are seriously contemplating a life together --and should discuss what they find on those reports.



No, but I know intimately someone who wishes she had.

MOI >>


So what drove the marriage to take place?

Were there warnings signs that could have been observed? If so, why were they ignored?




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<<I said, "ONE OF MY THEORIES IS...."

That is the same as "I'M ASKING FOR A FRIEND...."

PSU >>


No, it isn't.


Personally, I never married because I saw a lot of people with a LOT more social smarts than I have getting divorced. If the nominal rate of divorce was 50%, I always thought the odds of my getting divorced was A LOT higher.

If the odds of divorce FOR YOU are 80-90%, why bother?


I also reached the conclusion that GETTING MARRIED was easy to do. It's something I could have done several times.

STAYING married is often quite difficult. I never had much confidence that would work for me. So again --- why bother?


But it's still an interesting subject to discuss.


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"Men seem to describe women who spend loads (or expect THEM to spend a lot) as "high maintenance." Is there a female equivalent?"

Nope. He's still "high maintenance", even if it manifests itself a bit differently.

- Paint
peace and less drama after the breakup
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You know, SP, that's an amazing amount of self-awareness.

My ex said the something similar to me as we were getting divorced - that he should have realised that marriage was not for him - he was not willing or able to put in the work to stay married. He didn't think he had the ability to live with anyone else - either he or the other person would be miserable.

orinjade
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"Men seem to describe women who spend loads (or expect THEM to spend a lot) as "high maintenance." Is there a female equivalent?"

Nope. He's still "high maintenance", even if it manifests itself a bit differently.


There is a new term, it's called "baller".

Similar to sports-stars who spend their income living large and flashy.
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SeattlePioneer,

You wrote, I wonder if the guys are paralyzed by their cute girl friends who are loaded with debt and willing to marry them anyway.

I think you meant to say, I wonder if the guys are so whipped by their cute girlfriends who are loaded with debt they are willing to marry them anyway.

- Joel
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<<SeattlePioneer,

You wrote, I wonder if the guys are paralyzed by their cute girl friends who are loaded with debt and willing to marry them anyway.

I think you meant to say, I wonder if the guys are so whipped by their cute girlfriends who are loaded with debt they are willing to marry them anyway.

- Joel>>



Heh, heh! Women tend to beat up on me if I use plain language...



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<<My ex said the something similar to me as we were getting divorced - that he should have realised that marriage was not for him - he was not willing or able to put in the work to stay married. He didn't think he had the ability to live with anyone else - either he or the other person would be miserable.

orinjade
>>



So why didn't he? Was he feeling too pressured to "get married" that it overcame this judgment he had made about himself?

And what about you? Did you understand that this was a risk with him? And if not --- was it something you could have or should have known and recognized?


I'm always interested in whether people make good or bad decisions on who they marry. It seems like A LOT of people make poor decisions that later result in divorce.

What could or should people do to improve those odds?


I suggested trading credit reports --- but what else might people do?



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People seem to have 20/20 hindsight on why their marriage failed.


I've only encountered one person --- a woman, who said that her DIVORCE was a mistake.

To what extent are people kidding themselves about the wisdom of getting divorced?




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I've only encountered one person --- a woman, who said that her DIVORCE was a mistake.

To what extent are people kidding themselves about the wisdom of getting divorced?

Seattle Pioneer


My husband's first marriage was a disaster. He married very young because of another mistake, she was pregnant. The odds of that marriage being a success was extremely low, and he hasn't regretted the divorce.
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I'm always interested in whether people make good or bad decisions on who they marry. It seems like A LOT of people make poor decisions that later result in divorce.

What could or should people do to improve those odds?


Financial is a major issue, but isn't the only issue that will test a marriage. Step-kids, kids and in-laws are also major issues.

I made it very clear that I wouldn't tolerate debt or his history of sloppy payments. If he wanted to keep his credit cards, and he really hated writing checks, he had to keep them paid off. After a panic trip to the water company (which seriously annoyed me) because he didn't get around to paying them, utilities went on autopay.

There needs to be a plan for dealing with step-kids.

In-law relationships are less predictable. My FIL was very annoyed that he wasn't given any information regarding our finances. His attempts to control our finances because clearly he was the only financially competent one in the family wasn't tolerated. He was domineering and chauvanistic. FIL was also annoyed that I was making more money than he or his son.

I doubt that anyone is really ready for marriage. You may believe it, but reality isn't clean.
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...what else might people do?

There are many questions that can trip up a couple on the way home from the altar. There are actually a fair number of books about it. One that I enjoyed was this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Hard-Questions-100-Ask-Before-ebook/dp...

I also recognized that I was in the midst of a hormonal soup that is designed to make me overlook my beloved's weaknesses -- and asked others whom I trust to take a close look at the person as well. The one hesitation anyone had was that DH is 7.5 years older than I am, which may lead to significant differences in our needs and abilities as we age. I chose to accept that risk. This is a good practice for catching people who may be controlling, or have a potential addiction, or who are just plain jerks who can put on a good show some of the time.

We did trade credit reports, full listings of assets, and shared full visibility of our accounts and transactions for two years before we got married.

And we talked about kids. At length since we have four between us, I wanted more, and he adamantly did not. And the four were split within 2 states then and are in 4 different states now.

And we talked about work and careers. That's a complicated issue that we are still working through.

And we talked about many other things, from where we would vacation to what we like to do during down time to how much time together and apart we would need.

We also talked about deal-breakers for the marriage. This is a second time through for both of us and we both are more realistic than we were the first time.

In the end, it is still an act of faith to marry someone. It can be a really hard slog and terrifying even in the best of marriages. It is also one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. (The most rewarding thing is being a parent. Parenting is also harder than being a spouse, in my mind. I suspect that varies from person to person though.)

ThyPeace, and depends on the spouse and the kids, for that matter.
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So why didn't he? Was he feeling too pressured to "get married" that it overcame this judgment he had made about himself?

And what about you? Did you understand that this was a risk with him? And if not --- was it something you could have or should have known and recognized?


I think it was a late realisation on his part - on both our parts, actually - hindsight, as has been said, is 20/20. We had a good marriage, for the most part, and it lasted a while. It could have been a great marriage, if we had put in the work.

When we met, and married, we did it as much with our heads as with our hearts. We made a good couple - his strengths balanced out my weaknesses and vice-versa, we had very similar values, and we loved and respected each other. But sometimes, the things we are willing to compromise on when we are younger, get more difficult as we get older.

Was my divorce a mistake? Not given the situation. But it was a waste. He understood the need to maintain his cars, his motorcycles, his plane, but not the need to maintain his relationships. I, on the other hand, am a people person, am more likely to spend time with people than things. So in a way, the things that most attracted us about the other person, the things that made us extremely complementary, were the things that were our undoing.

orinjade

P.S. And before someone jumps on it, yes, we could more than afford all his toys - our retirements were well funded, and both of us had high paying jobs.
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I owed about $1500 on a Dell computer I had purchased prior to meeting my wife. She advised me that she wouldn't ever marry me as long as I still had that debt. The day she told me that is the day I knew she was the woman I wanted to marry.

xtn
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<<I owed about $1500 on a Dell computer I had purchased prior to meeting my wife. She advised me that she wouldn't ever marry me as long as I still had that debt. The day she told me that is the day I knew she was the woman I wanted to marry.

xtn >>



So what debts did she have?



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"Does anyone know someone who dumped someone they planned to marry because of the debt load they carried?"

Long before I met my wife, I dated numerous women with opposite financial goals. They were nice individuals, but our spending habits were not in-synch. As such, the relationship(s) was/were pretty much doomed from the start. On the contrary, my wife and I were 100% in-synch right from day one. No surprise then, that we are happily married, with no financial stress, and identical savings and investment goals.
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"We did trade credit reports, full listings of assets, and shared full visibility of our accounts and transactions for two years before we got married."

We did the same.
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identical savings and investment goals.

That, I think, is one of the more important parts of getting married, and I wish more people talked about goals, particularly financial goals, before the wedding. If one person is looking forward to early retirement (which means putting money into investments and savings), and the other wants to start his or her own business (which could mean taking money out of investments to start the business) they should discuss this.

Goals can change, obviously. But they need to start out by discussing goals, and not just assume the other person is a mind-reader.

Nancy
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Long before I met my wife, I dated numerous women



too easy


peace & resisting
t
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I'm always interested in whether people make good or bad decisions on who they marry. It seems like A LOT of people make poor decisions that later result in divorce.

We married young and had values in common plus some intriguing differences, but grew apart--not entirely, but enough to make the marriage an unhappy one for both of us. He became more uncommunicative, conservative, morose, and demanding of obedience along with the vicissitudes of life. He also became adamant about my getting a tubal ligation as he didn't want more children but mysteriously refused to get a vasectomy, which is a safer, less invasive procedure. He also didn't want me to go back to work at a real job, but low-end work to help make ends meet while the kids were in school. He suggested school crossing guard, despite my college education. Anyway, after all this, I found out he was interested in a much younger woman he met at work who became his second wife, with whom he had several more children. I also became interested in someone else so the desire for a divorce was mutual. There weren't particular financial problems--we were working poor to lower middle class, but LBOM.

We had children together so I've seen the ex periodically since the divorce, and every time I'm glad we ended the marriage.

Whenever I've gotten a mortgage since our divorce, his records were a bit mixed up with mine so the financial challenges in his second marriage became apparent to me. I assume that's his second wife's doing as he was never a spender and we never had consumer debt.
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"too easy"

And who exactly was I supposed to date?
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<<I owed about $1500 on a Dell computer I had purchased prior to meeting my wife. She advised me that she wouldn't ever marry me as long as I still had that debt. The day she told me that is the day I knew she was the woman I wanted to marry.>>

So what debts did she have?

None.
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sigh-
my point was that it would have been too easy to make a snarky comment there and I was (for once) not doing so.



peace & paving the road to hell
t
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