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Well, my Labrador Retriever Harlie does have very big, webbed paws.

http://www.theolympian.com/649/story/1024840.html

Well, that's a rough paraphrase of a New Zealand study that claims a medium-size dog leaves a larger ecological footprint than an SUV.

In "Time to Eat the Dog? The Real Guide to Sustainable Living," authors Robert and Brenda Vale argue that resources required to feed a dog - including the amount of land needed to feed the animals that go into its food - give it about twice the eco-footprint of, say, building and fueling a Toyota Land Cruiser. Noting that a cat's pawprint was roughly equivalent to a Volkswagen Golf's, "New Scientist" (www.newscientist.com) asked an environmentalist at the Stockholm Environment Institute in York, U.K., to independently calculate animals' environmental impact, and reported that "his figures tallied almost exactly." The study apparently didn't take into account the emissions of either the SUV or the dogs.

</snip>


intercst
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Yes, you can't be a greenie and own anything but a chihuahua or poodle...and even they have a carbon foot print.

Of course, the greenies are nuts.....

I can't wait to see until we get to put a carbon tax on dog food. Say about $10/week? Then we can send that money to AFrica and Mongolia (social justice) with wealth redistribution, so they can afford dogs to guard their crops against predators.

t.
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The study apparently didn't take into account the emissions of either the SUV or the dogs.
Gee, that seems reasonable;-/
What the heck.
--Alan
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When I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was about Fidelity Investments and I said to myself, "I'm glad my money is with Vanguard."

-drip
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<<I can't wait to see until we get to put a carbon tax on dog food. Say about $10/week? Then we can send that money to AFrica and Mongolia (social justice) with wealth redistribution, so they can afford dogs to guard their crops against predators.

t.
>>



What about CATS? Surely they are evil!



Seattle Pioneer
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The study apparently didn't take into account the emissions of either the SUV or the dogs.
-----------------------------
Gee, that seems reasonable;-/
What the heck. --Alan



Well Bonnie and I chose not to have children so that ought to count for something, allowing us some leeway in having a small dog and a cat?

As far as I'm concerned the kindest thing you can do for the environment is to choose not to have kids.

Art
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What about CATS? Surely they are evil! - Seattle Pioneer


Any animal that catches and kills rodents is all right in my book. I'm even willing to sacrifice a few birds just to keep the mouse and rat populations in check. I wish we had more rat snakes around our house too.

Art
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A are a couple of versions of the story with a little more detail about the calculations.

http://23narchy.com/even-medium-sized-dogs-have-twice-the-ca...

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/10/23/Book-Dog-SUV-have-sam...

I suspect if they studied the carbon footprint of many wild animals they might be able to justify hunting them to extinction. And if they include children in the study, we have a sound argument for more and freer access to abortion.
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"What about CATS? Surely they are evil! - Seattle Pioneer"

My sister had a cat in Togo (africa) which she brought home after her 2 1/2 year stint in the Peace Corps.....

Over there, it was never fed. It caught its dinner every day.

Over here, if they let it out, it will fend for itself.....no need to feed it..but most of the time, they keep it in the house for the protection of the neighborhood dogs and cats. It is a vicious cat that knows how to fight.

When you visit where it lives, you won't see it.....it hides until guests disappear..... very easily spooked...

Over here, we waste a lot of good food (meat) fed to cats..just think of all the starving folks in Africa who go to bed hungry when you feed your cat or dog.

t.
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"I suspect if they studied the carbon footprint of many wild animals they might be able to justify hunting them to extinction."

The greenie are out to ban beef.

You realize that all the cows in the world burp methane, which is 25 times worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.....

One hamburger is equivalent to driving a SUV around for a week.....in heating up the planet.

But you sure don't hear AL the idiot Gore giving up HIS hamburgers, do you? The chunky guy......or the other 98% of the greenie libs....

You need to be a vegan to 'save the planet'..and that is coming. After CO2, it will be methane from cows. They never stop.

t.
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Over here, we waste a lot of good food (meat) fed to cats..just think of all the starving folks in Africa who go to bed hungry when you feed your cat or dog. - tele
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They don't put the good stuff in cat food. It's all the stuff that I throw out when I'm cleaning fish I caught myself. For instance they put the heads, guts, hearts, esophagus, and from the tuna they put the dark red line that runs down the sides.

Dog food has chicken heads, feet, beaks, esophaguses and tracheas, lungs, kidneys, etc. in it. In fact the cheaper brands of dog food has "meat and bone meal" which is made from tankage which is like condemned cows and horses and god knows what else in it. When I used to work at the Vet School all the stuff that went out the back of Necropsy got sent to the rendering plant and turned into meat and bone meal.

So, if you'd like start eating the stuff they put in dog and cat food I'm sure I could hook you up. I got a friend in East Tennessee that runs a small custom slaughterhouse and we could arrange for you to stop by there and carry home some guts and cow heads the next time your passing through there.

Art
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"So, if you'd like start eating the stuff they put in dog and cat food I'm sure I could hook you up. I got a friend in East Tennessee that runs a small custom slaughterhouse and we could arrange for you to stop by there and carry home some guts and cow heads the next time your passing through there."

The Chinese eat everything from a cow or pig..other than the 'squeal'.....

You do watch Anthony Bourdain and the other guy on the weird food program?

Heck, they make sausage from the intestines here...... and haven't you heard of tripe?

Last time I checked, monkey heads are great stuff in India, if you believe the Indiana Jones movies. I'm sure cow heads would do just as well.

Great green gobs of greasy, grimy gopher guts, mutilated monkey meat, putrified porkupine..........and I forget the rest


t.
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Great green gobs of greasy, grimy gopher guts, mutilated monkey meat, putrified porkupine..........and I forget the rest - tele


Remember when Anthony Bourdain went to Viet Nam and they stopped up in the mountains somewhere and Tony asked the little guide guy what they were having and he said "I think it's squeezel!" The only thing Tony could get out of him was "squeezel!" It was friggin hilarious!

So while they were eating Tony pulled a porcupine quill out of the meat and he said "Oh! Porcupine!" But later on Tony said that meal made him sick so maybe he was eating putrified porcupine!

This is it! Hilarious!

No Reservations - Viet Nam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWSvv7hmWSU&feature=relat...

Art
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They don't put the good stuff in cat food. It's all the stuff that I throw out when I'm cleaning fish I caught myself. For instance they put the heads, guts, hearts, esophagus, and from the tuna they put the dark red line that runs down the sides.

Dog food has chicken heads, feet, beaks, esophaguses and tracheas, lungs, kidneys, etc. in it. In fact the cheaper brands of dog food has "meat and bone meal" which is made from tankage which is like condemned cows and horses and god knows what else in it. When I used to work at the Vet School all the stuff that went out the back of Necropsy got sent to the rendering plant and turned into meat and bone meal.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking about these facts when I read the article. There is no doubt, raising meat (especially cattle) for consumption is a major impact on carbon footprint. But dogs and cats don't really expand the human footprint caused by raising animals for food so much as they extend the usefulness of the footprint already created. If they weren't making dog and cat food out of those by-products, much of it would likely simply be discarded.

In this study, I believe they simply counted up kilos of meat by-products required to feed Fido and assumed the same ratio of meat to hectares required to raise animals for human consumption.
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"I was thinking about these facts when I read the article. There is no doubt, raising meat (especially cattle) for consumption is a major impact on carbon footprint. But dogs and cats don't really expand the human footprint caused by raising animals for food so much as they extend the usefulness of the footprint already created. If they weren't making dog and cat food out of those by-products, much of it would likely simply be discarded.

In this study, I believe they simply counted up kilos of meat by-products required to feed Fido and assumed the same ratio of meat to hectares required to raise animals for human consumption.""

Whether you feed Fido vegan or not, Fido breathes out CO2 in prodigous amounts. If Fido weighs 25 or 50 lbs, that is lots of weight consuming calories and turning into CO2. If everyone owned a pet dog, that is 6.5 billion extra beings spewing out CO2.

Not only that, but to raise the food, you chop down trees..clear out areas..that would turn CO2 back into O.......

The greenies think you should not be eating meat. SO there would be no byproducts in a greenie world. You eat vegan. Period. And of course, PETA and the rest go along since you are torturing those animals those whole lives.

t.
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The greenies think you should not be eating meat. SO there would be no byproducts in a greenie world. You eat vegan.

There are certainly extremists for every belief. While I'm pretty green, I think most Americans should eat less meat, not necessarily none unless that's a personal preference.

Here's how much meat the average American consumed, by type, in 2007:

_Chicken: 84.9 pounds
_Beef: 63.5 pounds
_Pork: 48.2 pounds
_Turkey: 17.5 pounds
_Lamb and Mutton: 1 pound


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-11-14-3913750537_...

That's 112 lbs of red meat and 102 lbs of poultry a year. I'd estimate that DH and I each eat more like 25 lbs of red meat and 50 lbs of poultry a year.

This is also interesting:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/DietQuality/Availability.ht...

Looks like beef consumption peaked around 1978, chicken consumption has risen to meet beef consumption, and pork consumption has been rising very slowly over the past century.

=alstro, for dinner typically eats red meat once a week (more likely pork or lamb than beef), poultry twice a week, fish twice (fin-fish once and shellfish once), and vegetarian twice (usually one vegan and one with some egg or cheese).
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If they weren't making dog and cat food out of those by-products, much of it would likely simply be discarded. - salaryguru
------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is to say that a dog or a cat's life is any less worthwhile than any humans life? My dog is a whole lot more faithful and loyal than I am. It's not like the Earth has a shortage of humans on it anyway? There are 6.7 billion of us and growing. If anything humans are a plague on this planet and it might be beneficial if a few billion of us weren't here? As far as I am concerned I wish humans would use more restraint in reproducing. Dogs and cats aren't the problem, people are.

I suppose all the guts and heads and feet and bones could be turned directly into fertilizer but if you think about it, it is turned into fertilizer only after having run through the gut of a dog or a cat? In fact a lot of cat manure gets run through a second time by being eaten by a dog and re-digested and then excreted for a second time. For some reason dogs think cat feces tastes delicious.

Nothing really ever gets wasted. Stuff we are currently burying in landfills will one day be squished and heated by the earths crust and then subducted deep under the earth where it will be melted and turned into rocks to rise again millions of years in the future like dinosaur bones.

Or it will be dug up by our descendants and they will mine it to get the minerals and chemicals out and use them; perhaps after they either develop more efficient ways to use them or they are living a very primitive life and are just so desperate for metals and plastic and stuff that they are living a very minimalistic lifestyle.

Either way, nothing gets wasted. It's always there and will be re-cycled over and over again.

Art
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Whether you feed Fido vegan or not, Fido breathes out CO2 in prodigous amounts. If Fido weighs 25 or 50 lbs, that is lots of weight consuming calories and turning into CO2. If everyone owned a pet dog, that is 6.5 billion extra beings spewing out CO2. - tele
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Some dogs are a lot more noble than a lot of people. Cats catch mice and rats and if you've ever had a plague of rodents invade your house you'll understand how important it is to keep the bloody rodents in check.

Looked what happened during the dark ages when they killed off all the cats and then the plague virus came and killed millions of people.

And by the way, my little terrier loves killing rats, mice, and squirrels and thats a pretty important job in my book.

Art
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=alstro, for dinner typically eats red meat once a week (more likely pork or lamb than beef), poultry twice a week, fish twice (fin-fish once and shellfish once), and vegetarian twice (usually one vegan and one with some egg or cheese).
--------------------------------

I eat meat every day and I am thinking about eating some flat iron steak for lunch today.

Yesterday I had fried chicken smothered in Louisana Hot Sauce and it was delicious.

I also like seafood and eat as much of it as I can afford.

I'm trying to make a lot of good memories to carry over with me into the Spiritual Universe.

"Suddenly I thought of a mountain, I had seen as a child. When I looked up from the road there it was; The Mountain! Not just the mountain! But the most breathtaking mountain I had ever seen! Details the likes of which no one could imagine. Colors shades of color, shadows for which there are no words in the human language to describe it." - excerpt from Mark H's NDE,
http://www.nderf.org/mark_h%27s_nde.htm


Art
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Dog food has chicken heads, feet, beaks, esophaguses and tracheas, lungs, kidneys, etc. in it.

mmmmmm! sounds like a Ballpark Frank.

I Have a friend whose mom worked at a hormel processing plant for a few months in the 70's. She still won't eat processed foods.

cliff
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I Have a friend whose mom worked at a hormel processing plant for a few months in the 70's. She still won't eat processed foods. - cliff
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I've worked in an abbatoir my freshman year in college at the UGA Food Science department, one summer at Hormel in Atlanta, cutting meat at Winn Dixie in Vero Beach, Florida for a year and half, as a meat cutter at IGA in Knoxville for a year...

And I'll eat anything including Vienna Sausages which have lips, snouts, weasands (esophagus), and other things.

Parts is parts.

Art
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I got a friend in East Tennessee that runs a small custom slaughterhouse and we could arrange for you to stop by there and carry home some guts and cow heads the next time your passing through there.

I hope your friend is making big bucks selling the offal to tony restaurants. Many foodies are gaga over guts.

It's interesting that in the US this is considered either garbage or a delicacy. In many parts of the world, and among poor people just about everywhere, it's a staple. My father was especially fond of head cheese.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool
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And I'll eat anything including Vienna Sausages which have lips, snouts, weasands (esophagus), and other things.

Parts is parts.


Hey. I say bring it on. That's what gives flavor to those little sausages (Are those vienna sausages or just your fingers?).

However, I do believe there might be more vegans if they saw what goes on in a meat processing plant.....

cliff
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I hope your friend is making big bucks selling the offal to tony restaurants. Many foodies are gaga over guts.

It's interesting that in the US this is considered either garbage or a delicacy. In many parts of the world, and among poor people just about everywhere, it's a staple. My father was especially fond of head cheese.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

------------------------------------------

It's not inspected to sell to restaurants and/or retail. It's a custom slaughterhouse that kills and butchers animals that people have raised themselves. You take your cow or pig or sheep to them and they kill it, skin it, gut it, and then hang it up to age (go through rigor) for like a week and then you take it to a place that finishes cutting it up and wrapping it for you.

Steven Helms - Helms Custom Slaughtering Co. - 865-992-3515 ...
Steven Helms detailed profile, located in Maynardville, you may call them at 865-992-3515.
http://www.manufacturedirections.com/.../760814-steven-helms...

Art
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Whether you feed Fido vegan or not, Fido breathes out CO2 in prodigous amounts.

Of course the article says explicitly that the study did not include this in the calculation. And it did not include the exhaust from the SUV. If it did include both, then Fido's footprint probably begins to look significantly smaller than the SUV.
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Of course the article says explicitly that the study did not include this in the calculation. And it did not include the exhaust from the SUV. If it did include both, then Fido's footprint probably begins to look significantly smaller than the SUV. - salaryguru
----------------------------


It might also have something to do with the size of the canine. My dog, Hardy, probably weighs between 16-20 lbs. He is a mixture between a rat terrier and a Cairn Terrier. Our neighbors dog, Lady, is a purebred yellow Labrador Retriever and probably weighs a good 80+ lbs. There has got to be some difference.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't think I really care all that much. The truth is that I have really enjoyed the nice mild snow free winters we've had the last few years and I'm hoping they continue. It makes it a whole lot safer for my beloved to drive to work so she can continue to support me in the manner to which I've grown accustomed.

I also wouldn't mind if the ocean rose enough to come up to middle Alabama so I wouldn't have to drive so far to get to the beach; not to mention I think I would enjoy being able to grow mangoes, guavas, pineapples, and citrus trees & fruit in Middle Tennessee.

And yes, I know I'm somewhat selfish but I did run out and get a vasectomy when I was 27 years old so at least the selfishness stops with me. I'm not leaving any offspring to continue my self obsessed lifestyle.

Art
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