No. of Recommendations: 32
Most reports are saying that the majority of voting problems are in Florida.

Now here's a question:

When you had the largest voting fiasco in US History, and you have FOUR YEARS to fix it, why are there still so many #@%$! problems?????!!!!

Answer:

Because a Bush is running the show down there.

(Countdown seconds before a Repub fires back with some racist comment about the type of people who 'don't know how to vote'....10...9...8..7...6...)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Because a Bush is running the show down there.

There you go again, blaming Bush for EVERYTHING. Two words I like to introduce to those who are not familiar, "accountability" and "responsibility". Yes - hard to fathom but there are people other than Bush who are responsibile and accountable for the actions, their successes and failings.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
Yes - hard to fathom but there are people other than Bush who are responsibile and accountable for the actions, their successes and failings.

Yep, they're called Bush appointees, and Bush supporters.

Those that worked to get them elected and those who benefitted from those efforts.

PosFCF
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Most reports are saying that the majority of voting problems are in Florida.

Now here's a question:

When you had the largest voting fiasco in US History, and you have FOUR YEARS to fix it, why are there still so many #@%$! problems?????!!!!

Answer:

Because a Bush is running the show down there.


Hi. My name is Albaby, and I'm a Florida resident. It's been four years since I last voted for President.

"Hi, Albaby!"

Actually, most of the more significant problems that have occurred so far have been at the local (ie. County) level. While election certification and administration of state election law is handled by the Florida Secretary of State, much of the implementation is conducted by locally-elected or -appointed Elections Supervisors. Their actions are hardly attributable to the Governor or his appointees.

Most of the early snafus are the result of local foul-ups. The worst appears to have been in Broward County, where thousands of absentee ballots were brought to the Post Office on Saturday afternoon, with the wishful expectation that they might be delivered and returned by Election Day. Broward County is one of the most Democratic counties in the state, and their elections official is a Dem.

Albaby
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Hi, Albaby:

As a Floridian, are you troubled at all by the fact that changes in Florida law has increasingly given the job of supervising the election to a partisan political appointee rather than some form of bi-partisan election commission?

Just asking.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Yeah, I'm a Florida resident too.

Actually, most of the more significant problems that have occurred so far have been at the local (ie. County) level.

Ummmm, maybe our definition of significant is different? I thought it pretty significant that the purge list of felons (done on the State level) was again so inaccurate (oddly enough, apparently in favor of the Party in power) that a court struck it down and, at the State level it finally was withdrawn. I thought it significant that a court struck down the placement of Nader on the absentee ballots because he didn't qualify (according to the State election code) to be on it, but the Party in power decided to ignore the court and put it on anyway.

This is not to say that there are not problems at the local level, just disagreeing with the characterisation that the significant problems are all of a local level.

Hi. My name is Albaby, and I'm a Florida resident. It's been four years since I last voted for President.

Keep coming back, the fog wears off after a while, and the thinking clears up.

PosFCF
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
As a Floridian, are you troubled at all by the fact that changes in Florida law has increasingly given the job of supervising the election to a partisan political appointee rather than some form of bi-partisan election commission?

Hey, Teddy.

I dislike intensely the fact that elections supervision is conducted by partisan appointees/candidates....but I'm not aware of any recent changes that affected that. The Secretary of State has had been the state's chief elections supervisor for years, as far as I know. If there were any changes, they would have been incremental.



PosFCF,

The felon list was indeed a major malfunction, but that's been over and done for a while. The state's decision to leave Nader on the ballot was ultimately upheld 6-1 by the state Supreme Court. I know one of the lawyers who was on that case, and we talked about it at length. He believed that on the law, it wasn't even close - and after our discussions, I'm pretty sure he's right. So I wouldn't regard that as a screw-up.

Albaby
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0


The Secretary of State has had been the state's chief elections supervisor for years, as far as I know.

Isn't former Orlando Mayor Glenda Hood, J. Bush appointee, the current Secretary of State?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
mxylplik writes: "There you go again, blaming Bush for EVERYTHING [ about Florida]." Two words I like to introduce to those who are not familiar, "accountability" and "responsibility". Yes - hard to fathom but there are people other than Bush who are responsibile and accountable for the actions, their successes and failings. <
===========================

Last I heard, Bush is the president, and J Bush is Florida's governor.

In my view, A BUSH, George or Jeb, has to take the lead & responsibility for ensuring smooth voting in Florida.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I'm sorry Albaby, but what you say makes no sense. We're talking about the election of the President of the USA here - not some local mayor!

Unfortunately, the electoral college system means a single vote can be the difference between a state going Republican and a state going Democrat. As we all know, if Al Gore had won Florida in 2000, he would have been President and the US wouldn't (whatever you think) be in the mess it is today.

When Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris decided to purge the electoral register and inadvertantly (or illegally) disenfranchised thousands of voters, they almost certainly changed the course of history.

They've had four years to correct these mistakes but, by all accounts, things are even worse this year.

It is the Governor's responsibility to ensure that the voting system is credible. The fact that it's not, the fact that the Governor of Florida is George W Bush's brother and the fact that his (let's be generous) mistakes in 2000 got his brother into the White House is more than just fishy - it's a clear case of corruption.

I just hope these shenanigans don't keep another Democrat out of the White House.

If they do, I think we can safely say:

US Democracy 1776 - 2004 RIP!!!

deejay7
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
TP2004: "Because a Bush is running the show down there."

Sorry, but County officials run the elections and those counties last time with the most ballot problems were all run by DEMOCRATS.

Veloci
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
I'm sorry Albaby, but what you say makes no sense. We're talking about the election of the President of the USA here - not some local mayor!

Well, the process for casting votes for the President of the United States and the mayor are exactly the same - at least here in Florida, and I presume in most other places. You've got a local administrator (typically a County post) who is in charge of printing the ballots and running the polling places, and a state official (here, the Secretary of State) who is in charge of implementing state election rules, to the extent they come up.

Some of the more disappointing problems that have been surfacing lately in Florida (the failure to mail out absentee ballots in Broward County, early polling places with malfunctioning equipment, electronic machines without paper trails) have been thoroughly within the control of the local officials. To the extent that those local officials are partisans, they've been Democrats. At least under Florida law, it's not just the Governor's job to make sure that the voting system is credible, since there are wide areas of the election process that are solely in the hands of local officials.

Yes, the Secretary of State is a partisan position - and that's not a good thing, to my mind. But it's not tantamount to automatic voter fraud. While many of the calls that have been made in Florida in this election have favored the GOP, most of them have been found to be correct when taken to a court of law. Strict application of election laws will result in de-registration (no matter who does it); and while we might not view that as a good thing, the correct antidote is to liberalize the voter registration laws.

Albaby
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Albaby1:

I had heard the Sec. of State in Fla. had acquired greater powers. Sorry I don't have a link. If you, a lawyer, are unaware of this, I am going to assume it's just another election scare story.

I agree with you that partisan appointees shouldn't be doing the job of supervising elections.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Because a Bush is running the show down there.

There you go again, blaming Bush for EVERYTHING.


You don't get it. He's referring to the Presidents brother. Jeb Bush is the Gov of FL.

And he was a lot of the problem in 2000.

FL voter
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Sorry, but County officials run the elections and those counties last time with the most ballot problems were all run by DEMOCRATS.

Veloci


Sorry for you, Veloci-- Doesn't matter who runs the election on the local level. The arbiters of disputes AND the people responsible for fixing the system lies with the Governor and Secretary of State: Gov. Jeb Bush and his appointee, Glenda Hood.

Both, as you may know, are Republicans. The buck stops with them when it comes to the election process in Florida.

For starters, it was Jeb that prevented electronic voting machines from requiring paper backup. Not some little old lady in West Palm.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
TP2004 wrote:

For starters, it was Jeb that prevented electronic voting machines from requiring paper backup. Not some little old lady in West Palm.

I'd like to see a citation for that assertion.

Counties had the option which election machines to purchase - I happened to be at the public hearings here in Dade where the Commission decided which ones to buy. They made those decisions years ago. None of the manufacturers of electronic voting equipment approached the state for certification of a "paper backup" machine until earlier this year.

I'm not aware of any action taken by the Governor's office to interfere with those local decisions. I'd be curious if you had a link.

Albaby
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Jeb Bush is a Richard Cranium from the word go, and I don't think he really does his brother too many favors in the long run.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
You don't get it. He's referring to the Presidents brother. Jeb Bush is the Gov of FL.

No I got it, anything Jeb does must also be G.W. Bush's fault.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
"...When you had the largest voting fiasco in US History, and you have FOUR YEARS to fix it, why are there still so many #@%$! problems?????!!!!

Answer:

Because a Bush is running the show down there.... "
---------

Had a problem with your 'butterfly' last time?

Thanks for the ignorance/stupidity lemming reminder post.

Good luck.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I'm not aware of any action taken by the Governor's office to interfere with those local decisions. I'd be curious if you had a link.

Independent auditors requested a security audit and paper trail on the electronic machines. Jeb Bush said no dice, and his well-publicized answer was basically, "We (meaning he) have great confidence in these machines and no audit is necessary."

It has made many articles. This is the quickest I could find:

Some states, worried about the potential for abuse with voting machines that leave no paper trail, have banned their use this November. But Florida, which may well decide the presidential race, is not among those states, and last month state officials rejected a request to allow independent audits of the machines' integrity. A spokesman for Gov. Jeb Bush accused those seeking audits of trying to "undermine voters' confidence," and declared, "The governor has every confidence in the Department of State and the Division of Elections."

...
Let's not be coy. Jeb Bush says he won't allow an independent examination of voting machines because he has "every confidence" in his handpicked election officials. Yet those officials have a history of slipshod performance on other matters related to voting and somehow their errors always end up favoring Republicans. Why should anyone trust their verdict on the integrity of voting machines, when another convenient mistake could deliver a Republican victory in a high-stakes national election?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/27/opinion/27krug.html

Also:

Several Florida county officials have asked the state to mandate a voter-verified paper trail in the state. But Gov. Jeb Bush and state legislators have said they're not interested.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,62206,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Print the post Back To Top