A couple of anecdotes...When I picked up my Thai takeout at 5pm yesterday, I asked when they were going to resume serving lunch (they stopped at the beginning of the pandemic). I promised to get lunch a few times a month if they did! And noted they always used to be quite busy at lunch time so I felt sure it would be a good ROI. Answer? Can't hire enough people to manage busy lunches :-/My son took an unpaid leave of absence for this school year. His GF, a fellow teacher, is doing the same. How can they do this? DS has enough savings to pay all essential expenses for 2-3 years. I imagine GF has about the same--they're both frugal, still living in the small condo DS bought at age 27 (they are now early 40s--and no kids). GF started a crafting business early in the pandemic. DS now works as a craftsman, too. They made almost $2k at a single weekend-long crafts fair a few weeks ago. They do one or two fairs every weekend all fall (peak craft season). And have a few online storefronts that pull in steady income as well. Anyhow, the business pays its own expenses plus they make enough to live on so no need to touch savings (yet), the stress is low, and they are happier and healthier. Although they put in long hours at crafting, they're enjoying it. GF is incredibly creative & artistic (unable to make much use of these skills as a phys ed teacher!)--she designs everything. DS measures and cuts, sands & puts on primer coats, and is learning how to use GF's fancy sewing machine. They rent inexpensive artisan space in a former warehouse in a nearby town, where they also get to meet other artisans.
Likely it is more "can't hire enough people for what I'm willing to pay".Minimum wage hasn't kept pace with inflation, and restaurant workers have a lower wage than that. I think people aren't willing to tolerate that anymore.The sandwich shop that 1poorkid used to work in actually paid a decent wage, and when you paid there was no space to include a tip. Some customers still insisted on tipping, but the kids did their work without it in part because they were paid a reasonable wage for the work (roughly $15/hr). I encountered a donut shop guy yesterday that made the off-hand comment (I forget the precise context, but it was meant as sarcastic humor) about the joys of working for 4-something per hour. People are less willing to endure that.I think the minimum wage should be the same for all workers, and that restaurants shouldn't be allowed to rely on tips to make wages. If someone wants to tip, fine. But workers' earnings shouldn't be predicated on that. In fact, tips are racist. They have their origins when black and white servers would work in the same place. The employer couldn't discriminate on the wages, so the "tip" was invented so customers could offer more for the white workers while keeping the black workers underpaid. Of course, they could tip the black servers as well. But they usually didn't.
" In fact, tips are racist. They have their origins when black and white servers would work in the same place. The employer couldn't discriminate on the wages, so the "tip" was invented so customers could offer more for the white workers while keeping the black workers underpaid. Of course, they could tip the black servers as well. But they usually didn't. "why does everything degenerate into the 'race card'. Yes, back in the 1850s and 1860s, long before you and I were born, in our great great grandparents era....when slavery was still legal....... what you said is correct. However, nearly 160 years later, five generations later.......that's not the case. I doubt many restaurants can keep people if they aren't paying them $15/hr around here in suburbia...or more. Or fast food places - other than maybe kids for 10-20 hours a week for part time jobs on weekends or evenings.....who might make $12. Out in rural places a bit less. t.
Tipping has been around for ages, never considered the race of the server, delivery person, contractor's helpers, hotel staff, anywhere in the world, much less locally.. Our kids, other family members worked in restaurants, between jobs, at college, whatever, but we; always tipped on the heavy site, 20% or more depending on the situation... Inlaws when we went to Mexico, same game, keep the help happy, have a great time, little extras happen, everyone wins. Difference there was I wasn't given a chance to pick up the tab anywhere, but they are very generous, always have been... Now, with Covid, a meal out is rare, some of us have shuffled homes, situations, so not as many gatherings, hopefully it changes for the better... Many times a bit of a chance to get to know the servers story, where they are headed in college, etc.. Some really great kids out there!
It has. But in America it was used to underplay blacks (short version). This article goes into a bit more detail.https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-b...There’s another provision in the legislation—eliminating the subminimum tipped wage—that corrects a wrong that goes much further back than the previous federal minimum wage increase....Tipping originated in feudal Europe and was imported back to the United States by American travelers eager to seem sophisticated. The practice spread throughout the country after the Civil War as U.S. employers, largely in the hospitality sector, looked for ways to avoid paying formerly enslaved workers.Tipping pretty much doesn't exist in Europe, even though that's where it originated. They are paid a decent wage, they have healthcare and pensions, so they don't need it. It's common to "keep the change", but that's about it. Yes, in the US everything seems to come back to racism and slavery. Perhaps because that was a big part of our history, and we are still dealing with the legacies from that.
The minimum wage in Georgia for servers is $2.13
The minimum wage in Georgia for servers is $2.13And people wonder why they can't get employees?? (I don't know the situation in GA, I am just commenting generally of business -especially restaurants- that complain they can't find people.)I would not work for 2.13/hr today. Even if I had no education. I'd find something else (janitor, ditch-digger...any honest honorable work) rather than be a server and have to deal with people for the insult of 2.13/hr.
Well, locally we're so lilly white, it's never been an issue, but we do have a lot of many other races, as a coastal port area, folks from all over the Pacific and beyond, family, friends, many mixes, pretty much a variety pack beyond my own Danish/Polish/Irish mix... Europe, while tipping isn't expected like here, we still do it anyway, a few euros can't hurt their day... Ages ago, working in a Service Station, a few customers always tipped, most didn't but it was always appreciated, further back as a newpaper carrier, again, a few tipped, most didn't... It all helped at the time... All positive, not punitive...
1pg:"Tipping pretty much doesn't exist in Europe, even though that's where it originated. They are paid a decent wage, they have healthcare and pensions, so they don't need it. "That's because they already add a 20% 'service charge' to your bill! whether the service was good, bad, indifferent or horrible. t.
$2.13 min? Really? Sad, really sad... That is not far off slave wages... maybe $75 a week take home? Crazy...
I tjink it was 1960 or near it, I went to work in a local sheet metal shop for $2.08 an hour... But I still lived at home, got by on it, but...
wecoguy wrote I tjink it was 1960 or near it, I went to work in a local sheet metal shop for $2.08Yea - but some perspective on that is useful. Based on the value of a dollar vs 2021 currencies, you earned $17.20 an hour and the cost of hamburger in 1960 was $0.21
whether the service was good, bad, indifferent or horrible. Why are waiters at the mercy of their customers to determine if they are doing a good job? Isn't that what management is there for?When I go to any establishment, I expect that the employees are paid to do the job they are doing. I would find it very weird if Bill Gates expected me to throw him a couple of extra bucks if an Excel spreadsheet added up correctly, or tipping the plumber when the faucet doesn't leak after she replaces it.I realize the low wage + tip expectation is baked into the American dining experience, but it is a weird business model that forces waiters to put up with low to high levels of abuse to get the tips they need to survive.
Actually, I think the poster you're responding to is incorrect. I don't recall anything added to my bill when I was in Europe. Maybe a VAT in some places. I know there's VAT in Canada.They pay their people decently, and the price on the menu is the price. Plus tax. Certainly no mandatory "gratuity" anywhere we went. Unlike cruise ships and some restaurants in the US.
Actually, I think the poster you're responding to is incorrect. I don't recall anything added to my bill when I was in Europe. Maybe a VAT in some places. I know there's VAT in Canada.My (possibly flawed) memory is that in Germany there was often a 10% "service" added to the bill at many restaurants.CNC
Maybe a European Fool can comment. I don't remember that, but then I didn't focus on the charges. I just pulled out my card (with PIN, so I didn't have to sign those silly receipts).Most US restaurants add a 20%+ gratuity for groups of 6 or larger. Though some are now discouraging tipping (e.g. 1poorkid's former sandwich shop).Service in Europe was fine. It was as attentive as US service. Paying people a living wage didn't seem to result in degraded service.
" I don't recall anything added to my bill when I was in Europe"From Rick Steeves: (the travel guru) In Mediterranean countries, the "service charge" (servizio in Italian, service in French, servicio in Spanish) can be handled in different ways. Sometimes the menu will note that the service is included ("servizio incluso"), meaning that the prices listed on the menu already have this charge built in. When the service is not included ("servizio non incluso"), the service charge might show up as a separate line item at the end of your bill. Fixed-price tourist deals include service.In northern and eastern Europe, the menu or bill is less likely to address the "service charge," but you can usually assume that it's included in the prices. Lately, some restaurants — especially those in well-touristed areas in Germany and Austria — have added a "Tip is not included" line, in English, to the bottom of the bill. This is misleading, as the prices on any menu in these countries do include service. I wouldn't tip one cent more at a restaurant that includes this note on the bill."t
forgot the link to Rick Steeves on EU tippinghttps://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/tipping-in-euro...t
Can't hire enough people to manage busy lunches :-/There are not enough custom camper vans in America. I am willing to pay up to $500 for a camper van, but no one will offer me one at that price. How is labor any different?
the prices listed on the menu already have this charge built in. When the service is not included ("servizio non incluso"), the service charge might show up as a separate line item at the end of your bill. Fixed-price tourist deals include service.In northern and eastern Europe, the menu or bill is less likely to address the "service charge," but you can usually assume that it's included in the prices.So, the menu price includes what the server is being paid? If the restaurant pays its servers based on the price of the meal order, that's between them and the waitstaff.And is that 'service charge' all going to the server, or is it like Domino's delivery fee which doesn't go to the driver?
"And is that 'service charge' all going to the server, or is it like Domino's delivery fee which doesn't go to the driver? "Like all restaurants, it's likely split with the cooks, cleaners, and lower management staff in the restaurant....everyone who is there while you eat. The wine stewards might get their 'tips' from the alcohol you order at the fancier restaurants.....t.
I listened to a podcast, I think it was Freakonomics, about tipping. I'm not sure which one it was, but one of these, likely.https://freakonomics.com/podcast-tag/tipping/They did a study and found that blonde women with a certain build (think Pamela Anderson) get the highest tips. I did something I rarely do last week. I left a waitress with no tip whatsoever. I was at Buffalo Wild Wings. It wasn't busy, and there were 2 tables directly within our line of sight that she was also watching over. She went back and forth to their tables constantly. She came over to the table where my friend and I were sitting at the beginning of the Brown's game. Somebody else actually delivered the appetizer about halfway through Q1. We didn't see her for the rest of the first quarter. We didn't see her for the second quarter. We didn't see her during halftime. We finally saw her again 3 minutes into Q3. At the end of Q1, we had slid our glasses to the end of the table so that she would see that we needed refills. We didn't get refills until we received our food halfway into Q3. Sometime around early Q4, we saw a man approach the front area where the people stand to seat you, and he was complaining about the terrible service too. He was sitting on the opposite side of the divider, so I don't know who his server was. Well, at least the 2 tables directly next to me that she was waiting on got good service. TMFEdyboom223
Well, at least the 2 tables directly next to me that she was waiting on got good service.Maybe you weren't pretty enough?Pete
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