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Hello, I've been a long-time user of Folio Investing and decided to have my accounts automatically transferred to Interactive Brokers -- two IRA's and a taxable account.

With Folio, it was always so easy and seamless to buy and sell stocks simultaneously in the trading windows.

With IB so far, it seems as if it's requiring that funds from sales be fully settled before buys can be made with those funds. I sold some stocks today, and the proceeds are showing in "Settled Cash" but not in "Available Funds." It seems I'm not allowed to use the $ from the sales to buy anything.

Any info or guidance from someone familiar with IB surely appreciated!

Todd
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Might need a margin account.

"IRA margin accounts allow trading so the account can be fully invested"
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14429
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No. of Recommendations: 3
I also had all my accounts transferred to IB. So far I'm still confused about many things, and there does not appear to be an easy way to simulate the convenience of Folio's window trading.

Regarding buying with unsettled funds, it seems possible under the "free riding rule": https://ibkr.info/fr/node/814
But, I have no experience with that. I believe I opened all of my accounts as margin.


Mark
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If anyone has any guidance on this, I'd appreciate hearing it.

One of my problems is that I can't really trade during the day. FolioFN was very convenient for that.
Assuming that I still want to trade a blend of 20ish stocks, updated somewhat frequently, how to do that at IB? There are only two ways I can see.

One would be to use only MOO or MOC orders, which can be done with IBKR Lite (no commission).
The problem there is that some trades may turn out poor, in cases where there are no other trades at the open or close.

The other, complicated way would be to maintain the portfolio holdings in a spreadsheet and create the necessary orders there. Import them using the "basket" trader feature.
This would require IBKR Pro, with 0.005/share commission (assuming non-tiered), which would not be so smart for lower priced stocks, under $5 or so.
The advantage is that there are all kind of orders, for instance GAT (good after time) which you could use to send orders out at a certain hour.
There are also adaptive algorithms such as VWAP and whatnot that might get you better executions, especially if some of the orders end up being in relatively illiquid issues.

Anyway I'm still scratching my head about it all...

Mark
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This would require IBKR Pro, with 0.005/share commission

In the big scheme of things, that commission is negligible. Not as good as free, of course. But still....



which would not be so smart for lower priced stocks, under $5 or so.

Well, you could just avoid penny stocks. Always a smart thing to do, avoiding those.
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I think that M1finance is about the only place left for folio-type trading. Folio is gone, Motif is gone.
I recently moved a chunk of money there. To me, the way you set up your "pie" and "slice" is weird, but maybe if you are used to folio/motif it makes more sense.

As an added bonus, M1 is giving a bonus when you move money there.[*] As are a bunch of other brokers, of course. Use this referral link and get an extra $30 for just opening an account of any size: https://m1.finance/nmMqdALa1DwL

[*] For $100,000 is used to be $250, then at first of Jan was $300, now back to $250 again. They keep altering the deal; pray that they don't alter it further.
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MOO or MOC orders
These Were really big back in 2000
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IB is being unnecessarily sticky to require a margin account.

Regarding buying with unsettled funds, it seems possible under the "free riding rule"

SEC Regulation T's "free riding" subset is just this: if you sell Stock A, you can immediately use the proceeds to buy Stock B. You just are not permitted to sell Stock B until the A sale settles. There's no need under Reg T to have a margin account; this is permitted in cash accounts, too. Tighter restrictions like IB's are broker-specific.

I do this at TDA in both my taxable and IRA accounts. I'm able to trade during the day, though, and I don't use any form of basket trading.

Eric Hines
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In the big scheme of things, that commission is negligible. Not as good as free, of course. But still....

If it's a $5 stock, at $.005/share the commission is 0.1%; on a $10,000 order that's $10. For a $2 stock, it's $0.25% or $25.
On top of those, you have to add the spread that you're paying, and price movement.
No free lunch anywhere, but if MOO/MOC orders work just as well using Lite then at least you save the commission part.

Well, you could just avoid penny stocks. Always a smart thing to do, avoiding those.

Yes, I will most likely adjust what I do. Not necessarily smart to me; just what may have to be done.


Mark
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MOO or MOC orders
These Were really big back in 2000


I guess I'm 20 years behind the times in thinking about it!
Actually I had wanted to try them, but Folio did not offer them.

Mark
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Nothing is simple, is it?

Placed small experimental MOO buy order today for random ticker AVNW, 60 shares (it ended up trading 108K shares today).
Executed at 9:30:02 for $38.36.
IB (Trader Workstation) reports the opening price at $38.42.
Everywhere else (Yahoo, Google, Bigcharts) reports opening at $37.60.

????

I called IB, and after a fairly long hold, they said that opening prices vary by exchange.
This stock went to the Nasdaq, and he looked up the opening auction and said it was at $38.36.

I don't quite understand how all of the other places can be saying that $37.60 was the opening price.
Or, why TWS indicates $38.49. But, in the end I think I got the "real" opening price.


Mark

p.s. I also asked about using exclusively MOO/MOC orders using IB Lite.
It may work, but potentially you could get a partial or no fill if there are not enough other orders at the open/close auction.
No idea how often that might happen.
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'I called IB, and after a fairly long hold, '
Mark,

I also called IB yesterday. After waiting about 45 minutes I hung up. I tried later, and started cooking
supper about 15 minutes into my call, so, of course(!), they answered. I just assume the new Folio
people are swamping their phones.

I thought I saw a blurb to the effect that they may later add basket type trading. We can hope.

I don't know how difficult the trader workstation is to use, but I've had no real problems with
their light weight webtrader program the last ten years or so. I have been able to buy stocks
directly and cheaply from most major world markets, cheaply buy/sell options and other things that
my other accounts wouldn't do or only with large fees/commissions. If I wanted to buy corporate bonds at other brokers I'd call their bond people, wait to get a quote and generally
have to fool around, again with rather high costs. At IB all the bonds I've traded are as easy to
trade as stocks.

Give it some time, maybe you'll work out your problems.

rrjjgg
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Give it some time, maybe you'll work out your problems.

Yes, teething pains, I will work it out.

The guy I talked to said that, ironically, the pandemic has caused them to be overloaded.
He said everyone is sitting at home bored, and they are able to trade more.
Add to that the 70K or so Folio accounts coming over and they have their hands full.
That said, I waited about 15 minutes, and once I had the guy, I asked a bunch of questions.
He was helpful.

As near as I can tell, if one wants to actively trade an MI blend, like I was at Folio, it will take some work.
Buy/sell orders would have to be generated in a spreadsheet, and properly formatted orders could be put in a CSV file for import to their basket trader.
You could use GAT (good after time) 11:00 AM or whenever and one of their fancy algorithms like VWAP or pegged-to-midpoint orders to hopefully minimize market impact and get good fills.
All of this could be done in advance, so you wouldn't have to be at a computer during the day.

IB has too many choices and TWS is rather confusing. It will take a while.


Mark
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Mark as a suggestion you could try Fidelity, which has both fractional trading now as well as basket trading at $0 commission at all. Their basket, in convenience, is somewhere between IBs and Folio's; you can create a basket from typed in symbols, a watchlist (which can be uploaded from a spreadsheet) or, just uploaded from a spreadsheet. You have to tell it per stock what to do in either $ or shares, by just selecting a radio button or a "sell all" function. Each basket is its own group. They don't have the service wait time of IB at the moment and the research tools are decent.

Executions are excellent. They don't allow MOC entry or shorts outside of market hours, and they don't go in for shorting lower volume small caps.

Then again YMMV, just a thought.

FC
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Thanks for the suggestion FC. What kind of orders can you use with their basket? Market and or/limit?
If you use a market order, you can get bad executions, and if you use a limit order and the price starts moving on you, that means you have to be around to adjust the limit price.
Or do they have a way of getting good fills that does not require you to be monitoring the trades?


Mark
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No. of Recommendations: 4
For those who are willing to pay commissions the Pro interface has a "Rebalance Feature" that you can add to your top icon bar. Using that feature you put in your symbols, set the percentages you want the symbols to be of your portfolio and it will automatically generate the necessary buys/sells based on the latest close from when you hit the "Create Rebalance Orders" button.

You can also mess with defaults to set dollars vs. shares and use fractional shares if that's what you prefer.

Personally, I think if you have a portfolio of any decent size you should go the commissions route for better executions. Side note: On another board I've read that IB is working on a Folio-like trading approach that should be out sometime this summer. (Don't know if that is true since I moved my Folio stuff to M1 a couple of years ago.)

I have accounts with multiple brokers...if you are a Folio refugee, suggest you look into M1. For simplicity I think they are very good/possibly the best right now.
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I have accounts with multiple brokers...if you are a Folio refugee, suggest you look into M1. For simplicity I think they are very good/possibly the best right now.

KBGlenn,

One thing I really liked about Folio was the ability to keep different 'folios' of stocks segregated from each other so as to track the performance of distinct strategies.

Does M1 allow for this?

Todd
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I have accounts with multiple brokers...if you are a Folio refugee, suggest you look into M1. For simplicity I think they are very good/possibly the best right now.

One thing I really liked about Folio was the ability to keep different 'folios' of stocks segregated from each other so as to track the performance of distinct strategies.

Does M1 allow for this?


Here is my impression from opening an account at M1 recently. The target customer is someone who types a random sequence of 3 or 4 letters, and wants to know everything about a company that has that symbol. Whereas people like us already know what stocks (symbols) we want and we just want to trade that stock.

The way M1 works may be intuitive to somebody who has experience with Folio or Motif. It was all new to me and confusing to understand.

If you want to strictly segregate your "folios" they suggest that you open a new account for each one. I think that's the only way to have a solid wall between them. FWIW, I have 2 portfolio, named unimaginatively "top-level joint" and "my IRA".

Other than that, do this: Create a custom "slice" (or is it "pie"? I find their terminology confusing.) that has your symbols. Tricky to do, it's under research/my-pies. (Ah, so it's "pie".) Then you "edit" this and set your desired weights. In my case, I did "select all" and "Equalize" for equal weight. Now this is a free-floating "un-used" pie; really a definition.
Repeat this for any other screens/portfolios you want.

AFAICT, whether something is called a pie or a slice depends on how you are viewing it. They are really the same thing. In fact, a pie and a slice and a stock/ETF are all the same thing, it's just called different depending on how you look at it.

Hmmm, I just noticed something. When I go down from the top-level portfolio, every component all the way down is called a slice. 1st slice is the screen itself, which has several slices that are the stocks I named in the pie. So it looks like "pie" is your screen definition and "slice" is the holdings. And it's slices all the way down.


Now you have a number of portfolio definitions, but have not invested in any of them.

Now go to your top-level portfolio. They "helpfully" helped you create this when you opened your account, but you don't want anything that got added then, so delete all the slices/pies in it.

Whew!

Now create your investable portfolios/screens by adding your "pies" as "slices" to this top-level portfolio. You will have to assign a desired weight to each of them, from 1% to 100%, totally up to 100%. Now here's the tricky part--and I may have this a little bit wrong. They assume that you will want to rebalance this top-level portfolio. Do *NOT* let this happen!!! If you do, it will merrily go down the slice/pie tree and rebalance _everything_ under it.

Okay, now from your top-level portfolio, select the slice (your screen/portfolio/folio/etc.) and click into it. To initiate this portfolio, click Rebalance or Buy/Sell.

Dividends go into cash balance of the top-level portfolio, not the slice/pie/stock which paid out the dividend. If you have auto-invest turned on (the default), they will buy everywhere in your portfolio/slices/pies so as to push the overall portfolio toward your target percentages. We MI folks with multiple screens/portfolios probably don't want it to do that, as that will cause money to bleed between portfolios.

You would want to go into each slice and do a buy in the amount of whatever dividends that came from stocks in that slice. If you want to do DIY DRIP, select the stock slice in the screen slice and click Buy and set the dollar amount to the amount of the dividend. They do not do the DRIP for you; you have to do it yourself.

Or you can go into the slice that is your portfolio/screen/pie and do a Buy. This will invest the cash into the various securities in that slice so as to drive it toward your desired weighting.

Y'know what? This just seems like a total PITA. The only thing it really has going for it is the one-click rebalancing and fractional shares. I'll try it for a year and then see if IB has made theirs easier.

My first re-evaluate/rebalance comes up next week, with one of Jim's monthly screens. In an IRA, because I don't want to have 12 * 25/2 Schedule D entries.
It is not clear to me what to do. Do I change the symbols in the pie, and that gets carried over to the slice that the pie created? Or was the pie a one-time thing and I have to change the symbols in the slice?
I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes.
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No you can't cut and paste a list of symbols, but Fidelity does allow buying a basket and have you specify how much $ to use to spread out over them. I don't think they have "exchange" of one group for another or I missed it. But "free" is free.
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Personally, I think if you have a portfolio of any decent size you should go the commissions route for better executions.

That was also the opinion of the IB guy I talked to, and it is my intuition.
On the other side, it is hard to quantify "better execution" and whether you make up for the commissions.
It seems like you should; commissions are generally perhaps 0.1% of a trade, and better fills could easily make up for that.
But how to know?

He did mention that they have a transaction analysis tool https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=17621


Mark
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It does. You make a "donut wedge" within a "larger donut."

See M1 to see what I mean. The one caveat is that your smaller donut wedge is still subject to your overall allocation to it. For example, let's say you have a large donut (portfolio) consisting of 4 donut wedges (sub-portfolios) and each is allocated 25%. If one outperforms and notionally grows to be 30% of the overall portfolio and you rebalanced the main portfolio you will reallocate the extra 5% to the other portfolios to rebalance the entirety to 25% each.

I don't recall what the minimum account/trade size is at M1 but it is fairly small. You may want to experiment with a small test account. Unfortunately M1 does not offer paper trading.
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On executions...they are definitely different. Now of course what I'm going to say could (will) vary by size traded but generally if I execute MOO or MOC trades I get the stated official close or open. That is not the case when I've traded with IB Lite. Interestingly, with IB Lite it appears you get rewarded or penalized depending on whether or not you are supplying the right side of liquidity that day.

A couple of other key items people should research if thinking of using Pro.

Quote data costs

Monthly account fees and account size

Monthly account fees when factoring in commissions (they are rebated against the monthly fees)

Reduced margin costs (if you use margin)

If you trade large amounts, then you should really educate yourself on the various trade algo options (IB offers way more than mkt and lmt orders)

The nature of their combined stock/futures account structure

Their stock lending program opt in/opt out
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Forgot an important one...flat rate vs. tiered rate commission scales
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Mark, by default the basket order generates market orders, the same way Folio did.

If you're not working with a lot of trades, a workaround is available - tedious, but possible:
* change the market orders to limit orders, if you generate them off hours.

As I said, the execution is consistently very good. They shop trades across several exchanges and take the best price they can get - instantaneously, no monitoring. It's usually a few $ here or there, reported as "price improvement".

FC
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If one outperforms and notionally grows to be 30% of the overall portfolio and you rebalanced the main portfolio you will reallocate the extra 5% to the other portfolios to rebalance the entirety to 25% each.

Yup. That's why I said that an MI person probably doesn't want to rebalance at the top-level portfolio.


I don't recall what the minimum account/trade size is at M1 but it is fairly small.

$100.


You may want to experiment with a small test account. Unfortunately M1 does not offer paper trading.

But it does offer the next-best thing--at least for setting up your portfolio(s). Nothing trades on weekends or evenings, so you can fiddle with defining and setting up your pies & slices & portfolios then. And then delete or disable everything before the Monday open.
I had to do this a couple of times before I came to my understanding of how this pie/slice/portfolio thing worked.

Or....Minimum initial deposit is $100. And minimum stock purchase is $1. You can deposit $100 and piddle around setting up things and see how it goes. And if you don't like the way things work, just sell everything and take back the cash. The most it will cost you is $100, and most likely you'll get all or almost all of your money back.
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I thought I saw a blurb to the effect that they may later add basket type trading. We can hope.

IB TWS has a basket trader that I have been using for many years. I run my Amibroker explorations in the evening and prepare a csv file with all the pertinent info for anywhere from a few to 100 stock symbols (sometimes more which then requires several baskets). In the morning I load the basket and fire off all or some of the limit orders. If a trade or trades execute then the trade log shows me the target price for a sell (which was automated with the AB exploration and basket order).

There's a learning curve to using the basket trader but it works well.
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Monthly account fees and account size

Relating to IB, I believe if your account is >$100k, you don't have to pay the monthly fee. In recent years, I trade very little - only a handful of trades per year. I never get charged a monthly account fee apart from data fees which are always less than $10 - maybe $6 or $7. Of course it depends on the data you subscribe to and whether you opt for bundled or unbundled fees.

StevnFool
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This is essentially OT, but I thought someone might be able to help me understand...

As a new user of IB (having coming from Folio), I find some of the rules they impose to be difficult to follow. Recently, I received a warning note that IB "liquidated" certain positions in my account because there was insufficient equity in my account to satisfy the margin requirements of my portfolio.

In this case, "liquidation" apparently means they *bought* 0.0001 (quantity was "1.0E-4") shares of 3 different stocks that I had sold in the past several days or so. They listed all the actions they took as buys.

Could someone help me interpret what this means? :-// I'm willing to give them a call but thought I'd ask here first. :-)

Thank you for any help!!!

Todd
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Ismr409:
Could someone help me interpret what this means?

It sounds like a bug to me.

Robbie Geary
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I too had a similar strange "margin sale" from IB. Four different, everyday stocks, the sold 0.01 to 0.06 shares and listed it as margin requirement. Now mind you I don't have ANY margin set up on these accounts AND it generated like $0.09!!!! 9 cents!! I double checked they didn't charge me any commission. I got to wondering if they only hold factional position to the second decimal, but nope I have 3 decimals points shares.

I called up IB and was on hold for over an hour before I gave up and had to go somewhere. I'm starting to think IB isn't the right platform for me. I liked the basket, all in one, trades of Folio, but think I am going to have to go with a simpler buy/sell broker like Fidelity or Schwab now that they are all $0 commissions.

Peace,
Opihi
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I called up IB and was on hold for over an hour before I gave up and had to go somewhere. I'm starting to think IB isn't the right platform for me. I liked the basket, all in one, trades of Folio, but think I am going to have to go with a simpler buy/sell broker like Fidelity or Schwab now that they are all $0 commissions.


I know a lot of people like IB but I tried using them a number of years ago and it was maddening. Even simple stuff like an address change required me mailing them a copy of my drivers license. I gave up pretty quickly (within a year).

At that time I went with ThinkOrSwim because they allowed futures trading (I do it very infrequently but want the ability to do so) and supported the Apple Mac OS with a stand alone application. Since then they have been acquired by TD Ameritrade but things still work fairly well and the stand alone app is supported, although I mostly use the web site.

I also have accounts at Fidelity (current job uses it) and a small account at Schwab (got a bonus). I think Fidelity/Schwab may have better phone support although I rarely need that but maybe because I've gotten used to it, I prefer TD's web site, and I still have futures/options trading ability.
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I also have accounts at Fidelity (current job uses it) and a small account at Schwab (got a bonus). I think Fidelity/Schwab may have better phone support although I rarely need that but maybe because I've gotten used to it, I prefer TD's web site, and I still have futures/options trading ability.

richinaz,

Thank you for your feedback.

A couple of questions for you:

If you happen to know, in a cash account do TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, and/or Schwab allow sells and buys of stocks on the same day without having to wait 2 days for the sells to settle?

Do you have any particular preference between Fidelity and Schwab?

With Schwab's buyout of TD Ameritrade, my assumption would be that TD's platform would eventually be superseded by Schwab's, although that might be a faulty assumption.... ?

All best,

Todd
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I know a lot of people like IB but I tried using them a number of years ago and it was maddening.

Guess I'm in the maddening phase. Convinced myself it was probably better to pay commissions with Pro and get better executions.
Thought I could use one of their fancy order types (algos) which is what they recommended for best fills.
Then discovered, after a lot of work, that you can't use an algo with a GAT (good after time) attribute.
So I have not figured out how to set a bunch of orders to start executing automatically at a certain time.


Mark
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We may need to define platform. Thinkorswim had a stand alone application, or if you prefer, program. That was absorbed by td Ameritrade. It is hugely popular among traders, especially option traders. My conversation with a td employee, higher manager, is that it is considered a significant asset and it would be very unlikely for Schwab to abandon it.

Now if you are only talking about the web site, then that is a different story.

I am not sure about buying and selling the same day but since I have options, margin and future permissions I'd imagine I could.

Years ago Scottrade also had a standalone app but I moved to an Apple computer and their program was Windows only.

I may have confused things with the "app" term since now it seems to refer to things running on phones.

To confuse things further on an iphone you can download and use the Ameritrade app or the thinkorswim app. They both access my account in very different formats. And of course there is a separate Charles Schwab app.

I haven't been with Schwab long enough to compare it with fidelity but seems decent at first glance.
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If you happen to know, in a cash account do TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, and/or Schwab allow sells and buys of stocks on the same day without having to wait 2 days for the sells to settle?

Fidelity allows it. I believe it's standard practice with all brokerages.

Elan
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You did not ask about this, but I also transferred my HSA account to Fidelity as that allowed many more investment options compared to Optum where the HSA was. Not sure what kind of health insurance you have, but if you have a high-deductible plan as many do now, you are free to move your HSA wherever you want. My HSA is currently invested in GOOGL and ZM.
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If you happen to know, in a cash account do TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, and/or Schwab allow sells and buys of stocks on the same day without having to wait 2 days for the sells to settle?

TD Ameritrade does. I do it routinely when I rebalance, buying a few minutes after I've sold.

Eric Hines
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A number of different brokers have been mentioned. Does anyone know if any of them
have a way to automatically (and easily) rebalance a portfolio to a given set of weights like Folio had?
I'm willing to download prices from Yahoo to a spread sheet and rebalance by hand ,one stock at a time, if necessary, but it can be time consuming.

rrjjgg
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Does anyone know if any of them have a way to automatically (and easily) rebalance a portfolio to a given set of weights ...?

M1finance. Signup referral link to get $30: https://m1.finance/nmMqdALa1DwL

They currently pay a bonus for a new account, depending on the size of your transfer. https://www.m1finance.com/earn-up-to-4375/
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If you happen to know, in a cash account do TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, and/or Schwab allow sells and buys of stocks on the same day without having to wait 2 days for the sells to settle?

Fidelity allows it, with the warning, that if you don't have enough settled cash to cover the buys, then you must not sell the buys until the the 'sells' settle to avoid a free ride violation.

BLancaster
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If you happen to know, in a cash account do TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, and/or Schwab allow sells and buys of stocks on the same day without having to wait 2 days for the sells to settle?

Every broker I have even had -- must be more than 20 over the years -- has let you buy immediately. Except one. Just2Trade would not let you do it.

But Just2Trade got sold or something to a Russian company (!!!), and I closed that account.
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Guess I'm in the maddening phase. Convinced myself it was probably better to pay commissions with Pro and get better executions.
Thought I could use one of their fancy order types (algos) which is what they recommended for best fills.
Then discovered, after a lot of work, that you can't use an algo with a GAT (good after time) attribute.
So I have not figured out how to set a bunch of orders to start executing automatically at a certain time.


Mark, have your screens started working again? I know you stopped posting because they had stopped working.
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Mark, have your screens started working again? I know you stopped posting because they had stopped working.

Of course they have, I stopped using them lol. Here's what's happened since March timeframe, this is the blend I was using, 25 positions from eight different screens.

                  Avg
CAGR: 167.0
TR: 139.1
SAWR(20; 0.95): 87.8
GSD(20): 33.2
DIGSD(20; 0%): 29.1
LDD(20; 0%): 6.5
LDDD3: 0.3
MDD: -14.8
UI(20): 1.6
Sharpe(20): 3.4
Beta(20): 0.5
TI(20): 285.4
AT: 18.6


I didn't stop completely, I rotated about half of my port into these 10 stocks which I continue to hold:

       Entry  Now
BRK/B 175 235 34%
AAPL 60 137 128%
MSFT 140 242 73%
GOOG 1100 2098 91%
BABA 180 266 48%
NFLX 320 551 72%
AMZN 1800 3352 86%
FSLR 33 97 194%
SEDG 80 308 285%
NWL 12 26 117%

113%



The folio to IB transition has complicated things, but I am closer mentally to getting back in the game.
Just call me Bob.


Mark
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On another board I've read that IB is working on a Folio-like trading approach that should be out sometime this summer.

I've read through the beta release notes and see no related information. (https://www1.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=1656&...)

Has anyone checked out TWS Model Portfolios (https://www1.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=13967).

Its the closest TWS feature providing a screen management system I've come across.
You have to be an Advisor. I happen to have that role in order to manage several IRA and JTWROS accounts. Don't know what type of reporting they have around the models.

Mark, would appreciate hearing if this is part of your trading method?

Thanks,

Pete
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Mark, would appreciate hearing if this is part of your trading method?

It was not on my radar, but will check into it. In fact I just applied for Advisor account (Friends and Family) to try to deal more easily with the 6-7 accounts we have.

I did execute a bunch of trades last week using the "midpoint" algorithm and watched them go.
Most were high liquidity and executed quickly, and some of the lower liquidity ones took a half hour or so to fill.
This seems to be about like FolioFN was doing.

Now I've been working on trying to figure out basket trader, to import orders from an excel sheet (csv).
Making progress, the excel sheet rows look like this:

Action  Quantity  Symbol  SecType  Exchange    Currency  TimeInForce  OrderType  BasketTag  Account  GoodAfterTime                            UsePriceMgmtAlgo  OrderRef
BUY 2 DELL STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 09:35:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 3 IBM STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 09:45:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 4 BRK B STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 09:45:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 5 TOL STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 10:00:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 6 GE STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 11:00:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 1 XOM STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 03:45:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket
BUY 10 NWL STK SMART/AMEX USD DAY MIDPRICE Basket MyAcct 20210215 03:45:00 Eastern Standard Time TRUE Basket

These are just test orders, to see how they import and show up in TWS.
It's pretty simple, just import them into TWS and hit submit and there they go.
The GoodAfterTime attribute holds the orders until that time and releases them.
When they go in, they are MidPoint orders, designed to execute at the midpoint of the bid-ask.
They will follow the price around if it is changing, so there is the usual balance between a quick fill and a good fill, depending on what's available.
There might be better order types, but ones like AdaptiveAlgo don't work with GoodAfterTime.

Anyway, using something like this, you'd have to generate your buy/sell orders in a spreadsheet, which is some work; this would replace what Folio did with "update and exchange" or the like.
Nicely, though, you could submit orders ahead of time to execute at any hour, or even days in advance.
The whole point of doing this is to avoid having to be in front of the computer to trade.

Still a work in progress, lots of trial and error and some things that should work according to documentation don't, and it's hard to figure out why.


Mark
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KBGlenn or Ray or others who might use M1 Finance,

I've just started an account and had a quick question.

When graphing portfolio or "pie" performance, does M1 allow you to see Time-Weighted Return (i.e., not including deposits / withdrawals)? Also, can the performance graphs compare against an index and/or a different pie?

Thank you!
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When graphing portfolio or "pie" performance, does M1 allow you to see Time-Weighted Return (i.e., not including deposits / withdrawals)? Also, can the performance graphs compare against an index and/or a different pie?


I doubt it. M1 Finance seems to cater to tiny beginning investors who add a few bucks at each paycheck, and who don't know a whole lot about investing.

In fact, I'm not sure of any broker where you can see "return not including deposits / withdrawals".

If you want to do that -- and this is what I have done with my M1 account -- is create a portfolio spreadsheet in google sheets. Symbol, share count, buy price, current price. Compute gain, for each holding and for entire portfolio.
It automatically gets the stock prices. Google sheets can do that automatically, otherwise I'd use Excel. MS Excel used to be able to do that, but MS dropped that long time ago.

To compare against an index (or maybe another pie == another worksheet) just do that for a dummy entry of SPY or whatever, then you can eyeball relative performance.

Yahoo used to have a good & useful portfolio tool, but they "improved" it a couple of years ago and made it useless.

Although....I don't care about seeing any kind of graph from a broker. We have many accounts spread across several brokers, so any overall total thing I want to see is in the google sheet.

--------------------

At this stage, really the only service I want from a broker is good execution. Every time I found a broker that had a feature I liked, that broker either eventually "improved" their site and did away with the feature or the broker got bought out by another broker and they dropped the feature. Anything you want to see, you've just about got to do it yourself.
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At this stage, really the only service I want from a broker is good execution. Every time I found a broker that had a feature I liked, that broker either eventually "improved" their site and did away with the feature or the broker got bought out by another broker and they dropped the feature. Anything you want to see, you've just about got to do it yourself.

And that is the truth. I find it frustrating that market information has gotten harder and/or expensive while the internet quality and reliability has improved.

Is there a good reason are the providers(investment bankers) intentionally making it harder?

GD_
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I don't think they are intentionally making it harder. Except for Yahoo, who are just braindead and clearly hiring incompetent cousins as a favor to family.

I think that we MI'ers invest quite differently than 99% of smallish private investors. I think they primarily cater to the Money Magazine class of investors.

Long time ago I was in an investing board (not TMF) and mentioned that I didn't know what companies I was invested in, just knew their symbols. Didn't know the P/E, the dividend yield, the EPS, the Analysts Consensus, etc. "How can you invest in a company if you haven't studied their annual report?"

Try going to someplace like SeekingAlpha or Boggleheads and proposing any MI-type screen and you'll see what I mean.

Heck at M1Finance (the original question in this sub-thread) when you want to buy a stock, and enter a stock symbol, it brings up a whole page of company statistics. "I don't want all that stuff, I just want to add it to my portfolio. Jeesh!"
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In fact, I'm not sure of any broker where you can see "return not including deposits / withdrawals".

Thank you for your thorough and helpful reply Ray.

FOLIO used to have both Time-Weighted Return and Internal Rate of Return graphs, and amazing optionality for comparing against indexes. Boohoo; miss you, FOLIO. ;-)
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IB does have TWR and MWR values on their Portfolio Analyst reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OXtjEi83v4

Unfortunately, I don't see how to get these values for specific Model Portfolios.
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