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I've noticed that if you search on line, it's very difficult to get pricing on a LTC facility or CCRC. It always, "Call us for prices". That's a red flag for me. If a salesman isn't willing to tell me the price up front on what he's selling, I'm unlikely to waste my time talking to him.

intercst
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Very few senior care facilities, even independent living, have on-line prices. And those that do are usually not current prices.
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I've toured about a dozen facilities (independent-to-assisted living, and rehab/nursing). None have online pricing. All were upfront about pricing during the tour. Given I'd want to see a place in person anyway, before making a decision, that was fine with me.

Several places asked about my dad's eligibility for veterans' benefits. My guess is places don't divulge prices online because it might scare some people off who in fact could afford it if they take advantage of benefits they might not know about, but that the facility can help with.

The other reason prices aren't online is because all have different pricing structures, and you'd have to ask a lot of questions to pin down exactly what it would cost. Some are pay-a-bunch-upfront, but most that I toured just charge monthly, and have level-of-care tiers, with a points-tallying table defining the tiers, which makes sense to me. One has a flat monthly rate for everyone, which is unusual and IMO not quite fair to the lower-maintenance residents. Also, what's included varies. Almost all places have an option to pay $x/month more for them to provide incontinence products, but one requires the family to provide the Depends. One had, in their online monthly newsletter, a reminder to families to check the residents' shower curtains because some were falling apart, and I thought, "What? We're paying thousands a month, and you can't even supply a damn shower curtain?" but in the place Dad's in now, yeah, the resident (i.e., family) is responsible for sheets, towels, shower curtains, etc. Also toiletries. It's not like a hotel, where soap & shampoo are provided.

Another wrinkle with the level-of-care tiers is that you can define how much assistance someone needs in the shower, but forget to ask how often showers are provided. I was appalled to find that my dad's place was showering him only 3x/week. I demanded daily, and they complied but bumped up his level-of-care (totally worth it). I have a friend whose mother is in a Medicaid facility and gets showered only once per week.

So yeah, it's complicated. Online info is just marketing. The nitty gritty is not attractive.
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YewGuise posts,

The other reason prices aren't online is because all have different pricing structures, and you'd have to ask a lot of questions to pin down exactly what it would cost. Some are pay-a-bunch-upfront, but most that I toured just charge monthly, and have level-of-care tiers, with a points-tallying table defining the tiers, which makes sense to me. One has a flat monthly rate for everyone, which is unusual and IMO not quite fair to the lower-maintenance residents. Also, what's included varies. Almost all places have an option to pay $x/month more for them to provide incontinence products, but one requires the family to provide the Depends. One had, in their online monthly newsletter, a reminder to families to check the residents' shower curtains because some were falling apart, and I thought, "What? We're paying thousands a month, and you can't even supply a damn shower curtain?" but in the place Dad's in now, yeah, the resident (i.e., family) is responsible for sheets, towels, shower curtains, etc. Also toiletries. It's not like a hotel, where soap & shampoo are provided.

Another wrinkle with the level-of-care tiers is that you can define how much assistance someone needs in the shower, but forget to ask how often showers are provided. I was appalled to find that my dad's place was showering him only 3x/week. I demanded daily, and they complied but bumped up his level-of-care (totally worth it). I have a friend whose mother is in a Medicaid facility and gets showered only once per week.

</snip>


Thanks for posting that, but Yikes!

Seems like the Federal Gov't needs to clean this up and offer some clarity on pricing like they did with Medicare Supplement Plans years ago (e.g., Plan A through N) Just about every LTC facility accepts Medicaid, so it's doable.

intercst
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...Seems like the Federal Gov't needs to clean this up and offer some clarity on pricing like they did with Medicare Supplement Plans years ago (e.g., Plan A through N) Just about every LTC facility accepts Medicaid, so it's doable...

Oh, I'm a big fan of clarity. But in eldercare, there's also a lot of experimentation* and innovation, and I think that's good overall even though it's chaotic at the moment.

Per Atul Gawande's "Being Mortal," even though people have gotten old ever since people even existed, it's a new situation now for many reasons, the primary one being so many more people are old, and need help, in proportion to the number of younger people available to provide said help. So the hunt is on for efficiency, which is rather the opposite of hands-on individual attention.

And the underlying assumption of Medicare and Medicaid is that family will provide LTC (as has been the case historically), with Medicare/Medicaid stepping in only when the need crosses the line into medical care: specifically, skilled nursing, such as is required with IV and feeding tube maintenance. Help with ADL's is not medical, much less help with IADL's.

* to find out, from the provider's perspective, how much care people are willing/able to pay for. For example, Fox Hill in Bethesda, MD, opened as a luxury white-glove retirement community, but almost went bankrupt overestimating the number of people willing and able to pay for it.
* also, to find out how best to identify dementia: it's more than just Alzheimers.
* also, to find out how best to care for people with dementia. It's a moving target as research progresses.
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All the units in our CCRC are different....you can go all sizes, from a studio, to a three-bedroom-two bath apartment, a penthouse suite (which I've never seen) or a stand alone villa with double garages. Location and/or view on our large campus will also affect the price.
So how can they put prices on line?
Visiting the place and talking with residents as well as sales people is the only way to find out if it is good value.

I am so glad we bought when we did.(5 years ago) Not only are we young enough to participate in many classes and clubs and use the facilities, but the price was lower then...!
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malaoshi asks,

All the units in our CCRC are different....you can go all sizes, from a studio, to a three-bedroom-two bath apartment, a penthouse suite (which I've never seen) or a stand alone villa with double garages. Location and/or view on our large campus will also affect the price.

So how can they put prices on line?

</snip>


Apartments with a dozen different floor plans (plus good/bad views/locations) do it all the time.

www.Apartment.com

intercst
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I've noticed that if you search on line, it's very difficult to get pricing on a LTC facility or CCRC. It always, "Call us for prices". That's a red flag for me. If a salesman isn't willing to tell me the price up front on what he's selling, I'm unlikely to waste my time talking to him.

intercst


They have learned well from the automobile sales people.

CNC
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malaoshi asks,

All the units in our CCRC are different....you can go all sizes, from a studio, to a three-bedroom-two bath apartment, a penthouse suite (which I've never seen) or a stand alone villa with double garages. Location and/or view on our large campus will also affect the price.

So how can they put prices on line?


The place I linked used to publish prices, which were understandably expressed as a range, dependent on location, view, etc. Think of buying a moderate sized house. What they publish now seems to be the monthly rate - also subject to the same variables, even more so depending on the care and other options provided.

https://carlsbadbythesea.org/senior-apartments/

CNC
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Apartments with a dozen different floor plans (plus good/bad views/locations) do it all the time.

Apartments are quite a different thing than continuing care facilities.
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Rayvt: Apartments are quite a different thing than continuing care facilities.

Continuing care is defined by law in California. Four ranges of care: Independent living (Essentially no care), Assisted living (Some care needed - can be as little as reminding you to take your meds), Nursing care (for those needing medically trained care), and Memory Care (for dementia* or ALZ patients. (These usually have a separate facility.)

We have visited a number of CCRC's and all have apartments for independent living and typically for assisted living. Nursing care is virtually like a hospital. The memory care may permit living in the apartment one is used to, but in more extreme cases, the person is put in a separate facility, which may have separate apartments, but is often kept locked because the patients (Oops! residents) may tend to wander off and get lost.

There is a newer CCRC in Pleasanton, CA. We visited there, and I don't hesitate to call it plush. https://www.yelp.com/biz/stoneridge-creek-pleasanton We also visited a sister site in Carlsbad, http://www.lacostaglen.com/?utm_source=GoogleLBC&utm_med.... We filled out their forms, and met with some manager sort. He was polite, but suggested we might want to consider a one bedroom apartment instead of the two bedrooms we had indicated. I understood him to mean that our finance s wouldn't support a two bedroom (But he said it so subtly we weren't offended.) The Countess thought his concern was that she is relatively young, and might face a long life with me gone.**

Finding the Carlsbad-by-the-sea CCRC was a boost to us. Less expensive than the newer ones (albeit smaller), and located on the ocean in the center of Carlsbad (Which is a bit touristy, but we really like it.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OK, this is CCRC one. Home study is required to reach CCRC two.

CNC
*The Countess says if I become senile no one will notice I am a bit distracted in my normal state.

** She wondered if she would be considered a young chick by the older women living there who might fear she would steal their husbands. I assured her there was no cause for concern. Then she got mad and gave me the silent treatment. I don't know why.
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The memory care may permit living in the apartment one is used to, but in more extreme cases, the person is put in a separate facility, which may have separate apartments, but is often kept locked because the patients (Oops! residents) may tend to wander off and get lost.

"tend to wander off" is an understantement!
My mom ended up in an Alzheimer's unit. There was a keypad lock on the unit's exit door, they gave all of us non-residents the keycode, which was the last 4 digits of the unit's phone number.

There was one lady who was always dressed up and tried to convince visitors to let her out because her son was waiting for her in the outside lobby and she had forgotten the keycode. The staff warned us about her, said do not believe ANY of the residents. There was a guy who tried to peek at the code as you pushed the buttons, so you had to shield your hand. The nurses gave us laugh and said Don't worry, he can't remember it anyway.


suggested we might want to consider a one bedroom apartment instead of the two bedrooms we had indicated.

Can you tell us what the prices were?

I have to admit that the prominent "Help Wanted, apply here" box right up top on the home page would concern me a bit.

She wondered if she would be considered a young chick by the older women living there who might fear she would steal their husbands.

The thing she should be concerned about is if they sidle up to you and ask, "Is your wife going to die soon?"
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