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On an earlier post, Ace was nice enough to supply a couple of links to some ports made up of Gorillas and Possible Gorillas.

I have heard endless hype about B2B companies, and would like to hear the names of some prospective B2B Gorillas out there so I can check them out and research them.

B2B seems to be a broad category, so I am not sure who qualifies to be in that industry.
I have heard of ARBA being a first-mover, does anyone have a Gorilla opinion on ARBA. I noticed it was not mentioned in either of the two ports I was given links to.

Thanks for any info you have,

Aridian
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Two companies that have been discussed on this board as being Gorillas in B2B are Siebel (Customer Relationship Management) and iTwo Technologies (Supply Chain Managment). Try doing a search of those companies on this board to check out past discussions. The i2 and Siebel boards also have quite a bit of discussion of their gorilla status as does the SI Gorilla board (especially for SEBL recently).
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for btob go to
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1380526000048000&sort=id

the new faq should be up soon. Im waiting for cmdx to change thier name today.
artboy
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Thanks for all the info!
I just thought I would let anyone on this board who reads this post know that I have been a dedicated lurker for awhile on many other boards, and your board is by far the most helpful.

I appreciate the responses from all those who have helped.

Aridian
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Try IQIQ (Vialink)

For a list of their customers, read the following:

http://www.vialink.com/customers/index.html

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JohnVibes1:

Two companies that have been discussed on this board as being Gorillas in B2B are Siebel (Customer Relationship
Management) and iTwo Technologies (Supply Chain Managment).


The Gorilla of ERP, SAP, is making a BIG push in both of these markets. With the ability to leverage business off their huge ERP install base don't be surprised if they make a big dent in the market share of both I2 and Seibel. I have heard whispers that SAP has set a target of 50% of their revenue in 2001 to be generated by non R3 (their ERP offering) software sales...I have seen their Mobile Sales application and while it doesn't have the ease of use of Siebel's product, it matches the functionality. The ease of use will come later, and for many current SAP customer's the seemless integration with their ERP package may help to overcome the Siebel ease of use advantage...

Thanks,

Darren

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Darren,

I have seen [SAP's} Mobile Sales application and while it doesn't have the ease of use of Siebel's product, it matches the functionality.

That's just one tiny slice of the offering. Have you looked at all the other Siebel modules? Does SAP have comparable ones? In your opinion, how do they compare?

Do you agree with me that it will be easier for the ERP players to subsume the supply-chain category than the front office category?

--Mike Buckley
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Mike,

That's just one tiny slice of the offering. Have you looked at all the other Siebel modules? Does SAP have comparable ones?
In your opinion, how do they compare?


I attended a 3 day course on the SAP Mobile Sales/Service application. Part of the course was spent discussing the entire CRM application of which Mobile Sales/Service is one piece. Sevice Interaction Centre, Internet Direct Sales, Business Partner Collaboration along with field sales and service make up the entire offering. SAP usually does not make a point of comparing itself to other applications, but in this case they insisted that their functionality was equal to Siebel's. Again, I believe that Siebel's app is much more user friendly than SAP's.



Do you agree with me that it will be easier for the ERP players to subsume the supply-chain category than the front office
category?


I agree with you in general it will be easier to overtake I2's position in the Supply Chain management arena. I have also played a little with SAP's answer in Supply Chain management and I would have to say the overall solution is much better than their CRM package. I just keep seeing the ERP install base that SAP has as a huge opportunity in both these spaces. As a implementation consultant, I see SAP up close and personal everyday. It is a very efficient sales machine that tends to get what they want. Already I have seen customers that intend to use SAP's CRM and Supply Chain management offering based entireley that it is fully intergrated into their new ERP solution. I believe that this one-stop shopping mentality will be hard for others to overcome once SAP gets rolling, especially when they begin to price the overall solution and not as individual applications...

Thanks,

Darren
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One thing I forgot to add...

Make no mistake about it, SAP IS targeting both of these areas. The see the saturation of the ERP market and have invested alot of money into the new applications.

Thanks,

Darren
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Darren,

Thanks for the quick response.

SAP usually does not make a point of comparing itself to other applications, but in this case they insisted that their functionality was equal to Siebel's.

In your first post, I understood you to say that you felt SAP's product was as fully functional as Siebel's. Now I understand you to say that SAP is who says their functionality is up to Siebel's. Could you please clarify (no pun intended :) that?

Have you personally seen all of Siebel's CRM suite to get an opinion about its functionality vs the competition? If SAP's product is now as robust as Siebel's product, this is the first time I've seen that opinion.

For the record, I've followed the space closely a few years from an outsider's view (not in the tech field) and I've owned Siebel stock two years. Everything I've ever seen about the ERP's advantage is the issue of one-stop shopping while the front office specialists' advantage has always been functionality.

--Mike Buckley
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Mike:

In your first post, I understood you to say that you felt SAP's product was as fully functional as Siebel's. Now I understand you to say that SAP is who says their functionality is up to Siebel's. Could you please clarify (no pun intended :) that?


I have not installed Siebel, but have been to a few demo's. I have also been involved in a functionality comparison exercise for 2 potential clients. I am not 100% sure that all the functionality that exists in Siebel exists in SAP's CRM. However, the basic functionality that was requested by the two potential clients that were must-haves were existant in both. Basically, they went through a functionality checklist that they would like to see in a CRM package and SAP provided all that Siebel did. Now, a Siebel spokesman would probably be able to say 'yeah, but we can do X which SAP cannot'. However, I have often found that alot of customers reply to this is 'So what, I don't need X' or 'X is a nice to have be we can get by without it' in exchange for the integration benefit.

Now, from an SAP point of view, I believe their claims about comparable functionality is similar. They made a point of saying things like 'We can create a mass mailing list in Mobile Sales based on customer hierarchy, or destination or product line in a similar manner to other products like Siebel.' However, the next point to this is the integration factor 'Unlike other packages, however, our customer hierarchy is set up in R3 and is passed into the CRM without any additional setup such as interfaces because our product is integrated with your existing R3 installation.'

You also wrote Have you personally seen all of Siebel's CRM suite to get an opinion about its functionality vs the competition? If SAP's product is now as robust as Siebel's product, this is the first time I've seen that opinion.

Again, I am not an Siebel expert, but the biggest advantage I can see right now is ease of use. Siebel's offering is MUCH easier to use than SAP's. There might be some better developed reporting capabilities in their application. There might be some industry specific functionality that is better. Overall the functionality is EASIER to use. However, the core functionality seems to be similar. SAP will definetely need to improve the product to overtake Siebel. But, I predict that existing and future R3 clients will buy the CRM and the Supply Chain Management software from SAP because of the integration. I believe that for many companies, Siebel's and I2's offerings will have to be head and shoulders above SAP before they select it because of the integration. I don't believe that either I2's or Siebel's offering is that.

If you want an example, take a look at Hewlett Packard's Business Store website. It uses SAP's internet sales offering and the configurable product and pricing engine (all sub components of their total CRM offering). The functionality there matches any site I have seen on the web (sub-components dependencies, characteristics etc...). Does it meet all the functionality of any other package, I am not sure but I does what it is supposed to do. Plus it is seemlessly integrated into their R3 installation. (I had nothing to do with this install - read into that what you want!!! :) )

I guess this is the interesting part of the Gorilla Game, when two (or more) Gorilla's face off!!!!

Thanks,

Darren


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Darren,

Thanks much for the detailed, objective reply.

It's interesting that I was unwilling to crown Siebel the CRM Gorilla until the IBM internal implementation deal was announced. My concern was that there was one last possibility that an ERP player, probably SAP or Oracle, could take over Siebel. Gorilla-gaming theory tells me that ORacle and SAP could be overwhelmingly successful chimps because of the way they can leverage their installed customer base, but I don't see them ever coming close enough to catch Siebel. They're simply too late into the game.

For the others reading our discussion who aren't as aware of the pros and cons as you are, I should add that some customers will choose not to be entirely tied into their ERP vendor for exactly opposite reasons other customers think being completely tied into them is a distinct advantage.

Great discussion! Thanks again for your input. It's not often I get to communicate with someone who has seen the applications in action, much less understand what they can do. It's certainly beyond me.

--Mike Buckley

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Mike, one last thing...

For the others reading our discussion who aren't as aware of the pros and cons as you are, I should add that some customers
will choose not to be entirely tied into their ERP vendor for exactly opposite reasons other customers think being completely
tied into them is a distinct advantage.


You are absolutelty correct about this assessment. I guess that is the true measure of how strong Intel's position is. I believe many OEM's would LOVE to be able to not be tied to Intel, but have no realistic option to do anything about it...

Thanks,

Darren
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