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I am obviously a rookie investor and just beginning to enjoy the wisdom offered by TMF and the many savvy investors who contribute to the strategies and analysis. I would greatly appreciate anyone advising me of which companies are considered "Gorillas", "Chimps", etc.

I realize that there is some debate as to who qualifies, but I am definitely interested in finding a listing of the companies most widely accepted and considered as Gorillas and Chimps.

If there is a link, or a list available, please send me an email including such data. Thank you for you time and help.

My email address is: raypresley@bigfoot.com

Thanks again for any help.
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The Gemstar/TV Guider merger is now a closed transaction. Press releases and articles about it are everywhere.

--Mike Buckley
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The Gemstar/TV Guider merger is now a closed transaction. Press releases and articles about it are everywhere.

--Mike Buckley


Thank goodness. It was nice to see our gorilla/godzilla candidate elevated $11 and change on the closure. Now, we need the JDS Uniphase and SDL transaction to close over the next 6 to 8 months...

A list of gorillas and chimps was requested or asked about in the original post of this thread and I jumped on to see what Mike had compiled. Check the FAQ, but here are a few we would all agree on:

Intel - microprocessor gorilla
Cisco - enterprise networking router gorilla
Microsoft - PC OS gorilla
Oracle - client/server database gorilla
Siebel - CRM gorilla
i2 - SCM gorilla
PeolpleSoft - human resources gorilla
Qualcomm - CDMA gorilla

There are plenty of others in the candidate mold that warrant discussion and research. A few, but certainly not limited to, would include Brocade, SanDisk, Cree, Network Appliance, Redback, Rambus among others.

Chimps? This list could get long if you factor in the cross marketing and participation of all the enterprise application vendors who have solutions outside of their dominant niche. If you add in the eBusiness solutions then the chimp list magnifies even more. We could list i2, Siebel, Oracle, SAP, PeopleSoft, Manugistics, Nortel, Remedy and many, many others who qualify as a chimp in the application software solutions for both the client/server computing architecture as well as the zero install clien computing architecture. It's an amazing space where you will find many competing against each other in a variety of segments. Then we could mention Apple as an OS chimp. I'll leave the exact chimp breakdown for all the various sectors to someone who may happen to have it all written down. Add in the reality that many gorillas also have technologies that participate in royalty games as well and we could really get a full, cross pollination list of interest.

We wouldn't want to forget a few of the strongest Kings out there that many of us like:

EMC
JDS Uniphase
Broadcom

I welcome all others to fill in all the blanks that I have skipped over, but hot coffee and muffins await in the next room at the moment....

BB



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blatantly copied from xerohype's wonderful faq:
(the whole faq is at this address: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1360002000695000 )

18. Is there a list of recognized Gorillas and Kings?

Here again SI comes to the rescue (thanks to UncleFrank):
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/subject.gsp?subjectid=25851
They have two public portfolios set up, one with established Gorillas and Kings, and another one of potential Gorillas (you need to be registered at SI to view these).
SI Gorilla and King Index:
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/portfolio/detail.gsp?pid=4789377
SI G&K Watch and Wait port:
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/portfolio/detail.gsp?pid=4969354

neckimran posted 2 good lists of
Gorillas and Kings and potential GG/Kings:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1360002000455000
Stocks to Rule the World:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1360002000413000

Padavona posted an excellent list of Gorillas/Kings with valuations:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1360002000268000
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I see no one has reponded to my inquiry regarding the "categories" vs the companies in the GG. I just find it curious that all discussions of GG revolve around the companies rather than the "category" they are attempting to dominate.

Has this subject already been talked to death somewhere and thus expalins the lack of response?

I may be way off base here, and please feel free to say so, but my thinking tells me threads should also revolve around the industry or category in many instances and then include the contestants.

Any comments welcome. Please, I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here, only looking for a rational answer to an inquiry.

Thanks,

Robert
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Robert,

I assume that you have read the book entitled "The Gorilla Game". I thought that I did list the exact category of each gorilla in my previous post in terms of what they were the gorilla. Perhaps you want an exhaustive breakdown snapshot of the industry/segment/niche spelled out for you. The book does all of this for you and we do, at least I do, discuss it all the time - here as well as the SI gorilla & king board.

Perhaps if you give me a specific example of what you are looking for, I would be more 'in the know'.

BB
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Robert,

After having read the book, it occurred to me that tracking the various categories in which a potential Gorilla competes, is really where the work begins for us Gorilla hunters.

I don't think I can, by myself, be successful at this task. That's where I am hoping the value of this discussion board will come in.

It reminds me of the projects we worked on during my MBA tour. You could never, by yourself finish the project. But if you worked as a memeber of a team and broke the project up into smaller tasks, you succeded as a team.

What are all the categories in which JDSU, for example, competes? Who are the competitors in these categories? Is JDSU gaining or losing market share in these categories? Who are the customers in each of these categories? And what are the switching costs associated with each? Who are the suppliers in this marketplace? How established is the value-chain?

I can't do this on my own. Some of this information is available in annual and quarterly reports, but it's not clear to me where the rest can be obtained. That's why I need the discussion of this board.

Currently, I have created spreadsheets which tracks the quarterly revenue numbers, sequential growth factors and various ratios. But this, I feel, is woefully inadequate when I compare it to the breakdown by category the authors did on each of the companies in the book.

I realize I pose more questions than answers, but I am simply agreeing with you that category tracking is at the heart of the Gorilla Game discussion. And I am admitting that the task seems more than one person can complete.

I will continue to lurk for more guidance, but know that I am willing to share the task of information gathering and sharing with other board members.

Rambyte
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I am fairly certain that Moore writes in Inside the Tornado about how people start to refer to the category by referencing the company once the company achieves gorilla status. As a result, people on this board refer to SEBL when they think of the CRM space because SEBL is the gorilla of that space.
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I am fairly certain that Moore writes in Inside the Tornado about how people start to refer to the category by referencing the company once the company achieves gorilla status. As a result, people on this board refer to SEBL when they think of the CRM space because SEBL is the gorilla of that space.


Thank you for all the great responses. I'll lurk and learn. :)

Regards,

Robert
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Robert,

You might want to check out my earlier post #2628 at http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1360002000606000 to see a lsit of potential Gorilla "terrain".

You're very right that it makes sense to look for Gorillas by category but I received little feedback from the post other than a lot of recommendations.

Regards,

sditto
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sditto,

In cruising back to that post that you had divided into categories, I count around 26 to 28 companies you mention that wouldn't pass the following criteria just using a cursory glance and knowledge of what has been discussed on this board and the SI board and our understanding of the content presented in The Gorilla Game:

A potential GG company must meet these criteria:

1. Discontinuous innovation
2. Proprietary open architecture
3. High barriers to entry
4. High switching costs
5. Strong value chain formation
6. Tornado market exists or foreseeable

A full, detailed list for all those interested might be an interesting project. Time? Money? Probably best if you eliminate the ones that don't qualify from the criteria. There are companies missing from that list that meet more of the six above criteria than some of those 26 - 28 (rough guess) on the list that I feel shouldn't be on there.

I know it's a cop out, but I'm on vacation...

BB
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Bruce,

The point of my post was not to provide the definitive list of Gorillas but to identify the terrain where Gorillas might exist, determine if we had a Groilla/Royalty game, and then identify players by type.

In an attempt to avoid one of the pitfalls of the Rule Maker board where there are endless posts of "what about Willneverbearulemaker.com" I thought we could define the games and players for all to see going forward.

Additionally, the Gorilla attributes you described are not static. The Gorilla Game doesn't develop over night but changes do happen and it is very possible to look one time and not see anything but an interesitng innovation, the next time you see a value chain starting to pop up, and then if you squint real hard an architecture starts to emerge.

In my work with technology companies, I'm often struck by how they could dramatically strengthen their companies by trying to actively pursue the Gorilla Game attributes. There's probably not a company on the list that couldn't position itself (or a portion of itself) closer to Gorilla status if they read the book and actively pursued the attributes. I've talked to Geoff enough to know he's doing his best to make sure that happens although we both know actually pulling it off is rare indeed - even more so since the competition is getting wise to the game with his help in that department too.

Enjoy the vacation.
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http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1330599002268000&sort=postdate

Could this be a starting point?

Valuations were based before the april "crash".

Agustin
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