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I got a question, I doubt anyone else will answer. I see a lot of crap on here about what happens to a kid when they are handed a trophy for finishing dead last without even considering another scenario that takes place. The kid who is asked to give up the trophy, who could have easily won it, so another kid can win (and does it so they can be a team player). The kid who was the better pitcher and benched because the coach wanted his kid to pitch. The kid who is the better dancer who willingly gives up the center of attention so the dance instructor's daughter can have it. The parent who is naive to this bs, but after seeing it, decides their kid's worth to them isn't whether or not they brought home the trophy, whether they deserved it or not. I'll tell you what happens. A bunch of freaking bullies think they are smarter, faster, and know how the world really works. Maybe the latter, but sure as hell not the two former.

I remember I once shared that a track coach asked my daughter to lose a race so that an girl who was trying to get into Swarthmore would win, because scouts were in the crowd. And my daughter did it.

The reply and I will never forget this until the day I die was, "the coach was telling your daughter she was a loser"

Words hurt. Sticks and stones may not break your bones, but the vitriol being spewed by both parties is just putting the bullies in charge.

I have had it.
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Thanks for sharing something personal and deep.

Bullies and morons and corrupt people are in charge - because Americans are balkanized and tribal - I've warned about it for years and it's only starting. You people are becoming sects, little sub-groups who don't even see each other, who don't see relevance in one another and therefore your politicians divvy you up and in the process pit you against one another.

Question is - how many people of goodwill are there who can transcend such, acknowledge that our differences are equally REAL and LEGIT?

I"m A Trump supporter. I've been skeptical on all sorts of immigration for 25 years of watching politics. But I readily admit that JUST because JaneBond, or some Liberals want to be nice to Syrian Refugees and allow them all in - DOESN'T mean they support ISIS which is the accusation that me, and some on my side will hurl. BUT - - where's Liberals saying that when I don't want millions of people to waltz into America, crowd up our schools, hospitals and in some cases committing crime - - I'm not a racist? Can't I want to preserve SOME common culture - be it traditions or language - without being 'racist'?

JaneBond until people of goodwill on both sides, acknowledge the other as an equal and worthy American - your concerns will get worse.

There's an article from a journalist, talking about eating at "Frickers" - a bear and chicken wing place in po-dunk Trump country. The guy was shocked that the people weren't racist idiots - but people with real stories, goals, and smarts. I'll bet that those people - if they went to the Whole Foods crowd on the coast - would find people with creativity, drive, and equally important traits that make America go round.

But - there's hardly enough of that.

I laugh. We don't need foreign exchange students from France or India. We need foreign exchanches between Manhattan and Alabama, Silicon Valley and Youngstown Ohio for starters.

JediG
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Words hurt. Sticks and stones may not break your bones, but the vitriol being spewed by both parties is just putting the bullies in charge.

I have had it.
___________________

THe bullies have been in charge for a very long time

That someone's words are things you do not like, sorry to hear it

That you and your daughter did not go after that slimey coach and make sure Swathmore knew they were dealing with a fraud, that is on you and your daughter. There will always be creeps

What we should all do, is strive for a society where those in charge have as little power as is needed to keep us safe and to limit abuse at all levels.

Power corrupts. None more so than at the level of government and when power and a lack of accountability exist as with a coach who knows there will be no price or an entire government that is the same, things go from bad to worse.

I have no idea of what Trump will be, this crappola boooooo hoooooo he said a bad word is childish, nothing more. He used a tactic to get into office, just as the President before him use racism as a tactic.

It is a shame where we are. That one person is a meanie is again, silly. FIght it however you find appropriate. Whining is nothing but whining
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THe bullies have been in charge for a very long time

That someone's words are things you do not like, sorry to hear it


That I do not like? Are you saying just because I didn't like them makes it true?

That you and your daughter did not go after that slimey coach and make sure Swathmore knew they were dealing with a fraud, that is on you and your daughter. There will always be creeps


On me and my daughter? Get a life. My first reaction was to say to her, "Are you freaking crazy/" Her reaction was she didn't give a flyin' eff about going to Ivy League, so what did it matter. She felt like she helped a friend that it did matter. I don't even know her friend knew the coach asked her to do it. She didn't want me to confront the coach because it was her decision and to this day, actually sometimes to her detriment, she wants to know she made it on her own, not because mommy fought her battles for her. I respected her decision.
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I"m A Trump supporter. I've been skeptical on all sorts of immigration for 25 years of watching politics. But I readily admit that JUST because JaneBond, or some Liberals want to be nice to Syrian Refugees and allow them all in - DOESN'T mean they support ISIS which is the accusation that me, and some on my side will hurl. BUT - - where's Liberals saying that when I don't want millions of people to waltz into America, crowd up our schools, hospitals and in some cases committing crime - - I'm not a racist? Can't I want to preserve SOME common culture - be it traditions or language - without being 'racist'?

JaneBond until people of goodwill on both sides, acknowledge the other as an equal and worthy American - your concerns will get worse.

There's an article from a journalist, talking about eating at "Frickers" - a bear and chicken wing place in po-dunk Trump country. The guy was shocked that the people weren't racist idiots - but people with real stories, goals, and smarts. I'll bet that those people - if they went to the Whole Foods crowd on the coast - would find people with creativity, drive, and equally important traits that make America go round.

But - there's hardly enough of that.

I laugh. We don't need foreign exchange students from France or India. We need foreign exchanches between Manhattan and Alabama, Silicon Valley and Youngstown Ohio for starters.
____________________

I don't disagree with a lot of this. My biggest bitch with illegal immigration and sanctuary cities is that law abiding employers are put at a disadvantage because they follow the law. I have all sorts of LEGAL immigrants working for me of all stripes and colors for union wages. But when the freaking unions sell out their own members and are actually running their own non-union companies playing patty cake with come of the biggest GCs in the world and the government turns a blind eye to that while making me tow the line is infuriating.

It is unfair to both the illegals and legals.

I DO NOT HOWEVER THINK THOSE HURLING BASEBALL BATS ON EITHER SIDE GIVE A FLYING F*UCK.
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Some children need a lot more outside encouragement than others. My grandson has autism and needs a great deal of positive reinforcement to achieve anything. If you just let him sink or swim, he sinks. Just the effort to sit still and and pay attention is a huge one for him. Thank goodness his parents and teachers understand it.

This trophy-for-everyone business is way overblown. In most schools, small sports success involves way more trophies and kudos than large academic success. Those who are intellectually or artistically inclined need to get satisfaction from within, from rare adults, from each other. Maybe that's why they tend to become better adults (IMO).

With Trump, I'm afraid the Age of (civilized) Man is at an end and the Time of the Orc (er, blowhard-) has come.
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I got a question,

I'm not sure what your question was, Jane, but your post reminded me on the year I coached Pee-Wee League.

The crap I and my co-coach took because we rotated batting and fielding was insane. PEE-WEE League!!! You'd think that these 8 year olds were being scouted for the majors. One kid started a run toward third [he must have been left-handed, or something]. Instead of finding it amusing, another father literally went berserk. We told him to shut up and just enjoy watching kids learn the game, which is all it was.

And this was the liberal Upper West Side [although it was already being infested with investment bankers].

Schvitz
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I'm sorry. I missed the question.
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I'm not sure what your question was, Jane, but your post reminded me on the year I coached Pee-Wee League.

The crap I and my co-coach took because we rotated batting and fielding was insane. PEE-WEE League!!! You'd think that these 8 year olds were being scouted for the majors. One kid started a run toward third [he must have been left-handed, or something]. Instead of finding it amusing, another father literally went berserk. We told him to shut up and just enjoy watching kids learn the game, which is all it was.

And this was the liberal Upper West Side [although it was already being infested with investment bankers].

Schvitz
____________________________

Well I guess I never did pose the question with a question mark.

Let's see. I suppose it would be better put by me to ask, "If you are going to believe that the problem with kids today is that they get trophies for coming in last, then you need to ask yourself what about the kids who got trophies for coming in first, when they really didn't?"

Meaning it was stacked so they could or by the kind-heartedness of someone who thought they were being kind.

Oh, I know these parents are bat sh*t crazy. I tried to enjoy just watching the game, but these freakin' parents made it seem I was in the Roman coliseum. And I realize most coaches are pretty swell but come under tremendous pressure from these batsh*t crazy parents. But there are those coaches who are in it to rig it for their kid or someone else's. I was so naive.
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Meaning it was stacked so they could or by the kind-heartedness of someone who thought they were being kind.
______________


Sorry to be this blunt, but the idea everything is set up from the beginning is insane. That it happened, is like living life because someone, somewhere was once hit by lightening.

The premise is the height of absurdity.
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Sorry to be this blunt, but the idea everything is set up from the beginning is insane. That it happened, is like living life because someone, somewhere was once hit by lightening.

The premise is the height of absurdity.
______________________

Well, first of all, lowstudent (apt name it seems) I didn't say that.

Second you have made it quite clear what an idiot you think I am and do not have to keep repeating it. I got the message, slapping me around, doesn't make me think you're right.

Third, then Trump should really should STFU about it all being rigged, huh, and all that other crap about the lame stream media.

Fourth, Trump didn't get to where he was by pulling himself up by his bootstraps. He got to where he was by being a pr)ck. And so it seems PR(CKS win the day.

I don't look forward to the battle of the PR*CKS going forward. You may, I don't. It's your preogative, as it is mine to find it distasteful.
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Second you have made it quite clear what an idiot you think I am and do not have to keep repeating it.

Everyone who disagrees with lowstudent is an idiot, insane, scumbag liar.
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"Everyone who disagrees with lowstudent is an idiot, insane, scumbag liar." ...perhaps , with that sentiment and understanding, , one could understand the backlash hillary received...
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"Everyone who disagrees with lowstudent is an idiot, insane, scumbag liar." ...perhaps , with that sentiment and understanding, , one could understand the backlash hillary received...

Perhaps lowstudent shouldn't call everyone who disagrees with him- an idiot, insane, scumbag liar.
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Forgive me Bill, I thought you were furthering this new period of self reflection
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Forgive me Bill, I thought you were furthering this new period of self reflection

That would be an excellent project for lowstudent, who calls those who disagrees with him... a stupid, insane, scumbag liar.

As for myself, I assure you that the project of self-reflection is ongoing.
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Just seeing if you lost your sense of humor Bill.
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I think the problems are different. If you get rewarded for participating, well that gives you the impression that participation is something to be admired. No, striving to succeed is what should be admired.

Now for the coach that starts their own kid over better players, the coach that asks someone to throw the game for another kids advantage? Well I think that comes under the "Life is not fair" heading. Another lesson that's better learned young. (And one that a lot of kids today have never learned)
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If you get rewarded for participating, well that gives you the impression that participation is something to be admired.

Why not?

The U.S. military has done this for ages. The WWII Victory medal and the Vietnam Service medal come to mind. Both were awarded just for being there. I see no problem with that. Do you?

So, why not give kids recognition for participation?

Schvitz
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The U.S. military has done this for ages. The WWII Victory medal and the Vietnam Service medal come to mind. Both were awarded just for being there. I see no problem with that. Do you?


Right. It's totally the same thing. :rolleyes
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"Everyone who disagrees with lowstudent is an idiot, insane, scumbag liar." ...perhaps , with that sentiment and understanding, , one could understand the backlash hillary received...
________________


How correct that is

Much like Trump, I was created by the left here on PA
I came to understand how the left perceives everyone that dares disagree and I became a mirror

Much like a little child people like Bill deny who they have been and what they do. Then they scream look mommie at the bad boys, feigning innocence

I use the terms idiot, insane and liar selectively per the individual, though usually I claim folks are in one or the other . Rarely, in fact never have I called someone the other term. Though I have referred to some as satan's spawn, that is due primarily due to their single minded belief in their own superiority and that they are moral although lying and deceit are second nature.

Funny how nasty the left is, Hitler references were fairly constant. Claims of violence, fascism etc But others, hey they are a problem! Oh look at me, I do not play that game I just post that anyone is just like what others say but I do not use those terms --- and that is not supposed to be pointed to as pathetic?

Look at the streets today. That is the difference between liberals and decent people. Look that the Tea PArty protests the folks that until today are still referred to as Tea Baggers by those that are nice and reasonable

Yes those folks who clean up behind themselves are dangerous fascists but lo and behold the enlightened who beat people for wearing a hat they are reasonable

Oh look over there a swastika! Look at what hatred and look it is labeled RUMP more signs of right wing hatred

Seriously? I refer to you as a group as pathetic because you clearly are. All the news that is fit to print has to apologize because it was dishonest lying for months so the faithful move on to the more honest MOther Jones.

Get a grip folks. I am not the problem. My nasty posts are nothing but a reflection and mild compared to your visceral hatred, and know I do nothing buy laugh at how pathetic you are, and that regardless of wearing you Hillary underwear even if you show them in public I have no desire to deal you harm, though I hope by giving you a mirror I can help perhaps one of you somewhere to wisen up
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The U.S. military has done this for ages. The WWII Victory medal and the Vietnam Service medal come to mind. Both were awarded just for being there. I see no problem with that. Do you?


Right. It's totally the same thing. :rolleyes
__________________

Roll your eyes just a little more please

Because believe it or not, I am supposed to actually believe that the poster is not amazingly stupid in believing that anyone there from the US Military in WWII was NOT on the winning team!
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Much like Trump, I was created by the left here on PA

Lowstudent denies responsibility for being himself.
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The U.S. military has done this for ages. The WWII Victory medal and the Vietnam Service medal come to mind. Both were awarded just for being there. I see no problem with that. Do you?


Right. It's totally the same thing. :rolleyes
__________________

Roll your eyes just a little more please

Because believe it or not, I am supposed to actually believe that the poster is not amazingly stupid in believing that anyone there from the US Military in WWII was NOT on the winning team!

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Well then what are your feelings towards those from the US and its allies who served in Viet Nam? I know how the Far Left felt.
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I think the problems are different. If you get rewarded for participating, well that gives you the impression that participation is something to be admired. No, striving to succeed is what should be admired.

Now for the coach that starts their own kid over better players, the coach that asks someone to throw the game for another kids advantage? Well I think that comes under the "Life is not fair" heading. Another lesson that's better learned young. (And one that a lot of kids today have never learned)
___________________

You know, I had a long, personal answer to this that would show my underbelly and then somehow whacky things happened and it got lost in translation. Then I said to myself, it was probably all for the best.

Let's just say one can participate and strive to succeed and lose. They are not being rewarded for losing, but giving it the old college try, at least by those who think they are helpful. What do you think of the Special Olympics? A bunch of retards and disabled midgets that can't or don't strive to succeed?

Learning that life isn't fair. Nope it isn't, but it doesn't mean you go through life rewarding unfairness as a life's goal either.
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I once agreed to tie a xc foot race in high school. My friend from another high school was like my running twin. We always were finishing xc races within a second or two of each other, and you never knew which one was going to pull out the finish. One day, the two of us were way out front, and isolated on the hills in the woods, and around the two mile mark he says to me, "You know what, let's just tie this." I said, "Okay, sure".

It's quite exciting trying to tie a foot race in a convincing fashion. I'll never forget the way we both came up to the finish in full sprint, locked stride and stride, accelerating to full all out effort, yet remaining equally lined up, and my coach going, "It's.. it's.. it's a tie!!"

I would recommend staged tying. Make sure you tell your daughter. You want it staged, I'll tie it... nothing less.

swamp
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I remember I once shared that a track coach asked my daughter to lose a race so that an girl who was trying to get into Swarthmore would win, because scouts were in the crowd. And my daughter did it.

The reply and I will never forget this until the day I die was, "the coach was telling your daughter she was a loser"


Nope. She was not a loser, but she was an "unindicted co-conspirator".

The coach was knowingly committing fraud on the recruiter and Swarthmore. If the other girl got the scholarship, she did not earn it.
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Nope. She was not a loser, but she was an "unindicted co-conspirator".

The coach was knowingly committing fraud on the recruiter and Swarthmore. If the other girl got the scholarship, she did not earn it.
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And you would indict?

I love to hear how spotless other people's children (and themselves) are.

The black, the white, of it all.

Until it's relative to their own situation.

Yes, the coach was knowingly committing fraud, my daughter should have known better. I knew better, but yet the girl went to Swarthmore. Think of it as, we did it for the good of the district.

Or hang us. I will accept your sentence.
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Yes, the coach was knowingly committing fraud, my daughter should have known better. I knew better, but yet the girl went to Swarthmore. Think of it as, we did it for the good of the district.

Or hang us. I will accept your sentence.


Get even, Bond.

I'd wait until that Swarthmore girl runs for president, and about a week before the election, I'd leak this story to Comey.

swamp
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It was an unselfish decisions, but it was her own. Yeah I can understand the fraud side etc..

One of the biggest problems I've had with politics the last 100 years, are the white lies, the partisanship, the seamless ability of people to judge based only on personal preference, not on what's right or wrong.

I grew to dislike Obama as a President over time. He was far better at his job than I thought, because he was very skilled behind the scenes, and directing his staff. Most of us didn't see it, many just thought they Knew because they just didn't want him in there. He's stretched the belief system until it's almost broken, pushing the envelope to the point of bursting. His supporters either looked the other way, or defended it using whatever tricks they could. Many on the right did the same thing with Bush. Hillary lost because she's so obvious in what she does, and she's been around so long.

So your question.

" Think of it as, we did it for the good of the district.

Or hang us. I will accept your sentence."


Nobody will hang you for it. Thinking you did it for the good of anything has negative impacts as well. Thinking like that has made it far easier for people to accept many things that are inherently wrong. They have a cumulative affect, and change the sensibilities of people in the long run.

If you look back over just the last eight years, you can see where some things happen. Look at the way ACA was drawn up and passed. That was something that righteous folk should have said, "No the win isn't as important as being honest and upfront with everyone". But that thought never occurred to them. In the end, it became an Obama nightmare, and produced a POS bill that was drawn up by folks looking over their backs to see if they'd get caught.

I can see where your daughter's actions are somewhat harmless, and very unselfish. But there is a price to be paid for every action. In that case, probably not too much harm done. But where do people draw the line? That's the answer nobody can ever really deliver.
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I can see where your daughter's actions are somewhat harmless,
________________

How can they be 'harmless' when the end result was a MORE deserving person, who did not display a complete lack of character in being part of cheating was denied the opportunity that was rightly theirs?

Now I understand from both mom and particularly from the child why the actions might be taken, and seen as no big deal at the time, and I understand that we all make mistakes in the moment that upon reflection we see as wrong

Defending one's own decisions and damning the entire system when you missed on a matter of basic morality however, IMO remains an insane thing to defend in my opinion.
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So your question.

" Think of it as, we did it for the good of the district.

Or hang us. I will accept your sentence."

Nobody will hang you for it. Thinking you did it for the good of anything has negative impacts as well. Thinking like that has made it far easier for people to accept many things that are inherently wrong. They have a cumulative affect, and change the sensibilities of people in the long run.
____________________

That was a joke, HM. In fact, I was making fun of what we all accept as "the better good" when we support "for the good of anything".

Hence, the hysterical pretzel twisting of both the Left and Right right now for justifying the position they took.

The brow beating I took on here for not standing behind the Party because of the candidate that emerged because of the absolute stupidity of the game players in the Party (the fork tongued mind games bs) is hysterical.

As far as me trying to justify anything. Not really. Just reflecting on what's the difference of giving a trophy for losing, as opposed to giving a trophy to someone who won, but really didn't, not honestly, anyway.

My daughter also gave her favorite hockey stick away to some poor kid who didn't have one, but wanted one. I don't know what is wrong with that kid.
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"medal and the Vietnam Service medal come to mind. Both were awarded just for being there. I see no problem with that. Do you?"

Yeah because you are ignoring the fact that they don't hand out other medals like candy, such as the CMOH, the Navy Cross and others. Seems a bit disengenuous to me.

Cheers,

Vile
NEVER SAY DIE!!!
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