No. of Recommendations: 5
Thought SP and tele would get a kick out of this. I believe the doctor's union operates the same way.

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/unions-and-airlines

Greenspun is an MIT grad and early retiree. Independently wealthy, he took the $16,000 regional airline pilot job as a hobby.

intercst
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
The unions in lots of industries try the same thing.

Steel workers....


Electrical workers union

Plumbers


In NYC, all the unions figure they should have 125% of the profits on the work they do. Only having an even bigger mob type boss to decide who gets what share of the pie works in the end. Someone on 'the contract' decides who gets what and how badly the city/feds will be screwed when they bid the contract.


The Bacon-Davis Act required by the gov't on all construction projects is similar. It demands that taxpayers pay the HIGHEST LOCAL 'prevailing' UNION wage on projects funded by the taxpayer - like all those 'infrastructure' projects. Built at highest cost. ANd that could mean your rural project was based upon city wages 200 miles away.


Yep......

If you were an investor and bought into airlines 100 years ago when aviation was started , you would have done equally well taking 20% of your money and burning it each year for the last 100 years.

----

The teachers union deals aren't much different although the pay scale is likely only 3:1 or 5:1. By the time you add in 5% a year for 'seniority', and those kickers for 'advanced degrees' (usually useless especially for K-10 and likely nearly all of 'high school')......really, just how does a PhD in French or German or SPanish teach any better than a BA degree? Or geography? or algebra? But taxpayers get socked.

The only time I worked at places with 'unions' that would have affected me was two summer jobs.....and I didn't have to join the union for that.



t.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Unfortunately, all too common a problem.


High seniority employees tend to suck up disproportionate amounts of wages, benefits and desirable hours and conditions of work. That's true in lots of unions.

This tends to be a particular problem any time you have a democratic union. Dictatorial unions with little control by rank and file members allow union leaders to ignore the special interests of long seniority employees and negotiate a fair deal for everyone. But the more democratic the union, the more senior employees pig on on benefits at the expense of all other employees, customers and investors.

You see this when unions accept contracts that keep high wage rates for senior employees but cut wages and benefits sharply for newly hired employees.


Seattle Pioneer
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
"This tends to be a particular problem any time you have a democratic union. Dictatorial unions with little control by rank and file members allow union leaders to ignore the special interests of long seniority employees and negotiate a fair deal for everyone. But the more democratic the union, the more senior employees pig on on benefits at the expense of all other employees, customers and investors."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually, wouldn't a "democratic" union would tend to vote
greater benefits to the majority of the membership - such
that if there were many newer members the union would tend to
emphasize causes that would support the younger members - opposite
if the membership were composed of mainly veteran members.
A union controlled by a "personality" or a "special group"
(e.g. criminals/thugs) would make deals to funnel funds
where the "leadership" wants without regard to the members.

This tends to be the problem mature unions are faced with - the
leadership does not respond to the members or actively steals
from the membership in some circumstances.
Witness the Teamsters of Jimmy Hoffa amongst others.
If done with sufficient finesse, the membership elects the
same leaders even if they are actively harmed by the leadership.

When union membership can withdraw from one union to
join an alternate union organization, there tends to be a greater
tendency for union leadership to develop the capacity to
listen to membership.
Course, this is not an approach favored by most unions - but it has
happened - particularly in some of the service unions.
But union competition - as has been the case with many original
union developments can be discouraged with sufficient baseball
bats or machine guns in sufficient hands.

Pretty much holds true for any organization. The ability to listen
to members, stakeholders, customers tends to improve with
competition.
Lack of competition eventually leads to the "absolute power corrupts"
end seen repeatedly in human history.

Howie52
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
<< Actually, wouldn't a "democratic" union would tend to vote
greater benefits to the majority of the membership - such
that if there were many newer members the union would tend to
emphasize causes that would support the younger members - opposite
if the membership were composed of mainly veteran members. >>


Nice theory but you obviously have little or no practical experience with unions.

Long seniority employees are typically elected to union bargaining committees and such, and long seniority employees tend to have more power in setting union priorities.

People can always think of reasons why they should get more money or privileges.


<<When union membership can withdraw from one union to
join an alternate union organization, there tends to be a greater
tendency for union leadership to develop the capacity to
listen to membership.>>


Raiding the membership of one union by another is one of the things unions fear the most. To prevent that, the AFL-CIO adopted policies that prevent an AFL-CIO affiliated union from EVER raiding a bargaining unit organized by another AFL-CIO affiliated union, even if the employees decertified a previous union.


Nice theories, but it doesn't tend to work that way.


Of course, undemocratic unions can have other problems, and frequently do.



Seattle Pioneer
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Perhaps another example of "democratic" labor unions vs those less so:


<< Hostess Brands Inc., which makes Ding Dongs, Wonder Bread and other snacks, filed a motion Friday with U.S. Bankruptcy Court seeking permission to shutter its operations. The move comes after the company said striking workers across the country crippled its ability to maintain production.

The closing would mean the loss of about 18,500 jobs. The company said employees at its 33 factories were sent home and operations suspended Friday and its roughly 500 bakery outlet stores will stay open for several days to sell remaining products. >>


<< The company had reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The Teamsters had urged the bakery union this week to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking. >>



http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019693227_a...



I talked to an old and powerful Teamsters union president once who was AMAZED that the contract offer he had taken to his membership for a vote had been rejected. He said that was the first time that had ever happened to him.



Seattle Pioneer
Print the post Back To Top