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New study out of Britain. Seems most of these studies come out of Britain. Probably a lot of government money to be had by academia to study everything for the British Health Service.

Simple test. Can you climb up 4 full flights of stairs without stopping or suffering or the like? You might live longer.

They go into details as to how each additional quant of exercise adds to your increasing immortality. From all indications I will make the unity but unfortunately probably live through it to not be part of the founding leadership overlords.

Now the argument can be very persuasively made that had Winston Churchill exercised some, moderated his daily, systematic, and prodigious alcohol consumption, ate a balanced meal, slept more, stopped smoking cigars that he would have lived a materially longer number of years past the age of 90 when all the above did him in!

I ma having a thought of writing a book based upon a real world example of how to longetivity. I like sports too much, so I don't think I will be able to adhere to my own program, but there may be quite the market out there for those who want to give it a try. Admittedly, since Churchill preferred wine to cans of milk (as were the thing during WW 2) he chose the least detested of the two for his morning drink followed by his usual soda and ..., could become a bit pricey. But do not sacrifice the quality of your spirits if going on this diet. You can choose for yourself if wine or cans of milk are your least detestable morning spirit.

One thing though, there was little thought are actions regarding sex. So for most married guys this should not be a problem ;) . So you cannot substitute same to disturb the sedentary aspects of this diet.

Tinker
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<< New study out of Britain. Seems most of these studies come out of Britain. >>

This is one of the benefits of national health care.

Virtually everyone's health/sickness experience is centralized in one very large registry. Ours (the US) is fragmented, at best.

Britain has big data when it comes the their nation's health issues. And if there's anything to be gleaned from the likes of Amazon and Facebook, it's that big data can be very revealing.


<< I am having a thought of writing a book based upon a real world example of how to longevity. >>

"An example" is the exact opposite of big data. Anecdotes are meaningless. Entertaining maybe (like the consumption habits of Churchill), but essentially useless.


Alan
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Alan, obviously I was jesting. Or maybe not so obvious ;( - I do crack myself up then.

I think the point to take away is we get too into all the minutia of all the latest and greatest best health advice. There are some genetic freaks who can live practically forever on the worst and most hedonistic lifestyle.

There are others who cannot get into old age no matter how well they lived.

And then the rest of us, and we will not find immortality in panicking ourselves into having to live perfect lives.

Instead, all studies aside, the rule has never changed, for the most of us, just use moderation. The marginal gains from becoming extremely "healthy" to using moderation are probably so small as to be practically statistically meaningless in all practicality.

Most of these studies, as you read into them show a 4% or 9% lower risk of this or that, sometimes you get into much higher like 1/3 or such.

Sure, stop smoking, the average person will probably gain between 3 and 10 years depending on the study.

Stop drinking, 1 to 3 years, etc.

But these studies all have big flaws. As for example, in Britain again, when tracking very activity people for some reason those who played tennis primarily lived 5 years longer than any other category of exercise and no one knows why. Cyclists only gained another 2 years or so. Why? Probably due to big flaws in the study and database. As, in the end, is the case with almost all these big data studies as crap in crap out.

I like looking young, I like having the cardiovascular system of a 25 year old (as I was told by my cardiologist after looking inside me), I like being able to drink moderate alcohol, 1, 2, 3 or 4 drinks a day (occasionally I will even go to a party and perhaps have a few more, but a rarer event these days), and I have no use whatsoever for smoking.

But you know what else I also miss? Doing nothing! Will it kill me if I sat down and did not move for 48 hours except to go grab a beer, go to the bathroom, or pick up a meal? No. And yet we are now told that this will kill us!

I might have to try some of that some day, just as soon as I figure out how. I know, just follow a day in the life of my teenagers. It is their natural condition.

Tinker
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<< Alan, obviously I was jesting. >>

Oh man! I can be such an idiot!!


Alan
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300 years is my stretch goal.
I expect to have converted my soft tissues slowly over time via nanobots, allowing me to function in cold or hot extremes and the vacuum of space or deep underwater.


I read a lot of sci-fi.


Dreamer
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Could happen...except those nanobots experience entropy as well and overtime they might become like a really aggressive case of lupus or worse...but good ride while it lasts.

Yes, I read a lot of science fiction as well. In detail about the nanobot miracle. Then again, that was only unmanaged nanobots in a still more subsequent dystopian future where such nanobot equipped humans ended up...so always hope.

Another perspective on what is old, one of the characters only chose to get his nanobot - age stopping treatment at age 65, unlike the ages most others chose. May still have some good years left perhaps. 65 is of course the new 45 but soon 1024 will be the new 27. Moore’s law and all in medical nanobot technology.

Tinker
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If you avoid dieing from heart disease, a stroke, organ failure or cancer, then it's all about your ability to carry out activities of daily living (ADLs). Basically, how independent are you. Are you able to walk up stairs, able to dress and feed yourself...etc. If you can do that, then you'll live to the ripe old age of 100 until an accident causes you to break a hip, a perfectly fixable problem, but you get a hospital acquired infection/die of pneumonia because you're incapable of coughing well enough.

In my experience, I agree, it's moderation. The person who walks everyday their entire life but never really does anything to get their heart-rate elevated much about 120 is going to kick butt. They'll get pretty much all the cardiovascular benefits (bare the final few %s), without the danger of musculoskeletal damage, which adds up over time to affect ADLs.

A week ago I was in a cycle race and was involved in a crash at 30+mph. Some idiot didn't look and caused a pile up. Things could've gone far far worse so I'm thankful for that, but I've buggered my shoulder. 3 ligaments torn off completely. So I'm going to need pins/metal plates. Disappointingly, medical science hasn't come up with practical enough nanobots/stemcells to replace my ligaments. Thankfully, it's advanced enough to sort of fix me. But it will be more prone to failure over the natural human body, and cause problems later on in life. If it fails when I'm 90, they probably wouldn't fix it. Too dangerous. So it's cortisone injections and a decline in ADL ability. These things add up.

Time to stop doing stupid things I think.
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Time to stop doing stupid things I think.

--

I like to think I am pretty active and in good shape for mid-40s.
Used to like to play pickup basketball, but it can be a young man's game in many ways.

About 15 years ago my basketball playing days started going downhill. Bunch of glory days wannabes in late 20s early 30s playing pickup games and I get elbowed by a short ahole with napolean complex and cut my eye lid and require stitches. I have a big boy job and now show up to work with black eye during days I speak in front of groups of people...friggin embarrassing.

About 6 years later I am back into it (great way to do cardio and not be bored silly, at least for me) and I go up for the most basic uneventful rebound ever, just a straight up and down, and my knee buckles. Felt I heard a pop, and although I have never been seriously injured, I just "knew" in milliseconds that I blew out an "L" of some sort in knee. Images of long rehabs and trying to shower with a cast or something flash in my head. But it was just a bad sprain. Could walk forward and backward, but side to side...oooh...don't do that. So basketball was out. Racquetball was out. And it took a couple years before it felt normal again. Basketball just didn't seem worth it anymore.

About 2 years ago I kept throwing my kids (now much bigger/older) around in the pool and my shoulder/rotator cuff nerve gets pinched. Turns out I hunch too much with bad posture in front of the computer, I was doing too many pushups and not enough exercises pulling my shoulders back to create a better balance. A cortisone shot and about 2 years go by and I am just now really lifting weights again.

But this has all conspired to make me much "smarter" and safer in what I do. No more barbell work, limited dumbells only. More with machines or more stable movements I can better control and that don't expose shoulders or knees to unnecessary stressful angles. If I was smarter or less lazy, I would take up swimming. I don't run, as that just kills your knees and hips...I know that will offend hardcore runners, but it is my opinion. I take long walks with audiobooks when weather is nice. I find cardio over-rated...you burn more fat more quickly with weight-training or pullups or pushups or burpees.

I will probably still join an old-guy basketball league, just cause I miss it, but more as an occasional sub perhaps. Racquetball seems to be a dying sport...at least in my most recent gyms...too bad. i should take up cycling, but I probably would never do a race with others. Swimming...yeah...that's the ticket!

Dreamer
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<< If you avoid dying from heart disease, a stroke, organ failure or cancer.... >>

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? In other words, these are the things that take most people out.


<< .... until an accident causes you to break a hip, a perfectly fixable problem... >>

The 12 month mortality from a hip fracture approaches 50%.

What you're saying is....if you don't get sick or have an accident, you live a long time. But it is the nature of humans to get sick and have accidents.


<< Time to stop doing stupid things I think. >>

Many of our careers in medicine have flourished because of people trying to be "healthy". But who wants to live if they can't do the things that make life worthwhile?


Alan
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<< I find cardio over-rated...you burn more fat more quickly with weight-training or pullups or pushups or burpees. >>

(WARNING!! Here I go again):

You want to "burn fat"? Eat less. It hardly matters what kind of activity you partake in. Just keep up a modicum of physical activity.

(and, yes, if you're training for a televised bout in the UFC, the little things matter. Otherwise, not so much)


Alan
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Wrong.
Incorrect.
You know not of what you speak.

Dont reply to my posts please.
Have tried ignoring you but i still see your replies unfortunately.
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As for example, in Britain again, when tracking very activity people for some reason those who played tennis primarily lived 5 years longer than any other category of exercise and no one knows why.

A study, IIRC out of Britain a few months ago compared racket sports to more loner sports (i.e. tennis, racquetball, badminton ) to jogging, swimming and biking. The conclusion (?) was that the racket sports added a social element that combined with cardio led to more longevity.
True? Hard to say...but I shared it with all my racquetball friends.
My DW, who jogs and swims said maybe it is probably because the racket groups have to make reservations and plans and don't skip as many workouts due to commitments to friends.
Or maybe it is purely that socializing is important too.

Mike
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Alan,

I have to agree with Dreamer on this one.

Facts are facts, experience is experience, and bio-chemistry is not as simple as 1+1=2. If it were medicine would be as effective as being a mechanic is for a car. We all know it is not, and that biology is far more complicated.

I would not pipe in except that Dreamer is not just maybe correct, he is adamantly correct. But of course there are always degrees.

If you want to train for a triathlon, eventually you will lose weight, but don't be surprised if you find you gain weight for the first month or two or longer.

If you want to lose weight, either eat vegan, or eat primarily meat (primarily, not all). Good quality. You will not be as hungry and the body will feel full and feel nourished. Veganism will work as well, but yuck!

Individuals vary of course, but this has been my long-term experience from a lifetime of competing and not competing, etc. From being skinny and able to eat anything to getting a bit older. Is what it is.

Tinker
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Mike,

For most people cycling is quite social as well. You ride in groups. That is what bike racers stay in the pack as you can ride much faster and easier together. You meet at locations, stop at donut shops, etc.

Cycling is in fact more social in my experience than tennis. Tennis you meet strangers to compete, shake hands, don't talk much while playing and then go on your way. Cycling, except if your training alone, is social throughout the entire ride and before and after.

Cyclists also stay very consistent. Thus the "social" aspect opinion was formed by people who do not understand the sport.

It may be because tennis players have fewer accidents, or the less intense exercise puts less strain o n the body or something. But it is not due to being more social.

Tinker
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Now the argument can be very persuasively made that had Winston Churchill exercised some, moderated his daily, systematic, and prodigious alcohol consumption, ate a balanced meal, slept more, stopped smoking cigars that he would have lived a materially longer number of years past the age of 90 when all the above did him in!

He might have lived longer but he would not have been Winson Churchill.


How long will you live?

Until the day I die.

Denny Schlesinger
 

PS: I can climb 8 full flights of stairs.

PPS: Sex is healthy excercise for mind and body. My doctor recommended it for back pains.
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Have tried ignoring you but i still see your replies unfortunately.

Customize => Favorite/Ignored Fools => Penalty Box = On
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<< Sex is healthy exercise for mind and body. >>

Let's see....exercise, socialize, and sex.

Sounds like Studio 54 to me!

Maybe me and DreamerDad can agree on something yet!!


Alan
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I did a lot of walking in Curaçao. Every time I asked for directions they told to take the bus or offered me rides. One fellow pointed out that the bus was less than two florins! When they heard how far I had walked they could hardly believe it.

There is a serious obesity epidemic in Curaçao, specially in older people, or so it seemed to the casual eye. I had the yummiest baby back ribs at Tony Roma's! That's healthy. The sweets aren't.

Now back in Caracas with life limiting stress! The difference between a free country and Venezuela is mind blowing! There everyone has a car and shops are full. Here queues are endless for just about anything. You have to wait for hours for the BsS. 5.00 bus. They do because they can't afford the BsS. 100.00 (US$0.20) private bus.

Denny Schlesinger
 

PS: I just walked up nine flights of stairs. I was winded after six. Took a two minute rest and did the last three.
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But this has all conspired to make me much "smarter" and safer in what I do. No more barbell work, limited dumbells only. More with machines or more stable movements I can better control and that don't expose shoulders or knees to unnecessary stressful angles. If I was smarter or less lazy, I would take up swimming. I don't run, as that just kills your knees and hips...I know that will offend hardcore runners, but it is my opinion. I take long walks with audiobooks when weather is nice. I find cardio over-rated...you burn more fat more quickly with weight-training or pullups or pushups or burpees.<i/>

I’m slightly older than you, late 40’s and probably only started taking health a bit more serious a few years ago just as I hardly ever have issues. But started thinking about wanting to good quality of life as Long as I am alive.

Everyday exercise is walking the dog. I have a very active bread that requires long walks as often as possible. This forces me to get up early in the morning and now let the day waste away. During the week, up usually before 6, the weekend I can sleep to 7. This is a good time to listen to audiobooks or podcasts and clear my mind. First thing when I get home after work I’ll also take the dog for a walk. Though occasionally she will lead me somewhere where I can sit and have a beer, helps release my mind.

A few days a week is at the gym since there is one about 100 meters from my office. I go on days without meetings during or around lunch time when I can get at least 1 hour break. It’s mostly machines, pushups, planks, etc or the occasional group class.

But the best I can recommend is Yoga. A power class can make you feel like you struggled at the gym and you will break a good sweat but almost nothing feels so good afterwards. When I was between jobs, I could do this 3 times a week but now struggle to go once a week as I usually feel guilty if I was not to come home to walk my dog after work. I am going to have to find a way to get at least 2 classes a week starting in the new year.

Though tennis is exercise, it is more to do for enjoyment.
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How long will you live?

Uhhhh... until God calls me home.


🆁🅶🅱
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Who the heck knows Tinker? God knows.

I take care of what I have by exercising regularly with weights and cardio, eating healthy foods in moderation, keeping weight down, not smoking, or doing drugs, or drinking alcohol(been sober for 30 yrs). But I don’t ignore the fact that genes play a factor in longevity.

This is a fatuous question IMHO. It’s like asking an atheist how they know there is no God. One would get a lot of responses but still the solid answer is they don’t know, they think they know, but they don’t, none of us do, believers have faith in a power greater than themselves and that gives me hope for a better future.

Lucky Dog
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<< It’s like asking an atheist how they know there is no God. >>

You are mischaracterizing Atheists. They don't know that there is no God. The believe that no deity exists, or have no belief of its existence (more or less the same thing).

I'm one rung further down the ladder (so to speak). I'm an Apathetic. I don't really care if God exists.


Alan
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It’s like asking an atheist how they know there is no God. One would get a lot of responses but still the solid answer is they don’t know...

Making such general assumptions almost guarantees that your are wrong. This atheist knows there are lots of gods! 😇


...believers have faith in a power greater than themselves and that gives me hope for a better future.

A delusion but if it makes your day, go for it.


Coining the word atheist was most unfortunate. Gods do exist, it's the attributes people give them that are fantasies. In any case, god or gods are not a problem. The problem is the clergy, the priesthood, the monks, priests, rabbis, mullahs, pastors, tele-evangelists, the lust for money and power.


or drinking alcohol(been sober for 30 yrs).

How many alcoholic beverages were invented or perfected by various priesthoods?

Wine was invented 6,000 years before the birth of Christ, but it was monks who largely preserved viniculture in Europe. Religious orders such as the Benedictines and Jesuits became expert winemakers. They stopped only because their lands were confiscated in the 18th and 19th centuries by anti-Catholic governments such as the French Revolution's Constituent Assembly and Germany's Second Reich.

Although beer may have been invented by the ancient Babylonians, it was perfected by the medieval monasteries that gave us brewing as we know it today.

Equally impressive is the religious contribution to distilled spirits. Whiskey was invented by medieval Irish monks, who probably shared their knowledge with the Scots during their missions.


https://theweek.com/articles/738566/history-pious-drinking

A dangerous lot these merchants of gods!*

Denny Schlesinger
 


* Not to be taken too seriously, my family in Berin were distillers and wine merchants. ;)
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You are mischaracterizing Atheists. They don't know that there is no God.

I really like Bertrand Russell's Cosmic Teapot

Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.

Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.[1] He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot, too small to be seen by telescopes, orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Denny Schlesinger
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<< This atheist knows there are lots of gods! >>

Wait a sec! Is this another one of those times when I can't tell if someone is just joking....??


Alan
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Wait a sec! Is this another one of those times when I can't tell if someone is just joking....??

Perfectly serious, read further down:

"Coining the word atheist was most unfortunate. Gods do exist, it's the attributes people give them that are fantasies. In any case, god or gods are not a problem. The problem is the clergy, the priesthood, the monks, priests, rabbis, mullahs, pastors, tele-evangelists, the lust for money and power."


Language is about symbols. "God" is one such symbol. "Dream" is such a symbol. How is "god" different from "dream?" Dan Dennet talks about religion in the wild, when people are ignorant they invent explanations. Aristotle's law of motion is backwards because he was ignorant of friction. Primitive man invented gods to explain things that were not understood (the god of the gaps). Those are the gods I believe exist. Later religion was domesticated. It's these domesticated gods I don't believe in.


Dan Dennett:

Wild and Domesticated Religions: How the Machinery of Religion Evolved

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4V7PsX4qU

Denny Schlesinger
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<< It's these domesticated gods I don't believe in. >>

Amen (my best joke ever....although that's not saying much)


Alan
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How many alcoholic beverages were invented or perfected by various priesthoods?

the Trappist Monks certainly may have perfected beer. Not a religious guy myself but I think I could go on a retreat there
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For most people cycling is quite social as well. You ride in groups.

I was just repeating (paraphrasing) what the study said.

But I would say that pretty much everyone playing racket sports are in social groups.
Running, biking, swimming could be done in groups, but certainly in smaller percentages.
And we're talking about what the vast majority of what average people do, not the real serious or pros.
In my neighborhood I know two couple who are serious bikers.
One couple organizes a biking club, lead group rides, including biking trips in Europe for groups or 10-20.
Another the husband bikes with no one (except sometimes his son) because no one can keep up with him.
His son spent couple of years on some kind of professional biking team.

Mike
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