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Have a question on how to handle this one.

Our dryer had been on its last legs for a while & finally died last weekend. So off to Lowe's we went. Used the Lowe's Visa & got 0% for 6 (or 12?) months. http://tinyurl.com/358ogu

I'm thinking replacing the dryer should come out of "E-fund & home repair" budget category. It has $154 right now + another $77 goes into it tonight = $231, so that's not enough to pay for the whole thing.

Should I wipe that out to go toward the dryer purchase?

Should I let that tiny e-fund keep growing & just defer some of the snowball to the Lowe's card to take care of it over next few months?

Should I use this month's entire snowball to just pay for the whole thing?

Total amount owed is $780.

I *know* the first dozen replies will be a variation of "You don't need that much of a dryer, return it, get a $250 one instead, pay for it out of e-fund now, and cut up that Lowe's card". So I'll save you the trouble typing that :) For the sake of argument, assume that won't happen. We don't buy cheap appliances, tools, or furniture - we'd rather spend the money once to get something that is exactly what we want & will last a long time rather than continually replacing cheap stuff that wears out quickly. The dryer we replaced was a 5 y/o GE that that came with the house - same model sells for about $390 today. So I look at it like we get the dryer we want & it should last twice as long ending up costing the same.

I'm really looking for what is best/right way to account for it since I'm new to managing budget categories. Figured I'd get some advice before I start paying bills tomorrow morning.

What I think I should do is use all e-fund money leaving about $550 owed. Then direct $275 out of $466 snowball this pay period & next instead of sending all of that to 0% BT CC. Or does it even matter as long as it gets PIF before the 0% expires? Sending extra $ to one 0% CC vs another is a wash isn't it?
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I know you said you didn't want to hear it but....

If you take money out of your e-fund or snowball to put towards this dryer, you are effectively charging it to whatever your highest rate debt is right now. Figure up how long it will take you to pay off that debt, and then calculate the interest on the 500 you want to charge.

THAT's how much this purchase will cost you.

On the other hand, if you waited to buy the dryer until AFTER debt paydown, you'd never pay any interest on it. If the cost of a $250 dryer now plus the future cost of a nice $750 dryer is less than that interest, you shouldn't stretch to buy this now.

Of course, it could end up being more to buy two dryers than to charge (depending on your interest rates of course).

I guess my point is that you should run the numbers, no matter what you WANT, just to be sure you understand the costs involved and that's its worth it (because we all know some thing are worth it).

If it were ME, I'd direct money out of the snowball not the e-fund, but that's just me.
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Actually, how about returning the dryer and not buying a new one for a while, until you can afford it? People live perfectly well without owning their own washer and dryer. I do. And with a washer, it's even easier. You can hang up clothes to dry. You can take them to the laundromat to dry.

I would not wipe out your efund. What'll you do next month when something breaks and you could have pulled $178.92 out of your efund to pay for it, but it's not there? You'll charge it again. Better to nip this habit in the bud.

I think there are two ways to approach this. Either,

a) just look at it as another credit card debt, and refigure your snowball, adding it into the calculations (remembering the expiration date of the 0%, of course!)

OR

b) begin redirecting your home repair budget to it over the next months. If that won't pay it all off by the end of the 0%, then figure out how to cut back in other budget areas to accomodate it. (And perhaps think about setting aside a larger amount for home repairs every month).
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Like your "dryer debt" I'm carrying "bed debt" right now at 0% no payments for 6 or 7 more months, and making $100/month auto-scheduled payments.

Yes I could pay it off faster, but I have other debts and other needs that aren't at 0%. So, I figure I will ride the 0% while I focus on other things (including trying to increase our Efund). I'd argue for you to build up your Efund instead, since you wrote that it is "tiny".

It isn't like you went way off the wagon and racked up a new dryer at 18% interest or something wacky. Stuff happens, and you had a 0% option, so that is great.

~dswing
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Thanks for the replies so far.

I started to get defensive - along the lines of "what do you mean I can't afford it?" or "how do you know what I'll do next month if something breaks?"

But you know what? You're right.

Now that I think about this, buying that dryer on credit - even at 0% - was a poor choice. I could have spent $200 to have the old one repaired, bought a less expensive one that wasn't what I wanted, checked out used appliance shops, etc. We are however both very happy with it and I'm sure we'll get many years of good service from it.

But if I'm going to be serious about getting out of debt, I have to change some mindsets. I have to stop looking at X months @ 0% as the same as cash. I have to stop looking at it like I have $960/month "extra" because that money doesn't have to go to extra payments on debt. I need to look at it like I'm $305,000 short this month.

I'm going to take $81 out of the e-fund/home maintenance account (the amount that is the "home maintenance" portion of that acct). Then I will sell $700 of "stuff" this weekend. That will probably mean parting with a gun or something else I really like. But if I don't feel any pain from this choice, I will make it again next time. Simply extending the debt paydown timeline an extra month is painless. In fact, doing that just makes the next bad choice easier to make.

I got something I really wanted & there's nothing wrong with that. But because of how I got it, I will need to make a choice of what other thing I want that it is going to replace.

Maybe that way I'll make a better choice next time.

SeeFoolRun {is maybe finally understanding what stop digging really means}
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But because of how I got it, I will need to make a choice of what other thing I want that it is going to replace.



~ Couldn't have said it better myself.


You're gettin' it!


MadamHusker 1
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Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

SeeFoolRun {is maybe finally understanding what stop digging really means}

YES!

AJ
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>>I got something I really wanted & there's nothing wrong with that. But because of how I got it, I will need to make a choice of what other thing I want that it is going to replace.

Maybe that way I'll make a better choice next time.

SeeFoolRun {is maybe finally understanding what stop digging really means} <<

Wow. This is really inspirational. I appreciate your sharing the process of getting to this realization because it certainly helps me, and I'm sure many others. I'm in the process of trying to change my mindset about these choices too.

A friend of mine had a financial coach who told her there's no such thing as "I can't afford it." It made some sense (generally) when I thought about it - it's all a matter of priorities and what we're willing to sacrifice to get what what we want.
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>>If you take money out of your e-fund or snowball to put towards this dryer, you are effectively charging it to whatever your highest rate debt is right now. Figure up how long it will take you to pay off that debt, and then calculate the interest on the 500 you want to charge.

THAT's how much this purchase will cost you.<<

I never thought of this way, and I appreciate hearing it. I'm in debt paydown mode. We had a sofa/loveseat that was in poor shape, but honestly could've gotten another year, 2 max, out of it. But the furniture store was offering 0% for 15 months, no payment and no interest. We bought a new sofa and loveseat last month. We didn't spend a lot in terms of furniture ($1500 total), and when the 15 months comes along, we can pay that off with 2 months worth of snowball money, so not a big deal; we won't pay interest on it. So we thought until I read this. It's so easy to think of 0% as "not costing anything." But it would've cost a lot less if I'd waited the year or two to buy new and not felt I "needed" to buy it NOW. And how bad could the furniture have been if a friend of mine took it and was excited about it because it was better than hers? Lots to think about . . .
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That will probably mean parting with a gun or something else I really like

i vote for parting with the gun.

BklynBorn
nosy
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Sitting here at my computer, looking out the window of this ridiculously expensive apartment here on this beautiful San Francisco summer day, I see my next door neighbor hanging her laundry up on a clothesline to dry, just as she does year-round when it doesn't rain. I bet she likes her natural gas bill at the end of the month.

It's not clear to me why a person would direct any money to a debt that's not accruing any interest. I'd recommend putting a note on your calendar about when you have to repay this to avoid the rate bump up, and then meantime use the money you have to pay down your highest-rate debt.
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I *know* the first dozen replies will be a variation of "You don't need that much of a dryer, return it, get a $250 one instead, pay for it out of e-fund now, and cut up that Lowe's card". So I'll save you the trouble typing that :) For the sake of argument, assume that won't happen. We don't buy cheap appliances, tools, or furniture - we'd rather spend the money once to get something that is exactly what we want & will last a long time rather than continually replacing cheap stuff that wears out quickly. The dryer we replaced was a 5 y/o GE that that came with the house - same model sells for about $390 today. So I look at it like we get the dryer we want & it should last twice as long ending up costing the same.

That's a big presumption. What makes you think the extra money goes into longer lasting quality instead of just high-margin but pretty unimportant features?

Anyway, I was GOING to say that a pattern of the purchasing philosophy you expressed is probably one of the reasons you're in a position of having to make a decision about your little $154 fund or your snowball.

But then you came back and posted that you see the light already so I won't say it.

xtn
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Have to agree with suburbcaroline; why do you feel the need to immediately replace your dryer?
Outdoors, basement, garage -- all will do for drying and as a bonus your clothing & linens last longer.
My house came equipped with four lines in the basement; i purchased another four double-tier hanging sweater dryers from one of those Walter-Drake type catalogues for peanuts -- use them for tops, underwear, etc. -- sometimes in the hot humid months I throw the towels and sheets in the dryer as a timesaver but really, you'd be surprised at how quickly your laundry is done and how you save on wear and tear by hanging it. At least until you can afford to pay cash for the dryer you want.
And hanging/pinning is nice stretching exercise. :)
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Have to agree with suburbcaroline; why do you feel the need to immediately replace your dryer?
Outdoors, basement, garage -- all will do for drying and as a bonus your clothing & linens last longer.
My house came equipped with four lines in the basement; i purchased another four double-tier hanging sweater dryers from one of those Walter-Drake type catalogues for peanuts -- use them for tops, underwear, etc. -- sometimes in the hot humid months I throw the towels and sheets in the dryer as a timesaver but really, you'd be surprised at how quickly your laundry is done and how you save on wear and tear by hanging it. At least until you can afford to pay cash for the dryer you want.
And hanging/pinning is nice stretching exercise. :)


I don't know about SeeFoolRun, but I live in an apartment, and do not have access to a basement, garage or outdoors. A lot of buildings these days do not have basements; they have a crawl space where the furnace lives. Some places don't have garages, or else the garage is where the car lives. And in a lot of areas, hanging the laundry outside is not allowed under HOA rules.

And, while stretching and so on is good for most people, there are also people who have various ailments that make hanging a laundry impossible.

So, while I don't know why SeeFoolRun and his wife made the decision they did, it's possible that it was the best decision possible, and that there were good reasons for having a dryer.

I know someone who installed a washer and dryer at his summer home in Maine, after decades of resistance. It finally struck him that every time his wife went into town (which was 17 miles away) to do the laundry, she spent a lot of money at various stores. The washer and dryer, in the long run, were cheaper. ;)

Nancy
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I know someone who installed a washer and dryer at his summer home in Maine, after decades of resistance. It finally struck him that every time his wife went into town (which was 17 miles away) to do the laundry, she spent a lot of money at various stores. The washer and dryer, in the long run, were cheaper. ;)


Then there's my dad. He once calculated that at the price it cost for my mother to use the washer at the laundromat, it would take some ridiculous amount of years to break even, so he didn't want to buy a washer for their place in FL.

The next time my brother and I went down for a visit, we borrowed his car, went to the nearest appliance store, and bought a washer that was delivered that night.

We told my father to throw the calculator away.
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Then there's my dad. He once calculated that at the price it cost for my mother to use the washer at the laundromat, it would take some ridiculous amount of years to break even, so he didn't want to buy a washer for their place in FL.

I'll bet your mother never stuck the laundry in the dryer and went off to spend $117.00 for stenciling supplies!

Your father would have been first in line at the appliance store if that had happened.

Nancy
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Back in the day (10 years or so ago) i knew several apartment-dwellers who bought a couple of cheap wooden folding racks, some over-the-bathtup sweater dryers etc. -- less than $50 -- and did perfectly well for years drying clothing in their kitchen, bathrooms and dining areas. And saved a lot on their natural gas bill (they had an en-suite dryer, just chose not to use it.)

Heck, don't many/most Europeans employ an "airing cupboard" rather than a fossil-fueled-powered dryer? Are they plagued by allergies/mold issues/etc. any more than the average American with air conditioning equipment? And come on, how many people are really so disabled they can't fling a pair of panties or a T-shirt over a shower-stall clothesline?

People can allocate money however they wish but if I were in that kind of debt I'd at least try draping my jeans over the towel rack before I'd spend $780 on an appliance. In the winter, in climates where forced-air heating is norm, it takes 7 to 8 hours (i.e. overnight while sleeping) to dry the toughest jeans, and far less for lighter garments.
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People can allocate money however they wish but if I were in that kind of debt I'd at least try draping my jeans over the towel rack before I'd spend $780 on an appliance. In the winter, in climates where forced-air heating is norm, it takes 7 to 8 hours (i.e. overnight while sleeping) to dry the toughest jeans, and far less for lighter garments.

Agreed, and definitely. (Although we don't know how much space he has). And a drying rack isn't the same as a laundry line in the back yard that will result in a hostile letter from the HOA.

But I'll tell ya, in summer, in my area, it would take about four days for a pair of jeans to dry. And even then they'd be clammy.

But I'd probably try Best Buy or the scratch and dent places for a dryer if I was struggling to pay down debt. It might still overrun my emergency fund, but it would be cheaper than the expensive places.

Nancy
Towels are nicer when they're dried in a drier, too.
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A lot of things are "nicer" but frankly i find being debt-free the nicest. I could go out and buy four dryers tomorrow without even moving extra money into my checking account but i still hang dry 80% of our laundry. It saves fuel, saves money, saves wear & tear on the garments. And in the winter adds a modicum of needed humidity to the house.

The real point of this whole thread is that the OP had a knee-jerk reaction -- dryer broken, must replace -- insted of contemplating alternatives such as line-drying, laundromats, trading laundry privileges with friends, neighbors or relatives, etc. And threw in the "we buy only the best," to boot.

Well, he's the one in debt and I'm not, as I fumble for my clothespins and contemplate next year's vacation. Chacoun a son gout. :)
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The real point of this whole thread is that the OP had a knee-jerk reaction -- dryer broken, must replace -- insted of contemplating alternatives such as line-drying, laundromats, trading laundry privileges with friends, neighbors or relatives, etc. And threw in the "we buy only the best," to boot.

Well, he's the one in debt and I'm not, as I fumble for my clothespins and contemplate next year's vacation. Chacoun a son gout. :)


Yes, but I think if you read his later posts, it's occurred to him that there were other methods of dealing with this, and he's beginning to move beyond the "I need a dryer I must go out and get a new one" type thinking.

I rent an apartment. A washer and drier came with it. The sight of them made up my mind, despite the duct tape over the hole in the linoleum. I could rent a much nicer apartment, but then I wouldn't be able to put money aside for retirement and emergency funds.

I hear you. I understand you. But SeeFoolRun is just beginning to catch up.

:)

Nancy
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i vote for parting with the gun.

BklynBorn
nosy


Don't worry, I could part with several and still outfit a small army quite nicely :)
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A lot of things are "nicer" but frankly i find being debt-free the nicest. I could go out and buy four dryers tomorrow without even moving extra money into my checking account but i still hang dry 80% of our laundry. It saves fuel, saves money, saves wear & tear on the garments. And in the winter adds a modicum of needed humidity to the house.

The real point of this whole thread is that the OP had a knee-jerk reaction -- dryer broken, must replace -- insted of contemplating alternatives such as line-drying, laundromats, trading laundry privileges with friends, neighbors or relatives, etc. And threw in the "we buy only the best," to boot.

Well, he's the one in debt and I'm not, as I fumble for my clothespins and contemplate next year's vacation. Chacoun a son gout. :)


I'm glad you're perfect.

I can't wait until my debt is all paid off so I can flaunt that in the faces of others who are beginning to come to terms with their own. That will give me such a great feeling of self-worth.

Wow - could write a check for four whole dryers and go on vacation every year. And yet, you manage to remain so humble with such unheard of wealth. You are truly an inspiration to us all.
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It's not clear to me why a person would direct any money to a debt that's not accruing any interest.

In this case, it's because the new debt shouldn't have occurred in the first place. Yes, I could raise the additional cash & apply it to something else accruing interest and come out ahead in the long run. But this is simply a measure to ensure the lesson sticks. Penance.
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I have lots of space. Outdoors isn't a good option, but the house is pretty big.

It's just that my time is worth too much to me to not use conveniences of modern appliances. Also consider a large budget cut for me was not taking clothes (shirts & pants) to cleaners but doing them myself instead - saving $4/day, 6 days/week. So I'm already spending much more time with laundry than before.

I work 60-65 hrs/week at my job, I'm a full time student, and I'm trying to grow a small business. Other than a couple hours on the golf course every two weeks, my time is used for things that will hopefully improve my life and financial situation much more than hanging clothes to dry.

But I understand what you're getting at.
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SeeFoolRun,

Sorry you feel so defensive when confronted with alternative methods of addressing your dilemma.

Yeah, i could write a check (or rather swipe a rewards credit card that has been paying my gasoline bill for two years) tomorrow for four dryers, four vacations and maybe two cars. And that's only one credit card -- the one that's paid off in full each month. The others are in the back of a drawer somewhere, unused. I own a house, a lakeside cottage, a substantial tax-deferred retirement nest egg and I don't owe anyone a cent. Still on the sunny side of 45, too.

I'm not perfect but I did get to this relaxed and solvent situation by exercising self-restraint, creativity and foresight. And yes, I AM proud that my discipline, hard work and resourcefulness have paid off in the form of a comfortable, debt-free and prudently self-indulgent life-style. I'm sorry if that offends you but really -- isn't that what you are seeking, too? I hope some day you feel the same measure of pride in your accomplishments. But there are no magic wands -- it's the non-sexy things like hanging clothing to dry that can tip the scales. Good luck to you.
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"The real point of this whole thread is that the OP had a knee-jerk reaction -- dryer broken, must replace -- insted of contemplating alternatives such as line-drying, laundromats, trading laundry privileges with friends, neighbors or relatives, etc."

I think we are the last in our neighborhood (besides my Mother) to have a clothesline. I used it last weekend to dry towels, and it was fantastic. I'm surprised more people don't use this "green" alternative to electric or gas dryers.
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I think that the decision whether to repair, replace (with what?) and whether to go without is one that should be kneejerked. In the past year, I've faced that decision myself on several things, particularly since we moved (twice) in that time. New houses (new to us, not actually a "new" house) seem to come with a lot of those decision.

There are some who will always kneejerk that someone in debt should always go without or, perhaps, repair. A lot of the time that is not practical and is just not wanted.

Awhile ago my dryer actually did break.

Where I used to live I couldn't have used a clothes line outside (against restrictions), we have no basements and hanging clothes on a line insider the house for 6 people is, umm, impractical (we had a broken dryer for a short period so I am absolutely sure on this one).

I guess I could have driven miles to a laundromat (none close to me at all) every time I wanted to dry things (all the time it seems like since we run our washing machine on a daily basis...6 people generates a lot of laundry)...of course, that would have a cost in terms of gasoline, wear and tear on the car and time, and of course all those quarters.

But....I'll make it simpler. I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to have my house covered in wet laundry. I didn't want to drive to the laundromat several times a week. I would have been miserable and didn't want to do that. So, I didn't.

I did consider repairing the dryer. I actually got a quote for it. I could buy a cheap new one for what the repair would cost. So...I bought a new dryer. And a new washing machine while I was at it (had been planning to replace in a year or two).

In the old days I would have charged it. This time I had a choice of 0% interest or 15% off the price. I had the money so I took the 15% off. Yes, I could have used the money to pay down my debt more aggressively and I considered buying a cheaper dryer but I decided to buy what I wanted.

At the same time, I didn't do that with everything. The dishwasher broke and we did get it repaired...and then it broke again ...and again so we replaced it after 3 months of washing everything by hand.

There were other things that we didn't replace or bought something very inexpensive. I would love to replace DH's car (almost 200,000 miles on it) but I don't want a car loan so we repaired some things and he got in a car pool for work to save mileage.

When I have made large purchases in the last year I did actually calculate how much less interest I would pay if I applied that amount to my debt instead of buying it and found that the amount was small enough for it to be worth it to me.

I know that some people can be draconian and can rid themselves of all pleasures and conveniences while in debt paydown. And, if desperate enough, I would to. But, personally, I do much, much, much better with my budgeting if I can still use my dryer.
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I know that some people can be draconian and can rid themselves of all pleasures and conveniences while in debt paydown. And, if desperate enough, I would to. But, personally, I do much, much, much better with my budgeting if I can still use my dryer.

Greetings, determinedmom, I hear you loud and clear on what keeps you motivated and willing to keep working on debt retirement. And that comes down to MAKING CHOICES. You chose to get a new washer and dryer because of the value they represented to you in every respect (perhaps a good value given the 15% discount, certainly a good value in terms of the convenience they represented).

But the emphasis is that having chosen the washer and dryer, you did not then suddenly choose to acquire every other potential item that had advantages or appeal, given that they also had the disadvantage of costing you money when you were trying to pay down debt. So you made a conscious decision about what you valued and chose to proceed with those items and to forego others.

That's what I see as the light for SeeFoolRun beginning to dawn. I know from his prior posts that he has felt a degree of deprivation in his life which could make the initial acquisition of things maybe more attractive than their actual ongoing costs later take the luster off of. But I heard him say that he really is realizing what you have already learned, and it is going to make all of his future (both the near-term and the long-term) be that much brighter and better-balanced to stratify his wants and needs to focus on the highest-priority and leave the lower-priority items unbought during debt paydown.

The risk I see of RubyGlass's posting style is that, at first blush, it can sound sanctimonious or smug. Both you and RubyGlass are doing clearly very well, but with your posts, I see the process of how you weigh your priorities and how you put your values into action. With RubyGlass, I hear the end result, but don't get the same step-by-step sense of the epiphany about what it means to decide to choose, and what it feels like to go without, having chosen to go with something else important enough NOT to sacrifice. I'm hoping that RubyGlass will share more about what it took, step-by-step, to reach financial security.

I love to read about everyone's success but I am especially appreciative to read about the hard work and the "scales-fell-from-my-eyes" realizations that comprise attainment of better financial standing. I wanted to give you a special shout-out to say thank you for a year of keenly insightful posts, and for staying your own course and not just pleasing the crowd (or becoming defensive). You have been a good teacher and a good role model. I thank you for that and know I speak for many who have also learned to admire your determination, tenacity and even humility.

xraymd
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I'll bet your mother never stuck the laundry in the dryer and went off to spend $117.00 for stenciling supplies!



My mother never had or used a dryer. She always hung the clothes on the line, including in the middle of winter, and we lived in RI.

When they moved to FL and when my dad was doing this calculating, she'd drive the laundry down to the clubhouse where the laundromat was located, wash the clothes in the washer, and then drive the wet laundry home to hang on the line instead of using the dryer.

The dryer and the dishwasher were two appliances she never saw a use for. She never got a dishwasher because she said she already had one. That would have been my father who hand-washed the dishes after they retired.

My dad finally got both a dryer and a dishwasher after my mother passed away and he remarried.
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I think we are the last in our neighborhood (besides my Mother) to have a clothesline. I used it last weekend to dry towels, and it was fantastic. I'm surprised more people don't use this "green" alternative to electric or gas dryers.


My mother always hung the clothes on the line as long as it was above freezing. Then she hung them in the basement.

I think most people today don't do it because a lot of them are working, and there is no time to hang the laundry out. I know that applies in my case. If I'm at work all day, then the only time I could hang laundry out to dry is on the weekends. Considering that I do roughly 10 loads of laundry a week, I don't think there are enough hours in the day to do that much laundry where I'm hanging it on the line to dry.

I don't think it's that people don't want to use this green alternative. I think they simply don't have the time because they are not home during the day.

I do have to say that I really miss the smell of sheets and towels that have been dried on the line.
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I think we are the last in our neighborhood (besides my Mother) to have a clothesline. I used it last weekend to dry towels, and it was fantastic. I'm surprised more people don't use this "green" alternative to electric or gas dryers.

Too much pollen and other allergens, especially in the spring.
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But I'll tell ya, in summer, in my area, it would take about four days for a pair of jeans to dry. And even then they'd be clammy.

I sometimes dry my jeans and other things like towels in the dryer, but only part way. I'll put them in the dryer for a 15-20 minute timed dry and then hang them. It saves on energy, the jeans actually end up looking NICER, and the stuff doesn't have that "crispy" feeling that things which were only hung on the line have.

Just a thought for you all!

d
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this comes up constantly on this board - financial progress (hard numbers)"versus" emotional satisfaction that allows us to go on, even though ultimately we pay a bit more in interest.

for me, the best solution, crafted over time on this board, is clarity mixed with flexibility. "clarity" means i clearly see and accept the implications of both approaches. they are both reality. it doesn't have to be one "versus" the other.

but to say that one is better than the other, or that one is more important and the other is not, has not worked for me.

for example, part of the agreement with my ex-husband was that we would each assume part of our joint debt. that left me with a chase card with (formerly joint) 5% rate and (my own) visa with a 15% rate.

clearly, it would make more sense mathematically to pay off the visa first. but *i wanted to cut the connection with my ex, gosh durn it*!!! so i paid the chase first. the whole thing - last week, by the way.

8-)

what if the chase had been 0% and the visa 30.99%? that might have been a different story, because the dollars and sense benefit might have outweighed the emotional benefit.

whew. i hope this makes sense to someone other than me!

BklynBorn
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I sometimes dry my jeans and other things like towels in the dryer, but only part way. I'll put them in the dryer for a 15-20 minute timed dry and then hang them. It saves on energy, the jeans actually end up looking NICER, and the stuff doesn't have that "crispy" feeling that things which were only hung on the line have.
I've started doing this too. I still am a bit hooked to the dryer, but I hang all my clothes in nice weather. I definitely dry sheets and towels. But I actually find line drying is better for the other stuff. It's not only cheaper - it's easier on the clothes.

I'm about 50/50 (I still dry in the dryer when short for time), but I'm trying to hang dry more.
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BklynBorn,

I agree, it is all about finding the balance that gets you through the long haul.

Hooray for the paid-off Chase!! Did we dance for that? I'm doing a little jig now.

Tanaquil
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Well, xraymd, if you read back through the thread you'll find that i (and others) made innocuous and helpful posts about alternatives to buying a new dryer -- only to receive a snippy and defensive retort from the OP.

I'm sorry he's unhappy about his previous financial missteps and that he feels enough angst over the $780 dryer decision to post about it here. Some of us tried to suggest that he had other options and described our personal experience with them (i.e. the ease of hanging clothing to dry.) But if he would rather stay in debt that much longer, more power to him.

And, shrug, if pointing out that my way (being creative, being resourceful,looking for alternatives to whipping out the wallet) sounds sanctimonious or smug, so be it. I've paid my dues in the form of foregone vacations, long hours at the office, old cars, second-hand furniture, drugstore make-up vs. department store brands, etc. etc. Now I can pretty much buy/do as I like -- I'm reaping the harvest and I do feel pretty self-satisfied, actually.

As one financial planner summed it up, "It's sixth-grade math. The rest is self-discipline." I have that...no epiphany needed, no tales from the Credit Card Slough of Despair, no scales-falling-from-the-eyes moment.
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Other than agreement with yddeyma and suburbancaroline and a tongue-in-cheek response to BklynBorn's, there were no other posters to whom I replied prior. I have no issue with those presenting opposing viewpoints.

No snippiness directed to anyone other than you. The post that elicited that response was neither innocuous nor helpful.

But rather than point out exactly how you were and are being an @$$, as I doubt my words would reach you way atop that horse, I'd rather just add you to my ignore list. I haven't the patience or desire for sanctimonious drivel.

RubyGlass added to your Ignored Fools list
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I bought a dryer this week, too, and a washer, and I also used a no interest, no payments for 6 months offer at Lowe's. However, my total cost, excluding sales tax, was $806 for both, after a 10%-off coupon that Lowe's gives when you move to a new place. (Home Depot does the same.)

I found that the major differences in the prices of dryers stem from three things: capacity, features, and (to a lesser extent) materials. The dryer you chose is a very large model, which you might need if you also have a large-capacity washer. I did not need more than standard capacity.

Features make a lot of difference in the price. Moisture sensors (standard in some mid-priced and all higher models), electronic controls, and so forth all add to the price. Unfortunately, they also detract from reliability. In that respect, more basic dryers tend to be more reliable, because a dryer is a rather simple machine and basic ones have fewer parts to break.

The only clear difference I found in construction quality is that the most basic models tend to have plastic drums. Within a given manufacturer's line, many of the internal components are common to a lot of different models.

While I was shopping I checked the Consumer Reports statistics for reliability. They are not broken down by model, only by brand, but it is noteworthy that Roper, an inexpensive brand, had the fewest repairs and serious problems. Whirlpool was next best, while expensive brands such as KitchenAid had many more problems. Fisher & Paykel, a very expensive brand, didn't rate as well as the price would lead one to predict. (Samsung was not rated, as there weren't very many Samsung dryers in use in the U.S. during the period the repair history covered.)

Now, my recollection is that both Roper and KitchenAid are manufactured by Whirlpool. It is not believable that Whirlpool does a better job of design and manufacturing on Roper and worse on KitchenAid. The difference appears to be that the Roper models are very basic, low-end models with no electronics or fancy features, while the KitchenAid models are designed for the high end, with lots of extra features.

As for the actual question about how to allocate funds - for what you have in cash now, I think it would be best to pay only the actual minimums on all 0% offers (if the Lowe's is "no payments," that would be nothing unless there is another balance on the same account) and direct as much into savings as possible, with the goal of having not only enough cash to pay off the 0% offers before they end, but also to have some cash remaining.
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Well, xraymd, if you read back through the thread you'll find that i (and others) made innocuous and helpful posts about alternatives to buying a new dryer -- only to receive a snippy and defensive retort from the OP.

I'm sorry he's unhappy about his previous financial missteps and that he feels enough angst over the $780 dryer decision to post about it here. Some of us tried to suggest that he had other options and described our personal experience with them (i.e. the ease of hanging clothing to dry.) But if he would rather stay in debt that much longer, more power to him.

And, shrug, if pointing out that my way (being creative, being resourceful,looking for alternatives to whipping out the wallet) sounds sanctimonious or smug, so be it. I've paid my dues in the form of foregone vacations, long hours at the office, old cars, second-hand furniture, drugstore make-up vs. department store brands, etc. etc. Now I can pretty much buy/do as I like -- I'm reaping the harvest and I do feel pretty self-satisfied, actually.




I Rec'ed one or two of your earlier posts. I also Rec'ed DeterminedMom's post with a slightly opposing viewpoint. I think I might have stepped on the toes of one or two CCCD board posters along the way. Sometimes one just gets caught up in, "I was just trying to say ..." and miss the fact that the point stands on its own merit.


As one financial planner summed it up, "It's sixth-grade math. The rest is self-discipline." I have that...no epiphany needed, no tales from the Credit Card Slough of Despair, no scales-falling-from-the-eyes moment.

I misplaced my CA car registration renewal, and didn't realize one could renew registration without completing the Smog test. Yup, discipline- all I had to do was visit the CA DMV website last week and I could have saved myself $40.

C'est la vie,
Hohum
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"Where I used to live I couldn't have used a clothes line outside (against restrictions)"

Exactly why we bought in a neighborhood with no restrictive covenants. If I'm paying several hundred thousand dollars for a home, we darn well better be able to put up a clothesline without being visited by the association nazis.
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Exactly why we bought in a neighborhood with no restrictive covenants. If I'm paying several hundred thousand dollars for a home, we darn well better be able to put up a clothesline without being visited by the association nazis.

You know, people are different. My mother bought a condo because she had reached a point where even trying to negotiate with lawn companies and people with snow plows was tiring. The condo association takes care of plowing the drive, mowing the lawn, shoveling the walk.

Many people like HOAs because they make sure that none of the houses fall into disrepair, that weeds don't grow ten feet tall, that the neighborhood is attractive and well-kept. Many of the owners are people who, for a variety of reasons, believe that they will be selling within a certain time period, say five to ten years. They like HOAs because they know that their home won't lose value because the place next to them has fourteen rusted refrigerators and driers on the front lawn.

People have different needs when it comes to housing. You knew that you were buying in a neighborhood that you had lived in all your life. You know your neighbors, your mother was nearby, you were assured of regular value. Not everyone has that kind of choice. If they need to move because of a job offer, they want to find a neighborhood where they can trust that housing values should remain at least stable.

You were fortunate that you found a good job near your mother's home, and could buy a house nearby when you decided to get married. Other people are not so fortunate.

Nancy
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visited by the association nazis.

We use Wise Guys. Maybe I should send them round, so they could explain the benefits of joining.

SoccerDad
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Exactly why we bought in a neighborhood with no restrictive covenants.

Which is OK, until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home.

martybl - likes CC&R's
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And, shrug, if pointing out that my way (being creative, being resourceful,looking for alternatives to whipping out the wallet) sounds sanctimonious or smug, so be it. I've paid my dues in the form of foregone vacations, long hours at the office, old cars, second-hand furniture, drugstore make-up vs. department store brands, etc. etc. Now I can pretty much buy/do as I like -- I'm reaping the harvest and I do feel pretty self-satisfied, actually.

As one financial planner summed it up, "It's sixth-grade math. The rest is self-discipline." I have that...no epiphany needed, no tales from the Credit Card Slough of Despair, no scales-falling-from-the-eyes moment.


Greetings, RubyGlass, I think the part about paying your dues could make for some worthwhile reading. What I've seen over the years of posting here on this board is that many who first come here are in pretty dire straits and have to learn how to set priorities. For myself, I had some good role models in my parents who were frugal and who I believe truly understood how to make money do what it can do best: pay off the past, pay for the future and make the present a fun place to live. The lessons stood me in good stead as I spent well over a decade paying off debt from medical school, saving all the while even when in debt and learning to be ever-increasingly frugal and careful with my choices since I had to forego things I wanted once I'd decided I was willing to spend for something else I wanted more. Learning to emulate my parents and to save up for wants, apportion for needs and to pace my expenditures has stood me in good stead yet has been a process of ongoing evolution even now that my debt has been fully repaid for nearly a year.

So I am here because I did have debt and did have lessons to learn, and then I've stayed in hopes of offering insight and methods that have worked for me in hopes they might work for others. I see that you also have insight and methods (which are valuable) but I am curious to know more about what brought you to this board and how you came to be similarly frugal and financially stable, especially if you did not have to go through any epiphanies to get there. There are indeed posters here, like 2gifts, who also appeared to be money-savvy from the youngest of ages. But I consider her story to be fairly rare: most of the rest of us had much to have to overcome before we learned. That's why I thought your own story about creativity and resourcefulness - especially if you came by it naturally - could be interesting to read.

xraymd
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Good idea.


SeeFoolRun added to your Ignored Fools list
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Which is OK, until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home.
I wouldn't give a hoot about this. Heck, one block from my house there's a house painted with (tastefully done) rainbows and three blocks from my house there's one painted with a sky mural.

I hate CCR's and deliberately bought a SFH so as not to deal with them.

I get some people like them, but there are lots of us who don't.
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I had tenants moving into my rental house from Detroit recently. Usually, I leave washers and dryewrs up to the tenants so that I don't get involved in repairs and such.


However, I wanted to be helpful to these recent college grads and buddies, migrating into town from a long ways away.


Anyway, I plumbed in a gas supply line to the area of the dryer, since the current electric plug is a three pronger, and unless it's an old dryer a four prong is the standard these days.


Then I did a little looking on Carigslist and found a working dryer someone was giving away for free. I picked that up and installed it. The pipe, gas shutoff valve, pipe fittings and flex connector were all no cost since I had them sitting in my basement. My out of pocket expense was about twenty miles of driving and a couple of 4" elbows to connect the dryer to the exhaust vent (which I'd replaced recently).


My experience is that washers and dryers, dishwashers, ranges, furnaces and water heaters are readily available for free if you want to look around a bit. That takes some time, but so does shopping for new equipment.

No doubt my experience as a repairman gives me an advantage in such deals, but someone who cultivates home repair skills can take advantage of some portion of that anyway, I'd suppose.



Seattle Pioneer
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(from SP)

SeeFoolRun added to your Ignored Fools list

It's an Ignore-a-thon!

Tanaquil

Not saying who I'm Ignoring. I'm a Stealth Ignorer.

(Actually, I prefer not to Ignore anyone. I find most people have worthwhile points to make, even when I don't especially like what they're saying, or how they say. Not saying I don't understand the impulse, though.)
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No doubt my experience as a repairman gives me an advantage in such deals, but someone who cultivates home repair skills can take advantage of some portion of that anyway, I'd suppose.

I think it's not just a matter of your skills, I think it's your habits. You've made a habit, for years, of looking, not necessarily for the cheapest item, but for the item with the best value. That takes a lifetime of learning, or else a lot of experience and determination.

My sister-in-law once decided that the whole family needed cross-country skis for Christmas. One pair had to be bought new. All the rest were used, and she made trades in some cases.

It takes, well, I guess I'd call it a reorientation in thinking, to hunt for something used, but usable, rather than simply going out and buying off-the-shelf-new.

Nancy
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Thanks. I've been reading this board for about as long as you have and am familiar with your story. Congratulations on your perseverence.

I've noticed that, despite the legions of posters who've come and gone (remember Momolio and the donation scam? or was that the LBYM board?) there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it. If we don't have horror stories past or prsent to share, our common sense advice is scorned or P-boxed -- unless it's wrapped in smarmy, enabling coddling and attaboys for the slightest evidence of mature self-control.

That's not my style, and it surely won't suit everyone who posts here. But then, I don't have BK rushing at me like an oncoming freight train as posters like BraveMom and SeeFoolRun do. As I said earlier, each to their own taste.

And btw, as an M.D. surely you know that one needn't suffer a disease to understand the treatment options. :)
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<<Which is OK, until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home.
I wouldn't give a hoot about this. Heck, one block from my house there's a house painted with (tastefully done) rainbows and three blocks from my house there's one painted with a sky mural.
>>


Ummm. I visited a subdivision where I used to have rental property and where I used to be a HOA officer.


These are VERY small lots, but I did find one house with six cars parked in the driveway and yard.

Several of the common areas set aside as parks have been fenced off by neighboring property owners, and one of them was entirely taken over by a contractor, who'd built a shed on it.


Unfortunately, the HOA was taken over by people who want to be able to do just these kinds of things.


There a lot more I could describe. Let me know if this is the kind of wide open freedom you value. It's also the highest crime area in the suburb of Federal Way, south of Seattle. The Police Department has a substation in the HOA Community Center, just to be close to the people they deal with so often.

You think an eclectic paint job is the worst thing that can happen? Guess again.




Seattle Pioneer
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remember Momolio and the donation scam?

So you're definitely not new here.
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<<It's an Ignore-a-thon!

Tanaquil

Not saying who I'm Ignoring. I'm a Stealth Ignorer.
>>


Normally, I agree. I usually think it's rude to publicly announce you are going to P-box someone.


But I may just start announcing that I'm P-boxing people who announce they are P-boxing people.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<No doubt my experience as a repairman gives me an advantage in such deals, but someone who cultivates home repair skills can take advantage of some portion of that anyway, I'd suppose.

I think it's not just a matter of your skills, I think it's your habits. You've made a habit, for years, of looking, not necessarily for the cheapest item, but for the item with the best value. That takes a lifetime of learning, or else a lot of experience and determination.

My sister-in-law once decided that the whole family needed cross-country skis for Christmas. One pair had to be bought new. All the rest were used, and she made trades in some cases.

It takes, well, I guess I'd call it a reorientation in thinking, to hunt for something used, but usable, rather than simply going out and buying off-the-shelf-new.

Nancy
>>


Those are very kind and generous remarks, thank you.


True, too, from my point of view. But to a lot of people, frugality is a foreign country they've never visited.




Seattle Pioneer
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The sky mural guy has a matching sky van parked on the street. I don't think it even runs. It is parked on the street and has never moved a foot in 4 years. It is catty-cornered from a former gas station housing a number of partially disassembled vehicles, some sculpture, and a wild garden.

None of it bothers me.

People who choose to live here, really don't care much such things and tend to keep to themselves about their opinions about other people's property.
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The sky mural guy has a matching sky van parked on the street. I don't think it even runs. It is parked on the street and has never moved a foot in 4 years. It is catty-cornered from a former gas station housing a number of partially disassembled vehicles, some sculpture, and a wild garden.

Aw man, I really miss Berkeley.

Tanaquil

in all sincerity.
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Aw man, I really miss Berkeley.

Yeah, I love it here. I lived in SF for 14 years, but for the last five or so, REALLY wanted to move to Berkeley. More than anything, I love the gardens here. Wild, sprawling, full of native plants, cottage-y, lush, uncontrolled. No clipped lawns here.
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<<The sky mural guy has a matching sky van parked on the street. I don't think it even runs. It is parked on the street and has never moved a foot in 4 years. It is catty-cornered from a former gas station housing a number of partially disassembled vehicles, some sculpture, and a wild garden.

None of it bothers me.

People who choose to live here, really don't care much such things and tend to keep to themselves about their opinions about other people's property.>>


How about loud music played by neighbors?



But it sounds like you have found yourself a true Home. That's great, although for the same reason a good many other people prefer homeowner associations with teeth.




Seattle Pioneer
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But it sounds like you have found yourself a true Home. That's great, although for the same reason a good many other people prefer homeowner associations with teeth.
Absolutely! (to both statements...). I think it's great people have the choice to live in associations with HOA and CCRs. For them. Not for me. I'm glad it's not the dominant option, and that I have a choice.

I feel so lucky to live where I do. It is truly my home.
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Thanks. I've been reading this board for about as long as you have and am familiar with your story. Congratulations on your perseverence.

Greetings, RubyGlass, I did not know you've been here a long time! Guess I was fooled by the 'New' icon next to your name. Indeed I do remember Momolio (that was on this board around 2001) and I remember the poster who spearheaded the entire episode (one of her monikers was Charet, I believe). Anyway, having been a poster here myself since 1999 (can't believe it's been so long already), I truly believe that the process of becoming financially literate is a process of evolution. So many posters who do not drive by, but do stay, eventually DO become among the learned and what they now know compared to what they knew when they first came is immense, and what they share can be very enlightening for those who follow them who come here equally new to how to learn (sometimes after having to unlearn).

Actually, I think that there is plenty of room for posters who are financially secure and happy about it - not just 2gifts but rad also comes to mind (and I sure hope to be classified in their ranks!), as well as SeattlePioneer even though he does evoke more controversy than the average poster. I know that when I was stretching for my own financial security, I read with alacrity the accounts of those who were already successful with debt repayment and with net worth enhancement in hopes that I could be eventually saying the same things they said. Speaking of old posters, I remember well a couple of posters PosNetWorth and Adenovir both of whom were actually MD's or married to them, and who were much farther out on the curve than was I. I remember them as being financially savvy and I used to appreciate their recounting how they got there, and stayed there. So I think that there is a lot of dignity here, both learned and shared, and I like to help contribute to that when I recognize it.

xraymd
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"Which is OK, until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home."

Funny you say that. A mile or two down the road from here, a guy who is friends with my sister, received a home from his grandfather as part of a will settlement. Nothing spectacular about the house - simple and small. What has happened though is that all around that little house, big McMansions have been built, many by wealthy residents of Brooklyn, who have moved down here to the NJ Shore. The neighborhood is within walking distance of a synagouge, which makes it even more attractive to these folks. And right smack in the middle of these gigantic homes, is this guy's little well-kept, house with a beautiful garden, that he painted (I swear this is true) lavender. He told my sister recently that pretty regularly, various neighbors knock on his door trying to buy the house from him, offerring him a good deal of money. He's a guy of simple means, and has no intention of selling or moving anywhere. So there he sits, in his Grandfather's former house, that was there long before the McMansions and their owners from NY came in to town. And the house is a lovely shade of purple. I love that story.
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"until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home."

I guess it depends on your perspective. The new owners behind us cut down all these beautiful huge old growth oak trees to build a tennis court. To be honest with you . . . I would have preferred they paint the house lavender rather than cutting down those trees.
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"My mother bought a condo because she had reached a point where even trying to negotiate with lawn companies and people with snow plows was tiring. The condo association takes care of plowing the drive, mowing the lawn, shoveling the walk."

That I understand - a point well taken. The counter to that is my mother, who is still feisty and stubborn enough (wonder where I got it from) to not want to have a HOA dictate the terms under which she can live. That's why she continues to live in the home she shared with my dad and where they raised "us kids."
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When we decided for primarily economic reasons to buy an existing house rather than build one of the compromises was buying a house that had some deed restrictions although not very severe. We had sold our last house (which was in a subdivision with restrictions that were very strong -- had to get approval to plant new flowers in the back yard, 3 goldfish would have violated the pet restriction and so on). We were determined to build unrestricted. So we bought 3 acres of lovely unrestricted land.

But. we decided ultimately that our financial needs were better served by buying an existing house. We did look for one that was unrestricted but even in this semi-rural area restrictions are very common.

We finally bought a house on 2 acres that does have restrictions. They are fairly mild (ironically in some instances requiring the exact opposite of our old house restrictions...). We could indeed paint our house lavendar if we so desired (I love purple so fine with me) but getting permission to build a fence tall enough to keep our dogs in the hard was difficult.

I still would rather have no restrictions but it was a compromise we made. Ironically perhaps we sold our 3 acres at a profit to a man who bought the land because it was unrestricted. He was an owner of a tow truck and wanted to be able to park his truck at home....
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Guess I was fooled by the 'New' icon next to your name.

Silly you - you didn't realize that one of the advantages of the boards going free was the influx of old "New" posters and doppels.

martybl
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The new owners behind us cut down all these beautiful huge old growth oak trees to build a tennis court.

We aspire, someday, to have a lot big enough that we need to make decisions about what to do with the odd 7200 sq. ft. corner., but, as it is now, there isn't enough space for both the house and the tennis court. Trust me, however, our CC&R's are robust enough to require approval of a putting green, or a new swimming pool - we've been considering putting one in (always "next summer") and the plans have to be submitted well in advance. There was the minor drama a few years ago when the new neighbors moved in and put up a swingset/playhouse for their three children without getting prior approval. The HOA ended up approving it nunc pro tunc - but not before a few anxious moments.

martybl - making a mental note to make sure his next CC&R's prohibit tennis courts - could be seriously annoying next door
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there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it. If we don't have horror stories past or prsent to share, our common sense advice is scorned . . . I don't have BK rushing at me like an oncoming freight train as posters like BraveMom and SeeFoolRun do.

To use a religious analogy, ever since there have been revival meetings, the stars have been the ex-prostitutes and ex-dope dealers and ex-cons. Why? Because it's inspirational to see someone who has been saved from their past sins. However praiseworthy it might be to have not missed Sunday School in 45 years, it's not as dramatic.

Similarly, I find DM or SD's conversion and rise from debt more inspiring than your assertion, nine posts into this "new" identity, that you're doing really spiffy financially, and have achieved that goal by never acquiring bad habits in the first place.

And btw, as an M.D. surely you know that one needn't suffer a disease to understand the treatment options. :)

I also know that many patients suffering from a particularly malady find support groups, where they recieve support, inspiration and comaraderie from those in a similar situation, to be very helpful in fighting their illness. This board's culture has many of the characteristics of a support group, one of which is trying to keep the tone as positive as possible.

martybl - a little curious about whatever happened to RubyGlass' last identity - checked and found that both Dorothy, http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=31990599 and slippers, http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=32307306 were already taken.
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martybl - a little curious about whatever happened to RubyGlass' last identity - checked and found that both Dorothy, http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=31990599 and slippers, http://boards.fool.com/Profile.asp?uid=32307306 were already taken.

Didn't you see the mixup on the BUMMED thread? Where RubyGlass offered a suggestion, AJ explained why it wouldn't work, and lilacinn apologized for missing the crucial information?

RubyGlass is apparently lilacinn.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25836513

Nancy
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but rad also comes to mind

I almost posted earlier in the thread but this:

I *know* the first dozen replies will be a variation of "You don't need that much of a dryer, return it, get a $250 one instead, pay for it out of e-fund now, and cut up that Lowe's card". So I'll save you the trouble typing that :) For the sake of argument, assume that won't happen. We don't buy cheap appliances, tools, or furniture - we'd rather spend the money once to get something that is exactly what we want & will last a long time rather than continually replacing cheap stuff that wears out quickly.

made me come to a screaming halt. Strangely enough I bought a washer and dryer this week and went through an entirely different decision process which apparently is of no value to the OP. There's also an article in the latest Money magazine about where it's worth spending money and where it's not - mediocre article but an excellent point.

I make different choices and I think it definitely contributed to where I am.

rad
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Silly you - you didn't realize that one of the advantages of the boards going free was the influx of old "New" posters and doppels.

Greetings, martybl! You are so right - I am so gullible (and always have been). Or maybe just so concrete and literal that when something says "New" I believe what I read. Perhaps that's just because I am in many ways resistant to change, and have only ever wanted to be one person in my life, and that is exactly who I am. In fact, that's why I never did revise my own moniker once I established it, though I only had a year of radiology residency in 1999-2000 before returning to Internal Medicine.

Thanks for clueing me in to the unintended (or not?) side-effect of opening the boards. I remember the days of the doppels with somewhat mixed emotions. It was equally amusing and confusing, but then I am both easily amused AND easily confused. Glad you're the old reliable quick-minded, sharp-witted martybl I greatly enjoy - um, aren't you?

xraymd
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Strangely enough I bought a washer and dryer this week and went through an entirely different decision process which apparently is of no value to the OP. There's also an article in the latest Money magazine about where it's worth spending money and where it's not - mediocre article but an excellent point.

I make different choices and I think it definitely contributed to where I am.


Greetings, rad, I find your decision processes of inestimable value and have to say that I have learned an enormous amount from you over the many years, way back from when you started LBYM as RecoveringFool. What I have come to learn over nearly 10 years here is that while it can seem like your methods and approaches are being disregarded, there are others who are silent who are quietly learning and whose own epiphanies may have been sparked by something you said. But they prefer to do their own metamorphoses in private. It is not infrequent that someone with only a handful of posts (if any!), but who has been here a long time based on their anniversary date, drops in for a happy dance, saying thanks for all of the advice over a long stretch when they were lurking and going it alone.

I have also learned, with much lip-biting sometimes, to show patience for newer posters who don't seem to "get it" when they first arrive, but who do, with continued time and absorption of the advice, often have that lightbulb go off. Of course, determinedmom and SoccerDad9998 have already been mentioned. And now SeeFoolRun has spoken up about his own new dawning that there *are* other ways to handle money, and decisions, than maybe he'd ever truly known to explore. I also think of RegattaGirl and of FIgirl who both clearly learned right here how to revise a lot of their stinkin' thinkin' into actions that greatly improved their own situations.

Actually, staying here to post has some interesting parallels with my work as a physician. It takes sometimes nearly infinite patience to reckon with my patients who have developed personal habits that are not in the best interests of their health, and my role is to supply them with information and encouragement to make strides towards altering those habits for something more healthful. Some of my patients are very resistant, and are not likely to make any more than token changes. But other of my patients have had deep and lasting success with quitting smoking, or shedding excess weight or controlling their blood pressure or their blood sugar, and so forth. Sometimes I want to yowl in frustration at some of the patients who seem almost determined NOT to get it and to act, but what truly keeps me going are the ones who surprise (and delight) me when they move out of the "pre-contemplation" phase into the action phase and start obtaining results that surprise and delight them. The point for me has been that I need to be very careful about not giving up on anyone prematurely. And, trust me (and I know you know), this can be a challenge. But the rewards of standing alongside someone who not only learns, but acts, to make new decisions towards their own betterment are worth it. I am no saint, and I get plenty impatient and sometimes downright derisive, but it takes A LOT to provoke that (note to the reading public: I am not inviting you to test me on this!) because I have come to relish the circumstance of being witness to the burgeoning self-regard and self-trust I see when someone's ephiphany starts showing results.

xraymd
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>> Exactly why we bought in a neighborhood with no restrictive covenants.

Which is OK, until your new next door neighbors decide that lavender is a perfect shade for a home.

===

A neighbor of my DSis must have liked Barney the dinasaur quite a bit. She painted her home dark purple with lime green trim. It's the neighborhood joke and DS is happy to only be renting.


As for me, I live in an RV resort. No hanging of laundry outside, but when I moved in I was pleased to see a large drying yard next to the laundry room. Plenty of clothes lines with a wall around them to keep the visual affect contained. Loved it!

Well, the city decided that our inground, individual garbage cans were archaic, and they cost too much to empty twice a week -- the guy riding on the back of the garbage truck is a job no more. They first sent around large bins designed to be picked up by an automated truck that takes only one person to operate. A few months into that, just when the bitching had begun to die down from the eyesore they created, the city made another change. We were designated a "business" rather than a "community of homes" and the individual bins were collected again. The resort had to find a place for a large trash compactor and a huge blue dumpster (18-wheeler trailer size) for recycle.

Guess where they put them. Yup! The drying yard now shares space with them. We lost 3/4s of the clothes lines, and I'll be darned if I'll hang my freshly washed clothes so close to these Stink Factories as they've been dubbed. Imagine what garbage smells like in the heat of an AZ summer! Even with only 80 people around to fill them, they stink just as bad as they do in the winter when the 1600+ snowbirds are here contributing as well. Those few who still line dry their clothes swear that the smell doesn't get into their clothes, but you just can't convince me of it. True, you can't tell who does or doesn't when you sit next to them, but still. I guess it's the thought that counts. Besides -- who wants to stand that near the trash long enough to hang or collect their clothes? At it's worst, the smell is so bad that when someone opens the door to enter or exit the laundry room, the occupants of the room "BOO" loudly!

So, back to doing one small load at a time and hanging the clothes on the shower rod at home. At least I can turn the ac/heat vent in the ceiling to blow into the shower to speed things up.


The only thing in life that doesn't change, is the fact that everything in life changes.


Penny
remembering the good old days -- 2 yrs past
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Learning to emulate my parents and to save up for wants, apportion for needs and to pace my expenditures has stood me in good stead yet has been a process of ongoing evolution even now that my debt has been fully repaid for nearly a year.

Your parents sound like good people who set a good example. I rather wish in some ways that I had had that example. My parents are wealthy and we have never wanted for anything while growing up, there was always plenty of money available to buy whatever we asked for. I suppose that has led to my having somewhat of a disconnect between prices and income now.

So I am here because I did have debt and did have lessons to learn, and then I've stayed in hopes of offering insight and methods that have worked for me in hopes they might work for others.

I need to also learn those lessons. I already look out for certain user IDs to be sure that I read every post they make here (e.g., 2gifts, Windowseat, and others) and yours is one.

Leo
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>>

How about loud music played by neighbors?

===

Hey! Turn your hearing aids down. That's what I did. Actually, when hearing aids are worn when turned off, they make pretty good ear plugs.

Oh -- I forgot. I'm differently abled. (grin) I got tired of being told I was "disabled" or "impaired" until I realized that I have "volume control of the world." Life got better after that. I highly recommend it for those who haven't worn them.


Penny
feeling mischievious this fine Sunday morning
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RubyGlass is apparently lilacinn.

I saw a post on the Best Of not long ago, and read the whole thread. In that thread, one poster said something, another poster replied, and then a third poster replied to the reply as if he was the first poster (something like "Yes, that's why I said that...").

Then yet another poster said that they thought Poster #1 and Poster #3 were the same person.

I'm trying to remember the name of the thread, but I can't now. The OP wanted a lawyer to help her husband's ex. I can't remember the two IDs either.

It's a bit disorienting when you are trying to sort everyone's ID out. I'm starting to recognize a few people consistently now, though, when I read the board, like yourself.

Leo
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But then, I don't have BK rushing at me like an oncoming freight train


I hate when he does that.
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RubyGlass is apparently lilacinn.


ew
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RubyGlass is apparently lilacinn.

Nancy - Thanks, I missed that thread and that information, but nice to know. Despite making it a high priority in my life to keep up with the new wave of doppels unleashed by the free boards, I sometimes fall behind.

martybl - still thinks subprimate does snarky condescending doppel better, though
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still thinks subprimate does snarky condescending doppel better, though

Greetings, martybl, now this is one doppel I did have partly figured out. Here is who subprimate has been in the past:

Mysterion
MunkeeNutz
EZduzzit
tvart88

Who else is subprimate? I must say that lately, especially over on the Buying or Selling a Home board, he has actually been surprisingly helpful, though his past identities have usually been snarky. In fact, I think he must have royally p*ssed off TPTB (the powers that be) sometime at the Fool, for in the past, he appears to have been literally kicked off and in some cases expunged. I have no inside knowledge, only the experience of having been stung by him back in 2004 when I was posting about some home repair issues (to my recollection) and recall that at the time, he had been kicking up some dust of one sort or another that then led to what seems to have been some take-no-prisoners Fool muzzling. And now he's back, but apparently better-behaved now.

xraymd
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Actually I used to have a work-related account & gave it up when my job duties changed. Now I have a personal account.
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Actually I used to have a work-related account & gave it up when my job duties changed. Now I have a personal account.

By the way, lilacinn, when you come back, and I very much hope you do, I suggest that you return as someone else entirely, without any connection to either lilacinn or RubyGlass.

Nancy
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I've noticed that, despite the legions of posters who've come and gone (remember Momolio and the donation scam? or was that the LBYM board?) there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it.

Actually, it would be more accurate to say that there is an innate resentment of people who are sanctimonious about their success and obviously look down on people who aren't in the same position but are trying to change their ways.

You know, people who post stuff like this:

If we don't have horror stories past or prsent to share, our common sense advice is scorned or P-boxed -- unless it's wrapped in smarmy, enabling coddling and attaboys for the slightest evidence of mature self-control.

I have a hell of a lot of respect for many people here who needed those attaboys when they took their first steps toward financial stability - much more so than people who choose to look down on everyone else.

d
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<<I've noticed that, despite the legions of posters who've come and gone (remember Momolio and the donation scam? or was that the LBYM board?) there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it. If we don't have horror stories past or prsent to share, our common sense advice is scorned or P-boxed -- unless it's wrapped in smarmy, enabling coddling and attaboys for the slightest evidence of mature self-control.
>>



Ummmm. Never noticed that myself.


I've been posting here since 1999, and never had any debt or credit problems, since I've always lived frugally.


I've never experienced the kinds of negatives you suggest above.




Seattle Pioneer
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I agree, Diana.

It's awfully difficult, even with anonymity, to come onto a public Board and ask for assistance of any kind.

I'd bet that a lot of the "needy" posters have experienced similar issues in their lives before posting - endless calls from creditors/collection agencies, judgemental friends/relatives, everyone having an opinion with the good ole' 20/20 of how you could've avoided the situation you're in.

Sure, it'd be easier to try and improve my life without offering up my weaknesses, fears, and mistakes, but what good would that do? Obviously there are a LOT of people on the planet that have done well with their financial situations/choices, and I wish them well. For about 20 years, I would've been included with "them".

Where a person finds themselves "now" is not necessarily where they have always been, and hopefully, not somewhere they'll remain.

Personally, I'm diggin' out, with my bare hands. I feel no shame in that. It's stressful, for sure, but it's what I'm going to do until my goal has been reached.

I'm not my debt.

Liberty10
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Ummmm. Never noticed that myself.


I've been posting here since 1999, and never had any debt or credit problems, since I've always lived frugally.


I've never experienced the kinds of negatives you suggest above.




Seattle Pioneer
2gifts [except I started posting a bit earlier[
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Actually I used to have a work-related account & gave it up when my job duties changed. Now I have a personal account.

Huh? And frankly, it's not like you held back as lilacinn, so why doppel it up?

Concerning the perceived resentment of the financially successful: only if they're obnoxious about it, as dianakalt said. You can't get much more successful than 2gifts, rad and SeattlePioneer, to name three long-time posters. All three of them have offered a lot of support and advice-- very, very little of it sugarcoated-- to others struggling with debt and personal demons.
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Actually I used to have a work-related account & gave it up when my job duties changed. Now I have a personal account.

That's actually the part that worries me the most. She may not have meant it that way, but it sounds as though she was posting as part of a job requirement, which makes me uneasy. Which means that employers may be deliberately using the board for some purpose (though I can't imagine what).

Very, very uneasy.

Nancy
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Indeed I do remember Momolio (that was on this board around 2001) and I remember the poster who spearheaded the entire episode (one of her monikers was Charet, I believe).

Okay, now I'm curious - I know it's totally off topic and totally none of my business, but what was this about? Did someone run a scam on TMF and get away with it?

Andrea
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Okay, now I'm curious - I know it's totally off topic and totally none of my business, but what was this about? Did someone run a scam on TMF and get away with it?

Here's the initial thread for Momolio.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15802775

She was last heard from exiting the building.

Mom + grease. The board name should have been enough to tip us off.

Nancy
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Seattle Pioneer wrote:
<No doubt my experience as a repairman gives me an advantage in such deals, but someone who cultivates home repair skills can take advantage of some portion of that anyway, I'd suppose.

Windowseat wrote:
I think it's not just a matter of your skills, I think it's your habits. You've made a habit, for years, of looking, not necessarily for the cheapest item, but for the item with the best value. That takes a lifetime of learning, or else a lot of experience and determination.

Seattle Pioneer wrote:
Those are very kind and generous remarks, thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~

hmmm...i think we're looking at a joelcorley / aj phenomenon here. (Fool romance, for newcomers.)

what do you say, folks? all in favor...?

BklynBorn
helpful
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Okay, now I'm curious - I know it's totally off topic and totally none of my business, but what was this about? Did someone run a scam on TMF and get away with it?

*************
I went back and through some of the old stuff. At first I thought Momolio was similar to moms4boys4 (or something like that) who posted rather a lot for a month or so and then disappeared off the board and then came back a few years later and repeated the performance.

In this case I think Momolia had posters donating to her through her daughter's (or her own) paypal account. What I haven't got to is why they donated. Looks like small sums of $10-20 but that can easily add up if you get enough.

I am still tired from traveling so I am mostly catching up on the boards. I don't think my reading comprehension is up to par.


Molly --feeling like Nancy Drew solving a mystery
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SeeFool - I just want to say that I am proud of you for learning a subsequent lesson that is changing your thinking about money. That is not easy, yet so important! I think it's great.

As for the other comments, like "I've noticed that, despite the legions of posters who've come and gone (remember Momolio and the donation scam? or was that the LBYM board?) there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it".

I have to agree with Diana and others and say this is hogwash. I don't have any credit card debt, and never have, but I have my CFA designation and I LBMM, and so I feel I can contribute advice here on ocassion. I try to do so in a constructive manner, and I don't feel that people who respond to me resent me (or at least they haven't been saying so in replies!). People resent others coming across as condescending and smug, which has nothing to do with financial security.

Karen
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hmmm...i think we're looking at a joelcorley / aj phenomenon here. (Fool romance, for newcomers.)

what do you say, folks? all in favor...?


Only if he promises to allow me to spend lots of money on the cat.

Nancy
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Here's the initial thread for Momolio.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15802775

She was last heard from exiting the building.

Mom + grease. The board name should have been enough to tip us off.


I read through the 2 or 3 threads for Momolio. Now, I feel like I have missed the ending to a movie. Who / what proved it was a scam? It seems suspect and some were allways concerned about it not being legit. But, is there another thread where someone confirmed the scam?

Ohhh... You know what I found just as interesting as Momolio... Seattle Pioneer did/does have a softer side.

SoccerDad - has got his pop-corn ready, waiting for a link to a good ending
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Ummmm. Never noticed that myself.


I've been posting here since 1999, and never had any debt or credit problems, since I've always lived frugally.


I've never experienced the kinds of negatives you suggest above.


*Snort* Thanks for the last today. You're gaining a sense of humor. I would have thought you would never post this when in the past you've said:

"The values of frugality, savings and investment are almost deviant in this society, and as many on the Retire Early and LBYM boards will attest, efforts to educate people in such values is frequently met with anger, resentment and hostility."

IF
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what do you say, folks? all in favor...?

SP will never go for it...
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Now, I feel like I have missed the ending to a movie. Who / what proved it was a scam? It seems suspect and some were allways concerned about it not being legit. But, is there another thread where someone confirmed the scam?

She promised to pay back, promised to keep in touch. But from the moment she walked out the door, nothing was ever heard from her again.

I missed a lot of the story, because there was a lot going on in my own life just then, and I didn't even have enough money for the October rent (thanks to Cigna being so D----d incompetent), so I certainly couldn't afford to send checks to other people. But people tried the email address she sent, people tried to keep in touch, and she just vanished.

Nancy
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I have a hell of a lot of respect for many people here who needed those attaboys when they took their first steps toward financial stability - much more so than people who choose to look down on everyone else.

I am relieved to read this. I am getting a budget ready for Sept (not finished yet) and over the last couple of days was apprehensive of what I might let myself in for if I posted it. My first budget did not spark any controversy but maybe that was sheer luck.
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Heck, I have been a Fool since December 29, 1999 and I don't have the guts some of you people have for posting details and asking for help.

Kudos to you Leoline and others!
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I am relieved to read this. I am getting a budget ready for Sept (not finished yet) and over the last couple of days was apprehensive of what I might let myself in for if I posted it. My first budget did not spark any controversy but maybe that was sheer luck.

That was because you were making many cuts as and before people reccommended certain cuts. You had a good attitude and an open mind. You were also not in "immediate danger". I think it gets ugly when someone posts a budget and states "there it is... bare bones... only absolute needs... nothing else to be cut" along with a defiant attitude, a bunch of excuses and a closed mind.

As long as your budget is down under $4k ($1,500 snowball) and you are still open to suggestions to improve it even more then you will be fine. At the point where people post that they can still cut X more out of your budget and they are able to live with a 1/2 or none of some of the things in your budget... you just say "thank you - I will consider it".

Now, if you post a Budget vs. Actual and confess to all the money leaks and what tracking everything has shown you then I think you may be allowed to skip a grade and get more attaboys than tough love.

cheers
SoccerDad
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I think it gets ugly when someone posts a budget and states "there it is... bare bones... only absolute needs... nothing else to be cut" along with a defiant attitude, a bunch of excuses and a closed mind.

And when we look at this 'bare bones' budget we notice $700.00 for dining out, $2,500.00 for vacation, $1,000.00 for gifts, $300.00 for haircuts, $2,000.00 for new clothes. . .

You can almost hear the board rubbing their hands together and cackling.

I still remember the guy with two car payments who went out and bought a third car because "you can't get two child seats in a Toyota."

Nancy
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"But people tried the email address she sent, people tried to keep in touch, and she just vanished."

There's a sucker born every minute.
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But people tried the email address she sent, people tried to keep in touch, and she just vanished.

I read through most of the posts on and by Momolio, and I thought of other reasons she may have disappeared abruptly:

She really started out as desparate as she sounded, then realized she could make some money off people. After she got the money she disappears because she feels badly about it.

She was really desperate, got a tidy sum from some kind strangers, left the untenable situation she was in and started a new life from scratch and left everything and everybody. If she went to a woman's shelter it's likely they would have counseled her to do this.

And lastly, I hate to mention it but I know it happens - she was a victim of domestic violence.

An interesting case; thanks to Nancy and the others for letting me in on it. I hope she wasn't trying to scam people and she did find some peace.

Andrea
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And lastly, I hate to mention it but I know it happens - she was a victim of domestic violence.


********
I wondered about that myself, If what she said was true, maybe she is dead at his hands.

Molly--watches too much City Confidential and Court TV
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Molly--watches too much City Confidential and Court TV

I hear you!

Gosh, I wonder if I am giving any story ideas to what's her name?

Andrea
Feeling a little snitty herself today.
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I've noticed that, despite the legions of posters who've come and gone (remember Momolio and the donation scam? or was that the LBYM board?) there's an innate resentment here against anyone who is financially secure and happy about it. If we don't have horror stories past or prsent to share, our common sense advice is scorned or P-boxed -- unless it's wrapped in smarmy, enabling coddling and attaboys for the slightest evidence of mature self-control.

Well, that's just 'cause we're jealous, insecure, rude prima donnas with our panties in a bunch. :-)

Tra la la!

Though I am kind of laughing at the thought that xraymd or AJ or joelcorley or mlk58 or TamaG being resented, and the thought that xtn coddles anyone. It's funny, how different the perceptions of this board are for different people. I'm pretty sure that SoccerDad and determinedmom and BraveMom would disagree with the smarmy, enabling coddling view of the board, and I'm sure the many people who came for a while and then left because there was no way they were putting up with all the mean, mean people on this mean, mean board wouldn't view it that way. I thought it was pretty funny when SubPrimate thought we were so rude, given how bad, say, LBYM gets, and I think it's pretty funny you think this board coddles people, when it's the same board SubPrimate thought was so rude--just the eyes are different.

Probably everyone is right *and* wrong in their perception of the board. Ah well, I'm just an imaginary internet person anyway, I could be a Fig Newton of your imagination. But I'm not, I'm a Nutter Butter of y'all's imaginations! This mass hallucination brought to you by the letter...P. For pterodactyl, and psychiatrist. And Y, like Wyoming. :-)


--Booa (who really ought to go to bed)
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<<It's an Ignore-a-thon!

Tanaquil

Not saying who I'm Ignoring. I'm a Stealth Ignorer.
>>


Normally, I agree. I usually think it's rude to publicly announce you are going to P-box someone.


But I may just start announcing that I'm P-boxing people who announce they are P-boxing people.



Seattle Pioneer


Personally, I'm P-boxing that DrBooa. She is talking the crazy talk!


--NotBooa (but not NotNotBooa, oh no)
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Ummmm. Never noticed that myself.


I've been posting here since 1999, and never had any debt or credit problems, since I've always lived frugally.


I've never experienced the kinds of negatives you suggest above.

------------------------------------------------------------

*Snort* Thanks for the last today. You're gaining a sense of humor. I would have thought you would never post this when in the past you've said:

"The values of frugality, savings and investment are almost deviant in this society, and as many on the Retire Early and LBYM boards will attest, efforts to educate people in such values is frequently met with anger, resentment and hostility."

IF


Well, I don't see the contradiction. I believe that when SP says "The values of frugality, savings and investment are almost deviant in this society," he is talking about society in general, not society on the boards. This interpretation is supported by the rest of the sentence, "as many on the Retire Early and LBYM boards will attest, efforts to educate people in such values is frequently met with anger, resentment and hostility," implying that people on the Retire Early and LBYM boards attempt to educate people in such values, and that those values are held by those board participants, generally at least if not uniformly.

SP gets a lot of flack on a lot of issues, but not usually about frugality, savings, and investment. People may sometimes disagree with him about the degree to which those values should be applied in a particular case, but I do not think he gets attacked on those underlying beliefs or priorities.


--Booa
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Probably everyone is right *and* wrong in their perception of the board. Ah well, I'm just an imaginary internet person anyway, I could be a Fig Newton of your imagination. But I'm not, I'm a Nutter Butter of y'all's imaginations! This mass hallucination brought to you by the letter...P. For pterodactyl, and psychiatrist. And Y, like Wyoming. :-)


Maybe you should try this contest:


http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

Hoping you realize this is a compliment about your writing and not an insult....


Molly
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In this case I think Momolia had posters donating to her through her daughter's (or her own) paypal account. What I haven't got to is why they donated. Looks like small sums of $10-20 but that can easily add up if you get enough.

I am still tired from traveling so I am mostly catching up on the boards. I don't think my reading comprehension is up to par.


I haven't read this whole thread so apologies if it's already been answered, but there was a fair amount of a) long-time poster peer pressure applied by some specific people and b) lots of hanky wringing by momolio herself. Full disclosure, I myself didn't donate, but a number of people did. It was pretty gross.
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Ohhh... You know what I found just as interesting as Momolio... Seattle Pioneer did/does have a softer side.

SP is a little love bug. Don't let his crusty exterior fool you one bit.
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:-) Thanks, I do take it as a compliment. :-)


--Booa
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Who else is subprimate?

Apparently now GotStocks100, and he's paging YOU to his social board, http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25896587 . Wonder what happened to subprimate? The man is smart, no question about it - he just put up a killer post on Buying or Selling a Home, http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25909888 , where he said things I was trying to say, only better. Too bad he can't keep the same identity for very long.

martybl
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