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No. of Recommendations: 7
The non-partisan primary proposal

1. Candidates run in a single primary race, candidates of all parties run against each other.
2. Top five vote-getters regardless of party run in general election.
3. Voters in each state rank their top two choices.
4. Only #1 rank votes are counted.
5. Candidate who gets >50% of #1 rank votes wins that state's electoral votes.
6. If no one wins in the first round, the lowest vote candidate is dropped out and the second choice of the supporters of that candidate gets added to the remaining candidates' #1 totals.
7. This continues until a candidate gets a majority of the #1 vote.

This emphasizes building a broad coalition over rabid partisanship.

The reason why this could happen is that the folks funding the current political system, the business community, are tiring of partisan political gridlock and warming up to the idea of weakening the two party system. There is already precedent in certain elections in California and Nebraska, where it seems to be popular.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/02/business-lead...
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/what-if...
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1. Candidates run in a single primary race, candidates of all parties run against each other.

With no opposition, Trump is urging his base to vote for the weakest Democratic candidates.

It's a tactic that probably always existed to some extent, but your number #1 does not address the new popularity of this strategy that it could sway subvert the top of the ticket in a national race.
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Democracy, the rule of the people, cannot function as an aggregation of consumerist desires. It has to function as the frame to a culture where the conversations and interactions of people have power and ultimately lead to decisions and leadership choices reflective of those conversations.

The conversations themselves are the crux. And are now almost dead as civil institutions and local media die off.

If elections in isolation as the be all end all, then the body politic has been lobotomized. Elections need to be the ultimate guarantee that the preceding conversations and interactions of the people lead to a result reflecting the considered and reflective minds of the electorate. What we have instead are elections that reflect the hammered by money and falsehoods and ideologies idiocy of masses without community.

And that is why most current discussions of election reform will likely go nowhere useful. This is NOT about coming up with an algorithm to aggregate private desire. It is about recreating civil life as a foundation for communal decisions regarding communal, shared private, problems and possibilities.


David fb
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And that is why most current discussions of election reform will likely go nowhere useful. This is NOT about coming up with an algorithm to aggregate private desire. It is about recreating civil life as a foundation for communal decisions regarding communal, shared private, problems and possibilities.


David fb


I think the days when we used to talk over the fence with our neighbors has past. That was a good thing 100 years ago. Now we hardly know their names.

I have some immigrant Italian friends. She seems to know and interact with most of her neighbors. Too bad we don't all do that more.

CNC>
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Now we hardly know their names.

Sure you do. Just look on the neighborhood Facebook page.

PSU
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me: Now we hardly know their names.

PSU: Sure you do. Just look on the neighborhood Facebook page.

Heh. There is a website called NextDoor.com. I don't know if it is all over or local to here. The Countess has taken to NextDoor like the proverbial duck to water. Goes there every day. There are local sub-groups she enjoys. I don't think she has had much FTF contact as a result.

CNC
... Kinda like TMF
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Heh. There is a website called NextDoor.com. I don't know if it is all over or local to here. The Countess has taken to NextDoor like the proverbial duck to water. Goes there every day. There are local sub-groups she enjoys. I don't think she has had much FTF contact as a result.

I'm on NextDoor. It's like that car accident on the side of the road that everyone needs to look at while driving by.

PSU
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I'm on NextDoor mostly for the lost dog/cat alerts so I can keep an eye out, check under our bushes, etc.
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I'm on NextDoor. It's like that car accident on the side of the road that everyone needs to look at while driving by.

PSU


There are film crews working in one of our local parks.

CNC
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Democracy, the rule of the people, cannot function as an aggregation of consumerist desires. It has to function as the frame to a culture where the conversations and interactions of people have power and ultimately lead to decisions and leadership choices reflective of those conversations.

People are no longer people, from the standpoint of our former democracy. Money is now people. Citizens United (best Orwellian name ever) saw to that. Republican congress is just a collection of special interest puppets. It is probably impossible to unwind this now. Let’s face it, our democracy is dead.
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I think the days when we used to talk over the fence with our neighbors has past.

Again, right wing media and RWNJs like Newt Gingrich have been promoting the idea that democrats/progressives/liberals and a host of other labelled groups are evil, mentally ill, communist, anti-god, ... and not worthy of anything unless they adopt RWNJ values.'

How does one deal with that?
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No. of Recommendations: 16
My community uses Nextdoor Neighbor. The city manager has begun writing surreptitious posts as
"conversation starters" to gauge communtiy feelings on controversial matters without identifying himself as a city manager.

The creators of NN don't want political threads but the RWNJs seem to ignore it, claiming that RWNJ posts are in the best interest of the community.

The RWNJs are being trained to overwhelm all social media so as to exhaust any opposition; gaslighting opposition, and lying lying lying!
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The RWNJs are being trained to overwhelm all social media so as to exhaust any opposition; gaslighting opposition, and lying lying lying!

Why are you so opposed to stimulating employment in the economically-struggling Soviet Union? They’re well trained at their KGB craft, and willing to work hard in the export business.
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YES! The collapse of over the fence neighborly engagement via conversations while weeding in the backyard as well as PTA, church, Rotary Club, quilting bee, bowling league, and weekly poker, etc., is a huge part of what has erased the types of citizen conversations the founders took for granted.

The internet is inherently unable to provine the human to human interactions necessary to build relationships that are both strong and reliable, and so is incapable of providing a foundation for democratic civility. Those same type of key interactions also were the schools where people learned to recognize blow hards, demagogues, frauds, and other vermin who positively thrive within the milieus of reality programming, Limbaugh Donahue fantasy lands, and internet boards (my, how embarrassing!).

However, modern fruitful community engagement is possible and extremely advantageous when the work is done. Look at this stuff:

http://newroots.drizzlehosting.com/openspace.html
http://ncdd.org/rc/best-of-the-best-resources/

I am a long time community organizer and I’ve used many of the techniques listed.

I find this book quite illuminating, although already drifting to obsolescence:

http://ncdd.org/rc/item/2256/


Most of what people think about voting and democracy is obsolete, and even idolatrous.

E.g.,

although secret ballots are useful to prevent coercion and vote buying, they are not necessarily a good thing as they encourage gross hypocrisy and individual irresponsibility. Much of the most powerful elements of democracy, such as the fabled New England Town Meeting governments, depend critically on people identifiably and literally taking a stand for what they think;


as pointed out up thread, simply “majority wins” and top two go to primary show down style voting is often a horrible means of running elections, while all manner of “list voting” methods are superior for usefully aggregating voter intentions and also for eliciting more reasonable campaign platforms and campaigning. Why the hell are we not using them? Because our impoverished educations leave people imagining God herself invented our procedures of democracy, and because the “businesses” of politics have evolved to thrive on the mess we have and keep it locked in place;

and then there are the idiot tropes (basically academic notions that are now locked in place but that were long ago rebutted as to logic, ethics, law....) of

— speech is money and money is speech [HELL NO, speech is a human being talking or writing or possibly enacting through art. PERIOD.]

— corporations, granted pseudo personhood as a useful means of writing laws for their existence and regulation, ought be treated as equivalent of human beings!!!!



Enough for now.


David fb
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The conversations themselves are the crux. And are now almost dead as civil institutions and local media die off.

I think you got the problem right but the cause wrong. The cause is the new industrial revolution that is causing big cities to grow at the expense of small towns. Young people and immigrants move to where the good jobs are, and those are in the big cities and big university communities. The result is that rural counties become older, whiter, poorer, and either more reactionary or more disruptive. That is the Trump demographic.

The conversations you want happen all the time in the cities, which is probably why in my experience mayors tend to be moderate pragmatists who are more focused on solving problems than scoring ideological points. To get elected as a mayor, one has to form coalitions with a variety of groups. Not so much in gerrymander congressional districts or rural-dominated states.

It is difficult to change that demographic shift (from rural to city), it just has to play out. What we can do is change the primary system so that cities get more input into the nominees. Not starting with Iowa and New Hampshire would be a big start. Start with someplace like Illinois or Ohio, a mix of urban and rural with a decent proportion of minorities.
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My community uses Nextdoor Neighbor.

My community uses NN too. But it's pretty good -- no RWNJs or political posts. Just helpful neighborhood and community stuff. The only "social activist" posts were involved with a petition against overbuilding in our small town. The City Council then came out with a moratorium on building more apartment complexes ... and now we're back to talk about where to find lawn care people, babysitters, etc. and posts looking for the actual owners of a lost dog that has been found ...

culcha
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