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I think I heard someone say on Morning Joe that Steve Kornacki has said "Now, we know who to cast both our votes for."

NYT should be embarrassed.


Ken
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Not helping.

Ken
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I think I heard someone say on Morning Joe that Steve Kornacki has said "Now, we know who to cast both our votes for."

NYT should be embarrassed.


Ken
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Theres attributes I like about both.

But....

AmyK has been my dark horse pick/hope for many moons now despite the nation being too angry and too stupid to nominate or even maybe elect someone like her.

AmyK - has PROVEN to be able to win in places and with voters that Democrats could have used in 2016.

Not to mention - if one wins - it's about governance. And IMO, incrementalism and positive baby steps are soo much easier to sell, and get passed versus pie in the sky platitudes that excite perhaps 20% of the country.

I think she's decent and competent and electable - *IF* her party would put all their "UKRAINE!" energy into respectfully and without condescension, talking about ACA, infrastructure, and income to flyover America.

JediG
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Poor Ken is waiting for primary and caucus night so he can sign on with the winner each night.

I still remember 2008. One night Ken loves Obama, the next night Hillary.

LOL

C'mon let em have a few primaries.

Think for yourself.

Then - once there's 2 left - I agree - get behind one and don't look back.

JediG
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<<I think she's decent and competent and electable - *IF* her party would put all their "UKRAINE!" energy into respectfully and without condescension, talking about ACA, infrastructure, and income to flyover America.

JediG>>



IF they would do that kind of thing, they would be an electoral threat to Trump. But they are LIBERALS, so of course they will not.

You MUST put your hate of Trump first, last and all the time. It's the only real liberal issue!

Thus do liberals attack Trump and his supporters at their strongest point.



Seattle Pioneer
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I'm convinced the NYT wants trump to be elected again, just as they did in 2016.

It amuses me when MAGAs scream about the "lib" NYT because it did more to normalize trump and get him elected than Fox News did. NYT has been covering the cretin for 30+ years and knew just how sleazy, incompetent and void his is -- and what a hack of a business person he is -- and basically chose to wipe the slate clean and cover him like a normal politician.

Their endorsement, after the past four years of lopsided coverage and mindless stenography, is meaningless.
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... the "lib" NYT because it did more to normalize trump and get him elected than Fox News did.

I agree with this assessment.

...chose to wipe the slate clean and cover him like a normal politician.

No. If they had covered him like a politician, they would have included the news that his statements were lies by providing facts in the stories. Instead, they simply published his lies in headlines, then quoted other politicians statements - some Trump culters agreeing with Trump's lies while others pointing out that he was lying. They let readers decide, but without investigative reporting. They treated him like a reality TV star who was not saying anything of consequence so did not require analysis.
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True.
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What about my other assessment of Lizzy?

Someone deleted your post that accused me about lying about Lizzy.

I don’t know why someone would delete it. We’re you sent an email with a reason?

More importantly can you tell me where I told an untruth?
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"I'm convinced the NYT wants trump to be elected again, just as they did in 2016. "

He's been great for their business!!
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"I think she's decent and competent and electable..."

Politic share some things in common with football. College and Pro are not the same thing. Any number of folk who are successful at the college level don't make it in the pros. Again, the largest organization most presidential candidates have ever managed is their own campaigns. By skill or by chance, Obama picked an excellent team. By skill or by chance Bernie has an excellent team. By skill or by chance, with plenty of name recognition running in a neighboring state, Klobuchar has managed to go nowhere in Iowa. Popular gossip has it she is a terrible person to work for; that may be part of the problem. Winning teams find a way to win against the odds, losers find a way to lose with the odds in their favor. If Klobuchar was going to win at the national level she would be doing better in Iowa now.

V.
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I agree- those full of the academic and corporate and research bubbles - don't know much about reality.

No further comment....

JediG
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Glad to see that. Although I'm probably more liberal than Amy Klobuchar, she is my preferred candidate.

Wessex
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What about my other assessment of Lizzy?
Someone deleted your post that accused me about lying about Lizzy.
I don’t know why someone would delete it. We’re you sent an email with a reason?
More importantly can you tell me where I told an untruth?


I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you might be thinking of someone else.
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"... AlthoughI'm probably more liberal than Amy Klobuchar, she is my preferred candidate."

I am less liberal than Bernie Sanders but he is my preferred candidate because we always wind up with much lee than we are seeking. It seems to me that essentially seeking zero change we are likely to be quagmired in a Trumpist government indefinitely. Universal healthcare is a "Pipe dream" which means that instead of negotiating for universal healthcare, we negotiate for how much of Obamacare the Republicans get to destroy. Klobuchar's messaging is like eating a sht sandwich. She wants to negotiate how much sht is in the sandwich rather than just taking the sht out. This is what Sen Klobuchar has spent her time in the senate doing in recent years: None of her "Get it done" accomplishments were particularly consequential, nor were her failures even if they had made it out of committee; read through them yourself.

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/K000367/bi...
Sen. Klobuchar sponsored has sponsored 79 bills in the 116th Congress (2019-20), Zero are new law,
92 bills in the 115th Congress (2017-18) 2 became law:
S.96: Improving Rural Call Quality and Reliability Act of 2017
S.1536: Combating Human Trafficking in Commercial Vehicles Act
68 bills in the 114th Congress (2015-16), 2 became law
S.2974: A bill to ensure funding for the National Human Trafficking Hotline, and for other purposes.
S.179: A bill to designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 14 3rd Avenue, NW, in Chisholm, Minnesota, as the "James L. Oberstar Memorial Post Office Building".
78 bills in the 113th Congress (2013-14), 1 became law
S.1614: Accuracy for Adoptees Act

To me, she gets support from republicans because she never does anything any republican would object to.

V.
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Nessie pulls a Lizzy:

“I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you might be thinking of someone else.“



https://boards.fool.com/you-seem-obsessed-with-elizabeth-war...

Lie Nessie.
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No. of Recommendations: 12
Vetiver: To me, she gets support from republicans because she never does anything any republican would object to.

First, why are you cherry-picking your years?

Klobuchar has had 33 bills enacted in Congress compared to 7 for Sanders. Klobuchar's have dealt with everything from women’s entrepreneurship to water- and wildlife-restoration acts to drug-disposal measures. Two of Sanders bills were to name a Post Office and one was to declare March 4, 1991 "Vermont Bicentennial Day".

Two more of Sanders bills were related to veterans... you know, not "anything any republican would object to". His other two bills that became law were "Granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact" in 1996 and “Taconic Mountains Protection Act of 1991”.

1996 and 1991.

In the 115th Congress, Klobuchar co-sponsored 591 bills. Sanders 316. Co-sponsorship is a reliable way to measure how well legislatures work with other legislators to advance policy goals.

Klobuchar had 7% of the bills she introduced become law during the 115th Congress. Sanders, zero percent.

Sanders does have the worst track record among candidates for “missed votes,” at 6.4% of all votes.

https://qz.com/1560188/what-the-2020-democratic-candidates-d...

Klobuchar's bills include:

S. 3021 (115th): America’s Water Infrastructure Act of 2018
S. 182: Court-Appointed Guardian Accountability and Senior Protection Act
S. 2949 (114th): Great Lakes Fish and Wildlife Restoration Act of 2016
S. 2655 (113th): EARLY Act Reauthorization of 2014
S. 1636 (112th): Federal Courts Jurisdiction and Venue Clarification Act of 2011
S. 3397 (111th): Secure and Responsible Drug Disposal Act of 2010

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=412242...
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"First, why are you cherry-picking your years?"

I used the years that were available from the source I cited.

Generally, as to laws enacted, Nancy Pelosi has been a ball of fire getting legislation through the House, but all of those bills generally pile up on the senate doorstep with no action. The ones that do get through are the naming of post offices and such; so no one is looking particularly good on that aspect. However, if you recall what were the mainstream democratic positions 4 years ago and what they are now, the changes have fundamentally resulted from the Sanders campaign of 2016: tuition-free college, $15/hour minimum wage, Medicare for all (which Klobuchar calls a pipe dream)...

V.
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Vetiver: However, if you recall what were the mainstream democratic positions 4 years ago and what they are now, the changes have fundamentally resulted from the Sanders campaign of 2016: tuition-free college, $15/hour minimum wage, Medicare for all (which Klobuchar calls a pipe dream)...

Tuition-free college and M4A are not 'mainstream' democratic positions.
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"Tuition-free college and M4A are not 'mainstream' democratic positions."

HRC, at one point, said you can not be a democrat and not support universal healthcare. Then as a candidate in early 2015 she stopped supporting it. then faced with Sander's popularity she started supporting it again. Also, 4 of the democratic senators that were running for president were co-sponsors of Bernie's Medicare-For-all-Bill, then they stopped supporting it https://www.businessinsider.com/2020-democrats-cosponsored-s... But 70% of Americans, and probably a higher number of democrats support medicare for all https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-m... and free college. So among politicians, especially those on the corporate payroll, tuition-free college and Medicare for all depends on which way the wind is blowing because they are not really prepared to fight for what the American people, particularly democrats, want.

V.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Politic share some things in common with football. College and Pro are not the same thing. Any number of folk who are successful at the college level don't make it in the pros. Again, the largest organization most presidential candidates have ever managed is their own campaigns. By skill or by chance, Obama picked an excellent team. By skill or by chance Bernie has an excellent team. By skill or by chance, with plenty of name recognition running in a neighboring state, Klobuchar has managed to go nowhere in Iowa. Popular gossip has it she is a terrible person to work for; that may be part of the problem. Winning teams find a way to win against the odds, losers find a way to lose with the odds in their favor. If Klobuchar was going to win at the national level she would be doing better in Iowa now.

V.

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I will bet you a dinner of your choice that Biden will be the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

Biden isn't great, but he is the ONLY Democratic candidate with a chance against Trump.

Bean
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Politic share some things in common with football. College and Pro are not the same thing. Any number of folk who are successful at the college level don't make it in the pros. Again, the largest organization most presidential candidates have ever managed is their own campaigns. By skill or by chance, Obama picked an excellent team. By skill or by chance Bernie has an excellent team. By skill or by chance, with plenty of name recognition running in a neighboring state, Klobuchar has managed to go nowhere in Iowa. Popular gossip has it she is a terrible person to work for; that may be part of the problem. Winning teams find a way to win against the odds, losers find a way to lose with the odds in their favor. If Klobuchar was going to win at the national level she would be doing better in Iowa now.

V.

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Klobuchar has a better chance then Warren.

Biden has a better chance then Klobuchar.

Bean
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"Tuition-free college and M4A are not 'mainstream' democratic positions."

HRC, at one point, said you can not be a democrat and not support universal healthcare. Then as a candidate in early 2015 she stopped supporting it. then faced with Sander's popularity she started supporting it again. Also, 4 of the democratic senators that were running for president were co-sponsors of Bernie's Medicare-For-all-Bill, then they stopped supporting it https://www.businessinsider.com/2020-democrats-cosponsored-s...... But 70% of Americans, and probably a higher number of democrats support medicare for all https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-m...... and free college. So among politicians, especially those on the corporate payroll, tuition-free college and Medicare for all depends on which way the wind is blowing because they are not really prepared to fight for what the American people, particularly democrats, want.

V.

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Tuition-free college? Maybe.

Universal Healthcare? Not in America in 2020

Bean
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