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I think it was Stalin who said...

"The power is not with those who vote,

The power is with those who count the votes."

Hence the progressive's plan for the upcoming election.
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How long have people been mailing in their votes?

Why do people who never saw it as a problem before see it as a problem now?

What data (not anecdotes, data) is there to back this up?


TMFEdyboom223
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No. of Recommendations: 6
"How long have people been mailing in their votes?"

Some people have done mass mail in voting for some time, many people have never done mass mail in voting

"Why do people who never saw it as a problem before see it as a problem now?"

Who says that people never saw it as a problem before? Many see it as a problem because in states that have never done it before can not realistically be expected to set up a secure and timely procedure for accounting and counting the votes in the 70 days prior to this election.
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How long have people been mailing in their votes?

People who have gone through a process to formally request an absentee ballot have been mailing in their votes for a long time.

People in states that have carefully thought out a universal-mail-in process with at least as good protection against voter fraud as their old in-person process have been mailing in their votes for a few years.

That hardly justifies taking the leaky, fraud-vulnerable in-person process and replacing one of the few anti-fraud measures in it with a universal-mail-in ballot with no fraud protection.

Particularly when the claimed reason for doing so is fraudulent. The data on disease spread while standing in line at store cash registers, etc., does not support a claim that in-person voting poses a significant health hazard.
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How long have people been mailing in their votes? Why do people who never saw it as a problem before see it as a problem now? What data (not anecdotes, data) is there to back this up? TMFEdyboom223

Simple...

• Before, you had a few hundred absentee ballots which is no problem.

• Now you are looking at millions of ballots and this, according to the USPS is a major problem.

• That is why the "USPS warned 46 states that it can't guarantee that all mail-in-ballots would arrive on time to be counted." https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-warned-states-mail-ball...

• Finally, if you can go to Walmart wearing a mask, then you can also go vote, wearing a mask! There is no valid reason to vote by mail.


-=Ajax=-
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Simple...

• Before, you had a few hundred absentee ballots which is no problem.

• Now you are looking at millions of ballots and this, according to the USPS is a major problem.

• That is why the "USPS warned 46 states that it can't guarantee that all mail-in-ballots would arrive on time to be counted." https://www.businessinsider.com/usps-warned-states-mail-ball......


------------------

USPS capacity is not the real problem with mail-n voting. Even if the USPS faithfully delivered every mail-in ballot instantaneously, the biggest problem is still present.

No one at the board of elections has any way of knowing in any reasonable amount of time that

1) The person casting the ballot has a right to vote in that precinct.

2) The person casting the ballot has a right to vote at all.

3) The person casting the ballot has not also voted in person.

4) the person signing the ballot was in fact the person appearing on the voter registration roll.

It is common knowledge that voter registration rolls contain a high number of voters who have died or moved from that address. Just mailing one out to every person on the rolls, puts tens of thousands of official ballots into circulation. So you go to get the mail and find that here is your ballot. But also here is the ballot for the person who has the apartment before you and the one before him. Do you throw out the two extra ballots that aren't you or is there a "better" use available to you?

When you vote in person and show an ID to do so, then all those extra names still on the voter registration rolls, don't make a difference.

Lastly, there is a difference between absentee voting and mail-in voting that is seldom explained to the low information voters.
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Hmm,

I asked if anyone has any data to prove that mail in voting doesn't work. Nobody was able to provide a single source of data.

Let's look at this another way.

When do people receive their voting forms in the mail, and when are they due back?

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-t...

It varies by state, but they are mailed out from 18 to 60 days before the election.

I'll try myself out. Ohio, where I live, mails them out 29 days before the election. I might receive it 25 days before the election. It'd go back in the mail 24 days before the election. They'd receive it 20 days before the election. They would have 20 days to put it in a machine (presumably) to be counted.

Call me crazy, but I have enough faith in the government to process my vote within 20 days.

There's a problem with the post office?

Let's consider Christmas.

"Christmas cards are the most popular type of seasonal card, with approximately 1.6 billion cards sold each year."

https://link.usps.com/about_the_business/seasons-greetings/#....

In 2018, there were just over 153M registered voters.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registe...

If EVERYBODY voted by mail, that would create about 10.5% of the mail increase of Christmas cards. What's the worst case scenario during the holiday season? Mail might arrive 2 days later than normal? Well, the impact here is 10.5% of that impact. Let's be generous and say that the mail might arrive 1 day later than usual.

I said previously that the government would have 20 days to process my vote after mailing. Well, if it took me 1 extra day to receive the form, and it took them one extra day to receive the form, then they'd still have 18 days to process it.

If the government can't process a simple form with within 18 days, it's pathetic. Trump was complaining of the voting process when he was last elected. If he was president the last 3.5 years and did nothing to fix the process to allow them to process my form within 18 days, I guess he's pathetic too.


TMFEdyboom223
Who still thinks the whole discussion is ridiculous anyway. If I can file my govt taxes online and pay my govt taxes online, the govt could surely find a secure way for me to vote online too. It's almost as if they prioritize receiving money over voting.
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I asked if anyone has any data to prove that mail in voting doesn't work. Nobody was able to provide a single source of data.

• Feigning ignorance is not an argument.

• We are not voting by mail. And this is not debatable.

• If you can go to Walmart wearing a mask, then you can also go vote, wearing a mask!

• If you don't like it, don't vote.

Have a nice day.


-=Ajax=-
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How long have people been mailing in their votes?

If you don't know the difference between absentee voting and mass unsolicited distribution of ballots to everyone and the verification processes involved then you are naive or a political hack.
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If you don't know the difference between absentee voting and mass unsolicited distribution of ballots to everyone and the verification processes involved then you are naive or a political hack.



I'm unaware of anyone calling for "mass unsolicited distribution of ballots to everyone".
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I'm unaware of anyone calling for "mass unsolicited distribution of ballots to everyone". - feedme

---------------

"Everyone" in the voter registration database, even if its 120% of the population.
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I'm unaware of anyone calling for "mass unsolicited distribution of ballots to everyone". - feedme

---------------

"Everyone" in the voter registration database, even if its 120% of the population.



As albaby patiently explained, duplicates are weeded out via computer crosschecking.
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>> "Everyone" in the voter registration database, even if its 120% of the population.<<


As albaby patiently explained, duplicates are weeded out via computer crosschecking. - Feedme


-----------------

Albaby explained how duplicate voting by one legal voter (mail-in and in person) might be weeded out.

A separate and bigger problem now under discussion is how to avoid mailing out invalid ballots to every entry in the registration database. Let's use an example.

Sam Smith buys a home at 123 Main St. and registers himself to vote using that address. He votes for years using that address.

Scenario 1 - He sells his home to Jane Jones and Sam moves out of state. Jane then registers to vote and gives her address as 123 Main St.

Scenario 2 - Sam and his girlfriend Jane Jones decide to live together. After settling in, Jane registers herself to vote giving her new 123 Main street address.

So in either scenario the database contains two entries for 123 Main Street. How does the computer decide to send or not send a ballot in Sam's name to 123 Main St?
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I asked if anyone has any data to prove that mail in voting doesn't work. Nobody was able to provide a single source of data.

There IS no data on what happens when a state decides to do universal vote by mail, only two and a half months before the first election where it will take effect, with no preparation before then.

However, there's plenty of evidence from many other projects that any state being able to do all the necessary preparation *that quickly* is improbable.

Even the USPS is apparently saying that THEIR being ready to take the load is improbable. And they can pass down orders from the federal level all the way down to your local post office and enforce them through administrative processes. States can't do that to counties.
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Sam Smith buys a home at 123 Main St. and registers himself to vote using that address. He votes for years using that address.

Scenario 1 - He sells his home to Jane Jones and Sam moves out of state. Jane then registers to vote and gives her address as 123 Main St.

Scenario 2 - Sam and his girlfriend Jane Jones decide to live together. After settling in, Jane registers herself to vote giving her new 123 Main street address.

So in either scenario the database contains two entries for 123 Main Street. How does the computer decide to send or not send a ballot in Sam's name to 123 Main St?


Colorado checks the National Change of Address Database maintained by the USPS, DMV records, Social Security records, and the Electronic Registration Information Center, an organization managed by a group of states to share information. If Sam forwards his mail, re-registers his car, changes the address on his drivers license, changes the address to send his Social Security check, or if he dies and his death is reported to any of these organizations, Colorado knows not to send a ballot for Sam to 123 Main St.

Every voter in Colorado has a signature on record. Every ballot must be signed. Every signature is compared with the one on record by a group of Democratic and Republican election judges.

For fraud to occur, Sam's move has to escape notice. Then Jane has to decide to commit a felony and send in Sam's ballot. How many people are willing to commit a felony to cast one vote? One vote almost never changes an election. Then Jane has to forge Sam's ballot. Unless she's a practiced forger with an example of Sam's signature, the signatures won't match, the ballot won't be counted, and Jane will face a felony investigation. The likelihood of all that happening is miniscule.

Growing up in Chicago where election fraud was common, I am convinced main-in balloting is much more secure.
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Growing up in Chicago where election fraud was common, I am convinced main-in balloting is much more secure.

Done well, I am inclined to agree.

Duct-taped on in a slapdash manner at the last minute, not so much.
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<So in either scenario the database contains two entries for 123 Main Street. How does the computer decide to send or not send a ballot in Sam's name to 123 Main St?>


Your case is actually simpler than many other real world ones.

What about an apartment complex of say 100 units with a modest 25% turnover rate. In 10 years using two registered voters per apartment, you would have at least 8 names on the rolls per apartment. That would be 800 ballots mailed to one complex. If one goes back further, the number will be significantly higher. Same if the turnover ratio is more than 25%.

So does the legally registered voter decide to compound his vote by using the 10 extra ballots stuffed into his or her mailbox? Filling out the extra ballots when there is no firm system in place to verify who is a legal voter is an open invitation to fraud.

People have mentioned that systems can detect these type of things. That is true. But those systems are not in place. It is nothing like the absentee ballot system that has long been in place, but designed for very small numbers of voters.

I voted in the NJ primary. I have no way of knowing if my vote was actually counted. I figure it was a 50/50 proposition since incompetency is the norm when it comes to anything run by a government entity. Was it delivered? Did the right person open it? Did it get recorded or was it disallowed on someones whim? Two weeks ago, I sent out a letter by certified mail. It was a time sensitive document. It has still not been delivered. I called the USPS. It is incredibly difficult to reach an actual human being. They have "launched an investigation". The piece of mail was to be delivered less than one mile from the post office. The person told me it is not so simple. It was sent to a sorting facility about 20 miles away. Then it goes to a second facility before coming back to my town to be delivered. Anyone who says they have full confidence in the process is drinking the proverbial Kool Aid.

When I vote in person, I have an established trust in the process. There are people there checking on the voting machines all day long. Counts are verified by poll workers. If one is interested, they can usually access the results by district. I have not seen the primary results on a total basis let alone on a district wide one.

In a nutshell, I have zero trust in the all mail in process. It is way too ripe for fraud and abuse.


Besides all of that, I see no reason at all why people cannot vote in person in the first place. One can wear their mask and gloves if they want while they wait to vote. We have gone through the process in doing our grocery shopping. The people working the front lines there have been working safely on a daily basis. I still thank them every time I go there. I myself have worked my part time retail job all through this pandemic. One simply needs to take proper precautions after accessing the risks. Those who are saying it is way too dangerous to vote are just talking out someplace other than their mouths. It is a common practice for those of them who hold a public office.



BG
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I asked if anyone has any data to prove that mail in voting doesn't work. Nobody was able to provide a single source of data.


No problem:

Louisiana voters claim they did not receive mail-in ballots they requested; LDP planning legal action

https://www.wafb.com/2020/07/13/thousands-louisiana-voters-d...
**************
Arizona Voter Fraud Upends Case for Mail-In Elections

According to the bipartisan commission on federal election reform, chaired by former President Jimmy Carter, the findings concluded that absentee ballots remain “the largest source of potential voter fraud” in the electoral process. The New York Times reported in 2012 that there was bipartisan consensus that votes cast by mail are “less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than votes cast in a voting booth.”

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/arizona-voter-fraud-upen...
**************
Mail-In Ballots Make Voter Fraud Easy. I Know Because I Did It.

https://www.insidesources.com/mail-in-ballots-make-voter-fra...
*************

BTW, that was a couple seconds of searching in between putting up new ceiling tiles. I'm sure if you actually looked, you would find lots more.

Kathleen
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Oops...I meant to add this one as well:

Four People Charged with Mail-In Election Fraud as Dems Continue To Push Vote-by-Mail

https://www.westernjournal.com/four-people-charged-mail-elec...



HTH,
Kathleen
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Sorry, I forgot to add this one too:

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/24/28_mil...!



Kathleen
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But wait! There's more:


New Jersey Voter Fraud: Residents Complain Someone Already Used Their “Mail In” Ballot


https://conservativedailypost.com/new-jersey-voter-fraud-res...


BTW, that one is also going on in Georgia.

Kathleen
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This one too:

1 in 5 Ballots Rejected as Fraud Is Charged in N.J. Mail-In Election
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5...


Wow, it's really surprising that you could not find any data to prove mail-in voting fraud.

Kathleen
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And yet another:

15 Election Results That Were Thrown Out Because of Fraudulent Mail-In Ballots

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/04/21/15-election-results-t...



Kathleen
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No. of Recommendations: 1

Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

And yet another:

15 Election Results That Were Thrown Out Because of Fraudulent Mail-In Ballots

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/04/21/15-election-results-t......


Kathleen


----------------

Ya' know, those ceiling tiles aren't going install themselves....
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Ya' know, those ceiling tiles aren't going install themselves....


Eh, we decided we're going to pay someone. Nobody in the house is willing to take down the 40 year old tile ceiling. We're all afraid of what may be up there.

Kathleen
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...We're all afraid of what may be up there....

Good thinking. A thick cloud of micro-dust is probably awaiting. Cover shelfs and cabinets furniture with plastic.
Since it is nearing halloween, i could scare you by suggesting maybe some asbestos insulation and lead paint has been used in the past. Of course, i know nothing about your house's history, etc. :^)
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