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If you want a good laugh read the argument on the METaR board about a Poll concerning future electricity sources. A poster, who goes by t, has come up with some of the funniest reasons against solar power and has repeatedly use them in the past against solar panels, solar powerplants, EV's and so on.

You'll be shaking your head in disbelief.
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"A poster, who goes by t, has come up with some of the funniest reasons against solar power and has repeatedly use them in the past against solar panels, solar powerplants,"

Solar power plants are great to a certain point.

If EVERYONE had solar panels on their roofs, there wouldn't be any need for any grid solar installations or companies spending billions to put in solar panels. Every house hold need would be met with solar. That is, until very cloudy snowy days over multiple states where power generation fell to near zero. then what?

Oh, and all those home solar panels produce ZERO power at night. So until you have the ability to store GIGWATT HOURS of electricity from solar, enough for a week of stormy weather with no sun, you got a problem. Especially if the winds die down. Then what?

Oh, right - every home owner, after spending $20,000 on solar panels, now has to spend another $20,000 on batteries to power his/her house at night.

Now....if everyone put solar on their houses, the power companies would probably pay them zero for the power they produce, since Gigawatts of grid solar was available and there was no one to take all the solar power. No market for it - during the day. You'd get nothing for power produced above what your house needed.

Every utility is scrambling to build (and get the tax credits) for Gigawatts and gigawatts of solar power. At the rate it is going in, there won't be a need or market for home solar.

You'd be a lot better super insulating your house, putting in triple pane windows, better doors, even more insulation in attics....then spending it on solar panels for your roof.

t
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Hey telegraph. You still around?

How's Hubbert peak theory treating you?

Still debating the economics of ethanol in gasoline?
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t,

Do you actually know anyone that has home solar panels?

I do, as there are two new homes with panels in our neighborhood where we get snow and hail during the winter plus shorter daylight hours. Both homes have energy storage units from Samsung which give enough backup power to last two days and were cheaper than Tesla's units.

Also even on rainy days there is still enough filtered sunlight to generate some power and in full sun there is enough to keep the storage charged and to sell power back to the electric utility company.

So, with the energy savings, rebates, and excess power sales they will pay for themselves in 5 years.

Ka-ching

OTFoolish
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"How's Hubbert peak theory treating you?

Still debating the economics of ethanol in gasoline?"

--

THe USA peaked in 1971, and led to the oil shortages of the late 70s - when you couldn't even get gas at half the stations, we had odd/even rationing, and 8 gal limit on how much gas you could buy. I remember that.

Innovation in getting more out of wells, fracking, brought more on line as did deep ocean wells, but as you know, the oil companies are cutting back on exploration big time. It won't be long before you see oil hitting $100/bbl.

- ---

As to ethanol economics, it's a net energy loser but funds the agri-business with billions of dollars of $$$$. There is so much ethanol around they can't get rid of it all. You seen any adds for 'flex fuel' cars lately? Nope. See any E85 pumps any more? Nope - only in KS and a few other states will you even see one of them.

For every 1/10 of a tank of 'fuel' you get with ethanol in it, your fuel mileage goes down 10%. Buy 11 gallons of ethanol contaminated gas, and get the exactly the same miles as you would on 10 gallons of 100% real gas. You can buy real gas at marinas and all over OK. A few places in TX including Buc-Es.

Still around. Watching NG prices and oil prices. Europe is having fun wondering if Germany will cave on letting Russia take over the Ukraine instead of freezing to death this winter if Russia cuts off the NG supply. Interesting times.

t.
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"Also even on rainy days there is still enough filtered sunlight to generate some power and in full sun there is enough to keep the storage charged and to sell power back to the electric utility company.

So, with the energy savings, rebates, and excess power sales they will pay for themselves in 5 years."

I really really doubt 5 year payback. In a few years, there will be so much solar and wind that utilities will pay zero for any power you generate and want to sell to them during the day.
They'll use their own solar farms first. there will be too much supply and not enough demand.

Between the panels and batteries those folks are probably into 30K plus. My electric bill runs $1500to $2000/yr. No way they'd pay back in five years.

t.
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Sounds like you bought heavily when oil prices hit their lows. Was maybe the opportunity of a lifetime to buy oil stocks.

Replacing oil is possible if we are willing to pay the price. But best efforts seem far below what is needed if we want it done during our lifetimes.
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In NH where they as paying 15.8 cents/Kwh electric bill's can run $500 to $1000 a month for an average home with electric heat and central air.

So, at $5000 to $12,000 a year 5yrs is entirely reasonable.

OTFoolish
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At a $100 a barrel and with the attending gas prices going through the roof the move to solar panels, biodiesel, wind power, EV's and so on will occur that much faster.

Also Winnebago has announced that they will be featuring an all electric RV at the next RV show in Florida.

The times they are a chang'n...

OTFoolish
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"In NH where they as paying 15.8 cents/Kwh electric bill's can run $500 to $1000 a month for an average home with electric heat and central air.

So, at $5000 to $12,000 a year 5yrs is entirely reasonable."

Yeah, with 3 hours of sun a day in December and January, that won't make much difference, will it? And tons of cloudy days in winter, with snow and ice and dreary winters.

And as everyone adds solar, in the summer time, the power company probably won't even take your power - pay you zero for energy it doesn't need because there is so much supply and not enough demand. The power company will put in it's own solar panels and use them first. And their owned wind power.

Not a whole lot of a/c needs in NH most of summer. (what, summers last from July4 to Labor Day if you're lucky in most of NH. Snow starts in October. Same in upstate NY....been there, done that.

Smart folks in NH use gas or oil heating. The rural folks burn wood by the cord. So far, the government doesn't tax it.

t.
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Summer in NH starts in June just like most of the country as the capital city of Concord will have temperatures in the 80's and 90's.
Also a HUGE issue is humidity as much of the state is covered by what they consider a Temperate Rainfall Forest because of the annual rainfall.

Burning wood is a pain in the butt as the storage issues, chimney maintain and ash disposal are a constant chore. Also the price of a cord of wood is tied into the price of a gallon of oil and the towns do TAX the wood harvesters by the stump the size of the area cut.

Finally we had 90 degree days into the beginning of October in the southern part of the state and had our warmest December on record.

OTFoolish
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So, with the energy savings, rebates, and excess power sales they will pay for themselves in 5 years

And then you woke up...

BruceM
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Last electric bill shows an increase to $.17/Kwh and to supply power for weekend use to a small 1100sqft ski cabin, for the not yet completed month of January, = $427.

For the electric company it seems like the skies the limit for rate increases.

OTFoolish
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t: Solar power plants are great to a certain point.

===========================================================

Light bulbs are great to a certain point.

Texas is busy building more solar farms because they finally woke to the fact that having lots of cheap solar is better than burning millions of tons of coal and gas.

Jaak
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