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Fools,

We are going to be changing the directory structure for the discussion
boards in the not-too-distant future in order to make it easier for
people to find discussions, as well as to allow us to better spotlight
our boards.

Below is a draft of what we're thinking of doing. The left column is
the name of the board and the right column is the title of the general
category in which we'd place the board. We welcome your feedback for
ways to improve this before we implement.

A few notes before you offer thoughts:

- this is a draft, one we're moderately pleased with, but a draft
nonetheless

- we are not currently technically capable of putting one board in two
different folders - ie. Intel cannot live both in Stocks I and in a
Semiconductor folder for industry

- Speaker's Corner is not included here as we're trying to do a better
job of categorizing. Many fall into "Social Clubs"

- if your board isn't in here for some reason, or grossly mislabeled,
please don't be upset. There will be more than enough opportunity to
put things into the proper place, both before and after we do this.

- as a general rule, if we couldn't decide where Speaker's board
belonged, we kept it in Social Clubs

- some of the Speaker's boards might look appropriate in other
groupings, though the actual content of the board dictated otherwise

Thanks for any insights you can offer.

Best,

Bogey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great Movies                              Arts, Travel & Entertainment
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Audio                                     Arts, Travel & Entertainment
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Sirius Black's Muggle Friends             Arts, Travel & Entertainment
The Matrix                                Arts, Travel & Entertainment
M*A*S*H - Home of the 4077th              Arts, Travel & Entertainment
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para su seguridad                         Social Clubs
FoolTools Fanclub                         Social Clubs
Contretemps                               Social Clubs
The Eternal Anarchy                       Social Clubs
The Anti-Establishment                    Social Clubs
Peace and Boat Drinks                     Social Clubs
A Fool named fedja                        Social Clubs
Greedy Capitalist Pigs for Hire           Social Clubs
Valentines                                Social Clubs
Foolumni & Friends                        Social Clubs
Attention Earthling                       Social Clubs
Bash The Fool Censors                     Social Clubs
Rex Addicts Support Group                 Social Clubs
Bong Resin                                Social Clubs
Oh Yeah, Well My                          Social Clubs
A View From The Sticks                    Social Clubs
Fools under 20                            Social Clubs
The Sausage Factory                       Social Clubs
Risky Women                               Social Clubs
Fallout Shelter                           Social Clubs
Just "Hi"                                 Social Clubs
Dogs of War                               Social Clubs
Sand Dancers                              Social Clubs
Harley Fools                              Social Clubs
4200 WOW                                  Social Clubs
The Bacon Organization, Inc.              Social Clubs
Broker This!                              Social Clubs
WIM(Women of Independent Means)           Social Clubs
Latin MST                                 Social Clubs
Black Investors                           Social Clubs
The G Club                                Social Clubs
amigos eight                              Social Clubs
Work at Home                              Social Clubs
Making it to the Top                      Social Clubs
Stock Review                              Social Clubs
Red Hot Ladies of Bonita Bay              Social Clubs
The Social Door                           Social Clubs
77's Foolish House of Pigskin             Sports
Major League Baseball                     Sports
Hockey Fans Board                         Sports
Foolish Golf Tips                         Sports
College Hoops                             Sports
Gimme My Sports                           Sports
Wrestling Talk                            Sports
NBA Discussions                           Sports
Football/Soccer Discussions               Sports
UNC Tar Heel Fan Club                     Sports
NASCAR                                    Sports
Fantasy Hockey Faceoff                    Sports
SLSL Members Only                         Sports
715's All Sports                          Sports
Boilermaker Club                          Sports
Tennis Fools                              Sports
Horse Racing                              Sports
Minnesota Twins Fans                      Sports
Guns for Sport & Protection               Sports
Alabama , Univ Of - Sports                Sports
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Oh yeah, please restrict your comments to serious suggestions and ideas. This is a difficult enough process without making it more difficult with off-topic stuff.

Thank you.

Bogey
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David - I think that "L'Union Fait Le Force" think of themselves as an investment club - or they did the last time I hung out there. As well - I didn't see "Improve the Fool" - is it not moving, or did I just miss it?

Will this have any impact on existing links, favourites listings, etc, and what change will be visible to users?

Dean
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Oh yeah, please restrict your comments to serious suggestions and ideas.

I don't use the folders at all, so moving boards around from one folder to another doesn't have direct emotional impact on me.

I would appreciate it if board ids, message ids, and whatever else is needed for bookmarks and links to keep working stays unchanged.

Oh, and I'd like my favorites page to still list the same boards after conversion that it does before conversion. (But I'm pretty sure you would have figured that one out on your own.)

Patzer
easy to please on this subject
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Thanks Dean. Improve the Fool is in the Fool Member Help Desk area.

In terms of change, this would not affect favorites at all. It would only affect the names of the containers. So, when you look above and see the navigation that says: The Information Desk / Improve the Fool, it would simply be replaced by Fool Member Help Desk / Improve the Fool.

Everything else would be the same.

We're going to redesign the main boards page to provide a better directory structure that can highlight the boards in these categories.

Best,

Bogey

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No. of Recommendations: 7
It would be nice if this complete list was listed somewhere intuitive for reference even if you couldn't provide links to each of the individual boards.

For example, New Paradigm isn't on my favorites because I don't want to check it everday and I already have so many that the list runs off the screen. When I want to go there I can never find it. I can never remember what board topic it's under and then sometimes I forget about the "New" part and think of it as Paradigm and look for it under "P". Usually, I just give up. If I really want to go there I will go to my favorite users and get there that way but most of the time I just don't bother unless I see it on the "Best Of".

JMHO
-Quasie
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Censorship News, Politics & Religion

Since the Censorship board is about Censorship at the Motley Fool and not Censorship in general shouldn't it be under the help desk?


Board of Pure Evil Social Clubs

Since being evil is more of life it might be better classified as News, Politics & Religion. Since only Evil people should be there, and non evil punks shouldn't be there FAing posts maybe it should be Fools of a feather, except that doesn't sound very evil. Just saying that it would be more appropriate somewhere else

Bogey's Bungalow Investment Clubs

Dude, have you read the board?


Ford

Ok one of them was on topic
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Boilermaker Club Sports

Nope, social club. Think of the drink instead of the university...:^)
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So what is the long term reasoning behind this? Is it simply to assist new fools in finding boards of choice or is there something more sinister in the making? Will this affect how the Best of listing will be presented? Will certain categories eventually be weeded out of the Best of?


CaveGirl
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Will this affect how the Best of listing will be presented? Will certain categories eventually be weeded out of the Best of?

As I read this, it occurs to me that maybe the Best Of could be requested by folder. To make this most helpful, you'd want boards that interest the same people to be in common folders. So, some people might care about Best of Social Boards, while others might care about Best of Club Sports.

Patzer
who will probably still ignore the Best of
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As I read this, it occurs to me that maybe the Best Of could be requested by folder.

There already is that option. "All folders" or just one of the folder topic.

-Q
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There already is that option.

On second thought, an "everything but" would be nice. As in "Everything but "Political Asylum".

-Q
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There already is that option.
//////
On second thought, an "everything but" would be nice. As in "Everything but "Political Asylum".


yes yes.....

but the other advantage of New+Improved....
something like "best of Investment clubs" will get Investment Clubs
and not IC & a few social boards and god-knows what else.

----
great idea TMF....

only 'problem'.... some groups too big and others too small...

nearly half the boards are "Social".... maybe
they could be broken into something like:
"Personal Fiefdoms /semi-blog soapboxes" (you know who you are)
"semi-private, cliquish moderately moderated" (like old MC)
"Free-for-all /everyone for themself-god against all" (like NADA, Censorship)
....whatever.



-x
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Sounds like a good idea, Bogus. Hope it works.
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We welcome your feedback

Just a few things that caused a momentary "I wonder why ...?" reaction as I was glancing through the list. (Based solely on the names; I haven't perused all the boards to see if the activity matches the name.)

Why, for example, is "College Fools" under "Birds of a Feather" while "Graduate Students" and "Grown Up Fools Back in School" are under "Education, Jobs & Professions" (and why "Education, Jobs & Professions" instead of just "Education and Employment")?

Why are "Coffee Loving Fools" and "Beer Loving Fools" under "Birds of a Feather" while "Wine" and "Beer Brewing for Fools" are under "Hobbies & Interests"? (For that matter, "Hobbies & Interests" seems to me to be a subset of "Birds of a Feather," which has only 11 boards in the current categorization.)

Why are "Baby Boomers" considered "Birds of a Feather" while "Fools Under 20" and "Harley Fools" are "Social Clubs"? (Are you implying that we BBs are unsociable old coots?)

Why are "tennis" and "golf" "Sports" but "weightlifting," "bicycling," and "running" are "Health & Fitness."

I wonder about the rationale behind the "News, Politics & Religion" grouping. What do the components of this grouping have in common, other than that the latter two tend to dichotomize participants and generate passion/controversy? If I were looking, for example, for some "political" boards, I'd have zero interest in the "religious" boards that I'd have to wade through to find them.

The list of "Social Clubs" is far longer than any other category (almost 250). It would be hard to find a particular board of interest in such a large conglomeration. Are there no commonalities that would enable these to be divided into 3 or 4 smaller subcategories?

"Words, Words, Words" and "Language Use and Abuse" seem to me to fit better under "Books & Writing" than under "Fun and Games." And "Benchmark Investing," "Buffetology," and "Gorilla Game," while initially based (I presume) on books, seem far more "Investing/Strategies" oriented than "Books and Writing" focused.

Automotive, with just six boards (including one on motorcycles), could easily fit under "Hobbies & Interests."


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So what is the long term reasoning behind this? Is it simply to assist new fools in finding boards of choice or is there something more sinister in the making? Will this affect how the Best of listing will be presented? Will certain categories eventually be weeded out of the Best of?

Cavey,

The reasoning is as stated. The structure and categories are many years old, and it's high time for some streamlining and rational organization; not only for newbies, but for anyone who wants to find specific conversations.

The Best Of list shouldn't be affected, since that is driven by individual message recs, not the boards.

Richard
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I have to say I like the looks of this. A couple of things I would add.

There should be a synopsis for each board that would be viewable before entering the board.

There should be a search function that can be narrowed down to either category or as broad as the entire boards in search for a specific type of board.

Todd
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How about giving board founders the option to make their board 'unlisted'? It could still be found through other links/invites/searches but simply wouldn't be put in the directory?

Not that I would want to do that, but it seems like a decent idea as long as your revamping things anyway.
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Why, for example, is "College Fools" under "Birds of a Feather" while "Graduate Students" and "Grown Up Fools Back in School" are under "Education, Jobs & Professions" (and why "Education, Jobs & Professions" instead of just "Education and Employment")?

Good question. It probably belongs in the Education section.

Why are "Coffee Loving Fools" and "Beer Loving Fools" under "Birds of a Feather" while "Wine" and "Beer Brewing for Fools" are under "Hobbies & Interests"? (

Mostly because we felt that "loving Fools" characterized specific groups of people and Wine and Beer Brewing were more focused activities or interests. I suppose they could fit under either.

We created Birds of a Feather as a catch all for certain groups because there were certain one's where we didn't know how to categorize them.

Why are "Baby Boomers" considered "Birds of a Feather" while "Fools Under 20" and "Harley Fools" are "Social Clubs"?

See above. We created the Bird category later in the game and neglected to move all appropriate board in there. Thank you.

Why are "tennis" and "golf" "Sports" but "weightlifting," "bicycling," and "running" are "Health & Fitness."

We felt bicycling, running, and weightlifting were more related to fitness than sport, though clearly not all would agree.

I wonder about the rationale behind the "News, Politics & Religion" grouping. What do the components of this grouping have in common

Well, they fall into one of those three groups for the most part. We wanted to have one area that covered these groupings, so that's how we did it. Part of this was a desire to not have too many groups either.

It would be hard to find a particular board of interest in such a large conglomeration. Are there no commonalities that would enable these to be divided into 3 or 4 smaller subcategories?

I'm reluctant, at this point, to try and break these boards out into distinct groupings. They are, by their very nature, free form and not terribly categorizable. Aside from that, part of the reason for the label "Social Clubs" is so that new people coming in would at the same time feel welcomed (social), but perhaps also recognize that this was someone else's little club and be respectful of that.

"Words, Words, Words" and "Language Use and Abuse" seem to me to fit better under "Books & Writing"

Hadn't thought about it that way, but it makes some sense.

"Benchmark Investing," "Buffetology," and "Gorilla Game," while initially based (I presume) on books, seem far more "Investing/Strategies" oriented than "Books and Writing" focused.

My problem is that I don't know if newbies would agree. They would certainly know these as books, primarily, and the idea that they are investing strategies might not be apparent at first. I don't think we do damage by keeping them in the Books area and we could do some harm if we moved them.

Automotive, with just six boards (including one on motorcycles), could easily fit under "Hobbies & Interests."

I thought about that too, but think we're going to leave it this way largely because I want to see if the distinct category helps it to grow beyond six boards. If not, we can always fold it back in later.

Thanks so much Wil!

Bogey


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Will this affect how the Best of listing will be presented? Will certain categories eventually be weeded out of the Best of?


CaveGirl


Yes probably. In the UK, all boards in the "Fool Fringe" i.e social boards, do not appear in Best Of. It would not surprise me if the US boards were heading the same way.

Sarah
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- if your board isn't in here for some reason, or grossly mislabeled,
please don't be upset. There will be more than enough opportunity to
put things into the proper place, both before and after we do this.


If a board is not there, does that mean it must specifically be brought to your attention to include it? Or just wait and assume that it will get tossed in the salad mix somewhere. (The latter is fine, I wouldn't want it to die because I left I did not speak up, etc. Man am I tired.)

I also liked Patch's suggestion and would be curious about a reply to that.

Thanks,
HeeHooSally
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How about giving board founders the option to make their board 'unlisted'? It could still be found through other links/invites/searches but simply wouldn't be put in the directory?

Not that I would want to do that, but it seems like a decent idea as long as your revamping things anyway.


BTW, this was the post I was referring to.

Thanks,
HeeHooSally
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How about giving board founders the option to make their board 'unlisted'? It could still be found through other links/invites/searches but simply wouldn't be put in the directory?

Hey Patch,

We don't have the "unlisted" capability right now. When you access the list of boards for any folder, they are generated dynamically. So, by definition, a board would have to appear in one of the containers.

It would require additional code changes to allow for this and we're not going down that way this time.

Sorry,

Bogey
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Could you please include the Selling Books and Stuff Online board in the Personal Finances folder? Thanks!

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Could you please include the Selling Books and Stuff Online board in the Personal Finances folder?

Can you offer up some rationale? Someone else suggested to me that it belongs in Hobbies & Interests.

Thanks,

Bogey
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Could you please include the Selling Books and Stuff Online board in the Personal Finances folder?

Can you offer up some rationale? Someone else suggested to me that it belongs in Hobbies & Interests.


Go to the credit cards board or LBYM (both of which are in the Personal Finances folder) and look at how often people are told they should sell their books and stuff online to get some cash to help pay off debt. It'd be a helpful board for someone trying to improve their personal finances by getting cash for clutter. Putting it in the Personal Finances folder would make it easy for posters (especially newbies) looking through the folders for boards of interest to find it.

Just a few of the posts on CC or LBYM talking about selling stuff to get money:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19183910
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19202089
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19159202
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19061740
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18904993
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18758425
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18699590
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18684276
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19290207
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19290232
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19144032
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18979581
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18932629
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18884512



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I'm with Fallout2Queen on this. I was about to ask for the same thing.

Selling Books and Stuff definitely doen not belong in the Books and Literature folder. It's not about anything literary. I think the Personal Finance folder is the proper place, since many who sell on line do it to supplement income.

Carol
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Okay, I'm with you on it not being in Books, but what about Hobbies & Interests? I'm struggling with whether this is a "personal finance" subject or more of a hobby (despite the fact that some people use it to supplement.)

Thanks,

Bogey
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... they are generated dynamically. So, by definition, a board would have to appear in one of the containers.

Just a thought:

If a board can't be "unlisted" per se, how about the workaround of creating an unlisted "container" (or are the folders generated dynamically as well)?

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how about the workaround of creating an unlisted "container" (or are the folders generated dynamically as well)?

We have more flexibility with folders because we can choose what to display or not display on the main boards page. The issue then becomes one of maintenance and determining who a board "founder" is. Some would be easy, others much more difficult to discern and potentially volatile. I'm not sure we want to travel down that path.

Thoughts?

Bogey
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I don't use the folders at all, so moving boards around from one folder to another doesn't have direct emotional impact on me.

Are you sure you do not?

It may be that Favorites are categorized by (folder-name, board-name) pairs. If they move a board from one folder to another, you may just not find it anymore, so you will have to delete the favorite and put it back once you find out what the new folder it is in. IIRC, this happened once before. I hope this time, they automatically update all the favorites lists.
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Okay, I'm with you on it not being in Books, but what about Hobbies & Interests? I'm struggling with whether this is a "personal finance" subject or more of a hobby (despite the fact that some people use it to supplement.)


You put Coupons N' More in there and that's about shopping and finding bargains. Is that a "personal finance" subject or more of a hobby (despite the fact that some people use it to save money)?

Also Dumpster Divers is listed in Personal Finance and that's a hobby.

You even put Living Beyond Your Means in Presonal Finance.

Living Small is there, too, which seems more of a lifestyle board recently come back from the dead.



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I'm struggling with whether this is a "personal finance" subject or more of a hobby

Once again, ditto to Fallout2Queen's answer.

I've been on the board since the beginning and, even though for most people posting there it's not their career, it has covered all sorts of questions and advice on buying and selling online and has been very helpful. For some, it's their main source of income. It's a sideline job for most of us, but in following the posts since it's inception, it's clear we're serious, as both sellers and buyers, about making the best choices from a financial standpoint.

Carol
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Hey, I didn't set up a discussion board to be sociable. I just wanted to talk out loud about stuff. Including stuff I know nothing about. I don't want it turning into some kind of social club where people point out that I don't know what I'm talking about. Heck, I have enough of that in real life.

Anyhoo, can I keep my board in a Speakers' Corner instead having to host a Social Club? Or even make a new category of TMF Blog just for me? Okay, so that's stretching it but I'd settle for Arts, Travel and Entertainment. Maybe.

Cheers,

Ascalon
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- If you post this list again please sort by title within category because it's very hard to find boards in this list.

- Put all of the "Folly in <state>" boards into "Fools Around the World". It will still be easy to find boards, and it will give a neat geographic listing.

- I agree with other posters that the selling board should be under Personal Finances.

- "Living, Coping, Improving" is a strange hodgepodge of a category, and I honestly don't think it will help people find things. It really feels like it's "the self-improvement boards that don't fit into another category" category. Even the title indicates this mediocre categorization. Most of the boards are about mental health in one way or another, which is a form of health.

Move "Get Organized" and "Moving Out of the Fast Lane" into birds of a feather or "Personal Finances" (or if you must Social Clubs)(^). Move "Living with Disabilities" and "Living on Disability" into "Fools of a Feather".

Move the remaining boards into "Health and Fitness". If you really want to have a self improvement/ mental health category than move all of the support boards there (coping with depression , quitting smoking, fools fighting fat, etc.)

- Make Food and Winea category to itself? Like Books & Writing or Sports it's a distinct category of Hobbies and Interests that deserves it's own folder. Move Organic Living and Vegetarian and Vegan Fools to it. Also "Ask a Foolish Waiter". If possible pull another half dozen topical social clubs into Hobbies and Interests.

- What will the mechanism be for moving boards out of Social Clubs into different folders as they develop?

Neat to see the whole list of boards. Thanks for attempting this reorganization! I would like to see a different title than "Social Clubs", it has some sort of bad connotation for me. But I can't think of a better title.

- Megan


(^) My reasoning for Get Organized belonging in Personal Finances is that organization, especially getting rid of unwanted items, is a tool often recommended to people as they begin to take control of their financial life. The same reasoning applies for Moving out of the fast lane", which is a lot like "Living Small" I would expect.
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Okay, I'm with you on it not being in Books, but what about Hobbies & Interests? I'm struggling with whether this is a "personal finance" subject or more of a hobby (despite the fact that some people use it to supplement.)


Bogey,

Why not at the appropriate time put a poll on the boards you are not sure where to put, asking the board as a whole (as opposed to just those board members who also read Improve the Fool) where they feel they fit best among the few folders you've decided are most likely. You won't need to read a lot of posts to try to get a feel for a board's culture since the ones who know it best will be making the decision. You might also be able to pass the buck when someone inevitably complains about the move.

- Joe
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Once again, ditto to Fallout2Queen's answer.

I've been on the board since the beginning and, even though for most people posting there it's not their career, it has covered all sorts of questions and advice on buying and selling online and has been very helpful. For some, it's their main source of income. It's a sideline job for most of us, but in following the posts since it's inception, it's clear we're serious, as both sellers and buyers, about making the best choices from a financial standpoint.


I agree with ibnana and Fallout2Queen.

rad
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Hi Bogey,

I think that the category "Investment Clubs" is misleading as most of the boards are distinctly not Investment Clubs in the generally accepted use of the term.

Certainly neither the Foolish Collective (& it's projects board) nor the Admiraltroll Focus Funds boards that I'm associated with could be considered as such.

I haven't exactly considered an alternative but mostly they are about learning how to invest & investment education.

If no alternative is available then perhaps "Learning to Invest" might be a better category. I'll cross post on the FC board & see what they think

Regards
Philip
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I've been thinking about the name of that category as well. Rather than 'Investment Clubs', how about 'Investment Study Groups'? That would cover both actual clubs, and boards such as the FC where there is an informal group that work together to learn more about investing.

Lost
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Hi Bogey,

I think that a category entitled "Investment Education" would be more suitable for boards such as

New Paradigm Investing
Ab's Sensible Port
Admiraltroll Focus Funds
Foolish Collective
Foolish Collective Projects
Trenchrat's Survival Alternatives
Kua`Aina Partners
High Return Discussions
Wheels' Research Corner
Martian Chronicles

and may be many of the others under "Investment Clubs"

Regards
Philip
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Hello,

Mastering Quicken should probably go together with Mastering Microsoft Money in the "Computers & Internet" category rather than "Financial Products/Services".

I disagree with the idea of making some boards "unlisted" (invisible), at least not as long TMF has no policy of "private" boards. I would probably disagree with private boards too but at least it would have been consistent and "clear". Unlisted would not stop someone determined to cause troubles in a board (and usually those are the ones who create the most problems) so I fail to see what's the purpose of it.

About the Books & Writing section. There was a board in the Speaker's corner http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?mid=17132589&bid=114301 about Graham's The Intelligent Investor. This board is not active for over a year, however it includes some good posts (usually by ZenvestorB) about the book. Since this book is considered important for the "value investing" school & since many of those posts have no "time limit" it would be nice to include that board in the Books & Writings section.

OT: sometime ago there was a questionnaire about stuff we would like improved at TMF. One of the ideas there was the ability to save posts/threads of interest, locally in our computer. Any hope of seeing this feature added?

best regards
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Got this question while looking at something else: Does "Genealogy" belong under Family Life, rather than Hobbies and Interests? I recognise that it's the study of families, but isn't this like putting Numismatic Fools under something like Personal Finances since they deal with money?

But really, for the number of boards here, that's a really decent first cut.

Kevin :)
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Tough job - lots of boards and unless you really read them, classifing them is sure to upset the members.

I endorse the following suggestion - I do read a few of the boards list and think the term Investment Clubs is not appropriate for those I read.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19337845

Gordon
Atlanta
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Hi smyr


OT: sometime ago there was a questionnaire about stuff we would like improved at TMF. One of the ideas there was the ability to save posts/threads of interest, locally in our computer. Any hope of seeing this feature added?


How would that differ from using your browsers option
- File -Save as - (save as type = web page html only )


sorry if this has been discussed before - too lazy to look

PeppermintPig (like a fly in amber -forever trapped in uppercase )
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- if your board isn't in here for some reason, or grossly mislabeled,
please don't be upset. There will be more than enough opportunity to
put things into the proper place, both before and after we do this.


So you think the members of the Fool are shy and won't bring this to your attention? ( ;0)


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I was perusing the list and found this entry:

Dual Income No Kids Fools.............................Birds of a Feather

What makes Birds of a Feather different from Social Clubs?
Seems to me that all of the Birds of a Feather category of boards are social clubs?

Why wouldn't College Fools appear in Education, Jobs & Professions?

Why wouldn't Teens and Their Money appear in Family Life?

Why not combine Financial Planning and Financial Products & Services into "Financial Planning, Products & Services"?

Why not combine Health & Fitness and Living, Coping, Improving into one category?

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Why is African American Fools listed in "Social Clubs" while Christian, Jewish, Liberal, Conservative, et cetera et cetera et cetera is "News, Politics & Religion"? Most of the posts at AA are news, politics and religion.

Uhura
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I don't think that prospective early retirees will ever find the Retire Early Home Page under the Investments Clubs folder. Early retirees are pretty independent and are unlikely to want to have anything to do with "clubs". Besides, we don't talk much about individual investments, but rather the concept of saving lots and saving often. Seems to fit under Personal Finance better from my perspective. I'm just trying to look at it from the newbie's point of view.

arrete
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What makes Birds of a Feather different from Social Clubs?

Hey Precious,

They may indeed be social clubs. By nature, I believe all boards are "social." The distinction we're making here is that Bird are groups of people who share a common theme that's articulated in the title of the board and it's clear to the person viewing that title.

Why wouldn't College Fools appear in Education, Jobs & Professions?

I think it should.

Why wouldn't Teens and Their Money appear in Family Life?

I guess it could, but I'm not sure people will get the direct relationship between Teens and family. They aren't necessarily related. Tough one.

Why not combine Financial Planning and Financial Products & Services into "Financial Planning, Products & Services"?

Because we believe they are distinct enough to warrant separate headings.

Why not combine Health & Fitness and Living, Coping, Improving into one category?

Same answer. Part of the reason we're doing this is to better segment and achieve a greater level of specificity within our groupings so that it's easier to find things. Living, Coping, and Improving is arguably a subset of Health, but distinct enough to break out.

Thanks,

Bogey
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Why is African American Fools listed in "Social Clubs" while Christian, Jewish, Liberal, Conservative, et cetera et cetera et cetera is "News, Politics & Religion"? Most of the posts at AA are news, politics and religion.

Uhura,

It's a good question, and one of the challenges we face when trying to categorize so many boards. We weren't able to define the content for every board. The larger problem is that some boards are mistitled based on the content underlying.

In some cases, the board should either be renamed to better reflect the content, or we need to stick with the name and catalog it as it's titled. Even so, African American Fools may be better in Birds of a Feather, though that, in and of itself, could be controversial. Another tough one.

Thanks,

Bogey
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I don't think that prospective early retirees will ever find the Retire Early Home Page under the Investments Clubs folder.

Thanks arrete. I'm not sure if they would find it. A lot of people have already found it and it's even more hidden than it would be. Let me think on it. We may be rearranging some of the Investment Club language, so it could fit in another unnamed grouping.

Thanks,

Bogey
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In some cases, the board should either be renamed to better reflect the content, or we need to stick with the name and catalog it as it's titled. Even so, African American Fools may be better in Birds of a Feather, though that, in and of itself, could be controversial. Another tough one.

Bogey, that is utter bull and you know it. In keeping with the content of the AAF board, it belongs in "News, Politics & Religion." It is not a social club, it is not an exclusive, segregated board, it does not need a special classification of its own. Anyone with an open mind is welcome to post there, and many non-African American Fools do.

Rename the board, indeed. You are a piece of work.

Uhura
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Bogey, that is utter bull and you know it.

Uhura,

Sorry if I upset you, that wasn't my intent. When I said that "in some cases the board should be renamed" I was speaking generally about a lot of boards on the Fool where the title of the board doesn't make it clear exactly what the content is underneath. In those cases, a better title would do more to help new people understand what the discussion was all about. I don't know if that's true of the board in question.

If I'm brand new to the Fool and I see a title of a board called "African American Fools" then I'm probably going to conclude one of several things:

1. That the common bond on that board is that most or all of the participants are African American.

and/or

2. That the discussion is focused on African Americans, even if the people doing the discussing aren't African American.

As a newbie, and even a veteran Fool, neither of those a priori assumptions says "News, Politics, and Religion."

Further, if I saw a board titled "African American Fools" in the News, Politics, and Religion area I'd might conclude that it was about news, politics, or religion as those things specifically related to African Americans.

I'll probably post a poll on that and several other boards to see where the board participants think it best fits. I'm just trying to get across to you the difficulty of this exercise, especially when we're not totally in tune with the exact of content on every board, and when you are trying to achieve greater clarity for people who want to find topics of interest.

So, let me ask you, what is the common bond in that folder? Is it that most of the participants are African American or that the group (both African American and non-African American) likes to talk about news, politics, and religion. If the former, would the board be equally receptive to discussions about sports, book, and fitness? If the latter, does the name of the board truly represent the common bond?

You see how hard this is, I hope, and not just for this one board.

Thanks,

Bogey
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We may be rearranging some of the Investment Club language, so it could fit in another unnamed grouping.

I agree with arrete that RetireEarlyHomePage is not an investment club. Life Fulfilment Strategies would be more in line with its intent. I could see it in Personal Finance or Investment Strategies, but it is so much more.

1HappyFool
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I agree with arrete that RetireEarlyHomePage is not an investment club. Life Fulfilment Strategies would be more in line with its intent. I could see it in Personal Finance or Investment Strategies, but it is so much more.

That's the hardest thing about the exercise. The passionate board participants know that the board means more than a few short words can express. But, if we're going to introduce many new Fools to the wonderful community we have, then we need to better help them with easy-to-understand labeling, even if that labeling only captures 80% of what the board is about.

It's clear to me that Investment Clubs, at least as they are commonly understood, is a misnomer for what we have with a lot of boards here. I venture a guess that not a single one of the boards labeled "Investment Club" actually have participants who are running a true investment club in the sense that they all contribute money, etc.

So, that leaves us to choose new language. I've heard a few names:

Investment Study Groups
Life Fulfillment Strategies

I kind of like the "study group" idea, or perhaps Investment Roundtable, which is the name of a category we have now.

Any other labeling you can think of for the group of boards where the denizens are gathered to share investment knowledge with no specific focus that would put them in some other grouping?

So far, I'm hooked on Investment Study Groups, so that may be it unless we get a better label.

Thanks,

Bogey
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Putting the "Retire Early Home Page" in the Investment Clubs category seems like a real mismatch. It doesn't bear even the slightest resemblance to an investment club. The focus is on retirement issues, NOT investment club selections.

How about a new category called "Retirement Issues", or some such thing? I would think that there are a number of retirement-oriented groups at the Fool that could be consolidated that way. And new TMF members who are interested in communicating about retirement issues are more likely to be look for a category with "Retirement" in the title than something called "Investment Clubs".

I second the notion that this is only important for new TMF members; the rest of us have this bookmarked on our favorite baords and don't care where you put it as long as our link still works.

bill2975
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I would suggest that boards like:

Gorilla Game, The
Benchmark Investing
Buffettology
Security Analysis -- the book
The Millionaire Mind

- probably should NOT be grouped with the other "Books & Writing" boards. Those are more properly "Investing/Strategies" boards, except Millionaire Mind, which might be more "Personal Finances", like LBYM.

Also, I sort of lean toward thinking the AAII Stock Investor Software board might belong more under "Investing/Strategies", although I can see that's an arguable position. The Stock Investor software (of which I'm a customer) really is a product or service; but it's not like brokerage services or annuities. The software is used to research stocks, ie to implement an investment strategy. Mechanical Investing, CANSLIM, Foolish Eight, etc would or could all use the Stock Investor software, just as they could use ValueLine or any similar service. Maybe this warrants a different category.
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My initial serious thought/idea (without reading responses) would be to alphabetize the boards within each category.

- C -
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Could "para su seguridad" be placed in the Social Club folder? And is the fact that the name is in lower case the reason it falls to the bottom of my list of Favorite boards rather than in alphabetical order?


Patti
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Actually, never mind, it's fine where it is.
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Life Fulfillment Strategies

If you go with that, you are going to have to put BOPE in there. Is there anything more fulfilling that Pure Evil?

Thanks,

Ford
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Could "para su seguridad" be placed in the Social Club folder?

Patti,

It can be placed there, yes. Also, I don't know why it might be falling at the bottom of your list, but I'll ask.

Thanks,

Bogey
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But, if we're going to introduce many new Fools to the wonderful community we have, then we need to better help them with easy-to-understand labeling, even if that labeling only captures 80% of what the board is about. <i/>

I think what you're doing is great and will make it easier for newbies and oldies to see what's available.

If you stick with the broad subject headings you have now, putting the Retire Early Home Page under either Investment Clubs or Investment Study Groups belies that board. Personal Finance comes closest and I would like to see it there.

Thanks,
--catmeyoo



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Why not combine Health & Fitness and Living, Coping, Improving into one category?

Same answer. Part of the reason we're doing this is to better segment and achieve a greater level of specificity within our groupings so that it's easier to find things. Living, Coping, and Improving is arguably a subset of Health, but distinct enough to break out.


Bogey, in line with this, I'm not sure where Surviving Cancer should go. We offer emotional support and help along with occasional excursions into moderate medical advice ("Get another doctor") and some pointers toward helpful sites. The Cancer Treatment and Prevention board tends to focus more on alternative treatments. I'm not sure they both belong in the same category.

Any thoughts?

By the way, I appreciate the way you broke the two groups out. I'm not sure that Death & Grieving belongs in the same grouping with Low-Carb.

Also, I'm really not crazy about the term Social Clubs, and I gather other people aren't overly fond of it. May I suggest something like, "Friends and More"?

I know the sorting out was a tough call, and I also realize that boards can be moved even after the new folders are created. Just thought I'd offer my thoughts.

Nancy
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Also, I'm really not crazy about the term Social Clubs, and I gather other people aren't overly fond of it. May I suggest something like, "Friends and More"?

-------------------------------

I concur with not wanting to see Social Clubs which to me annotates some sort of close knit membership. Can't they just be called social boards or something similar?


CaveGirl
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Nancy and CaveGirl,

Can you tell me why you aren't crazy about the title "Social Boards?"

I'm not crazy about "Friends and More" only because it could be misconstrued as some sort of dating/relationship environment.

Please remember that WE need labeling that will be most intuitive to newcomers. We chose Social Boards because it was broad in meaning, but also had a very specific feel to it. Friendly and inviting, but also has a close knit feeling so that people are respectful of the group.

That's kind of what I'm after, and willing to listen to any suggestions for better labeling.

Thanks,

Bogey
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Hi Bogey,

One suggestion, after you have improved the directory structure, would be to look at improving the ability for Fools to find other boards of interest.

For example, there are 6 boards that have 'cancer' in the name, but if you go to the 'Cancer Prevention and Treatment' board, possibly through a link, it is not obvious that there is an active 'Surviving Cancer' board and two 'cure' boards.

So, would it be possible to slowly work through the boards, and link 'closely related' or 'of probable interest' boards in the Announcements box, even if it is just links to, say, 3 boards, without even the need for an explanation of each?

You could even have a thread on each board asking for recommendations on which boards to link, and polls if the choices are not clear.

Just a thought,

Lost
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Can you tell me why you aren't crazy about the title "Social Boards?"

But Bogey, you don't call them "Social Boards." You call them "Social Clubs."

I grew up on Long Island, and read the New York Times and watched the local news. Every time the word "Social Club" was mentioned, it was in some phrase like, "Police are investigating a shooting at a social club in Harlem."

I think not.

Call it a bad upbringing, but that's what I think of when I hear the words "Social Club."

And, from the other side of the mirror, it sounds snobbish.

I would like a phrase that sounds friendlier, but still indicates that you need to lurk for a day or so before you post, just to make sure that you're a good match for the inhabitants.

Nancy
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I would like a phrase that sounds friendlier, but still indicates that you need to lurk for a day or so before you post, just to make sure that you're a good match for the inhabitants.

That's what I'm after too. How about "Speakeasy" ?

Bogey
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But Bogey, you don't call them "Social Boards." You call them "Social Clubs."

I grew up on Long Island, and read the New York Times and watched the local news. Every time the word "Social Club" was mentioned, it was in some phrase like, "Police are investigating a shooting at a social club in Harlem."

I think not.

Call it a bad upbringing, but that's what I think of when I hear the words "Social Club."

And, from the other side of the mirror, it sounds snobbish.

I would like a phrase that sounds friendlier, but still indicates that you need to lurk for a day or so before you post, just to make sure that you're a good match for the inhabitants.

Nancy



I agree.
Somehow "Social Clubs" sounds almost sleazy.
"Social Boards" seems much more inviting in that it suggests an area where you might find any number of social interactions to suit your taste -- not some "club" that might or might not "let you in".

I vote for "Social Boards".

And we all know what my vote is worth. ;o)

Think about it, Bogey.
These are good suggestions. :o)

AM
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Hi Bogey,

I'm not over enamoured with "Investment Study Groups" although it is certainly better than "Investment Clubs".

Whilst some of the boards do study in groups from time to time this is not a consistent activity for most. The word "Study" implies some sort of course and is too - well too studious!

IMO "Groups" is a redundant word as all boards comprise groups of people and some of the boards have no group feel to them - like that "Admiraltroll Focus Funds" board which is mostly a personal learning tool that others are welcome to contribute to.

I'm still not sure what to suggest but to me most of these boards pretty much encompass learning how to invest and/or investing discussions + the normal social interaction

Hey they sound like "Foolish Collectives" :-)

hehehe

Best Regards
Philip
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I agree.
Somehow "Social Clubs" sounds almost sleazy.

"Social Boards" seems much more inviting in that it suggests an area where you might find any number of social interactions to suit your taste -- not some "club" that might or might not "let you in".
I vote for "Social Boards".


"Boards" is better then "Clubs"

how about "Cliques & Salons"?



=x
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"Boards" is better then "Clubs"

how about "Cliques & Salons"?





LOL. I don't want to play this game any longer.
I have a very short attention span.
Besides... I'm making a list of all my stuff so Raggs can find it onea these days...

AM
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Can you tell me why you aren't crazy about the title "Social Boards?"

Please remember that WE need labeling that will be most intuitive to newcomers. We chose Social Boards...


Bogey,

The objection is to the phrase "Social Clubs". "Social Boards" was suggested as an alternative, and you've taken to it like a duck to water.

-bent
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Social Boards

-------------------------

Social Boards sounds acceptable. Social Clubs on the other hand I don't care for.

A club sounds a little cliquish to me. You know, like Gentlemen's Club... I never liked the way that sounds. You have to be a part of some genre to belong. It smacks of exclusivity to me where I would prefer a more friendly perspective of joining in on a board.


CaveGirl
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I agree.
Somehow "Social Clubs" sounds almost sleazy.
"Social Boards" seems much more inviting in that it suggests an area where you might find any number of social interactions to suit your taste -- not some "club" that might or might not "let you in".

-----------------------

Looks like AngelMay, Windowseat and I are all on the same page in regards to the general aspects of Club vs. Board.

Speakeasy doesn't work for me either. It also has a sleazy sound to it.


CaveGirl
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That's what I'm after too. How about "Speakeasy" ?

Oh hell, just put mine in the Brothel folder.


Patti
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I'm making a list of all my stuff so Raggs can find it onea these days...
===*===

Noted.

In re: "Social Clubs" vs. "Social Boards" you might also think along the lines of:

Topical Topics
Community Views
Current Trends
On The Front Burner
Above The Fold
Folks Are Talkin'
Tacks And Trends
etc.
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- we are not currently technically capable of putting one board in two
different folders - ie. Intel cannot live both in Stocks I and in a
Semiconductor folder for industry



I find that to be very puzzling. What is your database?
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I kind of like the "study group" idea, or perhaps Investment Roundtable, which is the name of a category we have now.

Any other labeling you can think of for the group of boards where the denizens are gathered to share investment knowledge with no specific focus that would put them in some other grouping?

So far, I'm hooked on Investment Study Groups, so that may be it unless we get a better label.


Thanks for the reply.

This sounds like you are limiting the groups to "sharing investment knowledge". I've been thinking more about Life FulFillment Strategies and I think that could apply to groups such as LBYM, Moving Out Of The Fast Lane, Voluntary Simplicity and Passion Savings (as well as REHP). The emphasis in these boards is not sharing investment knowledge, but sharing experiences that lead to more fulfilling lives. Investment is a key part of this, but finding balances is perhaps more descriptive of the focus of these groups.

1HappyFool
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This sounds like you are limiting the groups to "sharing investment knowledge". I've been thinking more about Life FulFillment Strategies and I think that could apply to groups such as LBYM, Moving Out Of The Fast Lane, Voluntary Simplicity and Passion Savings (as well as REHP). The emphasis in these boards is not sharing investment knowledge, but sharing experiences that lead to more fulfilling lives. Investment is a key part of this, but finding balances is perhaps more descriptive of the focus of these groups.

1HappyFool


Given the broad topics you currently have I repeat myself that REHP fits best under Personal Finance

but if you are open to adding other categories then I like Life FulFillment Strategies too

just sayin'
--catmeyoo, who really dislikes Investment Club/Study Group for that board



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That's what I'm after too. How about "Speakeasy" ?

I like Speakeasy.
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but if you are open to adding other categories then I like Life FulFillment Strategies too

The problem with the label "Life Fulfillment Strategies" is that most newcomers won't understand what it means. The challenge in creating the directory is to label it in such a way that almost everyone who comes in will have an immediate flavor for what you offer.

I think the more likely scenario right now is that we'll try and break some boards out into a Retirement category and include it there.

Thanks,

Bogey

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I'm not sure I like the category Living, Coping, Improving. Perhaps there should be a folder of Support Groups.

I like the suggestion that someone made earlier to cross-link related boards. It's quite possible that once the categories are finalized, some boards might be combined and/or closed. For example, I don't see a lot of difference between Living on Disability and Living with Disabilities.

I also like the idea of a Retirement Issues category.

JMHO,
Peg
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I'm not sure I like the category Living, Coping, Improving.

Hi Peg,

Can you be a little more specific about why you don't like that labeling?

Thanks,

Bogey
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Hi Bogey,

The more I think about "Investment Study Groups" for the "Investment Clubs" category the more I think that it is too limiting and not really descriptive of the majority of boards in it.

If "Social Clubs" is to change to "Social Boards" then perhaps "Investment Clubs" should be "Investment Boards".

Also I think that NPI would now fall in this category as the NPI newsletter guys no longer post there. It is more a general technology investing board IMO. However I'm not a frequent poster there and I don't know how the regulars feel but it doesn't seem to be a strategy board, industry board may be but not strategy.

Best Regards
Philip
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the retire early home page should be under personal finance

looks great, though!
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Bogey and Members of the Motley Fool Community,
In Cool Hand Luke, a movie from the late sixties, Paul Newman played Luke, a ne'er do well who was sent to a prison camp for cutting off the heads of parking meters with a pipe cutter. When he was captured after an unsuccessful attempt to escape, the camp commander used this experience as a lesson for the prisoners, and explained, "What we have here is failure to communicate."

I would suggest unless time is taken to identify the content/themes found on the variety of Boards at the Fool with the concomittant
development of appropriate descriptivor category labels, this exercise will evolve into a continuation of a "failure to communicate." Entering the world of semantics is an awesome task, finding descriptor words to decribe the intent of different boards to place them in a category is a difficult exercise. One must select proper 'labels' for categories that are exclusive so as not to say "may well fit into two categories.' The fault lies in the descriptor for the category, a category descriptor must be mutually exclusive (Research 101).

The proposition stated by Bogey that a given Board may well fit into two different categories suggests that the categories labels are not well differentiated by the descriptor label. Sorry about that, but that is the bottom line of "sorting" when descrimination of category labels is not clear. If clarity in communication is a goal for this project, relook at the categories, please.

Bogey's recent comment is a testiment to the task, "I'm just trying to get across to you the difficulty of this exercise, especially when we're not totally in tune with the exact content on every board, and when you are trying to achieve greater clarity for people who want to find topics of interest."

Keep in mind the connotation and denotation for categories labels encompass:
1. Connotation is a process which includes an idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing: a set of associations implied by a word in addition to its literal meaning.
2. Denotation is the most specific or direct meaning of a word, in contrast to its figurative or associated meanings.

Industry Discussions
The category label of 'Industry Discussions' includes Boards of Sectors as well as Industries. This more likely label might be 'Industry/Sector Discussions'. Yes, industry has the connotation of sector, but for this one the denotation of sector is needed if it is deemed to be important for communicating to the beginners.

Club
To me, the objection for the word 'club' comes from connotation of the word, for by definition, or denotation, a 'club' is a group of people who have a common purpose. It is the set of associations, connotation, implied by the word 'club' in addition to its literal meaning, that becomes objectionable to me as well as others.

Investment Clubs vs. Investment Study Groups vs. Investment Boards
It is my opinion that the concept employed by the listed Boards is that of Analyses e.g., examination, investigation, breaking into parts, scrutiny, study, interpretation, judgment, reasoning, and opinion, whether it be Fundamental, TA, Mechanical, Indexing, Risk Management, Asset Allocation, etc., or a combination. Therefore, I would recommend consideration of including the word Analyses, for example, 'Investment Analyses Boards.' The process of inquiry on a given board may be individual, small group, or topical as determined by each board. The process of analysis remains a constant.

Now as to my bias, I must add the word Collective, a number of people acting as a group. The concept 'Collective' is that of completeness: aggregate, combined, conjoint, cooperative, cumulative, gathered, joint, shared, and mutual, e.g., people acting in a group with shared interest. My rationale for Collectrive has to do with this, the combination of The Motley Fool's mission of learning together and the far reach of the internet. Many posters are experienced in financial analyses and serve as mentors/teachers/helpers in the journey to evaluting the complexity of investing for newcomers, the strength in numbers and the generous expertise offered in the TMF Community is something to behold with 'awe and shock'.

Collective Investment Analyses Boards fits just fine as a category, as Baby Bear might have said, but sigh, this will not fly and that is OK with me.

News, Politics, & Religion
From SamuiriWil, "I wonder about the rationale behind the "News, Politics & Religion" grouping. What do the components of this grouping have in common?"
Bogey responds, "Well, they fall into one of those three groups for the most part. We wanted to have one area that covered these groupings, so that's how we did it. Part of this was a desire to not have too many groups either."
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19322901

I believe it is a mistake to place Religion into this category. Your 'desire not to have too many groups' will not assist in the clarity you imply as the object of this exercise of improving the directory structure. I understand not wanting too many groups but to jeopardize the intent of clarity, this one is muddied up badly. Religion from my point of view in the triology of TMF is enriching, I would better see it with Relationships, expanded to be Relationships and Religion because it is a relationship with a Diety.

SamuriWill raises excellent questions related to category labels and Board assignments if 'streamlining and rational organization' is a goal. And you graciously responded to them here. http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19322901

MainacJoe offers, "Why not at the appropriate time put a poll on the boards you are not sure where to put, asking the board as a whole (as opposed to just those board members who also read Improve the Fool) where they feel they fit best among the few folders you've decided are most likely. You won't need to read a lot of posts to try to get a feel for a board's culture since the ones who know it best will be making the decision." Not a bad idea.

I would suggest as a starting point, to ask what is the primary purpose of a given Board, you know, the reason for the Board's existance. TMF offers the broad triology of educate, amuse, and enrich and all of these may be found on a given board, but one is far more prevalent conceptually than the others. For me, this gives a framework to come up with category labels.

Please rethink your desire not to have too many groups; consider clarity and the potential 'failure to communicate.' Limiting the number of labels is understandable but could be costly to your end product. Many have offered excellent comments. If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Just my two cents on selected points to Improve the Directory Structure.

Thank you for the opportunity for input.

Ro




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Ro,

What a clear and thoughtful post. Just outstanding. Thank you so much for trying to help us build a better directory. I'll respond more specifically to each of your thoughts later this evening.

Best,

Bogey
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Bogey,

You've got Mastering Microsoft Money under Computers and Internet, but Mastering Quicken under Financial Products & Services. These are essentially identical boards for two products, so perhaps they should be in the same folder? I'd suggest moving Mastering Quicken to Computers and Internet, since it would seem to fit in with boards like Help with this STUPID computer!, Spreadsheet Advice, FrontPage Forum and Website Design.

Phil
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You've got Mastering Microsoft Money under Computers and Internet, but Mastering Quicken under Financial Products & Services. These are essentially identical boards for two products, so perhaps they should be in the same folder?

Completely agreed. Thanks Phil.

Bogey
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Personally, I would be glad to see boards unified under one top heading rather than some being under "investing strategys" and some under personal soapboxes, etc.

Because frankly boards seem to be randomly placed. I never find them in the area I expect.
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Hi maracle,

The problem with putting them in one folder is that there are so many of them. You can wade through pages of boards to see what is there. The idea of the reorganization is that, if it is well done, it will be easier to find relevant boards without having to wade through so many.

Yes, there are problems at the moment, but that this the very reason for the reorganization.

Lost
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Bogey,

Kua'aina Partners, right now is an "Investment Strategy" Board. We currently are discussing three strategies, one by nuya, one by NukeJohn, and one by me, comptche. We compare our results and discuss ways to improve our strategies. We conduct research and work together to develop a possible meld of those strategies, OR, develop three better strategies based upon the originals.

The strategies that we use are unusual in that they each combine Fundamental Analysis, FA, with Technical Analysis, TA, and Mechanical Investing, MI, in a different way.

Thanks for posting the draft so that we can comment on our area of inclusion...

Anne

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Bogey,

P.S. after reading many of the posts... Investing "Clubs" brings up too many negatives for everyone, so drop it altogether, please. LostinThought's post #53347 gives a good solution, "Study Groups".
Windowseat brings up a strong connotation against "Clubs", post #53383.
AND the last reference is that you should always listen to BunnyClark, post #53420.

Ask us what we are and we will tell you. Maybe we can all provide links to similiar boards, or boards that we recommend in our Board FAQs.
To Repeat, Kua'aina Partners is NOT an Investment "Club"; it is a group that studies strategies combining FA, TA and MI.

Anne
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I couldn't have said it better myself...thank you Ms. Ro.

RBS
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Hi Anne,

I'm not keen on Investment Study Groups as many of the boards in "Investment Clubs" are not Study Groups - not the FC or the Admiraltroll Focussed Funds IMO. The FC sometimes forms sub groups for a specific study but most of it is discussion rather than study. My board is not a group or a study.

I think Investment Study Groups is much too limiting as a category and the "Groups" has some of suggestion of exclusivity of "Clubs" IMO.

I would prefer a simple "Investment Boards" or if you think "study" should be included then "Investment Study Boards"

Regards
Philip
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One must select proper 'labels' for categories that are exclusive…
If clarity in communication is a goal for this project, relook at the categories


I'd like to second this, but take it even further and suggest taking a top-down taxonomic approach to developing the categories. Something along the lines of the "Class > Order > Family > Genus" classification system of biological taxonomy.

Just off the top of my head, for example, level 1 might have three categories: "Financial Discussions," "Non-financial Discussions," "Fool Member Help."

For the "Financial Discussions" classification, level 2 might be divided into "Personal Finances" and "Industries/Markets."

And under "Personal Finances," level 3 could be "Investing/Saving" and "Spending/Coping."

Then for the "Investing/Saving" classification, level 4 might be "Individual Stocks/Bonds," "Investment Strategies," "Products/Services."

With this type taxonomic structure, four or five levels would yield more than enough “unique” categories for all TMF boards. And the result of this top-down process of classification would be more "logical" than the more-or-less random, non-exclusive groupings derived from the bottom-up process that is now being applied.

FWIW.
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I'd like to second this, but take it even further and suggest taking a top-down taxonomic approach to developing the categories. Something
along the lines of the "Class > Order > Family > Genus" classification system of biological taxonomy.

Just off the top of my head, for example, level 1 might have three categories: "Financial Discussions," "Non-financial Discussions," "Fool
Member Help."

<>
With this type taxonomic structure, four or five levels would yield more than enough “uniqueâ€* categories for all TMF boards. And the
result of this top-down process of classification would be more "logical" than the more-or-less random, non-exclusive groupings derived from
the bottom-up process that is now being applied.


yes yes.

and though possibly more difficult to implement (techie-wise),
once in place, it would be more flexible..
a 'genus' that grew too large could be split without affecting
the whole structure.

i think a user trying to find something particular would like to
end up with at most 8 choices


-x
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Having read all through these messages (OK, at least skimming through), here are my 2 cents:

1) Big Brother Fools missing from entertainment
2) Braves Fools missing from Sports
3) Investing Strategies needs to be broken into sub areas, like Investing Strategies - description
4) Social Clubs/Boards should be named Ships of Fools.
5) Attention should be paid as to how these groups are navigated. I prefer a user interface that does no require page refreshes every time a selection is made. An example might be a +/- hierarchy or a frame based solution
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Ro,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Thanks for your patience. Let me touch on what I think is your biggest concern/point: Please rethink your desire not to have too many groups; consider clarity and the potential 'failure to communicate.'

It's a question of clarity vs. clutter. Think about how confusing the book store would be if the various sections of books were broken out into, say, 5 times as many labels as they have now. I'm sure we could do it and offer greater descriptive precision for the titles contained in the groups, but it would rapidly diminish our ability to scan and process, making it less usable. That said, our primary goal is clarity, though we have a healthy fear of going overboard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One must select proper 'labels' for categories that are exclusive so as not to say "may well fit into two categories.'

You are correct, but there are two major issues to deal with:

1. Board content, spirit, and focus will change, but titles rarely do, largely because those invested in the board identity and history would not want to see the name change.

2. Irrespective of content, newcomers will only know title. Two different newbies could come into the Fool Community looking for the discussion on Cancer Surviors. One might look in Health, the other in Coping. I don't think either of them is wrong, and I don't know that our labels are flawed. Maybe one is a subset of the other, or maybe we do a disservice in this case by trying to be too granular. I don't know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This more likely label might be 'Industry/Sector Discussions'.

Great label, and one we'll likely adopt. Thanks!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would recommend consideration of including the word Analyses, for example, 'Investment Analyses Boards.'

Another great label, with one potential drawback, which makes me think "clubs" again. Some of these boards, like Mishedlo's, Rat's, and Martian Chronicles are partially personality-based boards with bodies of work that may reflect the founder's mindset. The names make them feel more like clubs to me. Perhaps creating the ability to provide a detailed description of the board is in order.

Now as to my bias, I must add the word Collective

My personal thinking on "Collective" as a descriptor is that it's unique. Most people, in my experience, do not use this word to describe things. You'll more often hear the words association, group, or club than you will collective. It's because of this that I don't think we can use it. I simply fear that most people won't know what it means. Perhaps I'm not giving people enough credit, but if you've ever answered customer service phone calls or email, you learn very quickly to head towards the lowest common denominator.

I believe it is a mistake to place Religion into this category.

I've also come to that conclusion based on the discussion I had on the African-American Fools board. I believe we're going to break out Religion from that grouping and have a Religion/Cultures grouping. Thoughts on that?

Thanks again, Ro, you'be been a tremendous help.

Best,

Bogey





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Ro (BunnyClark)
I would recommend consideration of including the word Analyses, for example, 'Investment Analyses Boards.'
Bogey
Another great label, with one potential drawback, which makes me think "clubs" again. Some of these boards, like Mishedlo's, Rat's, and Martian Chronicles are partially personality-based boards with bodies of work that may reflect the founder's mindset. The names make them feel more like clubs to me. Perhaps creating the ability to provide a detailed description of the board is in order.

Hi Bogey,

I agree with Ro here that "Investmentment Analysis" is far superior to "Investment Clubs" which has too much ambiguity in meaning.

Investment Analysis covers strategies, research and discussions and also includes boards which are largely influenced by a single poster and therefore not a club.

Regards
Philip
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One thing to consider is tweaking discussion board names, in select cases.

Since we've undertaken this grand effort to better organize the boards, we've work hard together to find the right labels for categories. But it's unrealistic to think that the board names themselves should be set in stone.

In many cases, board names could or should be tweaked (on our end for primary Motley Fool boards, or for our members to decide for their own created boards). Because while we may all collaborate pretty effectively with labeling category names, it becomes harder to arrive at the most satisfying end if we aren't prepared with certain boards to ask ourselves if there isn't a better name for the board, once that has more clarity or descriptiveness, or perhaps better represents the purpose of that board here and now, as opposed to when it was first started.

I don't have any specific examples... just a guiding thought if it's helpful.

David
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it becomes harder to arrive at the most satisfying end if we aren't prepared with certain boards to ask ourselves if there isn't a better name for the board, once that has more clarity or descriptiveness, or perhaps better represents the purpose of that board here and now, as opposed to when it was first started.

I don't have any specific examples... just a guiding thought if it's helpful.

----------------------

One example: "Skunk(s)." It appears it MAY have been for maverick inverstors (loosley adfter the famous Lockheed "Skunk Works" aircraft business unit that used "maverick" methods.....................and this is just a guess.

Those of us that frequent "Skunk(s)" have no mean what it really means, though.......

http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?mid=19357153&bid=114630

Just a thought (and now Cavey will kill me)

Yoda
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Just a thought (and now Cavey will kill me)

Yoda

---------------------------

No, I won't kill you for having a thought.

In fact, I was considering calling out the press for this very reason.

Hey! Yoda had A Thought™! Calls for a celebratory beer!


CaveGirl
p.s. I still haven't a clue what was the original premise behind Skunk(s)
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Hey! Yoda had A Thought™! Calls for a celebratory beer!
-----------------

Shaddap, you!

Yoda
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Bogey and Foolish Members,

Thank you for your reply.

This "failure to communicate" thing is magnified by trying to write in way that is all explanatory in nature. In regard to my response to the suggestion "to rethink your position" on category groups for purposes of clarity, in no way did I mean to imply that you should add many categories, my thinking would be to make very few additions or relabel the category. As a matter of fact, I did not suggest Religion as category unto itself, which was my very first inclination, because of your desire not to have too many categories. You have decided to place it in a new category, Religion/Cultures, excellent choice. My thanks to African-American Fools board and Selena for succeeding in enlightenment for you. This proves that you are not as unbendable as I originally thought you might be.

On the other hand, hanging on to "Clubs" is just making me crazy. I shall have to gather some decorum to pursue further discussion. I still maintain it is not a Foolish word for what is in existance on various boards.

Bogey says, "Two different newbies could come into the Fool Community looking for the discussion on Cancer Survivors. One might look in Health, the other in Coping. I don't think either of them is wrong, and I don't know that our labels are
flawed." Pardon me while I disagree on this label thing. Conceptual thinking is not an easy thing to do. IMHO, what we are dealing with here is something called the Health-Illness Continuum. There are those who would say disease must be included, I don't. Disease is a biomedical term, illness is a state of being, I am comfortable subsuming disease into illness, hairsplitters will never agree. I believe that each human exists at some point on a health-illness continuum that may move from high level wellness to severe illness and death. On this continuum, we adapt and strive, another word for coping, to meet our human needs, whatever the stressor is in terms of an integrated biological, psychological, social, cultural and spiritual functioning. Coping: defend, interrupt, oppose, preserve, prevent, protect, withstand, arrest, how one contends with difficulties and acts to overcome them. Just a wonderful word.

Thus, here it comes, I would propose a category: Health Promotion, Illness, and Coping. Should you be interested, here is a diagram of the concept of health-illness continuum, although the author uses the label "wellness" instead of health. Note at the bottom the reference to options of getting to wellness/health, a method of coping : Seeing where you are, Learning options available, and Trying new options. No matter how you want to cut it, health-illness-disease is a continuum. http://www.wellnessinstituteinternational.com/What%20is%20wellness-2.htm What you do anywhere along the line is your option of how you choose to cope (or how your body chooses to adapt): healthy behaviors to support health, support groups to enhance coping (all with a need for a behavior change with support from others - eating, smoking, gambling drugs, depression, grieving from loss of job, loved one, money, relationship, to seeking professional help. Those posting on topic of coping are looking for support in a variety of ways or sharing a success story.

This would collapse "Health & Fitness" with "Living, Coping and Improving" into "Health Promotion, Illness, and Coping." Thus it would do the "crosslinking" as suggested by a previous poster. Reviewing the boards listed in your directory, this would include some 32 boards conceptually related for persons looking for realtive topics to health or lack of and what/how to do in my viewpoint, one way or another. Fire away, I am ready for the salvo.

This mental gymnastics encompassed in this project are awesome. My mantra remains and I am committed:
"It takes less time to do a thing right than it does to explain why you did it wrong." - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Don't close the door too quickly.

Cheers,

Ro


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I believe that each human exists at some point on a health-illness continuum that may move from high level wellness to severe illness and death.

Ummmm,

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I have to say that when the doctor walked into the room and said, "you have cancer, we'll know more after some tests, see you in two weeks," I did not think that I had been moved to another position on the health-illness continuum.

I thought I had cancer and had better get some help and support, and learn something about what was going to happen. I needed friends around me.

I suspect that drinkers and smokers see their problems as emotional/psychological/addictive problems, not as being in another position on the health-illness continuum. Same with the rest of the people on the support boards.

The branching system someone else mentioned would work in this situation, because there could be the general Health/Emotional Support category, and then Support/Coping, Physical Fitness, New Remedies (or whatever) as subsets.

Nancy
not quite at the bottom of the Health-Wellness continuum, but definitely nowhere near the top.
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On the other hand, hanging on to "Clubs" is just making me crazy.

Hi Ro,

Actually, I'm not hanging on to the word "clubs" and it's almost assured that we won't use it. What I meant by my comments is that some of the boards feel clubish, in a good way. That's all. I'm still not sure exactly what the label will be, but the word "Analysis" is everpresent.

Health Promotion, Illness, and Coping

While I believe this to be a very precise label, and while I agree with your thinking on the nature of the "health-illness continuum," I'm not sure it's a good label, for a few reasons.

1. Newbies will see the word "promotion" and scratch their heads. Heck, I'm an oldie around here and I scratched my head. Upon reflection, I know you're correct. The problem is, this is a scannable index and newbies won't reflect. It will either make immediate sense to them or it will be confusing. Our challenge is to find language that will be instantly understood. The trade-off is in the fact that sometimes "instantly" understood can come at the expense of "completely precise" but potentially confusing.

2. The one thing we have to remember is that newcomers will come to the Fool Community with preceonceived notions about it only being a financial forum. It will be somewhat surprising to them when they see subjects that aren't financial in nature. In order to get across an unintimidating message of "Yes, this is primarily about money, but we still talk about lots of other things in our lives," we need the labels to be similar to what they may have seen elsewhere. "Health Promotion, Illness, and Coping" is a wildly unique label that has the potential to be intimidating, IMO. So, we need to think more on this one.

"It takes less time to do a thing right than it does to explain why you did it wrong."

I like that :) And, we're trying....but, who was it that said "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?"

Don't close the door too quickly.

Always open :)

Bogey
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What category will this board be going under?
http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?bid=100126

Phil
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What category will this board (Harry Jones Portfolio) be going under?

Hey Phil,

Let me answer this two ways. First, it would go under Investing/Strategies, largely because it's about investing in the index fund.

With that particular board, I'm just going to close it and put it in the graveyard.

Second, for any boards that have been inactive or for which we have not assigned a new category, they will go into a Miscellaneous grouping. In the beginning, I suspect there will be a lot of shuffling from the Misc. category to the others.

Thanks,

Bogey
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Bogey,

Second, for any boards that have been inactive or for which we have not assigned a new category, they will go into a Miscellaneous grouping. In the beginning, I suspect there will be a lot of shuffling from the Misc. category to the others.

Good plan.

Phil
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