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http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/223204/why_tab...

Someone else who doesn't understand that there is no tablet market.
There is only an iPad market...Pete
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No. of Recommendations: 1
goaltender95 says

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/223204/why_tab......

Someone else who doesn't understand that there is no tablet market.
There is only an iPad market...Pete

So true.

Daring Fireball points to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3XHPdexNM
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No. of Recommendations: 6
Someone else who doesn't understand that there is no tablet market.
There is only an iPad market...


No kidding. iPad is now my primary electronics device. It's how I mostly browse the web, read the news, read a book, play Go, play the odd game, check the stars, look up geography, occasionally watch a movie when I don't want to disturb anyone, and, once I upgrade to iPad 2, how I face-chat. Among other things.

And all this happened organically, I didn't even buy it originally for half these reasons.

The author is right that tablets won't replace the desktop...I can't exactly run Eclipse or XCode on my iPad, nor would I want to try. But this:

After all, the devices really don't offer anything you can't get on a smartphone or a notebook computer, and their form factor is inconvenient, at best.

Wow. (cue sound of 747 whooshing over his head) Just...wow.
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there's this rebuttal to your linked article
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/222858/why_my_...

I don't own an iPad. But I do own several laptops and while they are portable (sort of) they are not mobile. They can only be comfortably used sitting down, best used on a desk.
I do own an iPhone4 and some might say it's just a combo of a second rate phone and a third rate computer. But anybody who owns one will tell you that it's in it's own category.
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It's no secret that I am not an Apple fan, as its devices are so closed and restrictive. For that reason, I'd be far more inclined to look at Android tablets such as the Motorola Xoom--which, I should add, could certainly be useful in niche applications such as health care and inventory control.

The Zoom, as Open Tablet example? Honeycomb anyone?
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I think another point is this. Writers are are looking for something to be Replaced by something newer. They never think outside of the box, and see that a new product could be a neat addition to existing ones.

Case in point: I have a Macbook, and with rare exception, I don't take it out on our boat unless we are going overnight. The iPad is a much more useful device for people that have a boat, RV, go camping, etc.. The iPad with Navionics marine software alone is worth the price of admission. My lower end Garmin cost me over 500 bucks alone.

The only downside to the iPad for me, is that it's not as great for typing. I'd definitely get the keyboard for home use. But we'd use it everywhere, and I'm even interested in the book downloads now, and was not before.

I do think companies have to understand the tie ins. I'd give up my iPhone in a minute to have a simpler phone, and an iPad with 3G. It would be nice to have service for both under one, discounted plan. It would also be nice not to have to buy a separate app from the same publisher for iPhone/Mac/iPad.

I think once people realize the utility and prices, fewer notebooks will be purchased. I didn't say they'd die out, just fewer sales. I'd take an iMac plus and iPad in an instant over the Macbook now. As the iPad matures, it might even lessen the need for additional storage and other apps. Not there yet, but it's advancing.
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The Zoom, as Open Tablet example? Honeycomb anyone?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/03/25/google.not.sha...


Seems like Google is realizing they've lost control of their software...Pete
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"My lower end Garmin cost me over 500 bucks alone. "

But (given the $500) isn't that still a marine version? My boat's Garmin (cost $1100 back 9 years ago) can take a deep soaking & the thermal beating of the summer sun - an iPad not so much. Just sayin...may not be as comparable on what that $ pays for.
Cheers,
B
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It would be nice to have service for both [iPhone and iPad] under one, discounted plan. It would also be nice not to have to buy a separate app from the same publisher for iPhone/Mac/iPad.

And this could be yet another big growth catalyst for Apple. Fully synching all devices so that users have no reluctance to buy them all safe in the knowledge that they all operate seamlessly together. IMHO this is likely what the North Carolina facility is about, and the OSX Lion version is about.
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But (given the $500) isn't that still a marine version? My boat's Garmin (cost $1100 back 9 years ago) can take a deep soaking & the thermal beating of the summer sun - an iPad not so much. Just sayin...may not be as comparable on what that $ pays for.
Cheers,
B


True. But the 10 bucks I paid for the full Navionics East software app does make my Garmin 440 look like an etch a sketch. Point being, the Navionics charts are just plain better. The iPad version is even more amazing, and continues to get better. I've seen an iPad mounted in a Lambo, so I can only imagine boats are not far behind.

Perhaps a limited example, but the same unit can be used to display videos and such, almost eliminating the need for cumbersome devices like VHS and DVDs. That's why I bemoaned the rental model so much.
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"I've seen an iPad mounted in a Lambo, so I can only imagine boats are not far behind."

Heck it might make a good fishfinder UI too except it'd still not be waterproof or sunproof. A Lambo is a boutique environment in comparison to what the marine grade Garmins are designed to can take on without worry (course we freshwater guys get away with a lot without worry).
B
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"Someone else who doesn't understand that there is no tablet market.
There is only an iPad market...Pete"

I'm waiting for the price to come down to about $50.
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OMG...Amazing.

I bought the iPad 1 and used it at work and one of my coworkers just constantly bashed it as useless. 6 months later she has one and is thinking about getting another one for her son. I think you actually have to try one before you decide to opine on its usefulness or long term viability. I have a feeling Ms. Noyes never tried one.

If you don't feel you have a need for one or don't feel like forking over $500 buck for one I totally understand but I think Ms. Noyes missed the boat completely.
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"If you don't feel you have a need for one or don't feel like forking over $500 buck for one I totally understand"


I don't have a need at $500; I have a need at $50.
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"I think you actually have to try one before you decide to opine on its usefulness or long term viability. "

A fair statement. One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later. They are not the only company that profits from planned obsolescence, but they've turned it into an art form and I, for one, am staying off that bandwagon.

On a more specific note, I don't have to try it to know that I am not crazy about a device without a keyboard or keypad - putting your mitts all over the screen can't possibly prolong the life of the device, and it bugs me that the $500 cost doesn't include any kind of sleeve or cover to protect that screen. Again - from a marketing/merchandinsing standpoint, good for them, but the cost would have to go WAY down for me to justify all the apps and accessories they want to sell me.
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No. of Recommendations: 10
One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later.

Care to elaborate on specific Apple products that were flawed? Limited is a pretty broad statement; anything can be considered "limited" since there are an infinite number of features that any particular product doesn't have.

As for rolling out new versions a "a few months later", the original iPhone is the only product that I can think of that remotely fits that description and Apple did the right thing by offering gift cards for the early adopters. Even then, it was a price decrease, not a new version.

Bottom line, I have no idea what products you're talking about??

-murray
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One of my beefs with Apple has always been...

Just to elaborate a bit and apply your criticism to the iPad...

Early? Yes, I'll agree that it's early in that it took a year for an even remotely similar product to hit the market.

Flawed? The iPad is so "flawed" that competitors are falling over themselves to copy nearly every aspect of it.

Limited? The iPad is so limited that even a year later, no one has matched it's functionality.

"Ridiculously over priced"? It came in nearly half the predicted price and, again, you can't find anything remotely comparable for less.

New version a few months later? More like 11 months.

I think you've been drinking a Kool Aid of a different color...

-murray
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Limited? The iPad is so limited that even a year later, no one has matched it's functionality.

I have an original iPad, and I'm not replacing it with an iPad2. For me, it's not limited at all. I can understand people relying on a camera finding it limited; but I suspect most of those people didn't buy an original.

I can understand the criticism of the keyboard, too, although it's easy enough to get one that will work with it.

The other poster is not the market for this thing, clearly, and that's fine; she's hardly the only one on this board who feels that way. But to suggest that it's "limited" because she doesn't want one...well, I think the iPhone is "limited" because it has the annoying habit of interrupting your iPod/gaming fun with phone calls. ;-) It's all in the eye of the beholder, but for the iPad, the market has spoken pretty clearly.
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"One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later."

It's not "a few months later" but why is that even something to "have a beef" with the company over? As an investor or as a customer? If the later early adoption is a choice. And if the former - why not profit from those who enjoy so much being early adopters? You're sharing such an illogical POV on an investing board....it's not like Apple is shaking down pensioners to buy stock or 1st gen products. <shrug>
B
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One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with ...[regurgitated anti-Apple cliches...]

You won't convince anyone that your position is one of hard rationality when you attempt to explain the cold, hard reality of market acceptance with an appeal to mass hypnosis.

-awlabrador
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No. of Recommendations: 7
You seem to be complaining about facts of life.

One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later.

I'll disagree with you about "flawed" or "limited", and I think you'd have a hard time providing an example.

In any case, the process is actually really smart in many ways, not just for the company, but for the consumer. Implementing this stuff is *way* more complicated than you're implying. If it took 3 years to develop the iPhone, they have to work with what's available at the beginning of the development. Those 3 years would have seen new developments in every aspect of the iPhone, but it doesn't mean they could have easily changed the planned manufacturing process or popped in an extra chunk of hardware, or anticipated the latest "look".

Looking at how the iPhone was launched, IMHO the price was set so high to actually limit demand. For a device packed with ground-breaking technologies, if it turns out something is broken, who wants to oversee a recall of millions, when you can oversee a recall of hundreds of thousands instead? There's nothing like the real world crucible to make or break your product.

Once the core foundation is proven, then it's time to work on enhancements which would either be too risky to pile into the original or they simply didn't have time to implement. It's a good process...in fact it's the only process that has a consistent track record of success.

They are not the only company that profits from planned obsolescence, but they've turned it into an art form and I, for one, am staying off that bandwagon.

You're vastly overestimating the ability of any company in this arena to control this. Apple has to go shopping for the latest too. Every piece of the product is subject to new improvements every few months, from the batteries, to the glass, to the screen, to the chips that run it. And they have to be smart and thoughtful about which technologies to embrace and which to ignore.

In short, it's not the conspiracy you make it out to be. Obsolescence is as much a curse as a blessing. The blessing part is obvious, if you have a brand that can support that kind of turnover. The curse is, if you don't pick the right mix of technologies at the right price, you run the danger of falling behind the competition or losing the sanctity of your brand.

Personally I'd rather pick a product from a company that has proven they are capable not only of great design, but of handling the vicissitudes of technology advancement.
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"A fair statement. One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later. They are not the only company that profits from planned obsolescence, but they've turned it into an art form and I, for one, am staying off that bandwagon."

I don't think this view is supported by facts. Apple generally doesn't release products that have glaring flaws in them, if you want an example of a "flawed or limited prototype" look at the Xoom.

Of course each successive generation of product is faster and better than it's predecessor, that's the way the tech industry works. If the second generation product had the same speed and performance of the first what would be the point.

As for planned obsolescence... that doesn't hold up either, one of the biggest reasons I like Apple's products is because they tend to last 2-3 times longer than comparable product. Further, resale prices on Apple kit tends to be much higher than resale value on previous generation competitive products. Consider used iPad 1st gens are selling for 50-75% of the retail price of the new second generation iPads clearly the perceived value of their first gen product is quite high.

"On a more specific note, I don't have to try it to know that I am not crazy about a device without a keyboard or keypad - putting your mitts all over the screen can't possibly prolong the life of the device, and it bugs me that the $500 cost doesn't include any kind of sleeve or cover to protect that screen. Again - from a marketing/merchandinsing standpoint, good for them, but the cost would have to go WAY down for me to justify all the apps and accessories they want to sell me."
As a person who had exactly your attitude before I got mine I can say that you absolutely have to try it for at least a week or two before you can really make that call. I wouldn't have spent the $500 to find out either if I didn't have a situation that forced my hand.

I bought my iPad to get the verizon wifi deal because I had an urgent need to get internet connectivity. At the time I fully intended to resell the iPad and just hang on to the MiFi but within a couple weeks I fell in love with the usefulness of the iPad and never got around to selling it (6 months ago). Now I'm considering selling it finally, but only if I can get enough to upgrade to the iPad 2 for $150 or less.

There are tons of less gimicky cases on the market for $20 or less.
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There are tons of less gimicky cases on the market for $20 or less.

If you live anywhere near a Goodwill that receives Target merchandise you can pick up all manner of sleeves and cases very cheaply...Pete
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"Mass hypnosis is real... "

LOL....yes, sometimes it works and some times not so much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8M6S8EKbnU

(sorry, the sweat from your wresting video made me think of it)
B
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I don't have a need at $500; I have a need at $50.

With a parts cost of ~$270, you're going to be needing for a while.
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"With a parts cost of ~$270, you're going to be needing for a while."

Eventually, the price comes down on everything. I can wait. A work Blackberry (that I don't have to pay for) gives me evrything I need until the Ipad price comes down.

PS
In the interest of full-disclosure, I hear rhrough the grapevine that our senior management is considering getting an Ipadsfor all the superviso's to test. So - if I don't have to pay, that's the best deal ever!
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"Eventually, the price comes down on everything."

Well first off that's not absolutely true and even when it is it's to a degree. Your $50 threshold would require free parts and labor (grass, gas, or piece of...no body rides for free). Seriously as a EE who prices out related components regularly I can tell you that it's not going from $275 to even close to <$50 (not without someone subsadizing it & even then it's to make up for it by other angle). Yea, a used one obsolete by later standards might be found in 10 years on fleabay for a song but that's not relevant here & now to investors (even that used one was paid for at full price in 2011 dollars - cha ching).

"I can wait."

As was already said you'll have to...barring a sugar daddy.

"A work Blackberry (that I don't have to pay for) gives me evrything I need until the Ipad price comes down."

And if you had to pay for it that too would be more that $50 so what's the point of this comparison? No one cares if *you* buy one - you're commenting on the cost and creating threasholds untenable for any such unsubsadized product.

"So - if I don't have to pay, that's the best deal ever!"

True but irrelvant (your company will pay in full and it's a good bet they expect at least that $500+ back out of your hide ;-).
B
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No. of Recommendations: 90
A fair statement. One of my beefs with Apple has always been, however, that they hypnotize the market with an early, flawed or limited prototype, allowing people to "try" it at a ridiculously inflated price, and then roll out the improved, faster, more versatile, jazzier-looking 2.0 and 3.0 versions a few months later

I totally agree. It's for exactly that reason that I've never bought a car. You buy one, a few months later Toyota comes out with a better one. Then Honda, before you know it, everybody has a better car than you do. What's with all of that? And why didn't Henry Ford just start with the Prius, anyway? What's the deal with the Model T, Model A, Mustang, Pinto, Lincoln, Mercury and all the rest? Just make a car, make it right the first time, then stop updating it all the time.

Cars! Who needs them? Luckily, I have my brother's Commodore 64 to type these messages on, because computers are like that too. First it's DOS, then Windows, then XP, and one year it's Compaq, then Dell, then HP. Who can keep track? I'm totally staying off that bandwagon too.

BTW, I live in a lean-to made out of fallen trees and vines. I'm waiting for them to perfect "houses", too. I hope it's soon, because rainy season is coming, and that's a real drag.

On a more specific note, I don't have to try it to know that I am not crazy about a device without a keyboard or keypad - putting your mitts all over the screen can't possibly prolong the life of the device,

Oh, well there you're wrong. "No moving parts" is far more reliable than "moving parts". Crud gets in the keyboard, next thing you know, you're out of business. That happens here in the lean-to a lot, which is why I've gone to solid state cooking: logs and matches. None of that "electricity" stuff for me. Knobs you have to turn, one day you wake up and have moss growing inside the switch. My way, you just burn the moss!

and it bugs me that the $500 cost doesn't include any kind of sleeve or cover to protect that screen Again - from a marketing/merchandinsing standpoint, good for them, but the cost would have to go WAY down for me to justify all the apps and accessories they want to sell me.

Me too! I feel that same way about cars! Did I mention I don't buy cars? They should come with garages, all inclusive. Also gas, a lifetime supply. They want to keep selling me gas, over and over. What a scam! Oil too! Even windshield wipers, sometimes. When will these guys smarten up, like you and me? I hope I live to see the day.
 
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What's the deal with the Model T, Model A, Mustang, Pinto, Lincoln, Mercury and all the rest?

You forgot the Edsel...aka the Zune of the Ford lineup.

:)

-murray
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