Skip to main content
No. of Recommendations: 12
We are a free speech board here. Although, as is also seen in real life, those on the Left attempt to censor and shut speech down.

We have been through his before many times. We post on what we want here. Part of free speech is you can choose not to read it.

It has been decided that this is the way of this board, and if you do not like it you can talk about stocks with, well...Tamhas. As he may be the last one here then.

We have suggested that you open up a board called New Paradigm - the no politics version. so far no one has taken us up on that.

Perhaps you my want to start the board yourself?

Tinker
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 49
Tinker, while it is the case that TMF has decided for some unknown reason that this is the one and only investment board on TMF where it is OK to talk rabid politics, you should can it on some of your claims.

The constant *introduction* of politics into this board is not something that came from the left, but rather came from the right. It continues to be the case that a new thread on politics is fairly rarely started by someone on the left.

It is not as simple as merely ignoring certain threads because certain posters keep including political and personal insult comments into what would otherwise be perfectly reasonable investing threads.

Telling people to go elsewhere is only appropriate if you have some other better place to send them. Suggesting that they try starting a new board, which will be missing the authors contributing here is not a positive suggestion. On the other hand, suggesting that the politics gets moved to a new board or one of the existing political boards, *is* quite reasonable since it is the way things are done everywhere else on TMF.

If you think this is a free speech issue, then why don't you post all this political stuff on Saul's board too and insist on continuing the exchange even when Saul tries to shut down that thread?

Frankly, while I consider it a periodically substantial degradation of the value of this board, the worst part is not merely that it is about politics, but that the language used is so full of insult. There is no pretense of an exchange of ideas, but merely shouting the other person into submission. Moreover, there is a complete disregard of facts and sources such that sources which are broadly accepted in society generally are dismissed and unfounded opinion pages quoted as gospel.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Tamhas, it is a fact that Duma and myself and I believe Mauser, and probably Denny, and perhaps others, will simply no longer post here if your version of a purified "proper" thought filled board becomes the rule.

If that happens, no one will be posting here anyways.

As we have stated go start the New Paradigm Board - No Politics (version). You can host it, and create whatever rules you want for it.

I won't be there, Duma won't be there, Denny won't be there...but perhaps you can create your own little community there to speak about...ARMH.

Liberte! A foreign word to many in America these days. Perhaps you should try to practice it.

Tinker
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
Tamhas, it is a fact that Duma and myself and I believe Mauser, and probably Denny, and perhaps others, will simply no longer post here if your version of a purified "proper" thought filled board becomes the rule.

You can bet your bottom dollar that I would not join such a discussion group.

Anyone who does not want to hear us talking politics has several options:

Put us on ignore
Skip political posts
Go to a different board

the one option you don't have is to shut us up. So foregetaboutit.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
I simple don't get how one thinks that they can come to a well established board and sprout out their opinion that there should be no politics.

I feel the opposite. I enjoy reading every post. In fact, I didn't have much interest in politics before and this board sparked some. I'll admit that I liked idea of having Trump as President. Politics aside, it felt right for once to have a successful businessman run a country instead of politician. Here, I get to see what others, that I happened to learn to respect in the short amount of time, think of him.

Keep it going, guys!

Natasha
Russian gal who gets irked the most when Russia is to blame for everything
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
What the hell is wrong with you, Tinker? This is not a free speech issue - to begin with it is a private location. And no one is trying to prevent speech, just to put the speech in the appropriate locations. This is a board on alternate investing strategies. There is no other investing board that has these ridiculous political discussions.

I appreciate the discussions on stocks that, for example, you and duma bring to the table, but I will be leaving this board if you guys insist that half the discussions are political.

Instead of asking others to create a non-political investing board - which seems redundant, doesn't it - why not just take the politics to an existing or new politics board? What do you get by forcing people interested in stocks to listen to your rather infantile my team vs your team political posts?

Anyway, it sounds like this is something that you won't change, so I will be leaving this board.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Free speech.

This board does it better than anywhere. I like that anybody can bring up anything political, stocks, life lessons.

Whatever gets worked out on the side I find a lot of very informative investment opinions from people of all political spectrums.

Keep it up
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Anyway, it sounds like this is something that you won't change, so I will be leaving this board

Good bye!

Tinker,
How do you do it - force people to read your posts, LOL???
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
I appreciate the discussions on stocks that, for example, you and duma bring to the table, but I will be leaving this board if you guys insist that half the discussions are political.

Pack your bags...
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Agreed...I am out too.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
There is a simple formula to drown out politics.....just put in some effort on the investment threads.....bring up newly researched investment options. Dreamer....you have clearly done just that....sorry to see you go but understand you feel compelled to take a stand. I think you are making a huMONGOdb mistake....but your call.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
Liberte! A foreign word to many in America these days. Perhaps you should try to practice it.

Tinker soon you will be calling for Liberte Fries. Imagine that. You can't have freedom of speech unless all people are allowed freedom of speech. Yes even the ones that are requesting that freedom of speech be denied. While we do not have to listen to them, freedom is for everyone.

Andy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
LOL 😂 amazing the shutting up of speech is now free speech! Dang the law (as the law student said at SUNY).

Simply ignoring what you don’t want to hear is unacceptable but must not be spoken to begin with.

Civil rights at its finest!

Tinker
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
good bye and good luck (some where else)
I like the board as it is . And has been for many years with some of the very best posters around.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
Dreamer and Steppenwolf,
Just think of it as a bar. You do not have to hang with the drunks just sit off to the side and eat your Pizza while watching the people. :)

Andy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 10
LOL 😂 amazing the shutting up of speech is now free speech! Dang the law (as the law student said at SUNY).

So let me get this right. Its only free speech if you agree with it? But if you do not agree with it then it isn't free speech? Got it.

Andy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
You all left in a huff before and came back.

But, Tinker, why are you threatening to take your ball and go home when you should be trying to convince us of the correctness of your position?

Why is it right here and nowhere else on TMF?

And how is it mature discourse to put the authors of any dissenting positions on ignore ... especially since they may also post on investing topics.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
the one option you don't have is to shut us up.

No one is trying to get you to shut up. We just want you to post things to boards appropriate for the topic. Why is this board the exception in all of TMF where this mixture is allowed? What hubris!!!!
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Anyway, it sounds like this is something that you won't change, so I will be leaving this board.

That would be unfortunate. I would hope that you and others who disagree with the policy would tell TMF about your feelings.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
That would be unfortunate. I would hope that you and others who disagree with the policy would tell TMF about your feelings.

Tamhas be careful for what you wish for. The Fool could shut down all free boards so that they could completely control the conversation. I think having a truly free speech board has many benefits and allows people to vent.

Andy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
<< Why is this board the exception in all of TMF where this mixture is allowed? >>

Let's say that this supposition is true (which it's not; many other boards on TMF have a "mixture" of posts), then you should be happy. Only 1 board irritates you with its structure. And yet, you choose to visit here. Often.

But this board is an exception. And exceptional. The mixture of topics, poster, and viewpoints is the envy of all the TMF boards. Don't try and make it something that it's not.


Alan
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
The signal-to-noise ratio on this board skews more than any other Fool board I follow. Depending on your needs and definition of 'signal'...

There are passionate posts here about investment opportunities in stocks I hear about in few other places. Also passionate, if predictable political posts I can find lots of other places, most non-Foolish.

What's the noise? What's the signal? I read for the stock discussions.

As always, YMMV.

-kiplin
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Tamhas be careful for what you wish for. The Fool could shut down all free boards so that they could completely control the conversation. I think having a truly free speech board has many benefits and allows people to vent.

Andy


Underrated post...well said.

MC
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
I am confused? If this is a free speech board, doesn't a person have free speech to complain?

Just wondering

SKB
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
doesn't a person have free speech to complain?

But they do! What I object to is people telling me to shut up, to take my speech elsewhere -- say to the middle of a deserted desert where no one can hear me.

When these people complain I tell them how to avoid the noise without trampling on other people's right to speak:

1.- Put political threads on ignore
2.- Put political noise makers on ignore
3.- Skip uninteresting posts

Believe me, I do all three! Some posters are just PITA -- ignore! Some subjects are just PITA -- ignore! Some post are of no interest -- SKIP! Problem solved without trampling on other Fools.

I hope that clears up your confusion. ;)

Denny Schlesinger
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Tamhas,
Why should he be trying to convince anyone of the correctness of his position?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
XMFBreakerTinker: "We are a free speech board here. Although, as is also seen in real life, those on the Left attempt to censor and shut speech down.

We have been through his before many times. We post on what we want here. Part of free speech is you can choose not to read it.

It has been decided that this is the way of this board, . . . ."


By whom? Does TMF Agree?

If what you write is true, then why do posts from this board show up on the All Folders Best of list. As I understand recent TMF changes, political boards were removed from the All Folders Best Of and should only show up in "My Favorites" Best of list? Per your writing, this would seem to apply to this board, too.

Right now, it feels like your words do not match TMF actions.

Regards, JAFO
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
I think having a truly free speech board has many benefits and allows people to vent.

Look at the terms of service and how it is applied. Posts are deleted for copyright, personal attacks, and other reasonable issues, not controlling free speech. There are political boards where all manner of strange things get said and are tolerated because it is a community which is interested in that point of view. Most TMF investment boards are self-policing with respect to politics, e.g., Saul's, where he will let a political exchange go a short while and then shut it down. I gather there are some boards where TMF themselves takes a more active role in keeping down the politics, perhaps because there is a TMFer who regularly reads those boards or because there is a history of violations.

This is very much *NOT* a pattern of limiting free speech. The most you can say is that it is a standard of putting the speech where it belongs with the exception of offensive speech which belongs nowhere.

This is the only board at TMF which has an overt purpose of discussing a specific type of investing which is regularly and lengthily interrupted by political screeds. Unfortunately, as it attracts new readers and possible contributors, there are many who leave again because they can't handle the tone and the interruption. This seems like a loss to me. It wasn't always this way and it used to have more readers and contributors. We have had some uptick lately, possibly cross fertilization from Saul's board with valuable new members ... many of which now seem like they are being scared away.

How this is worth spouting off anything that comes to your mind regardless of where you are eludes me.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
If what you write is true, then why do posts from this board show up on the All Folders Best of list. As I understand recent TMF changes, political boards were removed from the All Folders Best Of and should only show up in "My Favorites" Best of list? Per your writing, this would seem to apply to this board, too.

Because the change that was made was to exclude the category of social boards in which political boards are found. This board is in the category of investment boards, so it continues to pollute Best Of. My impression was that excluding categories was easy, but excluding a single board would be hard ... and it would have its unfortunate aspect because there is sometimes highly rated investment content here too. Illustrates the problem of mixed content.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Tamhas,

Saul's, where he will let a political exchange go a short while and then shut it down.

No Saul will not allow any political exchange, it is shut down right away. But this board has been allowed to have political discussions. I know that TMF knows about this board and what is going on. I am even sure that David and Tom know what is going on. I suspect they allow it, but do not agree with it. I do not think it is in their nature. But they do not stop it because they realize that some people do not mind it. Maybe they have set NPI up as a quarantine section of the TMF where they allow some people like us to have intelligent conversations and still let people like Dumas feel that he can contribute something to the TMF, even if it is only ideologue mindless banter. We still have to let the least of us feel good at times, its the humane thing to do.

So since TMF has allowed this on this board, I do not understand why you keep banging your head against the wall trying to change something that has already been condoned. I do not mean this in anyway to be derogatory but it seems you have made it your mission to change the mind of the TMF.

This is the only board at TMF which has an overt purpose of discussing a specific type of investing which is regularly and lengthily interrupted by political screeds. Unfortunately, as it attracts new readers and possible contributors, there are many who leave again because they can't handle the tone and the interruption. This seems like a loss to me. It wasn't always this way and it used to have more readers and contributors. We have had some uptick lately, possibly cross fertilization from Saul's board with valuable new members ... many of which now seem like they are being scared away.

How this is worth spouting off anything that comes to your mind regardless of where you are eludes me.


I agree this board is not for everyone but the ones who stick around can contribute and read the investing discussions. It is mostly easy to skip the political discussions. I do not think you need to understand why spouting off anything might be enjoyable to anyone, I think it's important to allow people to be different than you are. I understand you want to be polite and you want everyone to be polite to you, I respect that, but this world isn't made that way, and the people that you would try to force into that mold will not respect you for that. They only think it is a weakness, and the only way to handle them is to treat them exactly as they treat you.

I have no quarrel with you Tamhas I just think you are attacking this problem incorrectly. If you do end up winning and the board dies off, will you have really won?

Andy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
You know, when I am at a party with adults, I talk like an adult and say things that may even be raunchy and "inappropriate" on any major college campus these days to snowflake ears.

When I am at a children's birthday party, church, ceremony, work, court, etc. I do not behave this way (except sometimes in court - but then I get paid for it).

When I am at Saul's I do not discuss politics.

When I am on New Paradigm, I discuss whatever it is I want to discuss.

If you don't want raunchy party talk, stay away from my parties, you can always go to Saul's place that has its own house rules, and its own natural way of it.

Yes, the Fool has decided that this board is good as is. I do not wish to discuss it again. This discussion takes up threads that go into the hundreds. Seems more interesting than the stocks or any other conversation.

Go to O'Charlie's for your family, go to Aholla Vigina if you want to leer at women and drink until you can't drink anymore.

Sounds simple, does it not?

Tinker
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
Yes, the Fool has decided that this board is good as is. I do not wish to discuss it again. This discussion takes up threads that go into the hundreds. Seems more interesting than the stocks or any other conversation.

It is obvious why tam and Andrew want to kill politics yet post Little to no investment worthy posts....they seek to squelch conservative thought....that is all.

They love Saul’s board.....so stay there then.

They want the NPI to never have politics.....then start the non-politics NPI board.

But they just keep coming back here because.....we know why.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Andy, I have a bit longer association with this board than you do. I have no interest in killing it as an investment discussion. It was one of the first boards I came to at TMF and it had then and still has a very high interest for me in the investment discussions. Once upon a time, the investment discussions were highly dominant and the political stuff was a tolerable quip now and again. At some point, probably traceable to the Obama presidency, the political stuff got to be stronger and became a real obstacle to the free flow of investment discussion. At one point, the board was nearly killed because many of the big contributors left in a huff because of the election results. Fortunately, they have come back. Unfortunately, the political stuff has come back in spades.

There is nothing about the political discussion which is intrinsic to discussing NPI. The bar analogy is silly because one goes to a bar to spout off with one's friends, presumably reasonably like-minded, not because they are also interested in NPI. If one had a bar meeting about NPI, one of the rules would be no politics, because otherwise one would never talk about the reason for the meeting.

Moreover, I think that it is important that the tenor of the political discussion here is not an intellectual exchange of ideas, but much of it is abuse. Duma has stopped complaining about the deletions, but he and others keep having posts deleted because someone reports them to TMF and TMF decides they are personal attack. This is not a friendly exchange of ideas, but the sort of exchange that has the barkeeper reaching for the phone to have the cops show up because there soon will be fisticuffs.

Given that the whole structure of TMF (and most other on-line forums) is based on creating boards where people interested in a topic can follow and those not interested in the topic can avoid, I see nothing at all positive about having a board which one of the most interesting places to hear and talk about new paradigm companies and investment possibilities combined with right wing political drivel. They are not complementary or additive, but if anything contradictory. Moreover, the political stuff is far from being an intelligent analysis of a conservative position (ala Buckley, whom I really enjoyed), but is a parroting of opinion pages from right wing sites, possibly fed these days by Russian sources, combined with abusive dismissal of anything left of these extreme right positions, including complete dismissal of Snopes and Politifact among others as possible arbiters of "truthiness". This is not discussion. This is bashing. And putting people on ignore simply because they have posted one post which was offensive is the ultimate of sticking one's fingers into one's ears and humming to avoid hearing what one doesn't want to hear.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
This is not *your* party.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Hi JAFO,

From what I remember, the boards that were taken out of circulation from Best of were the Political Asylum, Retire Early CampFire, Retire Early Liberal Edition, and things like Conservative Fools, etc. etc.

Although conversations here and at Macroeconomic Risks and Trends can get political, they were not excluded from Best Of, as they are primarily about investing and economics.

Of course, all posts and posters should follow the Foolish Code of Conduct and refrain from personal attacks.
Print the post Back To Top