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http://in.reuters.com/article/usMktRpt/idINN0531971420081105...

NEW YORK, Nov 5 (Reuters) - Wall Street hardly delivered a
rousing welcome to President-elect Barack Obama on Wednesday,
dropping by the largest margin on record for a day following a U.S.
presidential contest.
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What a historic election! "Yes, i'd like to return this empty suit."

2828
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No. of Recommendations: 3
If you believe the market drop is because of the election, I have a bridge to sell you.

Bill Z
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No. of Recommendations: 3
If you believe the market drop is because of the election, I have a bridge to sell you.

Bill Z
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Go to the PA board and wait, i'll be there in a minute with an offer for your bridge.

2828
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Amazing how insecure the libs are over on the PA board...

If you DARE to criticize the anointed one , they get upset....

I guess they are running a real asylum there for their Bush Derangement Syndrome..which still goes on and one....as they Bash Bush....endlessly, now proclaiming 'it's the worst in history, blah blah...'...type stuff.....

I wonder how long it will be before they turn on Obama as he fails to deliver the goods they thought he would give them....like carbon credits, shutting down coal and nukes, bringing home to troops, free healthcare, two cars in every two car garage in every house that even 'low income folks with no jobs' can afford to live in....

t.
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No. of Recommendations: 5
If you believe the market drop is because of the election, I have a bridge to sell you.

Bill Z
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Go to the PA board and wait, i'll be there in a minute with an offer for your bridge.

2828


Don't fall for that trick. Over there they really do have bridges to no where.

JLC
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No. of Recommendations: 1
What's crazy is that the market did nothing ever but go UP under Bush!
Only when Obama is elected does it drop!
Sarcasman
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What's crazy is that the market did nothing ever but go UP under Bush!
Only when Obama is elected does it drop!
Sarcasman


According to my portfolio Quicken data, I did pretty well from late 2002 to late 2007. That's five years out of W's 8 years. The threat of an Obama presidency has not helped this year.

Mike
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The threat of an Obama presidency has not helped this year.

Mike
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Now there's an understatement.

2828
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According to my portfolio Quicken data, I did pretty well from late 2002 to late 2007. That's five years out of W's 8 years. The threat of an Obama presidency has not helped this year.

That's pretty selective.
How did the market do from the day Bush was elected until Tuesday?
Ray
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According to my portfolio Quicken data, I did pretty well from late 2002 to late 2007. That's five years out of W's 8 years. The threat of an Obama presidency has not helped this year.

That's pretty selective.
How did the market do from the day Bush was elected until Tuesday?
Ray


I agree, it is selective. However, for fair comparison, we need to wait until after Obama's international terrorist crisis has played out. Biden predicted it.

JLC
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"According to my portfolio Quicken data, I did pretty well from late 2002 to late 2007. That's five years out of W's 8 years. The threat of an Obama presidency has not helped this year."

That's pretty selective.
How did the market do from the day Bush was elected until Tuesday?
Ray


I agree, it is selective. However, for fair comparison, we need to wait until after Obama's international terrorist crisis has played out. Biden predicted it.

JLC


I have two comments. The first is that most people seem to overestimate the connection between the President and the stock market. The second is that most people seem like they have no idea how to place stock market performance in proper context. Stock market performance in the 1990s was helped tremendously by people losing their freaking minds.

If you look at prices compared to the prior 10 years' real earnings, it becomes extremely obvious that stocks became *insanely* valued in the late 1990's and in early 2000.

See the Stock Data tab:
http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/data/ie_data.xls

You will notice that the "P/E10" ratio hit a high of 44.20 in December 1999, *far* higher than it had ever been before.

Starting from such an obscene valuation, there was simply no way that the stock market was going to do well over the following decade. It didn't matter who was President.
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I agree, it is selective. However, for fair comparison, we need to wait until after Obama's international terrorist crisis has played out. Biden predicted it.

Well if we are lucky it won't involve foreigners running our planes into our buildings killing our citizens.
Then the master mind admitting he was behind it and getting away with it scot free.
Ray
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<<Well if we are lucky it won't involve foreigners running our planes into our buildings killing our citizens.
Then the master mind admitting he was behind it and getting away with it scot free.
Ray

>>


Oh my. I believe that several of the masterminds are dead. One survives, mainly because the New York Times leaked the methods the NSA was using to track his phone calls, and because he has been laying so low he has escaped being blown up.

We'll see if Obama does better, or whether Osama is out leading parades after Obama is in office.



Seattle Pioneer
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We'll see if Obama does better, or whether Osama is out leading parades after Obama is in office.

SP,
You've been waving the conservative flag for a while, and I get that. I voted Republican for a long, long time.
But I watched us under Bush go get Saddam like it was nothing, while Bin Laden continues to make home movies like Bob Saget.
I swear if we capture Osama Bin Laden while Barack Obama is president, I'll probably never vote Republican for president again.
Ray
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No. of Recommendations: 1
You know you lost an argument when you have to pull out the, "i was a republican until Bush, shredded constitution, blah, blah, blah", he, he, he, come back when you're a bigger fish, if you were a republican up until Bush you certainly wouldn't become a democrat.

2828
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Oh my. I believe that several of the masterminds are dead. One survives, mainly because the New York Times leaked the methods the NSA was using to track his phone calls, and because he has been laying so low he has escaped being blown up.
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I found it interesting that the least reliable polls during the election were CBS/NYT's and Newsweek, they over emphasized the democrat lead, again. you'd think they would change their polling practices after being wrong so often....if the goal was accurate polling. Exactly, in the tank.

2828
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You know you lost an argument when you have to pull out the, "i was a republican until Bush, shredded constitution, blah, blah, blah", he, he, he, come back when you're a bigger fish, if you were a republican up until Bush you certainly wouldn't become a democrat.

I didn't say any of that, and I'm not a Democrat. I voted for the Democrat in this case because the Republicans did not bring security and seem to be currently devoid of ideas.
Ray
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That's pretty selective.
How did the market do from the day Bush was elected until Tuesday?
Ray


Well Mr. Field of Dreams (one of my favorite films by the way),

You made me go to my portfolio rate of return Excel spreadsheet. Unfortunately, I only have my portfolio values for end of quarters for previous years. I figured my rate of return from December 31, 2000 to yesterday). My 60/40 mainly Vanguard index fund portfolio had a XIRR of ~ 1.86%. Not very good until you take into account how overvalued the American stock market was in 2000. We're seeing a reversion to the mean. If I run a XIRR from 12-31-94 to yesterday, the XIRR number is a better 5.92%. The stock market began to bubble at the end of 1994.

Mike
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You know you lost an argument when you have to pull out the, "i was a republican until Bush, shredded constitution, blah, blah, blah", he, he, he, come back when you're a bigger fish, if you were a republican up until Bush you certainly wouldn't become a democrat.

I didn't say any of that, and I'm not a Democrat. I voted for the Democrat in this case because the Republicans did not bring security and seem to be currently devoid of ideas.
Ray


I know what you mean. We have had so many terror attacks here in the US that I'm afraid to leave my house. Thank God that we will have Obama to turn things around.
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<<I didn't say any of that, and I'm not a Democrat. I voted for the Democrat in this case because the Republicans did not bring security and seem to be currently devoid of ideas.
Ray

>>


In my view, it's important for those who may choose to do so to stick around and help rebuild the Republican Party after our recent setback.

But I can't say that I blame people who are disappointed or disgusted by republican performance in recent years.

Unlike Democrats, who seem to want to prevent people from escaping from the Democrat plantation, Republicans tend to believe in performance, in my view. If we fail to perform, we shouldn't be surprised if people go elsewhere.

So I apologize for the poor performance in the past few years, and I hope we will have a better message and better candidates you might wish to consider in future elections.



All the best,


Seattle Pioneer
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I know what you mean. We have had so many terror attacks here in the US that I'm afraid to leave my house. Thank God that we will have Obama to turn things around.

There weren't any before Bush, either. Not on the scale of September 11th. I'm not blaming him for that, but we can't pretend like he prevented countless acts of terrorism.
What we know for absolute certainty is that he did not catch Osama Bin Laden, and he said he would. I never thought I'd see someone pull something like that off, on American soil, and get away with it.
Frankly I'm suprised at most Republicans' lack of outrage about that.
Ray
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But I can't say that I blame people who are disappointed or disgusted by republican performance in recent years.


This loss is big. My hope is that it will bring a new generation of Ronald Reagans and Jack Kemps and Bob Doles, as opposed to Sarah Palins and god forbid more Bushes. We need more people with ideas who want to lead, and less moral bullies shouting tired slogans.
Ray
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No. of Recommendations: 2
<<There weren't any before Bush, either. Not on the scale of September 11th. I'm not blaming him for that, but we can't pretend like he prevented countless acts of terrorism.
What we know for absolute certainty is that he did not catch Osama Bin Laden, and he said he would. I never thought I'd see someone pull something like that off, on American soil, and get away with it.
Frankly I'm suprised at most Republicans' lack of outrage about that.
Ray
>>


Despite the humiliations of numerous severe defeats for Rome, it took the Roman government fourteen years after Hannibal's defeat at Zama before they caught up with him and killed him. The Romans weren't noted for being soft on their enemies either, needless to say.

Osama has had to keep his head down in the dirt to avoid having Bush cut it off for him. I wonder whether that will be true under an Obama administration, or whether we will see Osama leading parades of triumph through the Arab street while Obama is President.


Here's an interesting Wikipedia comment about Hannibal's challenge to Rome:


<<During the war there are no reports of revolutions among the Roman citizens, no factions with the Senate desiring peace, no pro-Carthaginian Roman turncoats, no coups.[



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal>>



Seattle Pioneer
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I know what you mean. We have had so many terror attacks here in the US that I'm afraid to leave my house. Thank God that we will have Obama to turn things around.

There weren't any before Bush, either.


No terrorism in the US before Bush?

The first WTC bombing

Oklahoma City bombing

The Unabomber

Centennial Olympic Park bombing

1983 U.S. Senate bombing

etc.
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No terrorism in the US before Bush?

The first WTC bombing

Oklahoma City bombing

The Unabomber

Centennial Olympic Park bombing

1983 U.S. Senate bombing



My original post said Not on the scale of September 11th. Which is uncategorically true. We didn't get bin Laden, instead we focused on, and got Saddam, who didn't plan Sept 11th. That's my point, and I'm sticking to it.
I'm done here. You seem unable or unwilling to keep a single train of thought, and now you are taking me out of context.
Ray
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My original post said Not on the scale of September 11th. Which is uncategorically true. We didn't get bin Laden, instead we focused on, and got Saddam, who didn't plan Sept 11th. That's my point, and I'm sticking to it.

I'm done here.


We're glad.

You seem unable or unwilling to keep a single train of thought, and now you are taking me out of context.
Ray


You are the one suggesting that we need more security without making an argument that is even remotely compelling.
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<<No terrorism in the US before Bush?

The first WTC bombing

Oklahoma City bombing

The Unabomber

Centennial Olympic Park bombing

1983 U.S. Senate bombing


My original post said Not on the scale of September 11th. Which is uncategorically true.>>


I'd have to consider the bombing of the Oklahoma Federal Office Building to be on a scale comparable to 9/11.

The bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, too.


The attack on the USS Cole, not quite there, but pretty much there in terms of it's intention, as to various bombings of US Embassies.

The capture of the US Embassy in Iran and the torture/imprisonment of the people there was certainly an affront to the United States comparable to the 9/11 attack in it's affront to the country. if not in scale.


Plenty of outrages in that list.



Seattle Pioneer
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Plenty of outrages in that list.


Hey madcapitalist said here on US soil. I read the entire thread, and kept up with it the whole time. It wasn't even hard.
Your way is better though. It is easier to win an argument if you just attack one post rather than having the attention span to follow a thread as it unfolds from beginning to end.
Ray
ps ok now i'm out
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ps ok now i'm out
-------------------
Thank you.
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<<Plenty of outrages in that list.


Hey madcapitalist said here on US soil. I read the entire thread, and kept up with it the whole time. It wasn't even hard.
Your way is better though. It is easier to win an argument if you just attack one post rather than having the attention span to follow a thread as it unfolds from beginning to end.
Ray
ps ok now i'm out
>>


Yes, you are perfectly correct. I ignored the arbitrary limitations on outrages to the safety and dignity of the United States and it's citizens.

Even applying such limitations, the Oklahoma bombing was on a scale at least within hailing distance of the 9/11 attack. And the attempt to blow up the WTC in the 1990s while Clinton was President was the dog that was barking to which we didn't listen.


Seattle Pioneer
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There weren't any before Bush, either. Not on the scale of September 11th. I'm not blaming him for that, but we can't pretend like he prevented countless acts of terrorism.

World Trade Center, 1993. At the time, experts agreed that it was almost certainly an attempt to topple the building.

In other words, during Clinton's first year in office they tried, and in Bush's first year in office they tried again.

(I'm staying out of the BosWash area for a couple years... of course, since I live near Seattle, this isn't exactly an inconvenience.)
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My original post said Not on the scale of September 11th. Which is uncategorically true.

A plausible attempt to destroy the World Trade Center is not on the same scale as a plausible attempt to destroy the World Trade Center.
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