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Yep.

All around the country they are doing their TPS reports, jubilant that people earning more than $399,999 will pay more taxes while their tax-chickenhawk Leftist selves can keep mooching. Mooches from I.T cubicles in San Francisco to Seattle to Boston were thrilled.

Until they found out they had to pay up also.

Read that link. I guess one of the Leftists got sick of posting on Facebook or Twitter so decided to go blog and whine about his taxes.

I must credit the Dope1 Foundation for this hilarious link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022125273


Note the responses. A bunch of Liberals telling the poor guy that he should've never had that tax cut to begin with. Kind of like women telling women "you must've deserved it if he got that mad at you".

Sheesh LOL

JEdiG
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Leftist Upset with taxes
========================

Only when they have to pay them, not when other people's taxes better off than themselves go up.
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Where's their compassion?
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Where's their compassion?

People not willing to pay their fair share of taxes are unpatriotic traitors.
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All around the country they are doing their TPS reports, jubilant that people earning more than $399,999 will pay more taxes while their tax-chickenhawk Leftist selves can keep mooching. Mooches from I.T cubicles in San Francisco to Seattle to Boston were thrilled.

Until they found out they had to pay up also.
---------------

I predict a number of maneuvers to get income below $400,000. People aren't stupid. Neither are lawyers - they'll be out in droves.

arrete
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I predict a number of maneuvers to get income below $400,000. People aren't stupid. Neither are lawyers - they'll be out in droves.

They are writing letters to their clients as we speak to suggest a multitude of ways to dodge the tax man. That's what rational people do when taxes are confiscatory and unnecesarily excessive and beyond what the government should need to pay for a constitional government. When thieves are elected by a parasitical mob majority and have the power of the purse, patriotic Americans have a duty to find any way they can to keep those extortionists from picking their pockets.

Tax avoidance in such situations is praiseworthy and good. Fighting theieves and tyrants is always noble.
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Fighting theieves and tyrants is always noble

NO!!!!!!!! Liberals need to bend over and grab their ankles for the good of their fellow man. Here is their chance to show us how compassion and patriotic they truly are.

Pay up libs!!!!
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That is hysterical!


Look at the responses. Apparently when someone right of center posts something they don't like, they block out the message and replace it with this:

This message was hidden by Jury decision.


Hahahahaha! I guess every message board has a way for liberals to get rid of unpleasant truth.
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I predict a number of maneuvers to get income below $400,000. People aren't stupid. Neither are lawyers - they'll be out in droves.

ar
*******

REALLY?

Some people might even sell a 12 year successful business, pay Bush's LOW capital gains tax rate, and the next year collect unemployment while forgoing the HIGHER tax rate he would've paid.

All the while knowing that had he expanded the original enterprise, there would be 20 more full time jobs on payroll at this minute.

Anonymous.

JediG
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I especially like this answer from the clueless:

And by the way, that is not a tax increase, it is finally allowing a temporary bu$h tax cut to expire.

I didn't know that Bush was still President in 2010 in the DU world.
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I predict a number of maneuvers to get income below $400,000. People aren't stupid. Neither are lawyers - they'll be out in droves.

I was discussing with my Dem friend just yesterday the implications of the new tax hike. Her goal is to make $500,000 in 2013. She said, "Well, then, I'll just create other companies to divide up my income to keep each company's income below $400,000. There are get-arounds for everything."

Presto!
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When thieves are elected by a parasitical mob majority and have the power of the purse, patriotic Americans have a duty to find any way they can to keep those extortionists from picking their pockets. Tax avoidance in such situations is praiseworthy and good. Fighting theieves and tyrants is always noble.

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."

Learned Hand (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals,  in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)
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Hahahahaha! I guess every message board has a way for liberals to get rid of unpleasant truth.
____________________

It does not take a message board. This apparently is factory installed with libs.

Look at their use of Christianity for instance. They can quote minutia to create an invalid narrative, and they can provide chapter and verse for their thought. But they miss that --for truth-- their particular quote has to be taken in context of a fairly large and evolved belief system that it draws context from other Christian doctrine

This is the same 'trick' they use constantly. They think a data point out of context defines reality. It is the seed that grows the illness that is liberalism
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They can quote minutia to create an invalid narrative, and they can provide chapter and verse for their thought. But they miss that --for truth-- their particular quote has to be taken in context of a fairly large and evolved belief system that it draws context from other Christian doctrine.

We have at least one member here who does this routinely.

Heck, there are entire so called Christian denominations that do this, but the wider message of the Bible is that God has a plan to reconcile His creatures to Himself. Most of us know what that plan is, so the only thing left is what we do about it.
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"but the wider message of the Bible is that God has a plan to reconcile His creatures to Himself. Most of us know what that plan is, so the only thing left is what we do about it. "

enjoy that 'privelege' in your homes and god-boxes and leave the rest of us out of it

thanks


t.
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enjoy that 'privelege' in your homes and god-boxes and leave the rest of us out of it

thanks
)_____________________

The overwhelming majority already do

That a word ticks you off so badly seems more your problem than that of most other folks. But enjoy.
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enjoy that 'privelege' in your homes and god-boxes and leave the rest of us out of it

I agree. Government should not endorse any religion...and it doesn't.
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I agree. Government should not endorse any religion...and it doesn't.
----------

Well, except Global Warming.

arrete
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Tele, what do you believe happens to us after we die?
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agree. Government should not endorse any religion...and it doesn't.
----------

Well, except Global Warming.

arrete


And abortion, which is a holy sacrament to liberal statists.
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Josh:"Tele, what do you believe happens to us after we die? "

b-e-l-i-e-v-e?

The same as when your tomato plant dies, when your pet cat dies, when a wild tiger dies.....

If there is some great cosmic whatever, it is laughable to imagine there is some 'gate keeper' that demands that you banged your head on the ground five times a day or genuflected all the time or attended the god-box of your choice ..or worshipped Ra, Buddha, Zeus, odin, or whatever made up thingie.

The Star Trek episode where Appollo snagged the Starship Enterprise and demanded that all the occupants bow down to him says it all.....


What do you think happens when a tiger dies? When a whale dies? when your pet goldfish dies? You're just another animal. YOu evolved from others. What do you think happens with Chimpanzees and monkeys?

Where did the dinosaurs go? (after they died? - they lasted 200 million years or more, right? )..


t.
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Where did the dinosaurs go? (after they died? - they lasted 200 million years or more, right? )..


t.
__________________________

what never fails to amuse me is the certainty you have that your ideas on the answer to these questions is better than other wh have certainty regarding other issues.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess it's a duality thing.
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I was discussing with my Dem friend just yesterday the implications of the new tax hike. Her goal is to make $500,000 in 2013. She said, "Well, then, I'll just create other companies to divide up my income to keep each company's income below $400,000. There are get-arounds for everything."

Presto!


---------------

You really should try doing your own taxes. You would realize what she is claiming is not possible. If each corporation retains the profits then that money is not available to her and she has effectively cut her income. If they pay it to her as compensation, then the total will be the same $500k of taxable income. Just like working two very well paying jobs.
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Some people might even sell a 12 year successful business, pay Bush's LOW capital gains tax rate, and the next year collect unemployment while forgoing the HIGHER tax rate he would've paid.

All the while knowing that had he expanded the original enterprise, there would be 20 more full time jobs on payroll at this minute.


Oh, no, no, no. Zero would never have messed with taxes if things like this could occur. Zero is really smart, you know, he understands business in a way you never could. He knows how business owners think. Obviously, you are deficient in this kind of information.
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"Tele, what do you believe happens to us after we die?" - JoshRandall


Tele is a hard core atheist. I imagine he believes that when we die it's the end, annihilation. I imagine that Tele believes that consciousness is generated by the brain and when the brain dies, that's it! Kaput!

I'm more of a dualist. That our brains are more like receivers and transmitters of information. That we are sort of like the characters on the Star Trek Holodeck, generated by the ship's computer.

At least that is what NDE's lead me to believe.

Excerpt from Denise's NDE:
"I felt the presence of something immense and eternal standing to my right. It informed me that the people I was seeing, were all those who had ever lived. Yet here they were-alive! It told me that all of them..were me! Not only that... but I was each of them! I understood this presence was "God". And then God made it clear that all these people-and I-were God."
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/denise_v_probable...

Excerpt from Michelle's NDE:
"I remember understanding the others here.. as if the others here were a part of me too. As if all of it was just a vast expression of me. But it wasn't just me, it was .. gosh this is so hard to explain.. it was as if we were all the same. As if consciousness were like a huge being. The easiest way to explain it would be like all things are all different parts of the same body."
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/michelle_m%27s_nd...

Excerpt from Mellen Benedict's NDE:
"As the light revealed itself to me, I became aware that what I was really seeing was our Higher Self matrix. The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, and what I saw was that what we call our Higher Self in each of us is a matrix. It's also a conduit to the Source; each one of us comes directly, as a direct experience from the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being. It revealed itself to me in its truest energy form. The only way I can really describe it is that the being of the Higher Self is more like a conduit. It did not look like that, but it is a direct connection to the Source that each and every one of us has. We are directly connected to the Source.

So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being. It was not committed to one particular religion. So that is what was being fed back to me. And I saw this mandala of human souls. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. I just went into it and, it was just overwhelming. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates."
http://near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

Art
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"what never fails to amuse me is the certainty you have that your ideas on the answer to these questions is better than other wh have certainty regarding other issues. Different strokes for different folks, I guess it's a duality thing." - lowstudent

---------------


If there are believers then there has to be non-believers. It's the whole point of life and why we are here.

Wish I had a big carton of premium ice cream. Probably a good thing I don't. :(

Art
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Artimus: "That our brains are more like receivers and transmitters of information. That we are sort of like the characters on the Star Trek Holodeck, generated by the ship's computer."


and when the computer is shut off, the memory cleared..that's it.... it was just your imagination.....or if the Enterprise gets destroyed...that's it...oblivion.....


and of course when you die, your brain ceases to work....so there is no further reception and transmission of information.

t
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Art:

I tell ya what, your NDE stuff just took a major leap of credibility in my eyes since I read about Sen Kirk's experience. I always wonder about the motivation of folks to say stuff. Is it attention-seeking behavior?

But as a US Senator, Sen Kirk has all of the attention he'll ever need, plus his admission could prove to be a negative if spun as being "weird" by his political opponents. So Sen Kirk has every reason to NOT mention it.
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artimus:"If there are believers then there has to be non-believers. It's the whole point of life"

Wrong statement.


That is like saying........some blocks of plastic are white. then by your 'logic', you would say any block that is not white is a 'non-white' block. That implies it is another color other than white.

I give you a clear block..it has no color..... for some reason, you can't imagine a non-color block.


----

Now...with over 1200 different 'religions'.....we just assign them to blocks and write the religion name of the blocks. You would argue that a block without a name on it is a 'non-believer' block......

Heck, I would say that any block without a name on it is normal, and only those that had a name on it was 'not normal'.....


You use the Obama method of arguing......since you are a 'believer' you have to call the 'opposition' a non-believer.

If there is nothing to 'believe' in, ie, the block is clear or has no writing..it is not a matter of 'non belief'. YOu picked one of the 1200 blocks. Next year there could be another 10 for you to pick among.....

I'll won't even 'pick' one. no reason to. I don't think the earth is held up between the horns of the great cow....and rotates between them..... or that Atlas holds up the EArth....or the sun rises in the sun chariot in the east and it is hauled all day long across the sky to the western part of the sky where it goes into the house for the night.nor any of that other stuff....including 'gate keepers' and the xtian invention of he*l.


t.
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"and when the computer is shut off, the memory cleared..that's it.... it was just your imagination.....or if the Enterprise gets destroyed...that's it...oblivion..... and of course when you die, your brain ceases to work....so there is no further reception and transmission of information." - Tele
------------------------


The interesting thing about Science is that it's a method, not a position.

NDE's, death bed visions, quantum physics, and the holographic universe theory all lead me in a different direction.

We'll see who was "right" when we get there. Of course if "fate and predestination" is the "right" answer then whatever we believe.... we believe it because that is the way we are made.

Perhaps the education of the soul is too important to leave it up to chance?

Art
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You really should try doing your own taxes. You would realize what she is claiming is not possible.

Yes, I know it's not possible, but that she thinks it's possible was amusing. When her goal ($500,000 earnings in 2013) is taxed to the extent Owebama intended and Congress just passed hits home, maybe she will finally become politicized.
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You really should try doing your own taxes. You would realize what she is claiming is not possible.

Yes, I know it's not possible, but that she thinks it's possible was amusing. When her goal ($500,000 earnings in 2013) is taxed to the extent Owebama intended and Congress just passed hits home, maybe she will finally become politicized.

What if you arrange for stuff to be paid to a trust?
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Wolverine shares, Art: "I tell ya what, your NDE stuff just took a major leap of credibility in my eyes since I read about Sen Kirk's experience. I always wonder about the motivation of folks to say stuff. Is it attention-seeking behavior? But as a US Senator, Sen Kirk has all of the attention he'll ever need, plus his admission could prove to be a negative if spun as being "weird" by his political opponents. So Sen Kirk has every reason to NOT mention it."
-------------------


Thanks Wolverine. My wife says it has helped me to be a better person, gentler and kinder.

I have a high degree of confidence that there is something to it. I have read literally thousands of "stories" that are similar to Kirk's. And I also find Death Bed Visions to be very uplifting too.

I know I've shared some of those stories here. I suppose we'll all find someday whether I was right or not? I'm hoping I am.

I still miss my mom.

Art
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I still miss my mom

I miss my maternal GM and my first dog - Trixie. Trixie was my bestest bud as a preschooler. Then, she got hit by a car :(.
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"If there is nothing to 'believe' in, ie, the block is clear or has no writing..it is not a matter of 'non belief'. YOu picked one of the 1200 blocks. Next year there could be another 10 for you to pick among.....

I'll won't even 'pick' one. no reason to. I don't think the earth is held up between the horns of the great cow....and rotates between them..... or that Atlas holds up the EArth....or the sun rises in the sun chariot in the east and it is hauled all day long across the sky to the western part of the sky where it goes into the house for the night.nor any of that other stuff....including 'gate keepers' and the xtian invention of he*l." tele

--------------------


Okay tele, I'm glad that gives you comfort. Personally I believe that if that's what you believe, then that is what, at this moment in time, you are meant to believe.

I also believe that at the moment your "soul or consciousness" leaves your physical body you will be surprised and amazed and even you will call out to the Light because that is the way we are made.

We are all healed when we enter that Light because that Light is "God" and it imbued with overwhelming love.

Art
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"I miss my maternal GM and my first dog - Trixie. Trixie was my bestest bud as a preschooler. Then, she got hit by a car :(." wolverine


Hey, that reminds me, the last time I was at McKay's used bookstore I found a book about Animals and the Afterlife written by a Dr. Kim Sheridan, PhD. It was published in 2003. It says "true stories of our best friends journey beyond death."

I haven't read it yet because I'm still reading Amy Tan's book The Opposite of Fate. I've got a stack of about 6 or 7 books that I need to read before working them into my little library. I read one at a time and then put it away and then start on the next one.

The point of all this is that I've read quite a few stories that say that the animals that we've loved in this life will be there in the next.

It's a holographic universe thing. If this side is a projection from the other side, and heaven is the original holographic film, then that means that whatever is "here" must also be "there". Whatever we "bind" (love) on this side will be there waiting for us when we cross over.

At least that is what I'm counting on!

Art
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Tele is a hard core atheist. I imagine he believes that when we die it's the end, annihilation.

That's one theory...but it's only a theory, not fact.
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If there are believers then there has to be non-believers. It's the whole point of life and why we are here.

Possibly, but I doubt it. To me, the above is a simpleton's creed, devoid of justice or love. It's a pat answer to mankind's centuries of wonder about the human spirit and what separates Man from animals (telegraph's simpleton creed).

C. S. Lewis was an extraordinary man and writer. How many people can write bestsellers for children, science fiction for adults, literary criticism and Christian apologetics? In addition, collections of his essays and letters have been published. I find that no matter what I read of his, I'm delighted both by the content and his extremely readable style.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref_=s...
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I miss my maternal GM and my first dog - Trixie. Trixie was my bestest bud as a preschooler.
------------

I miss my GM, too. She was the best. And I miss Linda, RobinHoodJones, Woofer, and Porky.

arrete - there were others - Mrs. Mosby, Dave. Queekers, Squirt, Crooked Tail, Chris. Grandkittens Dusty, Collins, and Ginnie. It is sad their lifetimes are soe much shorter than ours.

I miss my mom and dad, too.
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I tell ya what, your NDE stuff just took a major leap of credibility in my eyes since I read about Sen Kirk's experience. I always wonder about the motivation of folks to say stuff. Is it attention-seeking behavior? But as a US Senator, Sen Kirk has all of the attention he'll ever need, plus his admission could prove to be a negative if spun as being "weird" by his political opponents. So Sen Kirk has every reason to NOT mention it.

Yet when people talk about their conversion experiences, they generally get a yawn.
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Yes, I know it's not possible, but that she thinks it's possible was amusing. When her goal ($500,000 earnings in 2013) is taxed to the extent Owebama intended and Congress just passed hits home, maybe she will finally become politicized.



Filing jointly, tax on $500k comes out to $145,646, which is 29%. Oh, the humanity.
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Tele is a hard core atheist. I imagine he believes that when we die it's the end, annihilation.

That's one theory...but it's only a theory, not fact.


We don't have any clear, objective proof one way or the other on that. So it MAY be a fact. Or your belief MAY be a fact. Or Art's. Or none of the above.

For that matter we don't have any clear, objective proof that the answer is the same for everyone. The main character in Anthony's "On a Pale Horse" is Death, that's his job, and he goes to collect the souls of certain people - those very close to balanced between good and evil - as they die. He goes to collect the soul of someone who is a firmly-convinced atheist, and that soul disintegrates into nothingness in his hands. The atheist got the kind of after-life existence he expected. But if that same destiny awaited everyone, there would be no need for Death to go collecting souls - which would kind of ruin the book.
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Yet when people talk about their conversion experiences, they generally get a yawn

When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer

(2828 completes the rest)
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NO!!!!!!!! Liberals need to bend over and grab their ankles for the good of their fellow man. Here is their chance to show us how compassion and patriotic they truly are.

Pay up libs!!!!


Left wingers have always claimed that with social security it wasn't really a tax because you're getting the money back later.

Besides, Julia: the government knows how to spend your money better than you do because it's really theirs to begin with. So shut up, suck it up, and pay up. Elections have consequences.
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When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer




You cannot petition the lord with prayer.
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For that matter we don't have any clear, objective proof that the answer is the same for everyone. The main character in Anthony's "On a Pale Horse" is Death, that's his job, and he goes to collect the souls of certain people - those very close to balanced between good and evil - as they die. He goes to collect the soul of someone who is a firmly-convinced atheist, and that soul disintegrates into nothingness in his hands. The atheist got the kind of after-life existence he expected. But if that same destiny awaited everyone, there would be no need for Death to go collecting souls - which would kind of ruin the book.




It's pretty obvious that the mind is generated by the tissue of the brain. When the brain is immature, so is the mind. When the brain is sick, so is the mind. When the brain is affected by alcohol, so is the mind. When the brain is damaged, so is the mind.


Anything that can be injured is mortal, and so when the brain dies, so does the mind. Lucretius reasoned this out thousands of years ago.
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You cannot petition the lord with prayer. - FMNH

---------------

That's a lie!
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You cannot petition the lord with prayer. - FMNH

---------------

That's a lie!
_______________________________
...
Snot running down his nose
greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes.
Drying in the cold sun
Watching as the frilly panties run.
Feeling like a dead duck
spitting out pieces of his broken luck.

C'mon a gotta admit FMNH quoting from Aqualung is pretty solid!
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You cannot petition the lord with prayer. - FMNH

---------------

That's a lie!
_______________________________
...
Snot running down his nose
greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes.
Drying in the cold sun
Watching as the frilly panties run.
Feeling like a dead duck
spitting out pieces of his broken luck.

C'mon a gotta admit FMNH quoting from Aqualung is pretty solid!


With his hair all knotty and his nose all snotty, if he didn't know what he was doin' he shoulda asked somebody.
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"It's pretty obvious that the mind is generated by the tissue of the brain. When the brain is immature, so is the mind. When the brain is sick, so is the mind. When the brain is affected by alcohol, so is the mind. When the brain is damaged, so is the mind." - feedmenowhuman
----------------------------------------------

LOL! You need to read "The Conscious Universe" by Dr. Dean Radin, PhD. If I pour alcohol on my computer and it quits working does that mean that the internet is generated by my computer? If I pour a cold beer on my TV set does that mean the little images on my TV set are generated by my TV set?

Dr. Pimm Van Lommel M.D. and continuity of consciousness:

9. ANALOGY WITH WORLDWIDE COMMUNICATION

"In trying to understand this concept of quantum mechanical mutual interaction between the invisible phase-space and our visible, material body, it seems appropriate to compare it with modern worldwide communication. There is a continuous exchange of objective information by means of electromagnetic fields for radio, TV, mobile telephone, or laptop computer. We are unaware of the vast amounts of electromagnetic fields that constantly, day and night, exist around us and through us, as well as through structures like walls and buildings. We only become aware of these electromagnetic informational fields at the moment we use our mobile telephone or by switching on our radio, TV or laptop. What we receive is not inside the instrument, nor in the components, but thanks to the receiver, the information from the electromagnetic fields becomes observable to our senses and hence perception occurs in our consciousness. The voice we hear over our telephone is not inside the telephone. The concert we hear over our radio is transmitted to our radio. The images and music we hear and see on TV are transmitted to our TV set. The internet is not located inside our laptop. We can receive what is transmitted with the speed of light from a distance of some hundreds or thousands of miles. And if we switch off the TV set, the reception disappears, but the transmission continues. The information transmitted remains present within the electromagnetic fields. The connection has been interrupted, but it has not vanished and can still be received elsewhere by using another TV set (“non-locality”).

Could our brain be compared to the TV set, which receives electromagnetic waves and transforms them into image and sound, as well as to the TV camera, which transforms image and sound into electromagnetic waves? This electromagnetic radiation holds the essence of all information, but is only perceivable by our senses through suitable instruments like camera and TV set.

The informational fields of our consciousness and of our memories, both evolving during our lifetime by our experiences and by the informational input from our sense organs, are present around us,and become available to our waking consciousness only through our functioning brain (and other cells of our body) in the shape of electromagnetic fields. As soon as the function of the brain has been lost, as in clinical death or brain death, memories and consciousness do still exist, but the receptivity is lost, the connection is interrupted."

http://iands.org/research/important-research-articles/43-dr-...

The Conscious Universe: The Scientific Truth of Psychic Phenomena
Dean Radin

http://www.amazon.com/The-Conscious-Universe-Scientific-Phen...

Art
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"You cannot petition the lord with prayer. - FMNH
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"That's a lie!" - bighairymike



I've asked God to alter the laws of physics for me many many times. Not sure he's done it yet but I think He did answer one prayer. When we lived back in East Tennessee I used to listen to that Alison Krauss song, "There is a reason" over and over again. I the song it says "there must be a reason for it all" and while listening to that song I'd sort of be asking God, "what is the reason for it all?"

Till one day I was walking through from our kitchen into our dining room, which was a narrow enclosed space with a big stone fireplace, and as I walked through that doorway it was like it was downloaded into my head the answer to my most profound questions, "why we are here?", why do we suffer?" (which is a line in the song), what is the purpose of life.

I really honestly think I know and understand the answer to those questions. I know it's weird but I'm fairly certain I'm close to being right. And I believe that I was granted those answers as a gift.

Art
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Not sure he's done it yet but I think He did answer one prayer.

I'm sorry, Art, but the only way to God is through his Son, Jesus Christ. Since you don't believe that Jesus was/is God's Son, you have no one to intercede for you with God.

At this point, you must first admit that you've been doing your own thing for your entire life, etc. If you've been sitting in a Gospel church for several decades, you know the drill.
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"Since you don't believe that Jesus was/is God's Son, you have no one to intercede for you with God." - Catherine


???? Yes I do. I definitely believe we are God's children which makes Jesus his son, and I'm his son, and you are his daughter. We are all God's children.

Art
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You cannot petition the lord with prayer. - FMNH

---------------

That's a lie!




That was Jim Morrison, not me. Try to keep up.
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C'mon a gotta admit FMNH quoting from Aqualung is pretty solid!



It was from the Soft Parade by The Doors, of course.
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"At this point, you must first admit that you've been doing your own thing for your entire life, etc." - catherine



How stupid do you think God is? How could God design an imperfect Universe?

Could you stop loving your son and condemn him to live separately from you for eternity? That would be conditional love? What kind of parent would you be?

God is perfect. I'm the fate and predestination guy remember? We are all doing exactly what we were programmed to do. The education of the soul is too important to leave it up to chance.

And when we die we will look back on this life like it was like a dream, a holographic illusion, a school for our souls to learn the things here that they can't learn in heaven.

Art
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"It's pretty obvious that the mind is generated by the tissue of the brain. When the brain is immature, so is the mind. When the brain is sick, so is the mind. When the brain is affected by alcohol, so is the mind. When the brain is damaged, so is the mind." - feedmenowhuman
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LOL! You need to read "The Conscious Universe" by Dr. Dean Radin, PhD. If I pour alcohol on my computer and it quits working does that mean that the internet is generated by my computer? If I pour a cold beer on my TV set does that mean the little images on my TV set are generated by my TV set?




If the mind existed separately from the brain, then a person who was drunk or unconscious would remember everything afterward because the mind would still have been functioning perfectly.
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I definitely believe we are God's children which makes Jesus his son, and I'm his son, and you are his daughter. We are all God's children.

That's not what God had in mind when He allowed his Son to be crucified for your sins, Art.

Even Satan acknowledges Jesus Christ. Doesn't mean Satan is a child of God.
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I'm the fate and predestination guy remember? We are all doing exactly what we were programmed to do. The education of the soul is too important to leave it up to chance.


Blah blah blah. ;-)

You need to read you some C. S. Lewis, in my opinion.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

Better yet, read "Miracles." You would dig it, I think. He gets all into the esoteric stuff you love.

http://ebookbrowse.com/miracles-c-s-lewis-pdf-d278827024
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"If the mind existed separately from the brain, then a person who was drunk or unconscious would remember everything afterward because the mind would still have been functioning perfectly." - feedmenowhuman
----------------------


The soul or consciousness doesn't leave the body just because you are drunk. It takes a really good whack to make the soul jump ship. Your heart has to stop and your brain has to flat line, meaning no EKG. Your consciousness is embedded in your body. But when your body dies, and is kaput, your soul will release whatever is holding it in and leave your body merge back into whatever dimension it is that the original holographic film that we call heaven exists in.

Life is like a river that is flowing and if you are drunk or stoned and if you miss it you miss it. We come here to experience what it was like to live in this 3 dimensional + 1 time universe. The whole purpose of life is to experience it, to learn from it, it's why we are here. To experience time and space, what it means and how it feels to be separate, and make memories of what it was like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.

And it really is pointless and irrelevant to argue about it because you think you know the answer and have made up your mind so chances are you won't change unless you have your own mystical or transcendental experience. And one day you will because one day that body that you are so attached to will fail you and no matter what you do to try and make it keep working it will die and at that moment your soul will pop out of the body and you are going to be so amazed.

I wish I could be there to see that when it happens. You are going to be so fricking amazed.

Art
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"That's not what God had in mind when He allowed his Son to be crucified for your sins, Art.

Even Satan acknowledges Jesus Christ. Doesn't mean Satan is a child of God." - catherine

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Last time I checked God created Satan too which means that Satan is also a child of God.

That is if there is a Satan which I'm fairly certain there isn't.

Art
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And one day you will because one day that body that you are so attached to will fail you and no matter what you do to try and make it keep working it will die and at that moment your soul will pop out of the body and you are going to be so amazed.

Or horrified. Not everyone is going to have a beautiful mystical experience.

Art, of all the NDEs you've read about, how come you never talk about the negative ones?
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Last time I checked God created Satan too which means that Satan is also a child of God. That is if there is a Satan which I'm fairly certain there isn't.

I see. Then you're going to be fricking amazed--but not in a good way.
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All around the country they are doing their TPS reports


I never could quite get the hang of putting a cover sheet on mine.
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Look at their use of Christianity for instance. They can quote minutia to create an invalid narrative, and they can provide chapter and verse for their thought. But they miss that --for truth-- their particular quote has to be taken in context of a fairly large and evolved belief system that it draws context from other Christian doctrine


"A text without a context is a pretext." --Quote from a Pastor I knew back in my youth
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Wish I had a big carton of premium ice cream. Probably a good thing I don't. :(

Art



All I had to eat all day today was three tuna salad sandwiches, a bowl of Aloo Mutter (potatoes and peas in Indian curry sauce), and enough milk to wash down my vitamin pills. I feel strangely satisfied.
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Hey, that reminds me, the last time I was at McKay's used bookstore I found a book about Animals and the Afterlife written by a Dr. Kim Sheridan, PhD. It was published in 2003. It says "true stories of our best friends journey beyond death."

I haven't read it yet because I'm still reading Amy Tan's book The Opposite of Fate. I've got a stack of about 6 or 7 books that I need to read before working them into my little library. I read one at a time and then put it away and then start on the next one.

The point of all this is that I've read quite a few stories that say that the animals that we've loved in this life will be there in the next.



I'm thoroughly convinced, based on really, really vivid dreams I've had, that my cat Charlie -- who died in 1990 -- visits me in my sleep from time to time.

Sometimes I can actually feel her jump up on the bed -- like the bed giving way. No lie.
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I'm sorry, Art, but the only way to God is through his Son, Jesus Christ. Since you don't believe that Jesus was/is God's Son, you have no one to intercede for you with God.


Well, then, all the people who lived in all the remote corners of the Earth for the past 2,000 years who never even heard of Jesus Christ had absolutely no way to God. They were doomed from the get-go.

That's where that whole theory falls apart for me.
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Art, of all the NDEs you've read about, how come you never talk about the negative ones?


Oh, but he has.
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Well, then, all the people who lived in all the remote corners of the Earth for the past 2,000 years who never even heard of Jesus Christ had absolutely no way to God. They were doomed from the get-go. That's where that whole theory falls apart for me.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about those who have never heard. You have heard, and now you're responsible for your response.

But your concern is a valid one. Those who have never heard won't be abandoned by God but will be judged by the way they lived their lives.

Those who have heard, well....
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Oh, but he has.

Yeah, he said they got what they were expecting, but I don't think that theory holds water.
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Time to use the ignore thread option.
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Time to use the ignore thread option.
___________________________
I happen to think they are both crazy and the Buddhist's have it right, that's why I act prickly, I really want to set the stage to coma back as a porcupine.
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"Or horrified. Not everyone is going to have a beautiful mystical experience. Art, of all the NDEs you've read about, how come you never talk about the negative ones?" - catherine


Horse manure. I'm glad I don't believe the way you do. You've asked me that same question three times now and I've answered it twice. No need to answer you again.

Art
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"Last time I checked God created Satan too which means that Satan is also a child of God. That is if there is a Satan which I'm fairly certain there isn't." art
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"I see. Then you're going to be fricking amazed--but not in a good way." - Catherine

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Man Catherine you are really focused on the negative.

Art
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"All I had to eat all day today was three tuna salad sandwiches, a bowl of Aloo Mutter (potatoes and peas in Indian curry sauce), and enough milk to wash down my vitamin pills. I feel strangely satisfied." - Andrew
--------------------


It's like you've created a new diet! Tuna salad sandwich for breakfast. Tuna Salad Sandwich for Lunch. Tuna Salad Sandwich for Dinner. And for an evening snack a bowl of Aloo Mutter at 8:00 pm. And then right before bed enough milk to wash down your vitamin pills.

The perfect diet! You need to write a book about it!

Art
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"I'm thoroughly convinced, based on really, really vivid dreams I've had, that my cat Charlie -- who died in 1990 -- visits me in my sleep from time to time. Sometimes I can actually feel her jump up on the bed -- like the bed giving way. No lie." - Andrew



That exact thing happened happened to me with our big fluffy calico cat Callie. After she died, a few years later, I dreamed she jumped on the bed and it was like I could hear and feel the "whump." It was so strange that I woke up and felt to see if there was a cat on the bed!

It was an in-between time when we didn't have any cats in the house.

Art
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"Well, then, all the people who lived in all the remote corners of the Earth for the past 2,000 years who never even heard of Jesus Christ had absolutely no way to God. They were doomed from the get-go. That's where that whole theory falls apart for me." - Andrew

-----------------------


Here's my take on it. Christianity is just a religion like all the other religions and exists to cause duality and separation - which it is really good at. Religion has caused a LOT of duality and separation throughout history.

The soul's lesssons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is holistically imprinted with what it needs to learn regardless of who we are, or where we live, or what we believe.

Belief is irrelevant. You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe. It doesn't matter.

Art
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Oh, but he has." - andrew


I know I've explained it at least twice to her and either she didn't bother to read my replies or she was too dense to understand it.

I expect it is the latter.

Art
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"Yeah, he said they got what they were expecting, but I don't think that theory holds water." - Catherine


How about my roller coaster metaphor? Some folks love riding them and others are terrified.

Art
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Art wrote: I know I've explained it at least twice to her and either she didn't bother to read my replies or she was too dense to understand it. I expect it is the latter.

Sometimes I just gotta take a break from your afterlife blather so, yes, it's possible I missed some of your "explanations."
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Art wrote: Belief is irrelevant. You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe. It doesn't matter.

You do acknowledge that this belief of yours is itself a belief and therefore relevant?
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"...therefore IRRELEVANT..."
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"If the mind existed separately from the brain, then a person who was drunk or unconscious would remember everything afterward because the mind would still have been functioning perfectly." - feedmenowhuman
----------------------


The soul or consciousness doesn't leave the body just because you are drunk. It takes a really good whack to make the soul jump ship. Your heart has to stop and your brain has to flat line, meaning no EKG. Your consciousness is embedded in your body. But when your body dies, and is kaput, your soul will release whatever is holding it in and leave your body merge back into whatever dimension it is that the original holographic film that we call heaven exists in.




What does the soul do that the brain does not?
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Last time I checked God created Satan too which means that Satan is also a child of God. That is if there is a Satan which I'm fairly certain there isn't.

I see. Then you're going to be fricking amazed--but not in a good way.




There is no convincing evidence of life after death, and there is plenty of evidence that the mind is mortal.
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If I were you, I wouldn't worry about those who have never heard. You have heard, and now you're responsible for your response.

But your concern is a valid one. Those who have never heard won't be abandoned by God but will be judged by the way they lived their lives.



So there is a double standard.

And what about the people who heard the story from an idiot which made it unbelievable? What if you walk up to native in the woods and tell him "Accept Jesus or go to hell" and then walk away. Is he now condemned if he doesn't become a Christian?

If not, please post the exact words that are necessary and sufficient to make one accountable.
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"All I had to eat all day today was three tuna salad sandwiches, a bowl of Aloo Mutter (potatoes and peas in Indian curry sauce), and enough milk to wash down my vitamin pills. I feel strangely satisfied." - Andrew
--------------------


It's like you've created a new diet! Tuna salad sandwich for breakfast. Tuna Salad Sandwich for Lunch. Tuna Salad Sandwich for Dinner. And for an evening snack a bowl of Aloo Mutter at 8:00 pm. And then right before bed enough milk to wash down your vitamin pills.

The perfect diet! You need to write a book about it!

Art


----------------

To be perfect in my book, there needs to be some bacon in there somewhere. But for all I know Aloo Mutter could be curried bacon or some such.
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Man Catherine you are really focused on the negative.

Art


"That minister must love the Devil - certainly talks about him a lot."
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To be perfect in my book, there needs to be some bacon in there somewhere. But for all I know Aloo Mutter could be curried bacon or some such.
________________________________-

Aloo Mutter -> Curried bacon?

I thought is was a lead in to

Aloo fodda

here I am at camp Granada

(but then again I did live in a very Italian section of Brooklyn for a long time)
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Aloo Mutter -> Curried bacon?

I thought is was a lead in to

Aloo fodda

here I am at camp Granada
--------------

You are evil, ls. I'm already sick and you are making it worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxmWosG2iU

arrete
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You are evil, ls. I'm already sick and you are making it worse.
_______________________

LOL - Here's hoping you're tiptoeing through the tulips in no time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0

(PS Scary, but I actually remember this performance!)
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LOL - Here's hoping you're tiptoeing through the tulips in no time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0

(PS Scary, but I actually remember this performance!)
----------------

Unfortunately, I remember this. had to find someone with a TV to see this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8gloxeHOLk

Yes, totally scary.

arrete
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Aloo Mutter -> Curried bacon?

I thought is was a lead in to

Aloo fodda

here I am at camp Granada ... low


-----------------

I had that record. Also had a few Alvin and the Chipmunks to round out the collection.
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Unfortunately, I remember this. had to find someone with a TV to see this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8gloxeHOLk

Yes, totally scary.

arrete


"...being of sound mind...." -- is that part of the typical wedding vows?
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"...being of sound mind...." -- is that part of the typical wedding vows?
--------------

A necessity in this case. Miss Vicki must have been of unsound mind to marry that sorry specimen.

arrete - at least she was given an out.
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"...being of sound mind...." -- is that part of the typical wedding vows?

If so, it's typically a lie. :-)
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