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After a 2 egg breakfast at the Waffle House this morning.....(with sliced tomato, raisin toast, city ham)....

came home tired - didn't sleep well last night - getting over cold.

Lunch today - 1/2 can of Campbell's Chunky soup...... a few left over tortilla chips...and the Vitamix drink with almond milk, 3 strawberries, 6 blackberries, 3 pieces of carrot, handful of greens, 1/2 banana. Good. Filled me up.

Dinner will be 1/2 a DiGiorno Garden veggie pizza (about 500 calories) with added mushrooms, a roma tomato, some pinto beans.......and some almond milk. Usual Sunday dinner when home.

Chilly today. Started out below 40, got up to mid 50s...cold tonight. Only up to 43 or so tomorrow. Winter is dragging on in Dallas. I'm ready for the 70s. YEah....

think my cold is just about done. caught it at convention in Houston with 200 people.....dang.....second year in a row....too.....


t.
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Pneumonia here--sleeping poorly, too.

bR
scrambled egg & cottage cheese, a few raspberries

LU
homemade cream of cauliflower soup and guacamole, served w/terra root-veggie chips (w/respiratory illness, I always crave salt-)

D
sauteed veggies & sausage w/romesco (Sun basket meal kit)
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Chilly today. Started out below 40, got up to mid 50s...cold tonight. Only up to 43 or so tomorrow. Winter is dragging on in Dallas. I'm ready for the 70s.

Our local weather people are forecasting near freezing temperatures tonite and a high of 47 tomorrow. Then back to freezing nights and cold days.

No matter, I plan to ride my tricycle* everyday. I've got cold/wet weather gear from my Army/surplus dealer days that comes in handy every ten years or so.

Desert (It doesn't rain in the Army, it rains ON the Army.) Dave

*
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/95a3c3ba-25ff-4e9e-bcf2-a80...
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t:

I have to say we never bother with vitamin supplements. Just good food. Our doctor agrees with us.

But GL, whatever.

Vermonter
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Heh, heh! You know you are retired when LUNCH is the most exciting event of the day!


I don't consider that to be bad. Excitement is overrated.



Seattle Pioneer
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"Heh, heh! You know you are retired when LUNCH is the most exciting event of the day! I don't consider that to be bad. Excitement is overrated." - Seattle Pioneer
---------------------------------------


We're going to my MIL's house tonight for a family get together celebrating nephew's birthday. He turns 26 years old today. That's enough excitement for me. They are ordering vegetarian Chinese food. I'll bring some sweet and sour pork I'll cook for myself.

My personal opinion about being a vegetarian is it's a pain in the keister. But to each his own.

Art
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"I have to say we never bother with vitamin supplements. Just good food. Our doctor agrees with us."

*********************************************************

Over the years DW had started on supplements for different things - mostly
related to stomach problems she was having. Then following a fall, a doctor
had her go off of all her medication and supplements to check blood tests
and various pulmonary tests and on and on. She stayed off the supplements
unless her doctors suggested she start them again.

She is starting up on another set of pulmonary therapy sessions next week -
her first sit-down with the folks was today.

Howie52
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Our doctor(s) do not feel supplements are usually needed nor useful.

We are on a few meds for specific things, but otherwise depend on good food and a well balanced diet.

I understand specific things may warrant supplements or meds, but I think too many people wolf down all kinds of vitamins and stuff that are not needed and perhaps just pass on through!

Vermonter
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I understand specific things may warrant supplements or meds, but I think too many people wolf down all kinds of vitamins and stuff that are not needed and perhaps just pass on through!

No big deal to me if they just pass on through.

PSU
multivitamin in the morning since 1902
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PSU:

"multivitamin in the morning since 1902"

Why take them? Why waste the money?

Just wondering...

RV
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Why take them?

I don't always eat a balanced meal every day.

Why waste the money?

I don't consider it a waste but if it is, it's my money to waste.

PSU
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RV asks: Why take them? Why waste the money? on a daily multivitamin supplement that many experts claim is not needed and a waste of money.

Why do farmers spread NPK fertilizer on their fields at planting time. OBVIOUSLY there is N, P, and K in the soil already. The crop will grow without the added fertilizer.

Do farmers test the soil every year?
Do they test the soil on a micro enough scale to only add fertilizer exactly where it's needed?
And, do they only put N where it's needed, K where it's needed, etc?

Do you fertilizer your yard? Do you do the soil tests to determine exactly which nutrient and how much? Or do you just buy what the "nursery" department sells?

I eat a multivitamin everyday for the same reasons. Most of the vitamins may indeed be "luxury consumption", but consuming that ONE vitamin, in which I'm a bit deficient, keeps me more healthy, makes the cost worthwhile.

🙂
ralph


Note that my comments do NOT include or recommend consuming a toxic amount of any vitamin, nutrient, or supplement.
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"I understand specific things may warrant supplements or meds, but I think too many people wolf down all kinds of vitamins and stuff that are not needed and perhaps just pass on through!

No big deal to me if they just pass on through.

PSU
multivitamin in the morning since 1902 "

**************************************************************

Somewhere near a cold mountain lake, a mutant woodchuck family has
a calcium rich diet.

Howie52
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"I understand specific things may warrant supplements or meds, but I think too many people wolf down all kinds of vitamins and stuff that are not needed and perhaps just pass on through!


Most people are guessing. But in their guessing they're probably right since many people have low absorption issues. But then again not all supplements are created equal in terms of efficacy and absorpation. Gut biome issues and such affect absorption as well.

In any case, no need to guess. The blood tells the tale.

I periodically have micronutrient analysis done to check all manner of things. This after an internist with preventative medicine orientation showed me in low range for various things like Vitamin D, Magnesium and high homocystiene (thus a methylation support combo of Vitamin B's etc).
Also, most Americans are way out of healthy range of Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio. Should be ~3:1 or 4:1. Americans run as high as 40+:1 and average something around 20:1 if I recollect. <see the work of Dr Barry Sears and Dr. Terry Wahl's>
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ralph:

"Why do farmers spread NPK fertilizer on their fields at planting time. OBVIOUSLY there is N, P, and K in the soil already. The crop will grow without the added fertilizer."

Yes and no. Most farmers do not waste fertilizer(s) until they know exactly what their soil needs for their crops. Same for people and supplements.

I won't try to convince you not to take stuff, but urge you to remember that some supplements can interfere with prescribed medicines. Be sure your doctor knows what you are taking.

Vermonter
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bagel with butter and cheese
salad from salad bar in office building across the street (various greens, chickpeas, onion, green pepper, cucumber, beets, house dressing, plus one of those little rice-rolled-up-in-grape-leaf things)
m&m's

Hey, the sun came out. It was over 20F. Had to get out there.
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Vermonter says: Most farmers do not waste fertilizer(s) until they know exactly what their soil needs for their crops.

🙂 Yes and no.
Most farmers get a FEW soil tests, often these are several samples from across a field that are combined into ONE sample that are ASSUMED to be representative of the entire field. Then, they fertilize based on those results. For the next few years. BTW, farmers don't get a custom blend of fertilzers, they buy the commercially available combination of NPK that is closest to what the soil analyses recommend.**

There is little about it that is "exactly". 😉

The farmers ASSUME that the results are valid for several years.
And they are.. close enough?

Autonomous equipment, technology, and more and better sensors might improve the "exactly"ness? (Hint... It is improving.)

Be that as it may... WHY do farmers just every year continue to apply fertilizer at the rate the "old, combined" soil test recommended?

You dodged that question?

Here's the same question, reworded (which applies to health care and LBYM, too):
Why don't farmers test soil samples ... every year, with a soil sample every 1 hectare? You know, 30+ soil samples per field, and the farmer has multiple fields?

Here's the LBYM healthcare connection: Why doesn't insurance routinely, say every 3-months, pay for mineral/vitamin/supplement deficiency tests for people so that we know exactly which deficiencies we have? Hint: it's the same reason farmers do the fewest possible soil samples, and use the results of one set of soil samples for multiple years...

If health insurance won't pay, why don't individuals just pay out of pocket for their own vitamin/mineral/supplement assays? At least once per year, if not every three months? LOL

Why, instead, do individuals just take a multivitamin/mineral/ supplement?

Are you gonna dodge the questions?
🙂
ralph is SO THANKFUL that his income doesn't make him choose between taking some supplements and going downhill snow skiing a couple times per season. I can do BOTH! And still be LBYM! Yay me! 😀. I live in Central Texas, so traveling to ski is not trivial? LOLOL.

Ralph personally believes the supplements make it physically POSSIBLE to do the downhill snow skiing. 😀 Without the supplements, I MIGHT be physically unable, and since I can LBYM afford the supplements, I plan to keep taking them!

Hmmmm... Why did the USDA come up with a "recommended daily allowance"? Why doesn't the USDA recommend quarterly* assays and individual prescribed dosages of SPECIFIC nutrients for each individual?

*Daily would be more "exactly" perfect.

** It's possible that the big industrial farm corporations have their own soil testing facilities, and apply custom blends of fertilzers... Technology IS being used to this end?
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rainphakr:

"Be that as it may... WHY do farmers just every year continue to apply fertilizer at the rate the "old, combined" soil test recommended? You dodged that question?"

Do you know for a fact that that's true? Are you a farmer?

My point was that the farmers I know apply fertilizer and do other things to help them ensure the best results they can get from their land. They can't afford not to do that. And in our state they are also working very hard to minimize run-off of extra fertilizers and phosphates into rivers and streams, to reduce algae and other problems.

Vermonter
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I was listening to an old podcast on “Fat Burning Man” recently about how depleted our soils are. (Funny: autocorrect changed “soils” to “souls.” Also true...).

One of the big things most of us are missing in our diets is apparently magnesium.


Here’s some info:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-an...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221451411...


Also mentioned in that podcast was a study of prisoners who were supplemented with Omega-3 and other vitamins. Incidents of violence declined fairly significantly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/20...

https://www.newsmax.com/t/health/article/684171/177

I used to kind of feel like you, I eat a good diet so I don’t need supplements, but I’ve added a multivitamin with minerals and fish oil capsules to my life.
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"Do you know for a fact that that's true? Are you a farmer?" retired vermonter


What I've come to realize about people is that you can't get humans to come to a consensus on pretty much anything in this life. If I had to guess about farmers and fertilizers I'd say "some do and some don't." That pretty much describes everything humans do. There is no such thing as "all people believe thus and so" or "all farmers use fertilizers" or all farmers do this or that.

It applies to abortion, peanut butter, soy milk and nut butters, sex, global warming, abortion, and pretty much everything else in this life.

And never assume that the person you are talking to out and about thinks like you do about pretty much anything. They probably don't.

Art
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The point rainphakr is making is that a farmer is not testing enough to be sure every nutrient is in balance.

To relate that back to vitamins is that people don't track their vitamin intake at a high frequency. To demonstrate that point, I would ask you, Vermonter, if you keep a journal or spreadsheet of every important vitamin and minerals you ingest every day. Do you add up the total vitamin C or B6? What about iron or manganese in your food? Are you short on some days depend of the food you eat? Without very detailed tracking, you can't be sure. I can see the nutrition label on some of my foods. I never add up all the vitamins and minerals. You can't just say I eat a balanced diet so I must be getting every thing. For me, a multivitamin is cheap insurance for days I don't eat as well as I should. Yesterday was pizza for dinner. I doubt that was a well-balanced food.

PSU
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"Be that as it may... WHY do farmers just every year continue to apply fertilizer at the rate the "old, combined" soil test recommended?"

******************************************************

Likely the costs/efforts of sampling are greater than the potential harm done
to the fields/livestock.

However, the lab-service extensions at most universities and farm bureaus
are pretty busy during the spring and through the beginnings of summer.

Howie52
Just sayin - there appears to be a fair amount of testing - though I cannot
comment on the effectiveness of sampling routines and their validity.

Kind of like meteorological data - modified data and the reasons behind the
modifications made tend to the opaque side.
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Nope, not a farmer - thank the ruler of the universe!
My family was, and I got some cousins who farm today.

I'm educated in animal systems and worked in ag research in the 1990s to 2002. I interacted with farmers and ranchers in a effort to advance the concepts of "reducing runoff pollution", maintain and improve water quality, soil quality, etc.

Many farmers just ask the local farm bureau, county extension agent "how much fertilzers do I apply for X crop", then apply that amount. Many times a soil analysis was based on a sample of soil aggregated from many samples.

Farmers DO NOT apply more than that, because they want to keep their costs as LOW as possible. You know, so they can make a profit.

It would be useful to have multiple soil samples each, but Soil tests are an expense. They can be expensive, especially if there are more than one. The farmers ASSUME (with some reasonableness) that the recommended fertilzers application is "good enough". (The big corporate farms may do soil analyses each year?)

To transfer that concept to LBYM, how often should a person be tested for nutrient deficiencies? Which deficiencies? These tests are also an "expense" that neither insurance companies nor individuals want to just pay. So, we consult the USDA RDA and move forward.

We have reactive medicine, not proactive medicine.

Farmers apply fertilizer to get the healthiest plants possible.
Plants do not use all the fertilizer that's applied. They really use best, the fertilizer that is most limited. NPK are usually the most limited macro nutrients. Excess gets lost in the soil, The farmer attempts to apply "just enough".

My cells don't use all the "fertilizer" I supplement with, either. Each cell only uses that supplement it needs. My supplement goal is to supply my cells with the nutrient that is most limiting their function/health. I also attempt to apply "just enough" using the USDA RDA as a guide.

Where there is no RDA, I use a scientific best guess (SWAG).

🙂
ralph
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Hey - balloons!! Happy Fooliversary!
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if you keep a journal or spreadsheet of every important vitamin and minerals you ingest every day

I've done this (& assuming my sources had accurate vitamin & mineral counts-). I was significantly deficient in several, especially potassium, magnesium & vitamin D (I avoid processed foods w/supplements like milk & stuff made of wheat flour).

I take a multi every other day & daily D3, K2, magnesium, potassium, CoQ10, fish oil.
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