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Apparently, there is a document among the "withheld" papers that purports to be an FBI field interview with a "witness" who claimed to have seen someone with McVeigh just prior to the crime. That "someone" (not the "witness") is, presumably, the "John Doe No. 2" that we heard about and saw sketches of, but who the prosecutors ultimately concluded didn't exist and who McVeigh has denied existed.

Whoever this "witness" was--presumably just an ordinary citizen--needs to be brought forward and have his/her story told and credibility tested before McVeigh is executed. Otherwise, the media will have a field day with it, starting immediately after McVeigh assumes room temperature. And that media frenzy will do no good for anybody--not the justice system nor the administration nor any of us. And the situation will be used to support arguments against capital punishment, per se. So a stay needs to be ordered, and if the "witness" turns out to have credibility, maybe even a new trial for McVeigh. Not that he isn't guilty, but he has to be convicted on the basis of all the evidence.

I don't actually give a rip about McVeigh, but I do care about the integrity of the judicial and law enforcement systems. Ironically, some sentiment along the same lines was what we are told motivated McVeigh. If he is put down under circumstances that lead to years and years of rehashing and speculating about certain details, it will only assist him in making his point.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010605/ts/mcveigh_filing_dc_2.html

/s/ S.T.
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"Should McVeigh get a stay?"

==============================

Oh, I suppose he should S.T........not that he deserves it. Let the system play out a little more. After all, nearly all of these death penalty cases get further reviews (and should). If it wasn't the FBI paperwork safu it would have been something else anyway.

I do happen to believe that there should have been no requirement on behalf of the F.B.I. to furnish the Mcveigh defense team with every single page of their investigation in the first place. I'm not sure how this mutual disclosure works at the Federal level but the defense may have had some mandate to furnish the results of their investigation to the prosecution. If so, I'll bet they committed plenty of omissions as well. If these omissions existed I'll bet the news media would not have reported on them.

Those brilliant men that conceived of the Constitution must be rolling over in their graves.

bs5
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Actually, back when everyone was worried about the recounts in FLA., the same things were being said.

"If they don't, the media will make a big deal out of it and it'll be in the courts for years. It'll cause havok and terror and the whole world will see the US as a 3rd world country."

Someone posted that this wouldn't happen and two weeks later it would all be forgotten.

I couldn't bring myself to believe it at the time, but that's exactly what happened. (besides, a recount was finally done and Bush would have won anyways- maybe that has something to do with the story's death.)

But, being as much of an opportunist as I am, I'd like to say that, "in two weeks after the execution, it will leave the minds of the public just like the election did."

just my .02 cents.

k



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Well, the trial judge agrees with you, khalou, and he has access to the record. So his judgment is deserving of some serious respect. But the Tenth Circuit and Supreme Court will get a look at it, and I will still bet on a stay being issued.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010606/aponline140014_000.htm

Maybe those of us (and maybe you're one of "us") who were around when Lee Harvey Oswald was summarily "executed" just have a hunger for more details. Granted, McVeigh has written a book (which nobody wants to buy or read)--the kind of book we all wish Oswald would have written (and which we all would have dismissed and forgotten). But then all those careers that have been made out of hunting for the perp on the grassy knoll would never have existed. We'll see . . .

/s/ S.T.

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----"But the Tenth Circuit and Supreme Court will get a look at it,and i will still bet on a stay being issued."----------
________________________________________________________________________
I doubt it,nor do i believe a stay is in order according to your arguments.----At any rate we will know by Monday.------Dont worry,those hungry for a buck and/or attention will keep speculation on a conspiracy open for a long time.
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I doubt it,nor do i believe a stay is in order according to your arguments.----

I have limited myself to Foolish arguments here, for the sake of space and in the interests of eliciting dialogue. I would have a whole new set of arguments if I were representing McVeigh in the appellate courts, a different forum which function in accordance with different rules and concepts. But I'm glad I'm not having to do that. What are your arguments, Delighted?

/s/ S.T.
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Springtex...

I did not think of this. I figured, law or no law, we all hate this guy, and NO judge will have the nads to give him a stay.

But, you make perfect sense. According to the letter of the law, he may be entitled to it.

This guy is no idiot. He wants to expose gov't stupidity until he dies. Looks like us and the press may be his allies unfortunatley.

USE THE FORCE!!! JEDIKNIGHT
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Guess that question is moot now.---Get ready for the storm of second guessing from those that want to write books,get on talk shows etc..
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Again I say, going out on a limb perhaps, that "that ain't gonna happen."

k

(Of course, I also would have bet the farm that the Lakers would sweep Philly!)
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Concerning John Doe #2, if McVeigh hasn't spilled his guts by now than I don't believe he ever will. Time to pull out all the stops and let justice prevail. It's all just too damn bad.

After all, here's a guy who openly declared war on the government of the United States. Time to challenge the legal precedent that would mandate that the Prosecution and FBI furnish all their intelligence to the enemy (McVeigh defense). Big deal, so the F.B.I. didn't give those lazy defense lawyers enough paperwork. They got more than they deserved.

The media tried their darndest to scapegoat the FBI for the paperwork snafu. I suppose there can always be a legal argument. The way I understand it, the mandate resulted from caselaw decided by an activist Judge in the first place. I still say the framers of the Constitution would roll over in their graves if they knew what has happening to that document.

If the government has to show their cards to the likes of McVeigh then why not hand over the keys to the pentagon to Muhammer Kadaffy.

What a croc.

bs5 (sputtering)



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It's hard to disagree with you at this point, BS5. From this account:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20010610/1018258.asp

it would appear that McVeigh is sticking to his story to the end.

I had never heard anything about his wife in all this, though. She appears to have known about the plan. So why hasn't she been charged?

I will go on record with this view: McVeigh had a valid grievance--the Waco and Ruby Ridge debacles, where innocent people got killed because the Clinton/Reno gang set out, in effect, to terrorize and villainize people they couldn't stand, i.e., people with religious and/or political views they considered "extreme". If Clinton/Reno's actions were legitimate, then I have a list I'm going to send to George W. Of course, he would disregard any such list, because he, unlike Clinton/Reno, is a noble and just leader of all the people.

Having thus validated McVeigh's "grievance" I must part with him on his chosen expression of protest, which was, of course, a heinous crime, not justifiable under any rationale. And there is a price that must be paid. And for future reference (future would-be McVeighs), I really doubt that his chosen expression of protest gained any net support for his "grievance"--in fact I'm sure it lessened and detracted from such support.

So he--and all the victims--would have been so much better off had he simply written a book. Or become a Fool.

/s/ S.T.
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Timmy even got a letter from a woman who said she would have his baby if he could somehow get his sperm smuggled out of prison," said his father, Bill McVeigh. "She even said her boyfriend told her it was OK.

BUFFALO NEWS (Same link as BS5)

Well... once again I have not seen and heard everything.

USE THE FORCE!!! JEDIKNIGHT

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I had never heard anything about his wife in all this, though. She appears to have known about the plan. So why hasn't she been charged? (S.T.)
=================================

I believe you question arises from the article you cited from The Buffalo News. Here is the quote:

<<McVeigh's recent letters to The News definitively restated that he, Terry Nichols, Michael Fortier and his wife, Lori, were the only people aware of the bombing before it occurred.

"The three people who knew something were Mike, Lori and Terry," McVeigh said. "They all knew most details. . . . No one knew them all but me.>>
(The Buffalo News)

As my memory serves me, the wife McVeigh refers to is that of Michael Fortier's spouse, Lori. I thought they both cooperated with the government and received a deal. I don't recall that McVeigh was ever married.

bs5




<

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<<the wife McVeigh refers to is that of Michael Fortier's spouse, Lori.>>--BS5

Ah, so.

/s/ S.T.
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As predicted, McVeigh has not even completely assumed room temperature yet, and the Euros are out in full force condemning the US for its "barbaric" execution policies:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/06/11/mcveigh.reax

Isn't that a slap in the face, Jedi? Since when do a bunch of Euros have any right to moralize against the United States of America?

/s/ S.T.
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