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No. of Recommendations: 11
You probably saw a news story this weekend about the delay in determining the Social Security COLA due to the gov't shutdown. That alone wouldn't be so bad but it will snowball as Medicare can't set the Part B premium, insurance companies can't set Medicare supplement premiums until they know what Medicare changes, IRS can't set tax brackets, standard deductions, etc for 2014, most pensions can't set their COLA's.

God, don't you love the 535 idiots in Congress who are still collecting their paychecks for not doing their job. Well, actually they are doing something. The House keeps passing individual spending bills while at the same time refusing to touch the debt ceiling. So once more they are spending the money but refusing to pay the bills when they come in.

Meanwhile about 30 super idiots say it's no big deal if the country doesn't pay it's bills. Oh for the days when bankruptcy was a stigma you never got over. But now we've gone from saying it's fine for an individual to just walk away from their debts to saying it's fine for the whole country to do it.

My late parents were both registered Republicans, but they'd run as far from this current version of the party as they could.
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No. of Recommendations: 8
Meanwhile about 30 super idiots say it's no big deal if the country doesn't pay it's bills. Oh for the days when bankruptcy was a stigma you never got over. But now we've gone from saying it's fine for an individual to just walk away from their debts to saying it's fine for the whole country to do it."

---

The country takes in 2.5 trillion a year in taxes.....that's over 180 billion a month in taxes

Interest on the national debt, at the Bernanke bargain basement levels of 0.1% or so...is so small that regular tax collections will more than pay for:


1) every dime owed on the debt

2) Every dime needed to pay SS and Medicare and Veterans benefits.

3) even pay Congress for the job they are not doing.


There is no 'crisis' other than WAshington is addicted to bloat and spending.

Only 15% of the gov't is actually shut down....and of the 85% working, about 5% are working to provide maximum pain - ie, erecting Barrycades on open access malls, removing the handles off drinking fountains at national parks, getting in the way of pictures at Yellowstone National park by assembling every hour and 10 minutes when Old Faithful goes off, keeping people off state highways, shutting down STATE parks, etc.

we could fire all of them PERMANENTLY with no ill effects. 5% saved instantly. And SHOULD

We got more money coming in each month fund pay the debt.

It's all a S C A M .....


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
You probably saw a news story this weekend about the delay in determining the Social Security COLA due to the gov't shutdown.

I did see an article saying that the S.S.COLA for 2014 would be 1.5 %.

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/retirement/social-security...
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No. of Recommendations: 0
You probably saw a news story this weekend about the delay in determining the Social Security COLA due to the gov't shutdown.

I did see an article saying that the S.S.COLA for 2014 would be 1.5 %.


Well, no. You saw an article citing an organization that is not involved in the process saying that it would be 1.5%. The missing piece of information is the third quarter index #. Since it's usually mid-October when the COLA is announced, you can figure the official announcement should come a couple of weeks after the shutdown is over.

It could be that everyone involved in the process was deemed essential, but I doubt it since there probably would have been statements to that effect.

Benefit calculations are pretty easy. There's a lot that needs to be done on the tax side, but the immediate stuff is getting withholding guidance updated and issued in time for payroll processors to be ready for January paychecks. Hot on its heels are the excise tax adjustments, since those returns are quarterly. Gotta make sure we're collecting the right amount on arrows.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Kaye Thomas reported the 2014 brackets, standard deductions, personal exemptions and several other CPI in Sep. because under current law they are based on the August CPI level released BLS early in Sep. see www.fairmark.com .
Quite possibly the SS COLA uses the same figure. Federal retirement COLAs use a different month of the year.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I stand corrected on the SS COLA. As a retired accountant/finance type who doesn't receive SS, my only concern is with the COLA is that it is non-zero.

A more major concern is whether the retirees are paid next month.

Also, will the IRS have the resources to cover new material on the tests tax volunteers will take this year. For the last two years the test was based on TY2011 due in 2012.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Also, will the IRS have the resources to cover new material on the tests tax volunteers will take this year.

The inflation adjustments being held up don't affect TY 2013, and I'm not aware of anything in the legislative works that would affect TY 2013. There really isn't much change from 2012. By now they should have the training in the can.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool
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No. of Recommendations: 3
"You probably saw a news story this weekend about the delay in determining the Social Security COLA due to the gov't shutdown."


Owe-bama knows which side of the bread is buttered.

He isn't stupid enough to delay the SS increases...and I'm sure the folks working on this are 'eseential'.

It's nothing but more vitriol and threats from the owe-bama Spite House.

Any administration that goes around erecting Barry-cades on open air monuments, pays people to take the handles off drinking fountains so no one can use them, have 20 people assemble in front of Old Faithful to ruin any pictures taken every hour and ten minutes..... is just plain EVIL.

the sociopath in the Spite House doesn't even deserve your ear for 8 seconds of sound bite.

next, he'll be telling you planes will be falling out of the sky, your TV satellite service will stop working, and he'll turn off the internet.


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Meanwhile about 30 super idiots say it's no big deal if the country doesn't pay it's bills.

“Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself.”
? Harry S. Truman
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No. of Recommendations: 0
"Meanwhile about 30 super idiots say it's no big deal if the country doesn't pay it's bills."

The only bill the country has to pay to avoid a calamity is the interest on the national debt, ie, bond interest.

There is more than enough income to pay all that, plus all SS, Medicare, Veterans benefits...and more....

We take in 180 billion a month in taxes....2.6 trillion a year in taxes....that hasn't stopped.

It's just the bloat doesn't get funded.

They'll have to wait a week or two.


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 4
QUOTATION OF THE DAY

"It's very, very serious. Republicans have to understand we have lost this battle, as I predicted weeks ago, that we would not be able to win because we were demanding something that was not achievable."

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN, Republican of Arizona, on the inability of the House of Representatives to move forward on a path to reopen the government and extend the Treasury's borrowing authority.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Since Obama wasn't willing to agree to substantial cuts in spending, the correct course of action was probably to allow the default to take place, and to continue until agreement was reached.



After all, when you have an entity engaging in a long and persistant pattern of deficit spending and abuse of credit, it's a poor choice to apply for yet more credit.

The idea of Obama stamping his foot and holding his breath until he gets yet more credit authority is, of course, absurd.




Seattle Pioneer
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No. of Recommendations: 0
QUOTATION OF THE DAY

"We fought the good fight. We just didn't win."

SPEAKER JOHN A. BOEHNER, on the fiscal standoff.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
The Republican Surrender

After inflicting enormous damage, the House wins virtually nothing and gives up. More...


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/17/opinion/the-republican-sur...
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No. of Recommendations: 2
It's a sad day for retirees when every day of 'bond buying' is merely chopping the 'value' of your dollar. Devaluing it's purchasing power.

That's necessary since interest rates are at ZERO already, killing retirees living off interest from bonds and CDs.

A double whammy courtesy of Obama and his dysfunctional economic plan and of course, Obamakare - which has taken a point of economic growth with a lot more pain to come.

Not only did Obama get a blank check to ratchet up spending once again, he and his ilk rammed through a federal pay raise! including of course, all the congress men/women and their staff and the nearly 2 million other 'federal workers' ...most of whom we didn't even miss while they wre 'furloughed'.

Now, retirees face a bleak future with SS and Medicare on an unsustainable path, with 17 trillion in debt ($123,5000 for every worker in the country)......and...

not far off, interest rates will climb once again, and all the tax money will be going just to pay the interest on the 20 trillion that Obama will rack up before he leaves office.

Really really sad.

As to those still working....you're screwed. You'll have 80% tax rates, and your standard of living will be half of what it is today in 30 years. If our system lasts that long.


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
" After inflicting enormous damage, the House wins virtually nothing and gives up. More..."


I think we all saw what a petty, sociopathic, masochist Obama was......and how his 'promise' to 'work across the isle' was nothing but LIES LIES and more LIES.


I think the dems will suffer massively from this.

Worse, obama's policies are dooming the country to a 28 hour workweek, and more poverty for all. The 'Food Stamp President' for sure, and he proves it week after week.


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 27
Enough already!

Reading Telegraph's vituperative rants emphasizes for me how difficult it must be for the President and other reasonable congressmen and senators to work on the country's problems.

As for "lies" lies lies in capital letters....

The President had given warning long ago he would not deal with Republican terrorism, (although he didn't use those words,) if they were once again going to black mail the country. And now, because he stood his ground, Telegraph is complaining about campaign lies?

Take a little blame for the malicious behavior of the Right wing, Telegraph. How can you support such destructive behavior with a straight face?

We all know that Boehner (using a new and sneaky privilege of controlling the call to vote) could have called a vote on a clear Debt ceiling days ago, but refused because he would lose, and lose face.

And if you don't believe anything I say, try comforting yourself with the Republicans recent showing in the Polls, before you boast the "dems will suffer massively for this"
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No. of Recommendations: 4
"How can you support such destructive behavior with a straight face? "

Yes, the RINO's need to be voted out of office. they caved. Too many 'liberal' people who run for office under the republican name.

We need to reform entitlements.

We need to reform the tax system.

We need to cut the government bloat and wellfare state, but the Democrat Ninnies won't do any of it, and want MORE spending and MORE taxes........

Sorry, the Tea Party should have held out till Obama caved.

The Congress has the power of the purse. They should exercise it.

You need to strangle the monster that is the government


t.
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No. of Recommendations: 6
The frequent use of the term RINO for anyone who dares think for himself or put country ahead of party is one of the reasons Republicans find themselves in this fix.

John McCain said it right in an interview the other day. When asked his feelings about the Florida congressman who had called him an "agent for Al Quiada", McCain replied:

"Sometimes these things are said with malice, but when you have no brains I don't think it's malicious."

Mr. Florida congressman, your party's 2008 candidate for president just called you an idiot.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"And if you don't believe anything I say, try comforting yourself with the Republicans recent showing in the Polls, before you boast the "dems will suffer massively for this" "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

With the debt exploding, everyone will suffer eventually.

The problem you run into when you consider another party as an enemy is
that you think you win when the country as whole may be losing.

Howie52
When you fail to listen to what a large portion of the population is saying, you fail to govern - whether you are Republican or Democrat.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Enough already!

Reading Telegraph's vituperative rants...


Just clicked on the No Rant button.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
<<The President had given warning long ago he would not deal with Republican terrorism, (although he didn't use those words,) if they were once again going to black mail the country. And now, because he stood his ground, Telegraph is complaining about campaign lies?
>>


Dear me! You mean there is POLITICS going on in Washington DC?


The Congress has no OBLIGATION to extend the debt limit. The President has no OBLIGATION to bargain over an extension.

All the actors are properly accountable for the actions they take.

In short, it's disingenuous to accuse Republicans of blackmail. It was a political fight resolved by political means.



Seattle Pioneer
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No. of Recommendations: 2
With the debt exploding, everyone will suffer eventually.

Howie52


What ypou say may have merit. Maybe we should raise taxes, back to (say) the tax rates during the Reagan terms.

Count No'Count
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"What ypou say may have merit. Maybe we should raise taxes, back to (say) the tax rates during the Reagan terms.

Count No'Count "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I suspect you will be looking at higher taxes than the past. And I
suspect the economic growth will slow dramatically. And I
suspect the unemployment problems we have now across the board
and across the western world will become more severe.
Unless something extraordinary happens.

The driver for the world-wide economic boom - and the reduction in
world-wide poverty has been the demand for goods and services
extending from the overall population growth coming out of the
second world war - driven largely by the western and eastern
economies and by the increased communication - i.e. trade throughout
the world triggered to no small degree by the war. The restriction
of economic growth imposed by the failed communist experiments and the
cold war disappeared - and for a while growth was explosive.

Now growth has stalled - and the current power blocks have no
clue about re-starting economic growth. I am not certain they desire
economic growth - either within the US or in the world.
The Reagan policies all require a vibrant economy - and they also
encouraged a vibrant economy. The logic being that if economic
growth is kept high, the overall wealth of the population would rise.
If the wealth rises, poverty would decline. This has turned out to
be largely true - as worldwide poverty has been reduced remarkably.

The underlying problem is that large economies tend to have
cyclical growth. Attempting to force continual "growth" requires
either periods of "irrational exuberance" or encouraging
growth in sectors - i.e. creating bubbles in the economy.
These approaches tend to fail. The world had a short period where
there was a positive cycle in many sectors simultaneously in the mid
2000s. And cycles do not last forever. When cycles coincide - the top
is lovely. The bottom is hell. The bottom was 2009 - 2010.
And to minimize life in hell - the money tap was opened.
Now if money is put to uses that generate more wealth, a positive
cycle is started again ---- in theory. However, if money is directed
poorly - well things do not improve so much.
When money is artificially created and is not used to create
a higher taxable base, the wealth cycle is stopped. So, you have a
choice - increase taxes and restrict growth - or put money created into
areas that generate economic growth which then generates tax dollars.
If you fail to generate the higher tax revenues from growth in the economy - you will either have to increase taxes - and suffer.
Or you will delay increasing taxes and eventually drive interest rates
sky high. Generally, a politician can outlive this problem - but the
next poor sap ----- will be saddled with a whole lot of poorer saps.

We are very likely to become those poorer saps.

Howie52
This is my theory of economic turmoil - which may be full of the proverbial building blocks of horsepuckies.
However, since the hockey season has started up and I will be heading
to a local arena to see minor league hockey again in a week or so, I
trust and hope that the world does not end as we know it this week.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Howie: The driver for the world-wide economic boom - and the reduction in world-wide poverty has been the demand for goods and services extending from the overall population growth coming out of the
second world war - driven largely by the western and eastern
economies and by the increased communication - i.e. trade throughout
the world triggered to no small degree by the war. The restriction
of economic growth imposed by the failed communist experiments and the
cold war disappeared - and for a while growth was explosive.


Very impressive. Would you kindly refer us to your scholarly paper (peer reviewed) supporting these claims? Because they sound like pure BS.

I suspect the cold war provided the stimulus for a lot of the growth you attribute to WW II.

Count No'Count
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No. of Recommendations: 4
"I suspect the cold war provided the stimulus for a lot of the growth you attribute to WW II.

Count No'Count "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If the Cold War had provided stimulus for growth, there would have been
a reduction in poverty during the height of the "non-conflict"
rather than during the end of the period.
I really think the Cold War retarded growth - as it retarded
free movement of goods and services. Artificially encouraged
militarization in regions where funding for clean water, sewage treatment and development of infrastructure and such would have
actually encouraged independence in those regions.

"Would you kindly refer us to your scholarly paper (peer reviewed) supporting these claims? Because they sound like pure BS."

I am not stating anything more than my opinion.
It quite well be complete rubbish.
But this some of my view of the world - based on what I have read
what I have seen, and why own view of how people behave.

You do not have to agree.
You can believe whatever you like.
If you care to point out differences - feel free.
I do not claim to know - and if someone presents facts or suggests
other approaches I am happy to read , think and evaluate based on
my background and knowledge - and am happy to read other sources to
consider different ideas.

Howie52
I find that there are quite enough posters who claim to know what
is correct and how others must think, behave, believe and live.
I don't.
And I don't ever intend to become one.
But I am happy to tell folks what I think and what I believe.
Folks have their right to choose.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"Enough already!

Reading Telegraph's vituperative rants..."


You guys and gals wouldn't have anything to comment on if tele wasn't around.

Usually there is about 1 post a month on this board. See? Tele shows up and there are 10 posts in 2 days.

If I go away, you go back to boredom and no posts.



t.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
"And to minimize life in hell - the money tap was opened.
Now if money is put to uses that generate more wealth, a positive
cycle is started again ---- in theory. However, if money is directed
poorly - well things do not improve so much."

Yepper, the dems opened the taps to the tune of a TRILLION in stimulus porkulus, and most of it was spend poorly. Wasted boondoggles in 'greenie energy' that just enriched the donors and bundlers for Obama's campaign cash raising machine, which itself is the most wasteful way to blow money.

Obama and his progressive drones believe in the Krugman theory of broken windows. That is, if you pay someone to go out and break a thousand windows, it 'stimulates' the economy because now all those people need to replace the windows. Of course, in reality, all those folks had to spend money or borrow money to pay someone to fix them, leaving them with less resources to spend elsewhere or invest in the business, or they filed an insurance claim and their rates go up, the insurance companies 'paid out' but now have less reserves - and the cash disappears from the 'plus side' of every ledger. There is no money fairy

------





"When money is artificially created and is not used to create
a higher taxable base, the wealth cycle is stopped."


Well, it is just slowed. Money 'created' just devalues the dollar. It lowers interest rates, killing seniors and others living off the interest on their savings. It kills those trying to save for retirement as their funds barely grow with zero percent interest rates. It also will lead to a giant rise in interest rates in the future. It will also lead to massive inflation in the future to bring the dollar back into balance.

-------





"So, you have a choice - increase taxes and restrict growth - or put money created into reas that generate economic growth which then generates tax dollars."

Well, the progressive democrats are doing both at the same time. More taxes and even more taxes. ObamaKare taxes. Penalties on 'high cost' health policies. "Socialized" rates so the young subsidize the older folks. (ie, taxes on the young). Hidden Obama taxes (21 in the ObamaKare bill, right?). The 'ethanol' tax where you subsidize the fat cat agri business folks 75c/gallon, and you pay 50% to 100% more for food using corn, like chicken, corn products, beef, dairy.......

Now Obama wants another trillion in taxes......ever more taxes......

Just wait till the average family starts paying that $3000-$4000 per family for the carbon taxes Al Gore and his ilk want.

------



"If you fail to generate the higher tax revenues from growth in the economy - you will either have to increase taxes - and suffer.
Or you will delay increasing taxes and eventually drive interest rates
sky high. "


Haven't you ever heard of SPEND LESS?


--------





"We are very likely to become those poorer saps. "


"We" already are. The standard of living drops year after year. The average disposable income drops year after year. The average work week is dropping in hours paid. The real unemployment is over 15%. the boomers are being forced to retire early due to a rotten economy under the 'progressives'. There are more folks on food stamps than ever before, by tens of millions.

worse, Obamakare will make tens of millions work less so they get the subsidies. Why make over $60,000 as family when it will cost you $13000 in subsidies? Better to make $56,000 and get a free $13000 a year subsidy than make $66,000 and get no subsidy!......It will be the era of low income as 'desirable' to qualify for 'free' everything from the government. Why work hard when the folks who don't work as hard come out ahead?



t.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Howie: If the Cold War had provided stimulus for growth, there would have been a reduction in poverty during the height of the "non-conflict" rather than during the end of the period. I really think the Cold War retarded growth - as it retarded free movement of goods and services. Artificially encouraged militarization in regions where funding for clean water, sewage treatment and development of infrastructure and such would have actually encouraged independence in those regions.

There was a reduction of poverty in the 50's and 60's. The frantic build-up of military prowess provided employment on a grand scale, With the end of the cold war, the stimulus (military buld-up) slowed. With the "Peace Dividend, the number of military-based companies shrunk, aong with the associated payroll.

That, along with the increased capabiity to export jobs to third world countries stunted job growth in the US. At first it was only the lowest level of employment that was hit, but by now we export all levels of jobs, from manufacturing to engineering, and more.

It's an overall good that countries in southeast Asia and Latin America are finally joining the technology era. Too bad we (0ur masters) can't keep up with them.

Count No'Count
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CnC:"There was a reduction of poverty in the 50's and 60's."

The 1950s was fueled by the simnple FACT that the manufacturing base of the US wasn't destroyed in WW2 and we simply turned that to producing consumer goods, plus....

we had a great base of HARD WORKING people after WW2 - the 'greatest generation' who WORKED HARD and produced.

Of course, poverty plummeted as everyone pursued the American Dream and lived within their means. Almost no one 'lived on credit.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. It was a great time.

-----


" The frantic build-up of military prowess provided employment on a grand scale, With the end of the cold war, the stimulus (military buld-up) slowed. "


The cold war didn't end till Reagan, right ? In the 1980s.

You forgot the oil shocks and depressions of 1966 and the 1970s...several of them!......

And the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

We had 40% stock market drops, high unemployment in the 70s....and the Cold War was still raging with the Soviets....

You need a history refresher.

The War on Poverty began with the progressive Johnson, who also screwed up the Vietnam War.....badly...... got suckered into it by business interests and the Catholic church out to preserve 'the south' against those godless commies.

Once the War on Poverty started we spend a trillion dollars...and poverty has increased year after year thanks to that program. It took away personal responsibility and made folks dependent upon government handouts.

--------



CnC:" With the "Peace Dividend, the number of military-based companies shrunk, aong with the associated payroll."

The Cold War didn't end till Reagan ended it with a spending binge on Star Wars and everything else. We outspend the russians. They collapsed then. We will in 20 years.

It was the invention of the PC and software that spurred what happened in the 1990s....and much of that was spun out of the development of technology during the Cold War...


--------


Cnc:"That, along with the increased capability to export jobs to third world countries stunted job growth in the US."


Heh heh...heard that so many times and that is so wrong...first it was Japan is going to steal all our jobs....they could build transitor radios and TV sets cheaper than we could...... look at them now....a country in ruins financially.....a society slowly bleeding with too many elderly and too few young.....

What has caused lots of jobs to flee.....high energy prices due to oil shock and NATURAL GAS shortages during the 1970s. NG hit $15/mcf or 4-5 times the current price. Energy intensive business fled quickly to cheaper locations. Steel, plastics, foundries, etc. that was the start....

then, of course, regulation here helped cause another bunch of companies to flee..that and strong unions with gold plated benefits and union work rules that bloated payrolls and impeded productivity gains. Why fight obstinate unions? Move the jobs overseas

-----







CnC:" At first it was only the lowest level of employment that was hit, but by now we export all levels of jobs, from manufacturing to engineering, and more."

Wrong..first it was energy intensive business followed by 'the electronics' assembly business...... then call centers and manual labor jobs like equipment assembly and appliances.

High union labor was always a contributing factor.
-------



Cnc:"It's an overall good that countries in southeast Asia and Latin America are finally joining the technology era. Too bad we (0ur masters) can't keep up with them."

Yep, and there's a billion Chinese who want to own a car and have a refrigerator and an air conditioner and a big TV set....and will....if they have their way.


The US standard of living will decline as we borrow ourselves into financial health.

The sound economies are ones where people SAVE and the government doesn't borrow. Think China and India.

Don't think Europe and the US.



t.
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"There was a reduction of poverty in the 50's and 60's. "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The reduction at that time can be assigned to the Marshall Plan and
rebuild from WW II - The world-wide impact from the Cold War never
seemed to touch the people - with a for-instance Egypt - who had a
build-up of the military - with little else to be seen other than
the power elite. The far-east saw massive poverty among the masses.
There were spots of improvements ----- mainly near military bases
involved in the "less cold" portions of the Cold War.
How much of a reduction in poverty was seen in sub-Saharan Africa
based on the influx of funds from the Soviets or the Western
Powers?

There was development inside the US - and I agree a fairly good
portion was the result of the military-industrial complex
growth. Certainly we had government funds (read our taxes)
supporting this sector and much of what we see as recent
drivers of economic growth today - highway infrastructure, communication satellites, GPS mapping, laser technology, and a
large part of the healthcare biological and specialty chemical
markets came from that original seed-money source (some may well
argue this list - others will add a bunch more). But this helped
Western powers and the Soviet Block - again not everyone in either
case though more of the people saw growth in the west than in the
east - again this based upon my observations during travels.

The real reduction in poverty world-wide has come from the
end of the Cold War - where a greater stability has allowed
industrial growth to expand into other areas - and where
freer trade has allowed goods - and services to be exchanged
with less risk. More funds flowing into education have
improved the ability of work-forces. Capital availability
has allowed investment into areas which might have been
limited to airfields and weapons only a few decades past.
And the main areas which was developed out of the Cold
War - technology and communications - allowed the
integration of industrial corporations world-wide.

"It's an overall good that countries in southeast Asia and Latin America are finally joining the technology era. Too bad we (0ur masters) can't keep up with them."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That corporations move facilities to locations where they can
obtain the best "value" and minimize costs does require
regions to "market" the positives of their own region such
that business will expand to their areas.
And while you note that many industries have left their
original homes, some areas have seen an influx of manufacturing
jobs - and this includes the US. Why did Mercedes, BMW,
Volkswagon and others build in the southeast rather than the
rust-belt? Land costs were not the driver. Transportation costs
were not the driver - although the ability to export autos into and
outside of the US had an impact in deciding to locate facilities in
the US to begin with. Certainly, the education or basic ability of
the workforce was not the driver. Why could the rust-belt not pull
in - draw those production facilities?
We currently are seeing a return to investments in some of the
older industrial sites - nylon and nylon blends, what were in
past times specialty chemicals but now are more industrial
chemicals. The driver seems to be lower costs based on
greater integration with the end-user supply chain along
with lower energy costs.

In short, there are some real positives in the US - growth
is possible still - but we need to take advantage of the positives.
We seem to be trying to avoid talking about them or analyzing
what are the real positives we have - we seem to try to come up with reasons not to use them or not to advertise them even to ourselves.
I do not understand why this has not caught the attention of the
political wonks or the ever seems to become more than the
standard "talking points". Folks tend to split apart on the
taxes vs subsidies vs government aid/"entitlements" vs government
waste.

Howie52
Tricky thing is to get folks to focus on what can be rather
than on what is different between their views and other's.
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Howie52: If the Cold War had provided stimulus for growth, there would have been
a reduction in poverty during the height of the "non-conflict"
rather than during the end of the period.
I really think the Cold War retarded growth - as it retarded
free movement of goods and services. Artificially encouraged
militarization in regions where funding for clean water, sewage treatment and development of infrastructure and such would have
actually encouraged independence in those regions.


I think you and I have been talking about different things. I am talking about the US. Are you talking about the entire world?

CNC
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With the debt exploding, everyone will suffer eventually.

Howie52


"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

-- Dick Cheney
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"I think you and I have been talking about different things. I am talking about the US. Are you talking about the entire world?

CNC "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think that is also part of the fallout of WW II - and the prior I.
The world became a closer neighborhood. Progression from ships
crossing the ocean to planes crossing the globe. Exposure of
mid-west farmers to east Asia, France Germany North Africa - the Middle
East.
Asian coordinating with Russians - with Americans - and seeing the
British lion and the American forces both defeated and triumphant.
How can you look at any foreigner in quite the same way when you
fought and died with and against them? How could your population
fully support a was attempting to maintain a type of colonial
presence over a fairly long time period - with opposition from
forces that speak the words of freedom - even if they also speak the
words of oppression - though oppression of their own and too
frequently of the corrupt.

The US is not so simply isolated - from within or from the
outside. We consume - we develop - we integrate - but we also
act as a magnate - a success - and yes a golden city on the
hill.

Howie52
Long winded, ain't I.
But yes I meant the world.
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"With the debt exploding, everyone will suffer eventually.

Howie52

"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

-- Dick Cheney "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

President Reagan proved revenues matter - that the deficit is
composed of two parts - spending and revenue.
If you are clever, you can grow revenue by growing the economy.
If you are stupid, you can spend your way into oblivion - although
Detroit shows that spending plus incompetence plus corruption
will take you to a bad end quicker than only one of the three.
We were in a high interest environment during the Reagan years -
and were in a high tax burden situation. He had room to maneuver
that we don't have the luxury of today I think.

Howie52
What Reagan did was allow the Congress to channel funds to areas
where there was a real return - whether this was planned or a
lucky accident is arguable. The "star wars" technology actually
bought the country something - or so it seemed. Industry was not
killed or technology selected as much as our current
administration seems to enforce - if you are going to pick
a few companies or a technology to succeed, you have to do it such
that the companies do not go bankrupt or need continuous
returns to the trough.
They did reasonably well with GM - though the Chinese may have helped
there. History is easier to figure when there are a few years
down the road. The current economy seems to still be out to
lunch - but I am terrible at predicting the economy.
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Actually the deficit is shrinking as a percentage of GDP under the Obama administration.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-06/deficit-shrinks-to-...
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"Actually the deficit is shrinking as a percentage of GDP under the Obama administration."


Yeah..they're borrowing a trillion dollars a year to artificially keep interest rates at zero.....flooding the market with 100s of billions of dollars...

and RUNNING UP THE DEBT to over 17 trillion!...which will kill the future economic growth and the standard of living of your kids and grandkids.

We're just not going broke quite so fast.

Instead of heading toward the wall at 1000 mph, Baracki's slowed it to only 997 mph...

wow...

t.
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Heard on the radio today that two male bald eagles were in the Blue Ridge Wildlife Center's medical facility after falling from the sky during what appears to have been a fight over nesting territory. My theory is that they were contaminated by all the hot air coming from your National Capital Region, which also seems to be infecting this board. Couldn't ya'll take it to PA or someplace like that where the unmedicated congregate? I haven't actually read anything in this thread for quite a while, but after 37 posts I'd wager that everything's been said at least twice by at least two people.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool
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"also seems to be infecting this board."

I rarely post here - as I am not retired but leaning more and more
----- and more - toward being sick to death of the combination of
silly scheduling, unreasonable demands, blaming of folks doing the work
for not meeting the plan that they were not involved in implementing.
I read a few posts - and try to get the gist out of the threads.

But the board appears to have an interesting mix - with only a few
folks bent on arguments moreso than just speaking their piece.

Maybe the early retirement boards have jaundiced my view of TMF
boards. And maybe I posted where I should have stayed lurking.
If so, my heart-felt apologies.

Howie52
Perhaps I read too much - or not enough history tomes.
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