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Ok you win. It doesn't matter what dealer you use. They are all the same...except the 50 deaelers across 3 brands that I have extensive experience with as an OEM rep...they are all different, but they are the exceptions of course.

Now you're just inferring things that I never implied. Of course they're different.

Sometimes the individual the customer deals with, as well as the people who develop and implement the procedures and processes the customer will go through, do a good job, and that customer will have a good experience.

Sometimes things are the other way around.

xtn
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I think I'm being given the runaround. Am I? What do you folks think?


I think you are both being given the runaround by each other

I do not believe it is genuine for them to advertise a specific car for $27,767 and then say you also have to pay for the $500 tint. Without seeing the specifics of the ad it is impossible to say exactly though.

I do not believe it is genuine for you to feel you should be entitled to a $2,517 discount from your already negotiated offer of $27,000

So from my perspective it's hard to claim "foul" when you are playing the same game as they are. Of course they play it every day and make money doing it so they are likely going to be better at it and come out ahead in the end.

If the car is what you want at a price you believe is fair then buy it. If you don't trust the dealer then go to another and stop playing games. If you don't want to negotiate, use a buying/pricing service or go to a one price store and accept that you may not get the BEST deal, but you will get the same reasonably fair deal as everyone else.
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To clarify, the $2,517 discount was offered by the sales guy who said he would discount the XLE to the price of an LE. So - you're right. I should have asked him to rework the offer with the sale price of the XLE then add in the discount between the sale price of the XLE and the sale price of the LE.

But DW really likes the car so we went back -- and then hit finance. Finance really had nothing to offer us (we're paying cash) other than to sell warranties. Out came the horror stories. All that fancy computer stuff in the new car -- you don't want to be left uncovered if it goes bad, do you? And that windshield - you know, the on with the lane sensing devices and all built into it? - that can't be replaced by anyone but Toyota and think upwards of $800. Think carefully about flying rocks out there on the road, hail, etc.!!

After, "we're going to help you with the total cost of ownership" by offering to let you pay up front for scheduled maintenance.

By the time it was over, they were pushing a 10+% increase in the bottom line. But, of course, "it's like that everywhere because car's are so much more technologically advanced." Our jaws were dropping.

I was reeling -- hadn't hardly eaten all day, was tired, etc. I finally just told them we had to go after already spending several hours there. We told them we'd decide and be back on Monday. DW is in love with the car (it'll be her 3rd Prius).

I really hate buying cars. I really hate it that it's my 65th birthday coming up and DW gets a brand new car instead of me. <sigh>
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After, "we're going to help you with the total cost of ownership" by offering to let you pay up front for scheduled maintenance.

By the time it was over, they were pushing a 10+% increase in the bottom line. But, of course, "it's like that everywhere because car's are so much more technologically advanced." Our jaws were dropping.


Prepaid maintenance is generally a fair deal and easy to do the math to make sure it is.

Service contracts and other 'insurance' products are big profit for all dealers. It doesn't mean they don't provide value for the buyer though. They are correct that repairs can be expensive, but it is about managing your risk and deciding if you want to pay $xx every month for sure or $xxxx at some point in the future IF something breaks.
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"I think I'm being given the runaround. "

Duh, you're dealing with a new-car, franchise dealer.

However, I will relate that as a 71 year old retiree, I too went shopping, this time for "my last new car".

After a four hour, marathon session, I endured all the tricks and did get the deal that I had in mind the moment I walked into the dealership.

Plus, I got "free" nitrogen in the tires, which included some neat valve stem caps, green centers with "N2", white lettering engraved in the center of each cap.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3894/nitrogen-in-tire...

Sitting in front of the F&I gent, we spent 30 minutes with me answering NO, NO, NO, until he offered five years of oil changes, routine maintenance. etc. for $267. That worked out to $26.70 per service; oil, tire rotation and wash / vacuuming. The first service I was treated like a prince, go figure. Now I just have to 1. live that long, 2. not move away, 3. continue to drive.
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Of course you're being given the runaround. Are you surprised? It's a car dealership after all.

The deal you've been offered is slightly below the average for your area, AND the $100 tint job (marked up to $500) is being thrown in for free? What do you want?

xtn
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Why is nobody saying to try another dealer? Is there only one Toyota dealer in 100 mile radius?

Google map Toyota dealer
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Why is nobody saying to try another dealer? Is there only one Toyota dealer in 100 mile radius?


Meh. It's not like one dealer has a significantly lower bottom dollar than another dealer. The only real difference is the people. How hard do they bargain or how easily do they discount. And how is one ever supposed to get good at negotiating the best deal if they always take the easy negotiation?

xtn
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It's not like one dealer has a significantly lower bottom dollar than another dealer.

Sometimes they do. Of course the invoice price from the factory is the same for every dealer, but the way each dealer structures the deal can be much different if the dealer factors in potential volume bonuses into their deals, and a lot of dealers do, their bottom dollar could be a lot different.

The only real difference is the people.

That is the biggest difference, but its still more than that. As an insider dealing day to day with 14 new car dealers I see a lot more difference in how customers are treated and deals are made than just different people and how incentives are applied.
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As an insider dealing day to day with 14 new car dealers I see a lot more difference in how customers are treated and deals are made than just different people


How customers are treated and how deals are made IS dependent on people.

xtn
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How customers are treated and how deals are made IS dependent on people.


To a certain extent. But if business practices and process and especially pay plans are designed to do certain things then the individual that you plug in to implement those process is somewhat irrelevant.

I'v seen good people at bad stores all the time. The stores still perform poorly and customer satisfaction suffers. Sometimes they still make a healthy profit...maybe they could make more, but if the sales manager is paid mostly on profit and not volume you can anticipate what the results will be. Better pay plans strike a balance between the two but I currently have 10 separate owners running 14 stores and they all have different priorities, experience, talent and business acumen.

I see bad people at good stores less often. These employees will not thrive doing the wrong thing and working against the processes. It does happen but they don't usually last long.
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...if business practices and process and especially pay plans are designed to do certain things then the individual that you plug in to implement those process is somewhat irrelevant.


Sure. But I didn't say the customer's experience is based on that one individual. It's based on that individual AND the people who set up the practices and processes.

xtn
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Sure. But I didn't say the customer's experience is based on that one individual. It's based on that individual AND the people who set up the practices and processes.

xt


Ok you win. It doesn't matter what dealer you use. They are all the same...except the 50 deaelers across 3 brands that I have extensive experience with as an OEM rep...they are all different, but they are the exceptions of course.

In my experience...and by experience I mean real world, actually observed over 23 years in this business and not just hypothetical...you can take the same person and plug them into another operation and get an extremely different result. And it doesn't just happen occasionally. Employees tend to gravitate to the same brands so I see the same customer facing people time after time at different dealers achieving different results.
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Ok you win. It doesn't matter what dealer you use. They are all the same...except the 50 deaelers across 3 brands that I have extensive experience with as an OEM rep...they are all different, but they are the exceptions of course.

Now you're just inferring things that I never implied. Of course they're different.

Sometimes the individual the customer deals with, as well as the people who develop and implement the procedures and processes the customer will go through, do a good job, and that customer will have a good experience.

Sometimes things are the other way around.

xtn
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I bought two Camrys from two dealers in two years.

The first one played all the games making me wait forever and trying to hard sell paid in advance maintenance and warranties. Hours passed. By the time we were done I actually hated them.

The second gave me a price on the phone and honored it, didn’t try to sell me anything extra at all. Fast in and out.
The second dealership was SO much more laid back. One guy there used to work for the first dealer, said he got fired for missing his monthly quota once after working there a year.

Tell me again how they’re all the same?

Buying another Toyota next year. Wonder where I’ll go....
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Tell me again how they’re all the same?

For the record, I was not the one saying they are all the same. Quite the contrary as both my personal and professional experience is much closer to yours.
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What's the deal with tinted windows? I see more and more cars with windows tinted so dark you literally can't see in. I wouldn't pay an extra nickle for tinting. Am I missing something?
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For the record, I didn't say they were all the same either.

xtn
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