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I just read the following sentence in the latest New Yorker, referring to J.D. Salinger:

"But the isolation of his later decades should not be allowed to obscure his essential gift for joy."

This is demonstrably false. Salinger was no Howard Hughes and reportedly found great joy in going to church suppers in New Hampshire and living a quiet life with his wife, away from the spotlight.

Solitude and joy are not mutually exclusive.

kittykitty6, who admired Salinger's quiet life
.
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Can you actually read? Then again, it is on the wingnut whiner board so what can one expect?
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Can you actually read? Then again, it is on the wingnut whiner board so what can one expect?
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Well that was totally called for.

2828
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"But the isolation of his later decades should not be allowed to obscure his essential gift for joy."

This is demonstrably false. Salinger was no Howard Hughes and reportedly found great joy in going to church suppers in New Hampshire and living a quiet life with his wife, away from the spotlight.


Wow, you just irately agreed with the article.
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Thanks kittykitty6 -

That's one of the reason I really like this board. Because introverts aren't likely to get out into society a lot, it's hard to find them in the physical world. But here on the internet, we do find the. catmeyoo especially has marvelous posts about how full an introvert's life can be. I truly feel more comfortable in my own skin because I find other introverts here who seem perfectly happy with their lives.

arrete - I have someone to ploink, btw. I thought of reporting that post but decided to let it stay as an example of imbecility.
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I thought of reporting that post but decided to let it stay as an example of imbecility.

Which is why I ploink instead of FA. If someone is an idiot I want their stupidity on public display for all to see.
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I thought of reporting that post but decided to let it stay as an example of imbecility.

Which is why I ploink instead of FA. If someone is an idiot I want their stupidity on public display for all to see.


If someone is an idiot, I would rather that they just stay on the PA board.
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Can you actually read? Then again, it is on the wingnut whiner board so what can one expect?
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Well that was totally called for.


Sure has hell didn't take long for my question about trolls to be answered.

b
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arrete - I have someone to ploink, btw. I thought of reporting that post but decided to let it stay as an example of imbecility.


I already had that creep in my P-Box but I saw his post because some else quoted him. What a tool. Don't know why he chose you as a target of his wrath. You did the best thing by letting his post stand.

Mike
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I already had that creep in my P-Box but I saw his post because some else quoted him. What a tool. Don't know why he chose you as a target of his wrath. You did the best thing by letting his post stand.

Mike


Oops, I checked the thread again and since he posted before arrete, he was picking on kittykitty6. That's just rich accusing a librarian of not being able to read. I'd love to see if these guys would try this crap face to face.

Mike
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Can you actually read? Then again, it is on the wingnut whiner board so what can one expect?

You must be a liberal. Liberals love to call people names instead of making rational arguments.
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You must be a liberal. Liberals love to call people names instead of making rational arguments.

MadCap


And the thing is that kittykitty6 as far as I could tell was not making a politically oriented post.

Mike
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>> Oops, I checked the thread again and since he posted before arrete, he was picking on kittykitty6. That's just rich accusing a librarian of not being able to read. I'd love to see if these guys would try this crap face to face. <<

And to make it even more hilarious, there was really *zero* political content for a PA drive-by Best Of troll to attack.

But apparently, if *anything* on this board makes that abominable list which I really wish would disappear, some people can't help but pee in the pool regardless.

The funny thing is that despite the tool in question suggesting someone else can't read, apparently it didn't read the contents or else it may have seen there was no reason to post some stupid drive-by political hack commentary.

#29
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I find other introverts here who seem perfectly happy with their lives.

arrete


Yup.


I have someone to ploink, btw.

Also yup. That was an easy call.
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yeah he's a ploinker alright, profile says he's a fundraising consultant Ha! he's broke and bitter, and deranged.

good riddance.
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>> profile says he's a fundraising consultant <<

I wonder if that's anything like a "community organizer."

#29
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>> profile says he's a fundraising consultant <<

I wonder if that's anything like a "community organizer."


Um, no, it's a step behind the community organizer, advising him on how to do certain aspects of his job.
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catmeyoo especially has marvelous posts about how full an introvert's life can be.

Being around other living things is what makes us happy. Oh sure, the odd material possession or tech gadget is pleasurable to get - but that's more like an instant high than the warm glow of happiness.

OTOH, bar-hopping and other such surface interactions doesn't make anyone happy either. It is the deep comfortable relationships (IMO) that are the root of everyone's happiness.

What this means is that an introvert could surround themselves with just a few other beings (spouse, pet, etc.) and live a perfectly happy and contented life without ever stepping into a bar or going to a party.

On the flip side, an extrovert could go bar hopping and attend as many parties as they wanted, still not develop the deep relationship, and be unhappy throughout their entire life.


What I've found as I've aged is that I've slowly drifted ever closer to the classic definition of an introvert. I'm still happy though because on one hand I have my wife to love and on the other I have chickens to decapitate when I get frustrated.

:)
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What I've found as I've aged is that I've slowly drifted ever closer to the classic definition of an introvert. I'm still happy though because on one hand I have my wife to love and on the other I have chickens to decapitate when I get frustrated.


Sometimes, I wonder if there's a natural tendency to classify oneself as an "introvert", whether one may or may not be.

I have known of many people in my life who I thought were naturally happy, liked being with people, had "outgoing" personalities and such, but when you ask them whether they are an "introvert" or "extrovert," I would say about 2/3rds of those who I thought would be extroverts thought of themselves as introverts.

There may be something deeper at work here psychologically.....it may be that we are genetically programmed to seek out people or at least think we should....but when we fall short of our own expectations (THAT WE IMPOSE ON OURSELVES) we think of ourselves as introverts.

It's also like the whole concept of "shyness" when we were younger.....we used the word "shy" alot more often than "introverts" when I was young. People who I thought were not shy, would often under frank circumstances reluctantly admit that they were shy....and for many people who I knew, it blew me away that that many friends I knew thought that about themselves.
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Sure as hell didn't take long for my question about trolls to be answered.

For some reason, when a post from this board hits the Best Of list, it's like the light inside a bug zapper for people who have a parasite's desires. Fortunately, this board also has live wires to complete the analogy of the bug zapper.

1HF
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For some reason, when a post from this board hits the Best Of list, it's like the light inside a bug zapper for people who have a parasite's desires. Fortunately, this board also has live wires to complete the analogy of the bug zapper.

I'm certainly learning to us the frowny face more quickly. :(

b
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It's also like the whole concept of "shyness" when we were younger

Regardless, it's making this particular introvert/shy person very uncomfortable to have my pre-coffee musings on the best-of page :)
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It's also like the whole concept of "shyness" when we were younger.....we used the word "shy" alot more often than "introverts" when I was young. People who I thought were not shy, would often under frank circumstances reluctantly admit that they were shy....and for many people who I knew, it blew me away that that many friends I knew thought that about themselves.

I hope someone (gurd? arrete? 2828?, or anyone else on the board who is truly introverted) writes a thoughtful post about the difference between those of us who are shy and those of us who are introverted. They are not the same thing. I would do so but been there, done that, so I hope someone else is more in the mood or just generally likes trying to help others more than I do.

Here are the first 3 references from google on the subject of the difference between shyness and introversion--there are thousands more:

http://giftedkids.about.com/b/2006/07/13/shy-or-introverted....

http://www.maximizingutility.com/2009/06/introversion-and-sh......

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/4/f/introvert_faq.htm


So there may be introverts and there may be extraverts who happen to be shy. "An introvert enjoys time alone and gets emotionally drained after spending a lot of time with others. A shy person doesn't necessarily want to be alone, but is afraid to interact with others." Goodness knows there have been many good posts on the board in the past explaining how people sometimes get shyness and introversion mixed up as if they are one and the same.

I don't know why I am carrying on so much about this; but to go along with what you suggested AOlFoolman, maybe some people who are really only shy think they are introverts and maybe they aren't at all. After all, you can learn not to be so shy but it is not so easy to change your basic nature. Is the Meyers Briggs test still considered pretty good or has it gone out of fashion? Perhaps Jung himself has gone out of fashion. It is hard for me to know out here in the country far from urban civilization.

Maybe we need to dig out links to some pretty good material from the whole Meyers Briggs Type Indicators and a test or two from the data found that most early retireds on the board were ISTJs or INTFs, and the way introverts and extraverts were defined. All of us have a little of both but most of us lean one way or another, some of us lean almost all the way in one direction. Here's the link to intercst's analysis of the data:

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mbti.html

I am an introvert, and have never been shy not even when I was 3 or something. Except when I have a crush on someone. I can get real tongue-tied then and can't think of a thing to say for fear it will be the wrong thing but soon make myself say something anyway.

I have always been comfortable in front of friends or strangers, whether giving a speech, performing, playing a leadership role or being part of the team. I meet new people easily and can carry on a conversation about just about anything with just about anyone. I am not self conscious or nervous in any people situation that I can think of and have always been able to walk in to the classroom or personnel office or social setting anywhere and get a job, make a friend, arrange a date. I can move to new locations alone, or new jobs and soon be a part of a functioning social network with places to go and people to see. I know I'm approachable, partly that may be because I'm from a small town (and my grandmother always told me to smile and say hello to everyone), but also I know I look friendly and have a certain presence and I don't look like I would hurt you. And I probably wouldn't.

I am an introvert because I prefer my own company to the company of others, although I can tolerate (and actually revel in) the company of someone I love as in a lover or my own child or a grandmother I especially adored. And friends for a few hours, especially friends I work with. It comes down to energy and how you get it. Introverts recharge their batteries during alone time. Extraverts get their batteries recharged being around others.

I didn't know how much I loved my solitude until my son's father died and I was working long, long hours with ever increasing responsiblity, and raising my son alone and started spending weekends by myself with my boy and avoiding evening or weekend social occasions whenever possible just because I decided my son and my job were my two priorities and I didn't have the energy or time for a social life. I began to realize how much I enjoyed the lack of social commitments and then as my son reached his teenage years and started spending a lot of time with his friends I had even more quiet time by myself and didn't want to do something with other people at all when I could get out of it. I had some friends who nagged me a little and thought it wasn't right, and maybe I became a little eccentric, and so what say I. I was strong and I was happy, and besides, now some of those friends are starting to get more like me so I'm told.

I get more reclusive all the time but I still like a little social contact. I can get plenty of social pleasure out of smiling at my doctor's nurse at the clinic, the one I like, and my dental technician, the pretty one I adore, who tells me all about her life while she cleans my teeth. I get enough pleasure out of those kinds of small things to fill any social needs for weeks.

And I get a kind of social fix from this board, where I can observe most of the time if I want and don't feel pressured at all to participate unless I feel like it. There is always something interesting going on at this board it seems to me. Although some sad things have happened too that made me feel bad, but ah well. That is life amongst one's own species.

As a contented introvert who wishes to use my time and energy reflecting and contemplating whatever crosses my mind, I'm especially interested in recluses and hermits and monks and love reading about them every chance I get, especially the way they organize the hours of their day. Here is a good website with more about introverts, solitaries, so forth. I've listed this web site what seems like hundreds of times on this forum although it was probably only once or twice.

http://www.hermitary.com/articles/
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"I can get plenty of social pleasure out of smiling at my doctor's nurse at the clinic, the one I like, and my dental technician, the pretty one I adore, who tells me all about her life while she cleans my teeth. I get enough pleasure out of those kinds of small things to fill any social needs for weeks." - catmeyoo
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For me it's going to the bank. They know me by name there. I like that. We live about a mile from our bank and have several different accounts there and I prefer to do business face to face because I figure there's less chance of a mix-up so I just hop in the car and run to the bank to do my banking. I actually sort of enjoy it.

Artie
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I have always been an introvert. I enjoy other people's company, but I don't need it. I love being alone.
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For me it's going to the bank. They know me by name there. I like that.

Me, too! Every time I go there, the same woman pulls up accounts to see if I'm getting the maximum interest (negligible). The tellers are always cheerful. They always say thank-you and call me by name, then ask if there's anything else they can do. Amazing. But we also utilize three different banks. One had a good rate for CD's so I got several of them. I like them because they are always courteous and professional. They don't have gimmicky account plans, either. Plain banking. What's not to like. But I don't use this particular bank for that because they have so few branches and are not convenient to where we live. The third bank is where we had our mortgage but it's been paid off. Still, we have 1K sitting in a checking account there. We're too lazy to take the money out. :-)
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I hope someone (gurd? arrete? 2828?, or anyone else on the board who is truly introverted) writes a thoughtful post about the difference between those of us who are shy and those of us who are introverted.
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Oh no, you aren't gonna rope me into that one <g>. Actually you did a pretty good job explaining, nice post. I've always been kind of shy around people i don't know really well. In earlier life i was much more outgoing, i had plans doing something every weekend, now just thinking about all of it makes me uneasy, i don't know how i did it. Nowadays i hate having plans. I dunno.

2828
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An introvert enjoys time alone and gets emotionally drained after spending a lot of time with others.

Well, I think this describes me perfectly. My love of solitude wanes a bit, though. I took a 12 week class last Spring/summer. There were seven people in it. Each week I looked forward to chatting with each and every person - and did it with ease. Did I ever surprise myself. But at the end, and with invitations other couples houses for drinks and such - gave us their phone number but we didn't keep in touch.

Same goes with company parties. This year, we elected to go but DH, knowing my aversion to the superficiality of mingling in crowds, knew I wasn't looking forward to it so he said the heck with it, let's stay home. I almost did a Snoopy dance. We stayed home, had a cozy dinner together and watched some television. I was in my element.

At home, on the weekdays, it is the best of all worlds - the quiet, time to devote only to myself and the privacy of my life. I have two close girlfriends. The closest is now battling cancer. She's had two rounds of chemo and we email each other, daily. She's doing better, she says. If anything hastens her toward a demise, I think I'll curl up in a ball and sink into a depression. When we talk on the phone, it's difficult not to cry. I love her. We've been best friends for years.

My relationships with people are few, but very deep. That's always been true in my life. I am otherwise peopled-out. Too many at work and too many in my younger years. I think, over the years, I've found my niche - and that is in solitude but at times maintain contact with some well chosen people with whom I've developed a good and lasting friendship. That's enough for me. Any more than that and I get downright cranky.

By the way, the one of the nurses in my doc's office is about as pleasant as Nurse Ratchet. I don't mind calling her a battle ax. You're lucky. My dentist and his assistant aren't big conversationalists. This is good because you can't reply with all that stuff in your mouth. :-)
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That was beautiful, catmeyoo. I guess all introverts are different. I'm not shy about speaking in front of people, but I hate large unorganized groups like cocktail parties. I am no good at small talk - I don't have a way to connect because my interests aren't what other people's are. And I don't want to talk politics or religion. Anyway, I don't feel shy, I feel awkward.

I go to the classes partially to force myself to be more social. I try to strike up conversations with people before class starts, but sometimes it's a no go. I tried last Monday, and the woman was completely monosyllabic. Maybe she was shy, but maybe she wanted me to shut up. I choose number two until a woman sat down on the silent woman's other side and pulled out her knitting. Now there's something to talk about, so we did. And I have gotten to know people pretty well in my recorder class. Maybe I appear unapproachable. Don't know.

I really enjoy solitude. Luckily, so does DH, so there is no problem avoiding cocktail parties, except for my step-sibs very loud ones - oy!, and I avoid those when I can. As catmeyoo says, a little social interaction is really all I need.

I have felt rather stressed out by social interactions lately. Rehab 2-3 times a week involves conversing with my masseuse whom I've known for 15 years. That's over now for a while. Dinner party with step-sibs and step-mother - my ears! Neighbor takes us out to dinner. Step-brother comes over on a whim and yaks for 2 hours. I'm am really glad for the snow. Just me and DH for at least 3 days.

I'm going to save catmeyoo's URLs for my afternoon tea, and enjoy them slowly. Retirement is especially wonderful for introverts.

I'm really glad you started this thread, kittykitty6.

arrete
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>> I'm really glad you started this thread, kittykitty6. <<

Same here. Not only does it give a little bit of validation and solidarity for the Myers-Briggs "I" types, but it also revealed folks who are tools that should get the frowny.

#29
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Same here. Not only does it give a little bit of validation and solidarity for the Myers-Briggs "I" types, but it also revealed folks who are tools that should get the frowny.

I liked the term LD used..."ploinkers." That just sounds right, ya know? ;)

b
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>> I liked the term LD used..."ploinkers." That just sounds right, ya know? ;) <<

Sounds like something you'd make bacon from...

#29 (everything's better with bacon)
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(everything's better with bacon)

I thought of this board this morning - Baltimore is in the middle of a blizzard and we're snowed in. There are 22 inches on our porch this morning, and it's still snowing heavily.

We had pancakes, bacon and coffee laced with chocolate mint Baileys for breakfast, and I'm planning grilled cheese/tomato soup/hot chocolate for lunch, and Paula Deen's "Courage Chili" recipe and sweet cornbread for dinner.

Plan for today: throwing more wood on the fire, reading Agatha Christies, watching old episodes of Andy Griffith and petting the kitties.

Exciting to be snowed in! We may be snowbound until the middle of next week!
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Exciting to be snowed in! We may be snowbound until the middle of next week!
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Nonsense! I'll send in arrete and LuckyDog to shovel you out.

2828
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We had pancakes, bacon and coffee laced with chocolate mint Baileys for breakfast, and I'm planning grilled cheese/tomato soup/hot chocolate for lunch, and Paula Deen's "Courage Chili" recipe and sweet cornbread for dinner.

Plan for today: throwing more wood on the fire, reading Agatha Christies, watching old episodes of Andy Griffith and petting the kitties.

Exciting to be snowed in! We may be snowbound until the middle of next week!


Sounds lovely! I wish we could be snowed in till mid week. I'd really love to have Jim and the kids home for a few days. Would be nice.

I must look up this "courage chili" you speak of! We're planning on chili and corn bread for tomorrow.

b
only a little bit snowed in. Could brave it if we had to.
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We had pancakes, bacon and coffee laced with chocolate mint Baileys for breakfast
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I thought it was a hearty breakfast day, too. Edwards Peppered Bacon (the BEST!), scrambeled eggs and toast made with homemade Pain de Campagnard. Yum.

I may shovel the walk one more time, but otherwise it's knitting, reading and maybe watching my Netflix CD - Bones in season 2 I think. I'm sort of getting tired of Bones. May watch something else. Anyway, just flaking out and realizing how much better off I am than all those extraverts who already feel housebound.

arrete
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I thought it was a hearty breakfast day, too. Edwards Peppered Bacon (the BEST!), scrambeled eggs and toast made with homemade Pain de Campagnard. Yum.
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That is soooo weird. Someone asked me this morning what i thought arrete was gonna have for breakfast and i said, "my prediction....pain", and i was totally right, maybe i should play lotto today.

2828
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I get more reclusive all the time but I still like a little social contact.

A couple of days ago I was musing about this with my husband.

When we moved to Baltimore from Chicago it was difficult for a number of reasons and I identified one of them as the fact that both of us, as extreme introverts (I'm a shy introvert, and he's not shy) tend to rely on tangential but regular acquaintances in order to feel "at home" and grounded.

When we lived in Chicago we had, for instance, people we saw regularly like our doorman, and our housekeeper, and the other occupants of our condo building whom we saw regularly but didn't have deep friendships with. Both of us have a few deep friendships - mostly stemming from our childhoods - that we love, but neither of us can be around groups without needing a substantial amount of time to recover.

When we moved we lost those little tangential touchstones and since we're reclusive and not social, it's hard to rebuild those little interactions that gave us social contact without feeling intruded upon. We're starting to build those, but it took a very long time.

I know I'm lucky to be married to another introvert - I can't imagine feeling like I had to be sociable in order to please a partner. BOTH of our fathers were genuine recluses, and sometimes it's alarming to think about how reclusive I've become and how much I love and crave time alone (and with my husband, with whom I can spend time "alone together").

I can't ever remember feeling lonely when I've been alone. I love time alone and am self-entertaining. I envy those of you who are retired and can spend your time as you please. I think that's why I read this board - it keeps me very motivated and on track to retire early.
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I know I'm lucky to be married to another introvert - I can't imagine feeling like I had to be sociable in order to please a partner. BOTH of our fathers were genuine recluses, and sometimes it's alarming to think about how reclusive I've become and how much I love and crave time alone (and with my husband, with whom I can spend time "alone together").
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My wife's an extrovert but she realizes i'm not so she does stuff on her own, works out good, i get alot of alone time. Funny, when we met i was still in business and i was more outgoing, i had to be to keep up relationships, like business partner relationships, business contact relationships, employee relationships, etc. As soon as me and the business partner split i kind of fell into my comfort zone, at least at this part of my life, earlier in life i was more social, i dunno, later on some relationships got draining, every weekend something planned, i started trying to get the plans made less frequent and those people began thinking it was me being anti-social, which is kind of true, but not in a bad way, i dunno, hard to explain. Oddly we're meeting another couple out for drinks tonite, it happens once or twice over the winter, it's a nice change of pace, i'm really good friends with the guy, we played softball together, we play on the same floor hockey team, and he's an introvert like me, probably moreso. The End.
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I hope someone (gurd? arrete? 2828?, or anyone else on the board who is truly introverted) writes a thoughtful post about the difference between those of us who are shy and those of us who are introverted. They are not the same thing. I would do so but been there, done that, so I hope someone else is more in the mood or just generally likes trying to help others more than I do.


I thought you did a very good job in the rest of your post, catmeyoo, on illustrating the difference. From your description of yourself, I'd say you are an introvert but not really shy.

I myself am both shy and an introvert. Maybe at some point I'll explain that in greater detail, but this is all I can manage for now.
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