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No. of Recommendations: 19
This is, of course, the statement that introduced SeattlePioneer to the thread.

Sounds like Douchenozzle's been taking fathering tips from SeattlePioneer.

I read that and asked myself, "What did s/he mean by that?" Everybody knows SP doesn't like women, but what does he have against children?

The responses seemed to center on the generally accepted fact that SP does not like women.


As for his deep sense of responsibility, etc. he constantly - make that consistantly blames divorce on woman. I have never, ever seen him entertain the idea that a man's behavior might be responsible for the demise of a marriage or for a woman wanting to remove her children form him. The idea that abusive behavior might be at fault is nowhere in his horizen that I have ever seen. It's just blame, blame, blame, and that doesn't sound so responsible to me.

Again, SP doesn't like women. Has he ever been married? No one knows, but I doubt it. Has he got a girlfriend? A lover? Is there a woman in his life? Is there a man, for that matter? No, actually I think SP is a confirmed bachelor. He is a single guy, determined to remain single, with some odd ideas about adult relationships. What does that have to do with his attitudes toward children?

It suggests an unwillingness to assume culpability for one's actions.

Is there a particular action for which SP has declined to assume responsibility? I know he doesn't like women, and I think we all know he doesn't like women. But is there a particular woman to whom SP has made a particular promise which SP has failed to honor? The guy has posted more than 60,000 times. I think before I convict him of not keeping his promises I'd want more than a "suggest(ion of) an unwillingness" to assume responsibility.

Ok, we all know SP doesn't like women. I think this horse is dead. How does he feel about kids? How about dogs? How about family?

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23729668
Here SP talks about helping his brother out and caring for his brother's family dog. It seems he is discussing here a general common practice, so he must handle his responsibilities here well. He is also trying to help a woman evaluate the prospects of a small business, and his advice seems well-thought-out and sound.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23728000
He likes Oprah because she gives good advice and recommends good books.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23727840
He is patriotic and helps boy scouts with service projects. He isn't real crazy about some of the ideas taught in public schools. Anybody who is involved in schools and the boy scouts must like kids at least a little bit, and must believe in individual responsibility at least a little bit. You may not like his views, and I see no evidence that he likes women. But he does work in his community to improve it.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23727568
SP tries to save people money by helping them maintain their equipment.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23718162
He recognizes that he is making decisions for himself and that works for him might not work for another, and vice-versa.



What is my point here? That SP consistently recognizes that every action has a consequence, and if you don't like possible consequences then you should refrain from certain actions. He doesn't want the consequence of losing contact with possible children, so he has avoided marriage. Is that a choice many would make? Obviously not, but it is his to make.


Let me put another spin on this. I love my wife, and I like women generally. I love my stepkids, and I like children in general. I can't imagine how painful it would be for me if my ex-wife and I had had kids together, and if she had taken those imaginary children with her when she left Illinois for Minnesota seven years ago. I've joked that if we had had children together, I'd have had to kill her. That's not funny, is it?

I don't know if I've made my point or not. I kind of doubt it. If I had to reduce it to one sentence, it would be this:SP has lived his whole life not doing things if he wasn't prepared for the possible consequences.



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I found the 'fathering tips' characterization to be extremely appropos.

If I had to reduce it to one sentence, it would be this: SP has lived his whole life not doing things if he wasn't prepared for the possible consequences.

I wouldn't argue that. I don't think anyone here would argue that. The comment was about SP's fathering tips.

"Unfortunately, it's a mistake to invest too much emotionally in children. Instead, men should be prepared to have their children removed from their company, care and custody with little or no notice if their wife decides that's what she wants to do today."

This is a fathering tip, no?

It's very apparent that SP only takes risks (to a fault, one could argue) if he's prepared for the consequences. But I'd bet you if Douchenozzle *did* approach SP for some fathering tips, SP would not be spewing rainbows and lollipops. He would be giving the "don't hug your kid or show any love or get emotionally attached" type of advice.

Again, no one is arguing SP's willingness to accept responsibility.





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SP has lived his whole life not doing things if he wasn't prepared for the possible consequences.


possibly-
I think he has thought too far into the Worst Case Scenario consequences of many actions and just chosen not to insert verb here.
While that is commendable (the action of not doing X if one doesn't want Y) - it seems to also be, not particularly exciting.
This from one who has done truly stupid things (and had a hell of a time) and lived through most of the results - Good and Bad.

He also has commented briefly on a less than stellar experience as a child, so perhaps there is the indication that he does not ever want to be a part of that cycle either.

peace & consequences
t
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If I had to reduce it to one sentence, it would be this:SP has lived his whole life not doing things if he wasn't prepared for the possible consequences.

In other words, SP only chooses the struggles and battles that he's prepared to win, not lose.

His way of thinking and teaching is to deny that people behave or do things because it is not within their conscious control, or choice: he denies even that sometimes people must deal with consequences they do not like, nor chose. He refuses to delve in areas in which he fears being at a disadvantage (such as relationships), so he adheres rigidly to fields of interest and expertise in which he excels. He lives in a perfect world: he sees what he sees, understands all that he sees. If there's something he doesn't understand, simply he does not see it: it simply does not exist and therefore he doesn't see it. He admits to no weakness, fallibility, or ignorance in any area as he understands everything within his purview.

In SP's world, we are divided into camps of women, the fools that are prey to women, or just the wise and the just, like himself. Fools choose their consequences by making bad decisions, women deliberately contrive consequences out of malfeasance and selfishness, but the remaining wise (of course, all men like SP), live good lives because they have perfectly teflon-coated lives in which everything is a matter of their choices, diligence, and wisdom.

Yes, I think SP would make a great father: he would provide for anything that they require, but never for what they need. He is a man of pure functionality when it comes people: if it's broke, he'll fix it. If it ain't broke, but he can't understand it, he'll ignore it as it doesn't matter in his perceptions of the world. He lives in a very neat, self-enclosed, and logical world, undisturbed by the reality of others.

If his children were only boys, raised in a male-only environment, and raised to consider females an aberration, or like pet animals, at best. I note that he seems to enjoy his nephews: no mention of any nieces, though that doesn't mean he doesn't have any, just that he has zero interest in them whatsoever.
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If his children were only boys, raised in a male-only environment, and raised to consider females an aberration, or like pet animals, at best. I note that he seems to enjoy his nephews: no mention of any nieces, though that doesn't mean he doesn't have any, just that he has zero interest in them whatsoever.

His fascination with all things male as good and all things female as bad has my mind running towards one and only one conclusion.

A-yup.

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No. of Recommendations: 23
BROKEBACK FURNACE!
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The outburst you just caused scared the living crap out of my cat. I probably won't see him for two days.
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His fascination with all things male as good and all things female as bad has my mind running towards one and only one conclusion.

A-yup.


Why does he have to be gay to hold his sexist views? I know lots of misogynistic straight men.

Let's not make him gay and "Brokeback Mountain" references are not amusing. It is an insult and disrespectful to gay men as well to presume their orientation presumes them to be inherent misogynistic.

Meg
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You know, I don't remember mentioning exactly what conclusion I was running towards.

That's on you, toots.

Have a nice day.

- T.

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That's on you, toots.

Have a nice day.

- T.


I am not "toots."

No, you didn't say it explicitly, but the subsequent "Brokeback Furnace" reference, and having seen SP being accused of being gay in various forms on the boards.

You know, I don't remember mentioning exactly what conclusion I was running towards.

Maybe you'd actually like to mention it, then? Feel free to: it would have saved me lots of aggravation of reading yet another Brokeback reference that was your follow-up.

Then again, you might be yet another mindlessly glib type on LGBT issues. I'm sure that's the case. I know this is far from a PC board or community.

Please have a nice day, yourself.

Meg
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Oh please.
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The title of this thread makes me want to hurl.


RJ
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Beats "under" though, don't it?
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I am not "toots."


Hey, if you can imply that I'm a homophobe, then I can call you "toots".

No, you didn't say it explicitly, but the subsequent "Brokeback Furnace" reference, and having seen SP being accused of being gay in various forms on the boards.

Excuse me? Did I make that reference? No. I did not. Please double check your assumptions at the door.

Please also point to where I have ever made any reference to SP's sexuality anywhere on this board. I do not like your broad brush. Keep it away from me.

Maybe you'd actually like to mention it, then? Feel free to: it would have saved me lots of aggravation of reading yet another Brokeback reference that was your follow-up.

No. I will not. Had I wanted to specifically state was I was thinking, I WOULD HAVE DONE SO THE FIRST TIME.

Then again, you might be yet another mindlessly glib type on LGBT issues. I'm sure that's the case.

Oh. I see. I can not state that my mind is running in a direction, but YOU may decide what MY attitude is on LGBT issues. Interesting.

Nice double standard you've got there. Very interesting.

Let me tell you something, toots, ... actually, nevermind. You don't deserve to know.

Go pound sand.


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I don't have many openly gay friends. The couple of openly gay friends I have really, genuinely like women, and enjoy the company of women. I can't conclude from anything SP has ever said that he is gay.
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The title of this thread makes me want to hurl.


RJ


My work here is done.
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"Go pound sand."

Where's the fire?
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{{His way of thinking and teaching is to deny that people behave or do things because it is not within their conscious control, or choice: he denies even that sometimes people must deal with consequences they do not like, nor chose. He refuses to delve in areas in which he fears being at a disadvantage (such as relationships), so he adheres rigidly to fields of interest and expertise in which he excels. He lives in a perfect world: he sees what he sees, understands all that he sees. If there's something he doesn't understand, simply he does not see it: it simply does not exist and therefore he doesn't see it. He admits to no weakness, fallibility, or ignorance in any area as he understands everything within his purview.}}


This does not seem to fit SP at all. He certainly does nto adhere rigidly to fields in which he excels. He has posted many times about how he has experimented and failed in that experiment and how he has learned from those failures to refine the process and make it better. If your characterization of SP was accurate, he either would not have experimented or he would have quit after the first experiment failed. You talk about SP not admitting ignorance. It seems like you need to admit that you are pretty ignorant about SP and yet you still feel the need to make baseless accusations against him.


c
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He has posted many times about how he has experimented and failed in that experiment and how he has learned from those failures to refine the process and make it better

Are we talking pizza or human relationships here?
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If I had to reduce it to one sentence, it would be this:SP has lived his whole life not doing things if he wasn't prepared for the possible consequences.

In other words, SP only chooses the struggles and battles that he's prepared to win, not lose.

These are SOOOOO not the same thing.

Avoiding actions that can cause consequences you know you can't deal with is extremely responsible. Virtually everyone tries to do this, although we might have different ideas about what consequences aren't acceptable for us personally.

The characterization that SP only chooses struggles he is prepared to win based on his vigilance at avoiding unacceptable consequences is not fair. There is a vast difference between the only acceptable outcome being winning and being able to accept consequences.

Case in point: I currently work as a process architect for my company, with a specific focus on figuring out how to integrate various processes into our CRM system. I have many contacts within various CRM implementation consulting firms. However, I know from past experience and the experience of friends that while consulting jobs in my field can be downright lucrative, there is also a significant risk of being laid off due to lack of projects. Therefore, I choose not to pursue these consulting roles at this time becuase I cannot accept the risk of being out of work, especially when compared to my current stable employment situation. This is RESPONSIBLE for me financially, and also from a career perspective at this time. However, I am most assuredly not one to back away from challenging projects and roles as a general practice. I am just getting that challenge within a more stable employment situation.

d

PS. I love impolite. :o)
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d

PS. I love impolite. :o)


Welcome to the board! I suggest you start near the beginning of the board...it's been interesting in my life, indeed.

impolite
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Case in point: I currently work as a process architect for my company, with a specific focus on figuring out how to integrate various processes into our CRM system. I have many contacts within various CRM implementation consulting firms. However, I know from past experience and the experience of friends that while consulting jobs in my field can be downright lucrative, there is also a significant risk of being laid off due to lack of projects.

So do you spend every opportunity warning anyone who will listen to avoid consulting jobs at all cost?

pix
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Case in point: I currently work as a process architect for my company, with a specific focus on figuring out how to integrate various processes into our CRM system. I have many contacts within various CRM implementation consulting firms. However, I know from past experience and the experience of friends that while consulting jobs in my field can be downright lucrative, there is also a significant risk of being laid off due to lack of projects.

So do you spend every opportunity warning anyone who will listen to avoid consulting jobs at all cost?

No. However, I do warn people who would likely find the consequences of taking a consulting job unacceptable to avoid consulting jobs.

That said, I do not believe SP does the analagous either. He finds plenty of other topics to talk about, he has genuine convictions. I sometimes disagree with him, but am intelligent enough to consider the entire body of his work rather than labeling him a misogynist and a child-hater like some would do.
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I'm sorry but a person with 1/2 a brain can not read his stuff and not label him a misogynist. Every single thing he says about women is hateful.


I'll disagree.

Everything he says about long-term close relationships between men and women, yes.

But not everything about women.
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But not everything about women.


Your challenge is to find a female positive post by SP. Good luck.

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Your challenge is to find a female positive post by SP. Good luck.


http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=16273455

sort of?

peace & false positives
t

didn't look too hard - but couldn't help trying
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didn't look too hard - but couldn't help trying

Amazing. It was written over 5 years ago but still - it was written.

The great new search engine was completely busted when I tried to find something. I entered his ID and the word 'women' and came up with zero posts. Then I tried his ID and the word 'Pizza' and also came up empty. That's when I realized the thing was broken.

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{{ I don't know about the kids but I do know it will be a cold day in hell before I'd ever let him anywhere near a girl child.}}


And what the hell is that supposed to mean. How dare you accuse SP of being a potential abuser to a girl. I can not understand how you think it is acceptable to make up all of these false accusations agaisnt SP simply because you disagree with his opinion on marriage. It is absolutely dispicable.


c
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And what the hell is that supposed to mean.

It wasn't difficult to understand - and from the recs it garnered before it was pulled I'd assume that quite a few people had no problem understanding it.

The views that SP continually peddles on these boards are so anti-women that many of us with any responsibilty for female children would rather shield them from those views and attitudes than expose them to them.

Why is that so wrong?

And, as it so obviously offended you, what exactly did you think it meant?
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{{ I don't know about the kids but I do know it will be a cold day in hell before I'd ever let him anywhere near a girl child.}}
And what the hell is that supposed to mean. How dare you accuse SP of being a potential abuser to a girl. I can not understand how you think it is acceptable to make up all of these false accusations agaisnt SP simply because you disagree with his opinion on marriage. It is absolutely dispicable.
c


The statement you're criticizing neither accuses SP of sexual abuse, nor supports an inference of that meaning. As you point out, it is his views on marriage (and women) that were being discussed. I have no reason on earth to suspect SP of any inappropriate contact with children. However, I would not want a young girl child to spend time with a man who harbored such resentment and suspicion towards females.
I believe the OP was not suggesting that a girl's body needed protection from SP, but rather that her self-esteem and emotional stability would be at risk. No "false accusation" was made, just a reasonable comment that it would be uncomfortable for a girl to hang around a man who was mad at women.
Pine
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However, I would not want a young girl child to spend time with a man who harbored such resentment and suspicion towards females.


I would actually worry more about him spending time with a boy child, since that would give him an opportunity to pass his views on and create another generation of distrusting, female-loathing males.


RJ
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That makes sense too.
Either way, it has to do with molesting their minds and hearts,
not their bods.
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The great new search engine was completely busted when I tried to find something. I entered his ID and the word 'women' and came up with zero posts. Then I tried his ID and the word 'Pizza' and also came up empty. That's when I realized the thing was broken.

i used "sister" because i knew to find it, it would refer to his SIL.

peace & search engines
t
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Your challenge is to find a female positive post by SP. Good luck.

Greetings, MPF, I can't exactly claim that responses to my posts by SP are "female-positive" but since I am a female and he (for some reason I am not entirely clear on) has always been respectful in his replies to me, perhaps that qualifies as a potential example. Since my customary posting home is on the Credit Cards and Consumer Debt board, I am pretty much thinking that's where he has previously replied to me (except possibly on rare occasions on LBYM where I've posted just a handful of times). Just FYI. I cannot really disagree with the perception of SP as female-negative but perhaps in individual cases he may make an exception.

xraymd

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And what the hell is that supposed to mean. How dare you accuse SP of being a potential abuser to a girl.

Whoa nelly - please check your assumptions at the door.

I just wouldn't want a girl child to be exposed to his rants about how women are just after men for their money and how they just take advantage of men by marrying them, having kids and then dumping the guy and never letting him see his kids.

I said nothing about abuse.

So what's going on in your head, c-man?

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It wasn't difficult to understand - and from the recs it garnered before it was pulled I'd assume that quite a few people had no problem understanding it.

It got pulled?

Sweet! It's been so long since the TMF police have come sniffing at my door.
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I would actually worry more about him spending time with a boy child, since that would give him an opportunity to pass his views on and create another generation of distrusting, female-loathing males.

Excellent point!

I am so enjoying this thread.

Pardonnez-moi for not reading ahead before responding and thanks to everyone who could both see my point and reiterate it for the man with the mind that jumped to sexual abuse. ew!
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It wasn't difficult to understand - and from the recs it garnered before it was pulled I'd assume that quite a few people had no problem understanding it.

ps - I guess we know who FA'd it.
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Sweet! It's been so long since the TMF police have come sniffing at my door

You're far more generous than I. There was nothing wrong with your post and people were free to agree or disagree with your point. Since c-man seems to think that abuse in this situation could only involve a penis not a brain it seems he has stirred the censors. Their logic in supporting him is beyond me.
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Their logic in supporting him is beyond me.


Not me. I said something about a person with 1/2 a brain could see..

They consider that to be uncivil.

Whatever.

They pretty much pull any post that a person says offends them. I have no doubt that c-man FA'd my post.

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Your challenge is to find a female positive post by SP. Good luck.

Greetings, MPF, I can't exactly claim that responses to my posts by SP are "female-positive" but since I am a female and he (for some reason I am not entirely clear on) has always been respectful in his replies to me, perhaps that qualifies as a potential example. Since my customary posting home is on the Credit Cards and Consumer Debt board, I am pretty much thinking that's where he has previously replied to me (except possibly on rare occasions on LBYM where I've posted just a handful of times). Just FYI. I cannot really disagree with the perception of SP as female-negative but perhaps in individual cases he may make an exception.


xraymd
MOI (same experience to a T)
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The title of this thread makes me want to hurl.


RJ
crassfool
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I hit a double off the left field wall

Two more and I've got a home run
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Your challenge is to find a female positive post by SP. Good luck.

Greetings, MPF, I can't exactly claim that responses to my posts by SP are "female-positive" but since I am a female and he (for some reason I am not entirely clear on) has always been respectful in his replies to me, perhaps that qualifies as a potential example. Since my customary posting home is on the Credit Cards and Consumer Debt board, I am pretty much thinking that's where he has previously replied to me (except possibly on rare occasions on LBYM where I've posted just a handful of times). Just FYI. I cannot really disagree with the perception of SP as female-negative but perhaps in individual cases he may make an exception.

xraymd
MOI (same experience to a T)
dianakalt (virtually all replies from SP have been respectful)
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Amendment.

SP can behave respectfully toward women he "knows" and apparently only holds total contempt for theoretical women who get married. Weird but different than my previous assertion.

Can we drop this now?
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Can we drop this now?

No, not until we determine if he lives on $18K a year.
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No, not until we determine if he lives on $18K a year.

I think it is possible that he does because he was a good little squirrel and stashed a lot of money early on. I do give him credit for carving out a leisurely but well funded life.
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No, not until we determine if he lives on $18K a year.

I used to live in a lake.
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Any reason to imagine he couldn't?
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IT WAS A JOKE.
I was just referring to the contentious and interminable thread on LBYM.
I don't have any information or nosiness about SP's financial situation.
Sorry if it wasn't clear.
Pine
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<< No, not until we determine if he lives on $18K a year. >>

I used to live in a lake.


You think withholding emotional attachment is bad?!? In my family, when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah!!

-synchronicity
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You think withholding emotional attachment is bad?!? In my family, when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah!!
-synchronicity


It'll be a cold day in heck before I let Sync watch my kids.
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It'll be a cold day in heck before I let Sync watch my kids.

That's too bad, because it would be to your economic benefit: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20455576

FYI- they're easier to watch through a sniper scope.

-synchronicity

Got it yesterday. Thanks and thanks!
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Got it yesterday. Thanks and thanks!

I'm sending a brief email.
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I'm sending a brief email.

No need for the email - just send the briefs :-)

-h
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