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I don't even think Art would want this one.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11381094/9/10-worst-cars-of-a...

intercst
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"I don't even think Art would want this one."
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11381094/9/10-worst-cars-of-a...
intercst



Yeah, I kind of do. <grin!> I could use it to run over to Mi-ma's house on the back roads between here and Christiana where MIL lives. It would be fun to drive.

I just feel like someone could make a small inexpensive car that gets great gas mileage? I'm thinking the Tata Nano might fit the bill if the United States would allow it in? A little inexpensive second car that gets excellent gas mileage that would be perfect for running to the grocery store, the post office, bank, doctor or dentist office, etc.

When I drive around town running errands I'm appalled at the number of behemoth SUV's and giant trucks on the road with just one person in them? Don't they know they are wasting our descendants future? Oil and gas are limited resources. When it's gone, it's gone! Regardless of whether we've reached Peak Oil or not there is a limited amount of oil in the Earth and there will come a time when our descendants are going to be pissed off that we've used up all the damn oil!

Most vehicles on the road have only one person riding in them. It's such a waste of resources it's appalling. I drive a 2005 Nissan Sentra that gets 31 miles to the gallon in town. I wish I was driving even a smaller more economically sensible car. I'd like to get even better gas mileage.

Art
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My neighbor collects micro cars and has two BMW Isettas. They are very cool (although a safety nightmare, I'm sure).
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If there was a car, like the Tata Nano, that was reasonable enough that a family could buy one and use it to run errands around town, and keep it as a second car for those times when only one person was out and about, I think it might sell?

I'm sorry but one of my pet peeves is seeing people driving giant gas guzzlers, not hauling anything or anybody, and they are unnecessaily using up huge amounts of a limited resource? Who knows how much petroleum we realistically have left? "We" meaning the human race.

When I go out I'm always astonished at the huge numbers of cars out on the road driving around. It's mind boggling to me. How in the world can we keep them all supplied with fuel and for how long? It can't last forever and let's face it, sunlight is wonderful but I don't think it can realistically replace oil? It's not dense enough with energy.

What a strange world we live in.

Art
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Art:"When I go out I'm always astonished at the huge numbers of cars out on the road driving around. It's mind boggling to me. How in the world can we keep them all supplied with fuel and for how long? It can't last forever and let's face it, sunlight is wonderful but I don't think it can realistically replace oil? It's not dense enough with energy.

What a strange world we live in. "


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If they were all running around on electric power, would you be as concerned?

Mankind first used fire to keep warm.

THen he discovered coal.....and that created steam.....that produced transportation.....railrods......

then he found oil and produced kerosene for many decades...

then Benz invented the car.....and it ran on bio diesel.....

then they made diesel...and gasoline...and jet fuel.....


We'll adapt after we've burned through most of the oil in the ground, the oil in the soil, the oil in the rock....another 50 years....or 100 years.....



t.
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"If they were all running around on electric power, would you be as concerned?" - tele


I suppose it depends on where and how that electricity was being produced? The problem with electricity is storage. Also it's that "density" thing I've heard you talk about. It's just that petroleum is so dense with energy it's difficult to beat. For instance I'm not sure a big heavy airplane can fly on electricity. Something to do with the weight of the batteries versus how much energy they have stored? I'm not talking about a little ultra light airplane with a midget in it but a big airplane carrying passengers, cargo, etc.

There will come a time when we won't see near as many airplanes in the sky like we do today.

Artie
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Tele you've made me a believer in Peak Oil. I've always wondered how we could keep producing enough fuel to keep the billions of vehicles on the road that we currently have, and the links you've posted in the past and your explaining in your posts about peak oil have convinced me that we can't keep going on forever as we currently are.

I was just thinking that if we could convince enough people to switch over to smaller more fuel efficient vehicles we might could extend out the party a little while longer?

I'm disappointed that our government is so knuckleheaded when it comes to banning all ready in production fuel efficient vehicles from other countries? They let motorcycles in and they are way more dangerous than little small cars.

I'm betting that a 75 mile to the gallon city car could easily be produced using our current level of technology. It could even be designed as a "one person" vehicle made especially for running errands in cities and towns.

Art
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"I don't even think Art would want this one."
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11381094/9/10-worst-cars-of-a......
intercst

Yeah, I kind of do. <grin!> I could use it to run over to Mi-ma's house on the back roads between here and Christiana where MIL lives. It would be fun to drive.


The Isetta was cute. I knew a guy who would drive up to a group, open the door (opened to the front) , get out and say, "Take me to your leader!"

Well, it seemed humorous at the time.

Count Upp
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Art" "I was just thinking that if we could convince enough people to switch over to smaller more fuel efficient vehicles we might could extend out the party a little while longer? "

Ever hear of Jevon's Paradox?

Way back when , in the days of coal..... Jevon proposed that as the cost of using energy declined.....the amount of energy used actually increased.

As folks had more 'productivity' using more fuel.....they used it..more efficiently.


Thus....if cars are double the current efficiency......Jevon's paradox predicts that since more work can get done by more folks using more cars......that even more energy will be used.....

Remember those 1.3 billion folks in China just waiting to buy a car and drive.

If you and the rest of us use half as much oil...the price of oil will drop....which will mean that all those folks in China will be able to afford cars and afford to drive them lots of miles, doing business. And in the end...more oil will be burned by more folks driving and producing goods and increasing the economy.

The more efficiently you use energy - the more you wind up using. If folks heating and cooling bills drop in half, they can now afford to heat and cool twice as much house.... and on and on...they can afford to buy a bigger car......that gets the same mileage as the old one...rather than buying a mini-car that gets 50% more mileage.....




t.
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"The more efficiently you use energy - the more you wind up using. If folks heating and cooling bills drop in half, they can now afford to heat and cool twice as much house.... and on and on...they can afford to buy a bigger car......that gets the same mileage as the old one...rather than buying a mini-car that gets 50% more mileage." - tele


Yeah, that's probably true. Most folks aren't as cheap and frugal as I am. I wish I drove an even more fuel efficient car than I do. 31/37 mpg (city/highway) is okay but one day I might get a wild hair and go out and buy a Prius or something that does even better?

Art
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"The more efficiently you use energy - the more you wind up using. If folks heating and cooling bills drop in half, they can now afford to heat and cool twice as much house.... and on and on...they can afford to buy a bigger car......that gets the same mileage as the old one...rather than buying a mini-car that gets 50% more mileage." - tele
.................
Yeah, that's probably true. Most folks aren't as cheap and frugal as I am. I wish I drove an even more fuel efficient car than I do. 31/37 mpg (city/highway) is okay but one day I might get a wild hair and go out and buy a Prius or something that does even better?
Art
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I think it was once true that people would upgrade the size of their house or their car. I think those days are basically over. Sure, there are some people who are well off enough to upgrade no matter what, but the collapse of the housing market has affected at least a generation to rethink what they are doing re buying a house. Same thing goes to cars. The younger generation sees the hand writing on the wall. They believe in climate change. They don't believe the future is all rosy re retirement. I believe the vast majority of people are going to be much more cautious.
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LindyLib: "I think it was once true that people would upgrade the size of their house or their car."

And a lot will. Even those younger people, who initially live in apartments and may not own a car...as soon as the first kid comes along want a house with a back yard for the kid and he dog. They need a car since they moved to suburbia with good schools.

And if they stay in a smaller house, or have no kids, now they have the money to travel the country and travel the world, burning kilotons of jet fuel like intercst as he flies tens of thousands a miles a year, then goes on cruise ships that get 1.5 feet per gallon of fuel as they cruise around,winding up in the same spot as they started, after burning a half million gallons of fuel in the process.


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" I think those days are basically over."

Nope...try and sell a 2 bedroom 1 bath house..... folks want 3-4-5 bedrooms still. Maybe not 5 and 3 living areas.....but other than CA and NYC and other crammed in places....folks will buy the biggest house they can afford when they go house shopping.

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" Sure, there are some people who are well off enough to upgrade no matter what, but the collapse of the housing market has affected at least a generation to rethink what they are doing re buying a house. "

With interest rates at historical lows....if you qualify for a loan...the payments are as low as they will ever be.....

And my nephew and his wife just moved to a 'nicer bigger apartment'....a 'luxury one'....probably will need more energy to run the place...... heck, he's got a kilowatt of computer stuff running all the time....



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"Same thing goes to cars. The younger generation sees the hand writing on the wall. They believe in climate change. They don't believe the future is all rosy re retirement"

A good part of the 'younger generation' is living in their parents basement with their degrees in Womyn's Gender Studies and the like...unable to find a job. They can't afford a used Yugo or the insurance payments on it.

THey might believe in 'global warming' but it doesn't stop them from going to the rain forest in COsta Rica to moan about it...burning up a kiloton of jet fuel in the process.....or driving their mini SUVs to Green Peace rallies.......

And I doubt most of them would really jump for joy if gas here went to European prices like Obama wants.... $9 or $10/gallon. it would probably kill their $8.75/hr part time jobs at the fast food place as folks wouldn't half the money to spend on fast food.

By the time they are 30, the ones smart enough to find/have jobs will be converted to the Romney capitalist camp...... the ones not so smart will stay 'progressive' , maybe get a job in government if they are lucky , or an $8.50/hr part time job as a community organizer or working for ACORN......and try to live on that.

They'll consume more energy - directly or indirectly, if the price of energy drops.


t.
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