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Osteopaths (in the UK for this example) are well placed as more holistic professionals....

You should be aware that osteopaths, as the term is understood in the UK, practise quite differently from DOs here in the US......who receive an education that's to all intents and purposes the equivalent to MDs. They now routinely take the same licensing exams, do the same residency and fellowship programmes as MRS and are represented in pretty much all the specialties. Most of the physicians at our primary care (GP's) practice are DOs......although my and my husband's cardiology team are all MDs as are the physicians and surgeons on my husband's transplant team (where he's the transplant hepatologist, not patient) so maybe there's a ceiling.FWIW

However, as useful as this insight might be for you, I'm responding mainly to pick your brains. Back in our days in the UK (pre 1985) osteopaths.(including my mum's and my husband's) worked independently of the NHS whereas all the physios of my acquaintance (including, but not limited to my husband's uncle) were all hospital based. That doesn't appear to be the case now. I know a chunk of what were formerly NHS services have been sold off to private companies but I understand that there's also now a fee for some of this?
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Hey Rune,

I've just nipped across the pond to have a look at Fool.com and found your interesting and very informative board.

Welcome!

I've noticed that we advocate a lot more therapies than you do...

I've noticed that too and in my personal, non-educated opinion, I think it's because y'all and y'all's MDs are more liberal in the different types of therapies and treatments y'all're willing to try. I wish our MDs would feel the same way.

Looking forward to reading more posts here and maybe contributing too if there's anything I can add that may help.

I'm more of a lurker than contributor myself, but would be happy to have another Foolish poster join us here.

ßillƒ
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I've noticed that we advocate a lot more therapies than you do,


The CAM community here in the U.S. advocates a variety of therapies. What you see on this particular discussion board isn't representative of that perspective. It's fantastic that you've taken the time and effort to do that wonderfully descriptive/informative list of so many modalities! Don't have the time to read it all with the appropriate thoroughness right now, but the one item I'd suggest adding is Cranial-sacral massage therapy. My one comment is that the Pilates description is extremely limited. I've been doing Pilates for quite a few years, and it's not just tiny movements, and it's far more comprehensive than the impression in the given description. Overall though, what a wonderful service you do in providing that "primer"!

Welcome here, Rune!

How did you come to be so involved and knowledgeable? I'd love to know!


sheila
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I too just had time to glance thru your list, but you also left out, red, infrared light therapy. Dr. Lawrence Wilson has a book about it.

Stockbuyer2
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but you also left out, red, infrared light therapy.


First I've heard of it.


sheila
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"First I've heard of it."

I posted about it about 1 1/2 years ago here on the boards. I'm not positive but I think you replied to my post about it.

Stockbuyer2
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"First I've heard of it."
-------------------------
I posted about it about 1 1/2 years ago here on the boards. I'm not positive but I think you replied to my post about it.



So I did. And I actually managed to find it, almost immediately, with the Search function--to my astonishment! My response, though, wasn't about infrared therapy itself, ie....

****
YOU SAID: I've noticed that some of the products that are marketed say that they are FDA approved. Does that really mean anything? In other words, has the FDA determined that infrared light does relieve pain?

I SAID: FDA review and approval of equipment doesn't have anywhere near the rigor they bring to drugs.

Have you tried acupuncture?
****

sheila
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I talked with my doctor about the light therapy.

I've since had my husband build me a red, infrared light sauna. It works great on my pain. It also relaxes me so well that I usually fall asleep for most of my time in it. I have an alarm to make sure I don't stay in too long, plus one of my family members is also around and aware I'm in there.

"So I did. And I actually managed to find it, almost immediately, with the Search function--to my astonishment!"

That is pretty amazing!!!! LOL!!



Stockbuyer2
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Takin' us a bit OT here for y'all's benefit...

And I actually managed to find it, almost immediately, with the Search function--to my astonishment!

TMF's new search engine, Google, werks purty good IF the post is older than...I dunno 'cause now I'm guessin'...six months, or more. Anythin' more recent doesn't seem to be found so easily.

I could go into deep detail as to why I "think" this is happening, but the main point is: The older the post/thread, the easier it is to "find" it. :-)

ßillƒ
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I've since had my husband build me a red, infrared light sauna. It works great on my pain.

Info and links would be greatly appreciated. :-)

ßillƒ
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Hi ßillƒ,

Thank-you for that warm welcome :-)

I've noticed that too and in my personal, non-educated opinion, I think it's because y'all and y'all's MDs are more liberal in the different types of therapies and treatments y'all're willing to try. I wish our MDs would feel the same way.

Our healthcare system's a lot different, great for acute things but not so hot for chronic conditions, for example arthritis. Aside from painkillers that don't always take the pain away and a short course of physio/exercise that may involve months of waiting to join, or a replacement joint operation that can have a waiting list of around 2 years, the system has little else to offer, so people look elsewhere for pain relief and being treated like a person not a statistic. There are some forms of acupuncture available for pain-relief but it's a much different form to the traditional chinese medicine. MD's and GP's are all individuals, some welcome therapies that can act in conjunction with their treatments and some decry all of them without bothering to investigate them. It seems to be a location type lottery as to which type of medic you get here, none are 'holistic' in essence.

Perhaps these practitioners may meet your needs?
http://www.holisticmedicine.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=1

I may be more lurker than contributor, too, depending on what subjects come up.

Thank-you again,

Rune
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Hi Sheila,

The CAM community here in the U.S. advocates a variety of therapies. What you see on this particular discussion board isn't representative of that perspective.

Oops, sorry, hope I've not put my foot in it! Please can you outline for me the subjects that are on-topic here. I get confused by the definition Alternative as it means different things to different people.

Osteopathy in the UK is now regarded as an Alternative medical treatment, alternative in the UK meaning outside the control of allopathy but practised by highly qualified people as they have decided voluntarily to become regulated and can now diagnose certain conditions without any referral to doctors and their services can be had as a direct alternative to established medical ones.
http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/registration/
Osteopathy is no longer classed as complementary, so I didn't include them in my list.
Complementary therapies in the UK means the ones which will work in conjunction with allopathic medicine and complementary therapy practitioners are forbidden to diagnose anything.
Usually, only therapists are aware of this definition of alternative and complementary, most others from the media to the man in the street happily interchange the terminology.

Apologies for the poor Pilates coverage, my experience is only gleaned from practising with a couple of videos and talking to an instructor who is mainly a physiotherapist. From a couple of books I've subsequently bought and read, I understand there's a much more mindful side to Pilates, rather like Yoga, but I don't have enough experience or knowledge to expand. Perhaps when you have time ..?

Welcome here, Rune!

Thank-you :-)

How did you come to be so involved and knowledgeable? I'd love to know!

As briefly as I can. I'd always been interested in a natural lifestyle then through my closest family members having conditions that conventional medicine couldn't treat without serious adverse effects, I started off totally clueless dealing with serious infant eczema and food intolerances. That led to a look at diet and its effects, then later side-effects from conventional medication became a big issue and led me to learn about buying then preparing and using herbal remedies. First aid was another bugbear so I studied aromatherapy from books and learned how to treat the family's cuts and bumps and bruises, coughs colds and fevers by making salves, balms, ointments, syrups and tinctures often from plants grown in my own garden. I live in a quiet rural area miles from anywhere so when I can get to classes I like to do other things that will benefit the whole family, I've done a few months of Yoga, I've studied and practise Reiki and EFT, I've done - so far - half a course on crystal healing and met many other practitioners of different modalities or people who have had a go at different ones. I'll incorporate anything that will benefit my family, one of whom suffers with chronic pain. Somewhere along the line, learning difficulties appeared - I'm positive it's NLD but that's not recognised in the UK as a diagnosis so, off I went again on another steep learning curve and that led to study of things like Brain Gym and Alexander Technique which can help enormously.

That's the last 15 years of my life in as short a precis as I can. It's by no means been a constant hard slog, it's been interesting and we've all had a lot of fun along the way and learned so much.

Rune
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Hi Stockbuyer2,

I've never heard of this therapy as you describe it in the form of a sauna.

Infra-red lamps have been part of physiotherapists' equipment for the last 20+ years, they are used near a painful area of the body for a certain length of time and the heat penetrates deeply and relieves the pain.

What sort of pain do you have?

I'll second Sheila and say acupuncture is a good therapy for pain-relief.

So is a TENS machine and as much relaxation therapy as you can get. Although it's called a machine, it's a small battery operated control device you can hold in your hand or clip to your belt with two or four small self-adhesive pads on wires from it that attach to the area that's painful.

This is a picture and description, not a recommendation of this particular model, it's just from a Google hit for some information for you.

http://4giftsdirect.com/gift/Dual-Channel-T.E.N.S.-Machine-Pain-Relief/2042.htm

Rune
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Osteopathy in the UK is now regarded as an Alternative medical treatment, alternative in the UK meaning outside the control of allopathy but practised by highly qualified people as they have decided voluntarily to become regulated and can now diagnose certain conditions without any referral to doctors and their services can be had as a direct alternative to established medical ones.
http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/registration/
Osteopathy is no longer classed as complementary, so I didn't include them in my list.


You should be aware of a big distinction between osteopathy as it's practised in the UK and here in the US.

British osteopaths have for the most part always confined their practise to musculo-skeletal stuff without attempting to expand into what you call "allopathy" (aka "medicine") The training programme in no way parallels that of physicians and their scope of practice doesn't resemble general medical care.

Here in the US, although osteopathy had its origins in a slightly "fringe" form of chiropractic type of manipulation, the training requirements and licensing demands are similar to that of an MD. Obviously schools of osteopathy don't have the physical infrastructure of a medical school, but students receive their clinical training alonside medical students at accredited medical schools (not places like Harvard or Cornell....come to think of it, I don' t know which ones that do provide these resources but they go somewhere) As a consequence, DO's (Doctors of Osteopathy) can practise general medicine...pretty indistinguishable from MDs but for their qualification.
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"I've never heard of this therapy as you describe it in the form of a sauna.

Infra-red lamps have been part of physiotherapists' equipment for the last 20+ years, they are used near a painful area of the body for a certain length of time and the heat penetrates deeply and relieves the pain.

What sort of pain do you have?

I'll second Sheila and say acupuncture is a good therapy for pain-relief.

So is a TENS machine and as much relaxation therapy as you can get. Although it's called a machine, it's a small battery operated control device you can hold in your hand or clip to your belt with two or four small self-adhesive pads on wires from it that attach to the area that's painful."



Here's a link to Dr. Wilson's website on the light sauna.

http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/sauna_therapy.htm

I have a severe form of Chronic Myofascial Pain with some Fibromyalgia symptoms. A tens unit is not suggested for my condition, but thanks for the suggestion. I'm always looking for things to help my condition.

Yes, I've done just about everything from acupuncture, to Oxycodone, to spray and stretch, to steroid injections. The steroids helped some for about two months.

I'm having some luck controlling my pain with daily massages outlined in the Trigger Point Therapy book by Clare Davies, massagers, Natural Calm, avoiding things that trigger my muscle spasms, my light sauna, plus a single red infrared light and a pain spray that I make myself.

Unfortunately besides flare ups, I'm still having difficulty walking without the muscle cramping. When the cramping starts if I don't stop walking the cramps will dislocate my ribs and collar bones.

If you think of anything else that might help, please let me know.

Stockbuyer2
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The CAM community here in the U.S. advocates a variety of therapies. What you see on this particular discussion board isn't representative of that perspective.
-============================-
Oops, sorry, hope I've not put my foot in it! Please can you outline for me the subjects that are on-topic here. I get confused by the definition Alternative as it means different things to different people.



No foot-in-mouth problem, Rune! "Discussion" means a great opportunity to learn about other ideas, people, cultures, etc.

Your definitions of "alternative" and "complementary" in the UK are very interesting. It's a much fuzzier situation here. Originally, everything not conventional medical treatment and thinking was termed "alternative." At some point in the 90s, the move started to call all of those modalities "complementary" instead, in an attempt to lessen the typical medical hostility and misunderstanding, and misunderstanding from the lay community too. "Alternative" gave the idea that these modalities were advocated as replacements for conventional medicine, an either/or scenario. "Complementary" was introduced to convey the reality that these modalities are frequently an ADDITION to conventional healthcare, not a substitution. But the use of "complementary" never succeeded in replacing "alternative," so "CAM" was born -- Complementary and Alternative Medicine -- to refer to it all.

A physician who practices "integrative" health care combines conventional and complementary modalities in his/her own practice. Some physicians do this within a general medical practice, and some are specialists.

As for this discussion board -- there are no limits in terms of questions and discussions.

And now for Pilates. Taken from the Pilates Method Alliance website (headed at the moment by the woman whose studio I work out at):

"Pilates is a full-body system of specific sequenced exercises performed on the mat and specially designed equipment. The method is centered around the concepts of awareness, balance, breath, centering, concentration, control, flowing movement, and precision. The principle of Pilates is to uniformly develop the body and mind."

The central elements are building the strength of the muscles that support you (abdominals, pelvic muscles), and proper spinal alignment. The machines and some of the mat work utilize resistance in a variety of ways. The goals are strength, flexibility, and improved joint range of motion, and body awareness. The equipment and exercises are incredibly modifieable for different body types, conditions, limitations, injuries, etc.

Your background is really admirable. It's terrific that you didn't accept the limitations of conventional medicine. And how exciting that you've become an herbalist! What plants do you grow?


sheila
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You should be aware of a big distinction between osteopathy as it's practised in the UK and here in the US.

British osteopaths have for the most part always confined their practise to musculo-skeletal stuff without attempting to expand into what you call "allopathy" (aka "medicine") The training programme in no way parallels that of physicians and their scope of practice doesn't resemble general medical care.

Here in the US, although osteopathy had its origins in a slightly "fringe" form of chiropractic type of manipulation, the training requirements and licensing demands are similar to that of an MD. Obviously schools of osteopathy don't have the physical infrastructure of a medical school, but students receive their clinical training alonside medical students at accredited medical schools (not places like Harvard or Cornell....come to think of it, I don' t know which ones that do provide these resources but they go somewhere) As a consequence, DO's (Doctors of Osteopathy) can practise general medicine...pretty indistinguishable from MDs but for their qualification.


Thank-you for that info Vee Enn, that explains an awful lot. I've had a Google around and think this site is informative,
http://www.aacom.org/

Rune
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Here's a link to Dr. Wilson's website on the light sauna.

http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/sauna_therapy.htm

I have a severe form of Chronic Myofascial Pain with some Fibromyalgia symptoms. A tens unit is not suggested for my condition, but thanks for the suggestion. I'm always looking for things to help my condition.

Yes, I've done just about everything from acupuncture, to Oxycodone, to spray and stretch, to steroid injections. The steroids helped some for about two months.

I'm having some luck controlling my pain with daily massages outlined in the Trigger Point Therapy book by Clare Davies, massagers, Natural Calm, avoiding things that trigger my muscle spasms, my light sauna, plus a single red infrared light and a pain spray that I make myself.


Thank-you for the link Stockbuyer2, it's an interesting concept and one I'm not familiar with. As to whether it can detox, I have no idea but I'm pretty sure the warmth will ease your condition considerably.

I have a friend with Fibromyalgia and she finds some ease with aromatherapy massage oils, I make some for her from "The Fragrant Pharmacy" by Valerie Ann Worwood - I misread her name as Valerian Wormwood, what a great name eh? - there's a section on ME which is about the closest to Fibro. I'd recommend the book anyway as it has so many comprehensive recipes for all types of conditions. The author's a clinical aromatherapist, as opposed to one who just does beauty treatments. The Muscle fatigue Formula on page 97 is the one she's found most effective so far. The book has many recipes for different types of pain.

I'm having some luck controlling my pain with daily massages outlined in the Trigger Point Therapy book by Clare Davies, massagers, Natural Calm, avoiding things that trigger my muscle spasms, my light sauna, plus a single red infrared light and a pain spray that I make myself.

What do you put in your pain-spray, please, it may also help my friend.

Your condition sounds agonising, I've heard good reports on the Trigger Point Therapy particularly for back pain.

My input, I'd advise you to try Reiki or Quantum Touch treatments to completely relax you, many therapists give their time gratis to people in chronic pain situations so ask around. I'd also advise you to try EFT to deal with the pain, it's a very effective technique and will often work where other things fail. Here's a link to get you started. If you want to treat yourself, then it's free, all the info you need is downloadable from this site.
http://www.emofree.com/articles.aspx?id=19

I hope you find ease,

Rune
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Here in the US, although osteopathy had its origins in a slightly "fringe" form of chiropractic type of manipulation, the training requirements and licensing demands are similar to that of an MD.... As a consequence, DO's (Doctors of Osteopathy) can practise general medicine...pretty indistinguishable from MDs but for their qualification.


But they--perhaps not all, but a fair number, I think--include manipulation among their treatment modalities.


sheila
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Hi Sheila,

Thank-you for the definitions and the info on Pilates, it's a much more involved regime than I'd previously thought.

Your background is really admirable. It's terrific that you didn't accept the limitations of conventional medicine. And how exciting that you've become an herbalist! What plants do you grow?

<blush> Thank-you. I just didn't seem to have any choice really, other than to go out and find different ways of giving the family something that would work and not do them any harm.

I don't have anything special in the garden and my herbal skills are solely picked-up from many books. I have plenty of nettles and I cut the fresh tops to make nettle tea, helpful as a detox or to stop itching. This is important, *never* make an infusuion with the larger older leaves, you could damage your kidneys. Older leaves should be boiled for at least 10 mins before eating as a vegetable. Nettles soaked in cold water for two weeks can also make a fertiliser for the garden.

Pot marigolds, Calendula Officinalis, wonderful for skin and wonderful for womens' health. we eat the petals in salad, one flower-head per person and they looks so lovely mixed with lettuce and green leaves. I make tincture which can then be taken orally or mixed with aqueous cream to form Calendula cream which is very soothing for sore skin.

Lavender, I grow the lovely Hidcote variety of Lavandula Angustifolia and cut and dry the flowers for use in baking. Whatever your favourite sponge cake recipe is, add a dessertspoonful of dried lavender flowers after mixing, bake and enjoy. Also, they are nice ground in a pestle and mortar and sprinkled on ice-cream or a frozen soya dessert like Swedish Glacé. there are several Lavender recipes on the 'net.

Mint, several varieties, I prefer the very strong one with the red stems and dark leaves, an infusion of this is a delight as it's such a divinely inspiring shade of green somehow. Good for settling a dicky tum and good for colds and flu,and lots more.

Thyme, the best thing I've found for coughs, as a syrup made with honey or as an infusion, it works for us.

Chamomile, for collecting the flowers to make a calming infusion or as an antibiotic and antiseptic wash when made strongly and mixed with a little bicarbonate of soda. It can stain the skin temporarily but it's a nice gentle solution.

If I want any special dried herbs for making medications, I buy them in as needed from organic producers.

Rune
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But they--perhaps not all, but a fair number, I think--include manipulation among their treatment modalities.

Well, I guess it depends if they're dealing with something that needs "manipulating" like backache.

If they're involved in general medical practice and are treating the sort of stuff you see in a general medical practice....kids with earache, pregnant mums-to-be, patients with high blood pressure....then "manipulation" would be a very strange treatment to be offering to say the least.
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But they--perhaps not all, but a fair number, I think--include manipulation among their treatment modalities.
=====================================
Well, I guess it depends if they're dealing with something that needs "manipulating" like backache.

If they're involved in general medical practice and are treating the sort of stuff you see in a general medical practice....kids with earache, pregnant mums-to-be, patients with high blood pressure....then "manipulation" would be a very strange treatment to be offering to say the least.



The essence of the osteopathic approach to the understanding of health problems and treating them is that musculoskeletal issues interfere with healthy neural function and circulation, especially in the spine. And actually, there appear to be data indicating benefit of osteopathic manipulations on blood pressure. I wasn't implying that most DO's use manipulation as their primary treatment for most problems, but that it is part of their repertory and can be used for more than back and neck pain.

The following information is taken from the section on osteopathy in the University of Maryland's extensive and well-researched website on complementary/alternative medicine:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/osteopathy-000358.htm

"Osteopathy is based on the belief that most diseases are related to problems in the musculoskeletal system and that structure and function of the body are inseparable. The musculoskeletal system is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones—all of which are interconnected and form the body's structure....

Today, doctors of osteopathy (D.O.s) receive the same basic training as medical doctors (M.D.s), and D.O.s also learn manipulation therapies (hands-on adjustments of muscles, bones, and ligaments) and use these in addition to more conventional medical treatments. Most D.O.s are primary care practitioners, specializing in family medicine, internal medicine, obstetrics/gynecology, or pediatrics. A few can be found in other medical specialties as well.... Although osteopathic manipulations were originally intended and used to treat all forms of disease, now they are mainly mainly considered useful for musculoskeletal conditions.

A visit to a D.O. is much like a visit to your family doctor. The D.O. will ask you questions about your medical history, physical condition, and lifestyle. However, because D.O.'s have particular expertise in musculoskeletal systems (namely, bones, joints, and soft tissues like ligaments and tendons), the physical exam of that bodily system will be more extensive than one with your family doctor. During the physical, the D.O. will assess your posture, spine, and balance; check your joints, muscles, tendons, and ligaments; and may use his or her hands to manipulate your back, legs, or arms. Variations in your skin temperature and sweat gland activity will also be measured. If needed, the D.O. will order X-rays and laboratory tests. When the results are in, the D.O. will make a diagnosis and establish a treatment plan for you that may even include prescriptions for medications.

For problems involving the bones, muscles, tendons, tissues, or spine, many current day (but not all) D.O.s use OMTs (osteopathic manipulation techniques). There are two categories of OMT procedures: direct and indirect. In direct OMT, "problem" or "tight" tissues are moved (by the D.O., the person being treated, or both) toward the areas of tightness or restricted movement. In indirect OMT, the D.O. pushes the "tight" tissues away from the area of restricted movement, in the opposite direction of the muscle's resistance. He or she holds the tissues in this position until the tight muscle relaxes.

MTs can be applied to a variety of health problems, both musculoskeletal and non-musculoskeletal. According to the US Department of Health and Human Services, OMTs are most effective for back and neck pain. In fact, if you have back pain, you may be able to reduce the amount of pain medication you are taking if you receive OMT as part of your therapy. One study showed that patients with pancreatitis were able to go home from the hospital sooner when they had OMT.

In one small study, people with Parkinson's disease were able to walk better after only one session of OMT. Another study looked at 38 patients who had knee surgery. Those who had OMT were able to walk up stairs 20% earlier than those who did not have OMT.

A study of 100 people with high blood pressure treated only with OMT showed that OMT produced significant reductions in blood pressure.

Studies show that OMT eases breathing, drains the sinuses and relieves the symptoms, duration, and recurrence of the common cold.

Osteopathy may also be an effective way to treat carpal tunnel syndrome. More studies are needed to confirm this.

Examples of other conditions for which OMT may be helpful include:

stress-related problems (such as tension headaches, muscle spasm)
strains and sprains (especially of the neck and back)
shoulder pain
osteoarthritis
headaches
painful menstruation
injuries (such as whiplash)
scoliosis (side to side curvature of the spine)
infantile colic
insomnia "



sheila
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The essence of the osteopathic approach to the understanding of health problems and treating them is that musculoskeletal issues interfere with healthy neural function and circulation, especially in the spine.

This was the founding philosophy of osteopathic medicine 150+ years ago. You'll see the same philosophy repeated in much of the AOA literature....and in some of the questionable marketing of some osteopaths....however, the problem with 150 year old philosophies is that they're often based on outdated dogma and ignore basic fundamentals of what we now know about how the body works.

I know a handful of ostepoaths from my former medical building....well enough to know their practising philosophy, that is....and the OMT part of their course, although it was treated like the Holy Grail by the guys who were teaching it, was apparently considered more of a historical hang up by most of the students and, in their general medical practice, was definitely not something they'd incorporate. That was a relief to me, BTW, as my interest in their background was from the perspective of someone wishing to have a recommendation for any patients looking for a primary care physician......once I'd reassured them they weren't going to an eye doctor, that is!!

Interestingly, the wife of one of my husband's (English) GI fellows was an osteopath in England and she managed to secure a teaching job at the NY College of Osteopathy right near our old home in Glen Head. She thought this OMT stuff was a bit odd as the graduates learning this as a "science" were, for all legal purposes, able to practice alongside her husband (although it's highly unlikely they'd match for a competitive post grad course at a competitive school) I managed not to point out that this is was an institution that accepts teaching faculty whose training has been totally different from that of her students....and who doesn't even have a green card (I'm thinking of the hoops dh has gone through for accreditiation the Harvard's faculty)....so what would you expect.
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I know a handful of ostepoaths from my former medical building....well enough to know their practising philosophy, that is....and the OMT part of their course, although it was treated like the Holy Grail by the guys who were teaching it, was apparently considered more of a historical hang up by most of the students and, in their general medical practice, was definitely not something they'd incorporate.

Interesting. The osteopaths I know consider the hands-on manipulation to be of great value, and they have also gone on to expand their repertoire of hands-on techniques--which they have integrated with the modalities of conventional medical practice.

Perhaps the attitude and practice depends on why an individual chose to become an osteopathic physician in the first place. If it's regarded merely as a back door to an MD because they couldn't make the grade for med school (like an older cousin of mine, who was also a seriously overweight obesity specialist!), then I assume they'd disregard everything that doesn't seem regular white coat, unless they had some sort of epiphany. But there are others who choose the DO route over the MD path specifically because of the hands-on work. They don't seem to abandon it.


sheila
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Interesting. The osteopaths I know consider the hands-on manipulation to be of great value, and they have also gone on to expand their repertoire of hands-on techniques--which they have integrated with the modalities of conventional medical practice.

Most individuals develope their practice along lines that suit their own personality and appeal to and benefit the population that forms their patient base....nothing wrong with that as far as it goes.

However, the opening paragraph from the site you linked to says it all in regard to how the DO's I'm talking about view the OMT dogma

"Osteopathy is based on the belief that most diseases are related to problems in the musculoskeletal system and that structure and function of the body are inseparable. The musculoskeletal system is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones—all of which are interconnected and form the body's structure.... (my italics)

Now, back when osteopathy was in its infancy, such a statement might've passed muster.....so called "conventional medicine" didn't have a much better handle on how the body worked over and above basic anatomy and physiology...but to continue to "believe" that "most" diseases are related to problems in the musculoskeletal system, as if this constitutes a corpus of special knowledge and information only possessed by osteopaths and only available if OMT has been part of your core curriculum as an osteopath is pure flim-flam. We now know that it just ain't so.

For diseases that do have roots in problems in the musculoskeletal system, I don't doubt the special training is of huge benefit. Probably a nice addition to a good many other complaints that happen tp crop up. However, if this is a core belief directing a treatment philosophy (which is a questionable strategy in itself) then it would require an individual to ignore pretty much every scrap of evidence based information out there that's been gathered over the past 150+ years in fields such as physiology, bacteriology, immunology, genetics.....and so on and so forth.
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(my italics)

Oooops....I meant "bold"
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Hey Rune,

Thank-you for that warm welcome

Yer welcome.

Our healthcare system's a lot different, great for acute things but not so hot for chronic conditions, for example arthritis.

Sounds kinda like the workers comp company I have to deal with. They're always looking for a way to dump me and I have to stay on my toes and keep an eye on them all the time. *sigh*

Perhaps these practitioners may meet your needs?
www.holisticmedicine.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=1


Looks very interesting. I'll hafta add a link to their site on mine.

I may be more lurker than contributor, too, depending on what subjects come up.

Not a problem. The regulars don't seem to mind me hangin' out here, so y'all should be fine. :-)

ßillƒ
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I think all the musculoskeletal professions, physiotherapy, chiropractic and osteopathy, are modernising due to the weight of evidence coming through about the functioning of pain systems and what makes us have problems with our backs, necks and joints.

Osteopaths (in the UK for this example) are well placed as more holistic professionals, listening to the patient’s story and taking into account all the different facets of their presentation before making a plan of treatment. Hands-on techniques, while important, are not enough anymore on their own. There are many places you can find an osteopath to help you, such as at https://www.local-osteo.co.uk/

The idea that manipulating a joint can fix a problem is fading as individual therapies, i.e. one type of intervention, have been shown to be less effective than combining for example manipulation with exercises and cognitive behavioural therapy.

Our attitudes, understanding and beliefs have huge effects on our pain and our levels of disability, indicating that therapists need to address the cognitive aspects of a person’s presentation very seriously if they are to have any effect on their problems.
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Physiotherapy (or physical therapy in the US), chiropractic, and osteopathy aren't the only musculoskeletal professions. There are various types of massage therapy, which includes trigger point massage, deep tissue massage, and others. There is tui-na massage therapy, which is a traditional Chinese approach and can do absolutely amazing things for injuries, healing, pain (acute and chronic) without being combined with other interventions. There are special techniques for physical therapy for back issues. There is Feldenkreis Therapy, which is very hands on and involves a kind of brain-muscle "relearning" to replace injurious ways of moving with beneficial ones, and it can also be very "liberating." (I've experienced it.) There is cranial-sacral massage, which comes from osteopathic medicine and has been incorporated into some massage practices. And when it comes to osteopathic medicine, that actually involves much more than simply hands-on practices. It includes nutrition, medication when appropriate, etc etc etc. And I would also include acupuncture in this overall category, which can be pretty amazing. I've experienced profound anti-pain benefits with nothing else but acupuncture.

My one complaint when it comes to physical therapy is that there are too few who truly understand how to work with the body to resolve problems. Too focused on the symptom and not nearly enough on the fundamental cause. Good ones are incredible, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

That being said, your emphasis on the importance of these hands-on interventions is so well placed.

It's also so gratifying to see someone posting here! I had begun this board a good number of years ago, but an argumentative, insulting voice--from someone who rejects anything that is not conventional healthcare--had eventually appeared, who made it so unpleasant, regardless of the topics raised, that everyone was chased away.

Maybe we can breathe new life into it!

=sheila
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Osteopaths (in the UK for this example) are well placed as more holistic professionals....

You should be aware that osteopaths, as the term is understood in the UK, practise quite differently from DOs here in the US......who receive an education that's to all intents and purposes the equivalent to MDs. They now routinely take the same licensing exams, do the same residency and fellowship programmes as MRS and are represented in pretty much all the specialties. Most of the physicians at our primary care (GP's) practice are DOs......although my and my husband's cardiology team are all MDs as are the physicians and surgeons on my husband's transplant team (where he's the transplant hepatologist, not patient) so maybe there's a ceiling.FWIW

However, as useful as this insight might be for you, I'm responding mainly to pick your brains. Back in our days in the UK (pre 1985) osteopaths.(including my mum's and my husband's) worked independently of the NHS whereas all the physios of my acquaintance (including, but not limited to my husband's uncle) were all hospital based. That doesn't appear to be the case now. I know a chunk of what were formerly NHS services have been sold off to private companies but I understand that there's also now a fee for some of this?
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