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Although the data is only through 2015, the active immigration flow map at the following link shows in graphic terms exactly which countries immigrants moved to and which countries were immigrants moved from during the period 2010-2015:

http://metrocosm.com/global-immigration-map/

Pretty interesting.

Even more interesting would be a map showing the same information for 2017.
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Best piece of Macro Economic data I have seen in a while.

Cheers

Qazulight
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The maps pretty much illustrate what one would expect: people flow to places where they have a better opportunity. To rip an example from the current news, if you live in Norway, the opportunity delta vs the US is not that great. If you live in Haiti, the opportunity delta is huge. A Norwegian might not be very motivated to move here, but a Haitian would put op with significant hardship, to the point of risking his life, to get here.

Here is the anti-chain immigration TV ad that started running locally last week, crying about how one "amnesty" immigrant can bring in a long line of other immigrants, and closes crying about a whole 250,000 people coming into the US through chain immigration per year.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wssu/numbersusa-chain-migration

Steve
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A Norwegian might not be very motivated to move here,

Steve





From Fareed's Global Briefing

http://mailchi.mp/cnn/fareed-what-bannon-got-right?e=9182149...

Norway to US: We’re just not that into you? Trump allegedly expressed a preference for immigrants from Norway in Thursday’s meeting on immigration. The problem? Norwegians aren’t really interested in coming here, suggests Krishnadev Calamur in The Atlantic.

“Norway is the world’s happiest country (the US ranks 14), the place with the most political freedom (the US ranks 45), most press freedom (the U.S. ranks 43rd), and most prosperity (the US ranks 18). Simply put, there’s little economic incentive for Norwegians to immigrate to the US.

“That’s true not just of Norway, but of all Western European countries that have become more prosperous over the past several decades. European immigration to the US has fallen dramatically, and the place of European immigrants have been taken by those from Asia, Latin America, and Africa.”


So while I'm sure the Norwegians appreciate the F-52 fighters y'all sold them they are not going to emigrate to the US.


Tim < goo.gl/3VYpY7 >
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So while I'm sure the Norwegians appreciate the F-52 fighters y'all sold them they are not going to emigrate to the US.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Anyone wanting to immigrate to Canada would have to pass a strict merit test, and have a lot of money in the bank. No chain immigration.
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Anyone wanting to immigrate to Canada would have to pass a strict merit test,

Wow, I had no idea: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-can...



and have a lot of money in the bank.

Not true for the majority of immigrant classes. Those with job offers or special skills need only enough to not show up on our welfare rolls.

The exception I'm sort of aware of is this one though I think there have been changes since last I read up on it. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...

Then these people have to be met at the airport and given warm winter coats (in at least one photo op the PM was personally issuing coats. }};-D https://globalnews.ca/video/2394633/welcome-to-your-new-home...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/record-number-of-refugees-admi...


No chain immigration.


Your right, we call it family reunification.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/ne...


... but since you didn't ask ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada

Actually better to go to the government of Canada websites. Oh if you speak French Quebec will send a Bombardier business jet to pick you up (OK I'm joking but only slightly).

Tim
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Interesting graphic/map. I noticed that there was one slow moving line LEAVING the USA. Tried to follow it and it seems to land on Luxembourg.

JLC
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Anyone wanting to immigrate to Canada would have to pass a strict merit test, and have a lot of money in the bank.

THAT'S the way to do it. IIRC Australia does immigration that way too.

The main problem we have here in the USA is that we have little to no control over our southern border.
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The main problem we have here in the USA is that we have little to no control over our southern border.

Thing is, all that the wall and infrared sensors, and drones, and TV cameras will do is make profits for the contractors. They will *not* "secure the border".

There was an escape at the Michigan maximum security prison in Jackson in 1975. A highjacked helo landed in the exercise yard, in full view of a guard tower, picked up the prisoner and flew off. How did this happen? There was no guard in the tower, only a TV camera. A TV camera cannot prevent anything.

No matter how high that wall is built, people wanting in will weld together a ladder long enough to reach the top. There is a really big wall on the border south of San Diego. Border Patrol agents find abandoned ladders next to it all the time.

Same thing along the Rio Grande Valley

The US already has a border wall and it’s basically useless

“We came with this 18-foot wall, and the very next day they had 19-foot ladders,” Cabrera recalled recently. “It got to the point where we had so many ladders at the station that they told us to stop bringing the ladders in. It was just insane the number of ladders we had. Hundreds upon hundreds.”


https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/7xepxb/the-us-already-ha...

The only way to "secure" that border is to do it the way the East Germans did it: lay a minefield and post guards 24/7 that have eyes on every inch of the wall, with orders to shoot to kill.

Are you up for that?

Steve
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... post guards 24/7 that have eyes on every inch of the wall,

Fun with numbers:

So how many people would it take to man the wall 24/7? The guards need to be able to see every inch of the wall, and respond within moments when they see someone coming over the top. I figure a 100 yard segment of the wall would be a good start for each person's patrol zone.

The border is 6,4011 miles. That makes 1,126,593.6 sections of 100 yards each.

People need to sleep, so figure three guards for each segment. We're up to a guard force of 3.3M, and that is with everyone working 7 days/wk with no vacations or sick time. The combined Army National Guard force of all the states and territories is a tenth of that number.

Maybe GenDyne could develop a version of the old German S mine, except, instead of spraying shrapnel, they spray indelible, florescent, radioactive die so the people thus sprayed can be easily detected and rounded up. They could probably figure it out in 30 years, with about $40B in "development" funding. Of course, then the people coming across would be wearing plastic coveralls that would catch the dye, then be discarded, but GenDyne wouldn't mention that in their presentation to the pols whose pockets are stuffed with "protected free speech".

Steve
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The main problem we have here in the USA is that we have little to no control over our southern border.

I don't know if that is the main problem. The large majority of illegal immigrants arrive at legal checkpoints and then overstay their visas.

Crossing the border is not the way "the large majority of persons now become undocumented," the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) said in a recent report. Two-thirds of those who joined the undocumented population did so by entering with a valid visa and then overstaying their period of admission, the center repored.

Overstays have exceeded those entering illegally every year since 2007, and there have been half a million more overstays than illegal entries since 2007.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber...

The border wall seems to be the perfect bureaucratic solution. It gives political cover to politicians who can point to at all the money they are spending, but without them having to making any decisions regarding the real problems. At the same time, politicians get to lavish huge contracts on their donors, without actually needing a deliverable.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/boeing-virtual-fence-30-billion...

Boeing stock is up 100%. Coincidence?
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The border is 6,4011 miles.

Are you sure about that?

Aside from the obvious presence of an unspecified typo (meaning I don't know for certain what you intended to say but definitely know you didn't type it correctly)...

National Geographic https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160304-us-mexico... says it's about 3,200 *kilometers*, which is less than 2,000 miles.

Even the US-Canada border is only 5,525 miles. And it's the world's longest land border between two countries.

For the sake of argument let's go with your idea of a guard every 100 yards. A mile doesn't divide evenly into 100-yard segments, so I'll round up - which favors YOUR argument, not mine.

And you're right that only three shifts of border patrol officers is not going to work. The usual approach is to assume four shifts. I'll tilt things further in your favor by going for five.

At 18 guards per mile, that's less than 36,000 guards per shift (and I'll round up again). Allowing five shifts, that's 180,000 border patrol agents. Rather less than the 3.3. million you postulate (with only three shifts). In fact they can double up and still be barely over 1/10 your estimate.
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The border wall seems to be the perfect bureaucratic solution. It gives political cover to politicians who can point to at all the money they are spending, but without them having to making any decisions regarding the real problems.


Actually illegal immigration and the border are easily solved. The major reason people are crossing the border is to get a job paying an adequate salary? So start jailing and major fines for people who give them jobs without checking their status? Works for us, according to RK there are probably about 20,000 illegals in Canada mostly working in the sex trade.

Next problem?
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According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the length of the International Boundary line of the U.S.-Canadian border, excluding Alaska, is approximately 3,987 miles, while the length of the U.S.-Mexican border is estimated at 1,933 miles. The length of the Alaska-Canada border alone is 1,538 miles.Nov 9, 2006
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So start jailing and major fines for people who give them jobs without checking their status?

Tim, Tim, obviously we CAN'T do that. To do that we would have to issue an actual reliable national identity card for all our citizens and legal residents, and then, uhm, well, voter registration becomes obsolete and all those, uhm, citizens who haven't been able to jump through all the ad hoc identity systems required to vote would, uhm, vote.

And business should never be liable for anything. Ever. Not their job.

Sheeesh. Sometimes you Canadians are sooooooo simple.


david fb
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

So start jailing and major fines for people who give them jobs without checking their status?

Tim, Tim, obviously we CAN'T do that. To do that we would have to issue an actual reliable national identity card for all our citizens and legal residents, and then, uhm, well, voter registration becomes obsolete and all those, uhm, citizens who haven't been able to jump through all the ad hoc identity systems required to vote would, uhm, vote.

And business should never be liable for anything. Ever. Not their job.

Sheeesh. Sometimes you Canadians are sooooooo simple.


david fb



Yes I know, who would pick the fruit in California, who would butcher the cows and pigs, who would keep those nice green lawns watered while emptying the aquifers, who would install those nice granite counters, ... why they might have to do what we do and pay our own people a decent wage to do these jobs? }};-@

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job
Trump’s immigration crackdown is supposed to help U.S. citizens. For California farmers, it’s worsening a desperate labor shortage.


By NATALIE KITROEFF AND GEOFFREY MOHAN

MARCH 17, 2017 | REPORTING FROM STOCKTON, CALIF.


I just like to point out the hypocrisy occasionally.

Tim
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So how many people would it take to man the wall 24/7?

For gender equality they should woman the wall!

The Captain
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Are you sure about that?

Aside from the obvious presence of an unspecified typo


Yes, the zero is surplus.

National Geographic https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160304-us-mexico...... says it's about 3,200 *kilometers*, which is less than 2,000 miles

I typed in "length of US border with Mexico" and Google gave me this:

Mexico–United States border
The Mexico–United States border is an international border separating Mexico and the United States, extending from the Pacific Ocean to the west and Gulf of Mexico to the east. Wikipedia
Length: 6,411' 0? (miles)
Current shape: December 30, 1853


https://www.google.com/search?q=length+of+us+border+with+mex...

Thanks to Warrl for pointing out the bad data.

The Wiki entry says:

The total length of the continental border is 3,201 kilometers (1,989 mi).

So, 1989 miles x 5280 feet/mile = 10501920' = 3500640 yards or 35006.4 surveillance zones.

Total border patrol staff approx 20-21,000

Total National Guard of all states and territories combined 332,721.

Each Guardsman can be fingered to spend his two weeks/year of active duty on the wall, so 332,721 divided by 26 periods makes about 12,797 bodies available/period. At three shifts a day, that covers 4,265 surveillance zones, leaving only 30,741 for the Border Patrol to cover.

Reportedly, Border Patrol agents start at $49,000/yr, so this starts to run into real money.

How about reinstituting the draft to get people on the wall for $18,000/yr, about what an Army E1 starts at? Thing is, it's a draft, so it's not like the wall would be competing with burger flipping jobs for bodies, so maybe start them at $10,000/yr?

But, they are draftees, so a lot of them would spend their shift sitting alone in their watchtower, asleep or stoned. Put two or three in each tower and they will as likely all be asleep or stoned, as keeping each-other awake and sober, and that would cost a lot more than one in a tower.

'course, could staff the watchtowers with nutter militias. iirc some areas already have nutter militias patrolling, to the great discomfort of the Border Patrol. The militias would be more motivated to stay awake and sober, but probably a lot more likely to open fire if they saw brown boogymen coming over the wall. And, do we have enough nutters to do that? I know that seems like an unnecessary question, but we are talking about needing a lot of bodies.

If you want the border "secured" this is the scenario to look at, not throwing billions at the "job creator class" for walls and electronics that will not do anything other than tell the Border Patrol how many dozens of people got in last night.

Steve
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So start jailing and major fines for people who give them jobs without checking their status?

Disrupt the "job creator class"? ((shock)) {{{horror}}} there have been a few cases of "enforcement theater", recently at some 7/11 stores and, a dozen years ago, a few meat packing plants, but nothing consistent. A candidate for POTUS several years ago called for legal immigrant workers to be issued ID cards with a national database to verify them. Of course, his proposal called for the verification process to be outsourced to the credit card companies so they could make a profit off it. See how far that proposal got?

Steve
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...and of course, as anyone who actually knows illegals knows, the best way to fix the border is

1) make employers responsible for certifying legality and provide legals (citizens and green card holders) with very difficult to forge Real Identification, good for voting, healthcare, ....and

2) actually act like a friend to the nations south of the border. 1st step in that direction would be to stop messing with NAFTA, followed quickly by ending the war on drugs and ending the power of the narcotics dealers by undercutting their prices and assisting addicts.


Naaah. Too much $$$ to be made by exploiting illegals, winning elections on fear, and building private prisons.


david fb
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notehound,

There appears to be missing information on this graphic. It does not show the one million immigrants that went to Germany in 2015. Numbers for other countries like France, Italy and Spain also look odd.

Here are statistics for EU countries for 2015.

jaagu
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Interesting graphic/map. I noticed that there was one slow moving line LEAVING the USA. Tried to follow it and it seems to land on Luxembourg.

JLC

====================================

Those are the shady US bankers and hedge fund crooks hiding themselves and their money in Luxembourg.

jaagu :-]
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https://tradingeconomics.com/mexico/gdp

Mexican economy slowing.

Mexican unemployment at 3.5 percent.

Mexico posts trade surplus.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

GDP slows to 1.50 percent

Population growth slows to 1.24 percent

Population structure

0-14 years: 26.93%
15-24 years: 17.54%
25-54 years: 40.81%
55-64 years: 7.64%
65 years and over: 7.09% (2017 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

The population structure indicates that that will be fewer and fewer excess people in Mexico available to move to the U.S.

While we may see a bump for the next few years, as Mexico seems to be entering a recession, this is likely to be temporary.

Currently there are only two places that have the demographics to support net immigration for the mext 20 years: India and most of sub-Saharan Africa.

Temporarily, because of the wars in northern Africa, there are surplus emigrants available. However, demographics says this is a shallow lake to draw from.

A wall is probablys required, ‘cause once we get ‘em here we don’t want ‘em going home.

Cheers
Qazulight
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The main problem we have here in the USA is that we have little to no control over our southern border.

I don't know if that is the main problem. The large majority of illegal immigrants arrive at legal checkpoints and then overstay their visas.


OK, I can live with that.

The crime cartels in Mexico are destroying the country. Tourism is going down and our cleaning lady lost an innocent family member to a wild shot during a shootout between cartels a few years ago. There are lots of innocent victims.
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So how many people would it take to man the wall 24/7?

For gender equality they should woman the wall!


For economy they should automate surveillance of the wall.
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For economy they should automate surveillance of the wall.

And have a decent number of strike teams ready to go in and apprehend - because surveillance without response is not security.
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So start jailing and major fines for people who give them jobs without checking their status?

How's about we reintroduce the Bracero Program?

The Bracero Program (from the Spanish term bracero, meaning "manual laborer" or "one who works using his arms") was a series of laws and diplomatic agreements, initiated on August 4, 1942, when the United States signed the Mexican Farm Labor Agreement with Mexico.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program
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...and of course, as anyone who actually knows illegals knows, the best way to fix the border is

1) make employers responsible for certifying legality and provide legals (citizens and green card holders) with very difficult to forge Real Identification, ...


When running my store I had to jump through those federal hoops when hiring the wives of GIs who'd brought Korean wives back with them. It was a pain in the ass.

I think reintroducing the Bracero Program would solve a large part of the problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program
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The crime cartels in Mexico are destroying the country. Tourism is going down and our cleaning lady lost an innocent family member to a wild shot during a shootout between cartels a few years ago.

Sounds like Detroit. All too often the local news will be showing a residential neighborhood of well kept brick houses with immaculate yards, because a child was cut down there by a stray bullet while playing in her own front yard. In sketchier neighborhood, people sleep on the floor so the stray bullets that come through the walls might miss them.

Police: Sleeping boy, 8, dies after being hit by bullet that pierced wall of Detroit home

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/30/police-sleeping-boy-8-d...

Detroit boy, 7, wounded by gunfire as he does homework

Detroit Police spokesman Adam Madera said the boy was in his room in a house in the 15000 block of Evanston around 11 p.m. when the bullet came through the wall from outside.


https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2015...

Fiat Chrysler announced the transfer of heavy duty Ram truck production from a Mexican plant to Warren, a suburb of Detroit, a few days ago. The Mexican plant is in Saltillo, which is in the state of Coahuila.

An article on the 10 highest crime areas of Mexico says of Coahuila: "Violence and criminal activity, including homicide, armed robbery, carjacking, kidnapping, extortion, and sexual assault, pose significant and continuing security concerns, particularly along the highways between Piedras Negras and Nuevo Laredo."

https://www.celebstoner.com/news/drug-news/2014/10/18/where-...

Ford recently announced that the Fusion sedan will shortly end production in their Hermosillo plant. Some articles mention there is nothing planned to replace it at Hermosillo, which is in Sonora. Sonora is not on that article's 10 worst list, but it isn't particularly safe either. Among the safer areas of Mexico listed is Puebla, site of VW, Audi and several other factories.

Steve
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The Bracero Program (from the Spanish term bracero, meaning "manual laborer" or "one who works using his arms") was a series of laws and diplomatic agreements, initiated on August 4, 1942,

Because the US was in a huge war and drafting able bodied men as fast as they could be trained and equipped, the extra labor was desperately needed. The US was not only arming and fueling England, we were feeding it, as well as 6 million of our own in uniform.

Listening to certain pols and media blowhards now, the agenda is not guest workers or braceros, it's keeping foreigners out, period. A return to the immigration policies of the late 1920s.

Steve
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Listening to certain pols and media blowhards now, the agenda is not guest workers or braceros, it's keeping foreigners out, period. A return to the immigration policies of the late 1920s.

At least 80% of what I hear that is anti-immigrant-in-general is uttered by people who use it to demonize people who are anti-illegal-immigrant but mostly pro-legalimmigrant.

Probably another 15% is from people who want to see US immigration law go unenforced, but in arguing for that position say things that they don't realize are belittling to immigrants.
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