No. of Recommendations: 3
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_EXCHANGE_PE...

Setting up a state-based exchange would be irresponsible, Corbett said, as he faulted federal authorities for what he called inadequate answers to his questions about cost and other issues.

"Health care reform is too important to be achieved through haphazard planning," Corbett said. "Pennsylvania taxpayers and businesses deserve more. They deserve informed decision making and a strong plan that responsibly uses taxpayer dollars."
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LMAO

For years state pols have been paid off by health insurance companies to allow the health insurance companies to maintain their monopolies. Right wing think tanks, conservative politicians and academics have long asked for insurance exchanges. It is after all a free market application.

Now a completely dishonest rightie plays total politics to deny his state's residents access to the best pricing and Dope1 cheers.

Tells us far more about Dope and his rightie heros than it does about healthcare exchanges. What it tells is they are pathetic.
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No. of Recommendations: 4
The Feds are the ones not furnishing the adequate information to the states.

This means that either the Feds are "paid off", or it means it's another case of yuppies not knowing what they are doing.

Either way....

When this is done, health care will cost more, and be of lesser quality.

Even for the yuppies eventually.

Obama 2012. yeah baby

JediG
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Imagine it, Jedi: The states actually want guidance from the feds to set up these federally mandated and (effectively) federally controlled exchanges. But Obama was ready with the requirements and won't extend the due date.

Who woulda thunk it? Another poorly planned and poorly executed piece of this law that nobody read. liberals DESERVE every last thing they've got coming to them in this law.

I'm hoping the IRS classifies gloves as a medical device (they're on the dual-use list and are eligible to be covered by the tax). That would hit every lib's every tummy tuck, skinned knee and boob job.
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Again, these are yuppies who have no record of accomplishment.

They really can't do this.

Or run a Taco Bell for a day.

It's showing now.

Somewhere out there is an assistant manager at McDonald's, working on staffing and ordering for his restaurant.

That guy is more competent than Obama, Obama's yuppy brigages, and the yuppy losers here on PA.

JediG
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the feds are pushing a 'pig in a poke' plan with no details.

The states are saying 'no thanks'....


The job of setting up the web site required by the feds is astounding..it typically takes 2-3 years to implement, and the feds demand it in less than a year, fully functional...and fully compliant to rules that don't exist yet, and likely will be changing every two months from now till Jan 2014.

You'd have to be an idiot to try and design massive computerized systems to specs that don't exist .......


and where you'll be 'penalized' bazillions of dollars for non-compliance in the event you don't get there in time.


plus, who knows how much the states will be 'gored' with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of extra expenses, hidden somewhere in the fine print, or the print yet to appear!....... and how many thousand new employees they'd have to hire...to be 'ready' for it to work. WHole departments just to answer the phone questions.....hundreds to respond to emails.


Maybe they should have all read all the details before they actually 'passed it'. huh?



t.
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Somewhere out there is an assistant manager at McDonald's, working on staffing and ordering for his restaurant.

That guy is more competent than Obama, Obama's yuppy brigages, and the yuppy losers here on PA.


Same thing for Wal-Mart's floor managers. Those folks are empowered to look at shopping trends and choose merchandise that's moving more. PA libs don't understand that kind of micro decision making either. That same Wal-Mart floor guy (just a couple of levels up from floor associate) has the ability to access data from their nationwide supply chain and redirect resources if he/she needs to.

Every time I read a PA left wing post on Wal Mart I LOL. Most of their employees are far more savvy about supply chains, operations and technology that the vaunted MBA Idiot Brigade here.
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No. of Recommendations: 30
"The states actually want guidance from the feds to set up these federally mandated and (effectively) federally controlled exchanges. But Obama was ready with the requirements and won't extend the due date."


Please, no one here really believes that a single one of these GOP governors is just waiting for more guidance. This is about politics, pure and simple. There was no way that any of them hadn't made up their minds the second the law was enacted.

As for the exchanges, doesn't matter one bit who runs it. If the states want to give up their control to the federal government, then so be it.
Makes no difference at all to the law. The danger is if these exchanges work, then those states and the GOP look like idiots as they try to scramble back in.

Guess it's just like the economy these days...the GOP is left rooting for the worst to keep from becoming irrelevant.
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Guess it's just like the economy these days...the GOP is left rooting for the worst to keep from becoming irrelevant.

The GOP DID single-handedly destroy the economy and leave Barack Obama no choice but to suck at his job, so yeah, you're right.
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One more state paves the way for single payer. Hooray!
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One more state paves the way for single payer. Hooray!

...and more shadow private markets with up-front pricing and no government involvement. Obama through his ineptitude may have done us all a favor after all.
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heh heh

If you buy into the exchanges, you also have to 'expand' your state Medicare eligibility.


That means, more giant computer systems....and

WHile Obama 'PICKS UP' the cost for the first 3 years of the Medicaid expansion (if he can afford it).......and then 90% for the next 3 years -meaning the states will have to pony up maybe 20-25 million more a year.......

and then? Maybe HALF of it....for 10 million people or more in some states!!!!!!

and the feds will shift more and more to Medicaid from ObamaKare....

The feds only pay half the Medicaid costs now!..


No responsible governor is going to sign up for a program that is guaranteed to require 50% tax hikes in six years!......... most can't afford the welfare weenies they got, no less create tens of millions more of them.

It's a shell game to get the states to pay for massive amounts of 'free' healthcare for the weenies and queenies. From money they don'[t have, and can't borrow by the trillions like Obama can...until he, too, bankrupts the country.


YOu did read the 2000 pages of the bill, right?

IT's a simple concept. Saddle the states with unaffordable Medicaid costs as part of the 'exchange' deal.



t.
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"One more state paves the way for single payer. Hooray! "


More likely, one more state paves the way to the end of ObamaKare.


It's already being challenged in fed court on several other issues, among them 'tax fairness'.


t.
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richieds: Please, no one here really believes that a single one of these GOP governors is just waiting for more guidance. This is about politics, pure and simple. There was no way that any of them hadn't made up their minds the second the law was enacted.

As for the exchanges, doesn't matter one bit who runs it. If the states want to give up their control to the federal government, then so be it.
Makes no difference at all to the law. The danger is if these exchanges work, then those states and the GOP look like idiots as they try to scramble back in.

Guess it's just like the economy these days...the GOP is left rooting for the worst to keep from becoming irrelevant.


It's going to be fairly simple for the federal government to set up the exchanges. They already have a framework with the federal workforce. I think the hard part will be getting people to sign up. Many of the low income or poverty people may not have any idea when or how to sign up, nor have access to reliable computer service. Will they sign people up at health clinics? I thought more health clinics were part of the ACA, but I haven't heard much about that.
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It's going to be fairly simple for the federal government to set up the exchanges. They already have a framework with the federal workforce. I think the hard part will be getting people to sign up. Many of the low income or poverty people may not have any idea when or how to sign up, nor have access to reliable computer service. Will they sign people up at health clinics? I thought more health clinics were part of the ACA, but I haven't heard much about that.

Given the Social Security field system already in place nationwide, it would be fairly easy to utilize those locations (expanded sites) to also handle healthcare applications and computers for the public to use. Secure telecom is already in place for most of them--and easily expanded. IRS offices could also be used (or expanded). Plus, the govt already has a Medicare web site, so it would not be hard to add a Healthcare.gov website and just go from there. Guess what? www.Healthcare.gov already exists--guess what for? LOL !! Obama may be a step (or three) ahead of those who choose to not create their own exchanges.....
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"As for the exchanges, doesn't matter one bit who runs it. If the states want to give up their control to the federal government, then so be it.
Makes no difference at all to the law. The danger is if these exchanges work, then those states and the GOP look like idiots as they try to scramble back in."

Or, the federal exchanges work so well in red states that it takes a minimum of persuasion to convince the blue states to agree on a uniform national exchange.

Et voila. The next step to single payer.
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Who woulda thunk it? Another poorly planned and poorly executed piece of this law that nobody read. liberals DESERVE every last thing they've got coming to them in this law.
_______________________________

Sure everyone will suffer, then we can come out here to PA and listen to the MSM tell us the truth

the healthcare bill has severe problems terrible legislation was passed. Why have the Republicans not fixed it ? Where are the Republican cures. They had lots of ideas before it was passed, but now that America has moved forward where are there ideas to make medicine work

then you can turn on Fox News or some other group of liars, and see these old men with no ideas saying how this used to be imperfect but oh so much better before a group of morons screwed everything up

then the MSM and of course clown car here, can claim how cold Republublicans are not caring about the poor and elderly who will get hit worst, and how bereft of ideas they are.

in other words, Democrats will drop everything on Republicans, while doing nothing but saying hey we want things better we told you to make things better and you didn't do it, you Republicans are bad people

WOnder how much pain it is going to take for the folks backing these idiots to wake up
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Maybe they should have all read all the details before they actually 'passed it'. huh?


__________________________

Well it is the law now, and what are republicans doing. Sure they had all these ideas on making things better before this was passed. But where are they now? Why aren't the Republicans offering solutions instead of pointing out problems?

Why didn't Republicans fix it before it was passed.

Why aren't Republican Governors at the state level passing legislation to fix the problems that might exist

Why aren't Republicans fixing everything. We as Dems did our part we passed something, and everyone know something had to be done. You want something that works -- then make it work.

It has got to be nice being a Democrat. this type of gibberish is going to be getting tens of thousands of recs here over the next 2-3 years
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One more state paves the way for single payer. Hooray!

______________

Do you think Single Payer can pass the Congress in the near future? Think about it, ClintonKare cost Bill control of the Congress in a GOP landslide...ObamaKare did the same for Obama in the House. Passing or even attempting to pass a major health care overhaul has been terrible for elected Democrats. Why would they go out on a limb again? Members of Congress care more about their re-election than the people. I bet there are several Democrats who would have switched their ObamaKare vote if it meant keeping their seat.

Also it took a straight party line vote in the Senate with a 60-40 advantage to get ObamaKare through. Single Payer was shot down, so why would you think they could get 60 votes this time?

Let's not debate is it's a good idea, because that's a circular argument and neither of us are changing our minds. My question is why do you think it would pass the Congress? (And clearly not passing this Congress)
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Do you think Single Payer can pass the Congress in the near future?
____________________________

Absolutely.

You think getting what we have now in place when the folks putting it there knew it was the dumbest most ill thought out and failure spiked bunch of garbage imaginable was not a plan to have to replace it ?

Look, the Republicans who want to go back to the old flawed system, they can't even fix the system we have in place now.

The Republicans did not help when we put this in place. The Republicans said it would fail, and look it did -- but did they fix it?

Look, only Democrats can fix health care and we say single payer is the path

Yes the above is utter garbage, but it sells, it just elected Obama in as near an exact scenario as I can imagine.

Oh yeah, right now human waste sandwiches are very popular and the Dems are dealing.
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lowstudent:"the healthcare bill has severe problems terrible legislation was passed. Why have the Republicans not fixed it ? Where are the Republican cures. They had lots of ideas before it was passed, but now that America has moved forward where are there ideas to make medicine work"

The repubs didn't pass it because they didn't get to read it. SImple.

Neither did the dems, but they passed it anyway.

IT's garbage.


Why should the repubs fix the dem mess? That's like having 300 dems crap in your bathroom then expecting you to fix it.



t.
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Why should the repubs fix the dem mess? That's like having 300 dems crap in your bathroom then expecting you to fix it.

_______________

Because the mess needs fixing.

If you bring your car to auto mechanic for an oil change and get it back needing a new transmission because of poor work, would you let him fix it or go to a better mechanic? Why do you think the person that caused the problem is able to fix it?
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Hey Richeids..

The righties won't give up. Their hatred is impervious to reason.
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If you bring your car to auto mechanic for an oil change and get it back needing a new transmission because of poor work, would you let him fix it or go to a better mechanic? Why do you think the person that caused the problem is able to fix it?
____________________________________-

Of course the problem with your analogy is that in the scenario you outline

The mechanic totally screwed up replacing an axle, so you brought it back to him -- he then sent it out to get it done right at a discount to what you paid him, and it came back OK

So... when you wanted your engine rebuilt you bring the car back to an incompetent mechanic who this time wants to do it himself

You are worse off then when you started because the competent person bailed out the incompetent boobs
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The mechanic totally screwed up replacing an axle, so you brought it back to him -- he then sent it out to get it done right at a discount to what you paid him, and it came back OK

_________

Why assume the mechanic sent it out to be fixed instead of attempting to fix it himself?
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Why assume the mechanic sent it out to be fixed instead of attempting to fix it himself?
__________________________

Because the analogy as represented in the politics represented had Republicans fixing ObamaCare and though the fix made it better it would later fail -- then the Dems would get credit though they outsourced their failure to the Republicans to fix, then get a chance to break it on a far more extensive plane
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...and more shadow private markets with up-front pricing and no government involvement.

Right. Because there are no shadow private markets NOW.

I really don't have a problem with the idea of such off-the-books providers that provide specialized services with the connections and financial means to access them. You're not going to make these go away, so we're better off just making sure that no American citizen suffers for lack of access to the most basic of services.


Obama through his ineptitude may have done us all a favor after all.

The ACA is lacking in many ways, but it seems to have cured Tea Party governors of their fear of socialized medicine. Now, they're opting-in on letting the feds have their way with the state exchanges - and thereby greasing the skids towards the inevitable availability of AT LEAST a national public option for health insurance.

You're right that Obama did us a favor with the ACA. But not without the help of a lot of Republicans (especially those shortsighted Republican Governors). The Democrats in congress were kind of involved in getting it passed as well. This wasn't a one-man show and I think it's unfair to give Obama all the credit.
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Do you think Single Payer can pass the Congress in the near future?

Doesn't have to. That will come later. For the time being, the states that are letting the feds set up their exchanges just volunteered to be guinea pigs for a nationalized system.

Though Vermont and (I think) Montana are looking at single payer as well.

This situation could cascade very quickly into a situation where is simply makes more economic sense to, rather than have the feds manage numerous state exchanges, to simply make the whole system national. Combined with certain concessions including allowing private insurers to sell insurance across state lines, it could release a new and vibrant market where private insurers are tripping over themselves for the chance to compete with a "public option". This would, of course, totally destroy the status-quo in the private health insurance market. But who would say that's a bad thing?
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The Feds are the ones not furnishing the adequate information to the states.

This means that either the Feds are "paid off", or it means it's another case of yuppies not knowing what they are doing.

Either way....

When this is done, health care will cost more, and be of lesser quality.


Heh. I gave your post a rec for the amusement value. Every single Republican politician who has ever discussed health care reform has said there needs to be more competition in the insurance market and ideally insurance needs to be purchasable across state lines. Mitt Romney, John McCain, Sarah Palin, Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, all of them have made statements to that effect.

The way to do this, of course, is to set up a system where in additional to the regular insurance market you have a marketplace of easily comparable plans and prices. Make shopping for insurance more like shopping for airline tickets, in other words. Two states have already done this. One is Massachusetts. Its exchange was set up by then Gov. Mitt Romney. He explained he did this because he likes to be able to fire his insurance company (I happen to agree with him on this point). The other was in ultra-conservative Utah. Utahns believe strongly in unleashing the power of the free market and felt this was the best way to do it. This system, of course, is called an insurance exchange.

So, now all the states can get an exchange paid for in part by the Federal government and the states can even form regional exchanges if they want, so you can buy insurance across state lines. Major conservative victory, right? The Republicans are getting exactly what they said they wanted. Break out the champagne!

Wrong. All Republicans have now done a complete 180. Insurance exchanges are no longer an important free market tool. Exchanges are now the work of the devil which will destroy health care! Increasing competition won't drive down prices, increasing competition drives them up! Stop the madness!

A lot of people thought Mitt Romney was a poor choice for the Republican nomination. I disagree, I think he was an excellent choice. The modern Republican party defines itself by what it is against. Therefore being a Republican requires discarding any of your previous positions at anytime so you can be against whatever your opponent is for. Mitt Romney had the ability to do that like no other candidate I've ever seen. Really, the perfect modern Republican candidate. Unelectable, but perfect.
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Right. Because there are no shadow private markets NOW.

Not to the extent that their needs to be. Right now there is no effective price communication going on which is a massive distortion of pricing throughout the system. Once Obamacare finishes off the traditional model, there will be enough price signaling to create an effective secondary market.

<The ACA is lacking in many ways, but it seems to have cured Tea Party governors of their fear of socialized medicine. Now, they're opting-in on letting the feds have their way with the state exchanges - and thereby greasing the skids towards the inevitable availability of AT LEAST a national public option for health insurance.

That's not the reason. The reason they're doing it so that don't have to pay for it.

You're right that Obama did us a favor with the ACA. But not without the help of a lot of Republicans (especially those shortsighted Republican Governors). The Democrats in congress were kind of involved in getting it passed as well. This wasn't a one-man show and I think it's unfair to give Obama all the credit.

"Shortsighted Republican Governors", LOL. You mean to say, "GOP Governors who don't want their states stuck with hundreds of millions of dollars in future budget gaps". That's not short-sighted. It's called common sense.
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"Shortsighted Republican Governors", LOL. You mean to say, "GOP Governors who don't want their states stuck with hundreds of millions of dollars in future budget gaps". That's not short-sighted. It's called common sense.

If you are suggesting that they are incapable of properly managing a state exchange, I can't argue otherwise. If you are suggesting that these exchanges are inherent money pits, then time will tell as we see how the feds do with it.
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I think you need to familiarize yourself with the law.
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