No. of Recommendations: 5
Ability to see all of the posts from a thread on one page
Spell-checker for posts
Raise the number of recs each day WAY up
Real-time chat
Private club-style boards

Click here to see results so far.

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No. of Recommendations: 1
Bogus poll.

One is free, and would take appx 30 seconds to implement...

Why should that "displace" any of the other changes??
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Hypothetically, if I told you that we could only make 1 change to the boards in the next 3 to 6 months, which of the following would you choose? Please be careful how you vote.

If I were a cynical man, I might view this as an attempt to pacify members without spending any money (and to save the money that might go into implementing the other options.) After all, just how much would it cost to abandon rec limits?

Of course, as everyone knows, I am not a cynical man.

--zoui
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Bogey:

This poll is a cheap-@ss way for TMF to try to claim that this rec issue isn't important to people.

You (collectively) could change the rec limit in 30 seconds if you so desired, so it's not fair to hold other "upgrades" hostage just to get your way....

Speaking of "your way", why is "your way" so much more important to you than the obvious wishes of your customers?


Mort.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Bogus poll.

One is free, and would take appx 30 seconds to implement...

Why should that "displace" any of the other changes??


I concur!

Agent
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Bogus poll.

One is free, and would take appx 30 seconds to implement...

Why should that "displace" any of the other changes??


I agree that the poll was bogus. The Wise people who run the Motley fool (purposely small "f") are making my decision not to pony up the dough seem more and more intelligent.

But this poll is really cool. If enough people vote that changing things back they way they were is an important "Imporovement" then they can periodically take away functionality and reintroduce a few days later and then say how many "improvements" they have made.

Bogey, this place is getting bogus.

ANiceChap
2 days to live and leaving looks to "improve" my life
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I concur completely
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No. of Recommendations: 0
TMFBogey,
Prior to voting, I would ask:

What is the purpose of setting any limit on recs?

thx,
tuni
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No. of Recommendations: 22
Please be careful how you vote.

Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Please be careful how you vote.

Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?


I concur enough to actually use my second to last rec

Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.
You will be able to recommend one more post today. (explain this)


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No. of Recommendations: 2
Hi Bogey,

If this had been put up as a poll yesterday, the middle choice on recs would not have been there. Instead, I think that there would have been a 'restore the full search function' option. I suspect that, yesterday, the search option would have won the poll quite easily.

Just wondering why a spell checker (which can be, and often is, replaced by a word processing program) should take priority over the search function (for which I cannot find a viable alternative)?

Lost
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No. of Recommendations: 10
>>Please be careful how you vote.

Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?


I f'ing concur!

Just when you thought an organization had touched the bottom.... they start digging.

Alessandro
puking at this point.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Just when you thought an organization had touched the bottom.... they start digging.

Alessandro


That is a good one. Can I borrow that sometime?

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 0
what's real time chat?
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Just when you thought an organization had touched the bottom.... they start digging.

Alessandro


That is a good one. Can I borrow that sometime?

Telly


Yeah, sure... why not.

...but I still think you're either David or Tom's doppel :-)

...if I see it show up in a Fool article I'll know for sure

Alessandro
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No. of Recommendations: 0
There are still those of us who do like Jell-O.

gm
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?
===*===

You must be...oh, I see you ARE relatively new to Fooldom.

Da Mopp
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Yeah, sure... why not.

...but I still think you're either David or Tom's doppel :-)

...if I see it show up in a Fool article I'll know for sure


Thanks.

No.

Trust me. They won't be putting any of my posts in a Fool article. Although, I did have a few good posts that were yanked.

Telly

whitemiata added to your Favorite Fool's list
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Bogey, this is the no-brainer of the year. I couldn't care less if you do any of the other choices in your poll. But the rec limit is absurdly low. It must be raised to a minimum of 30, and preferably far higher.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
<<It's clear to us that a group of people are upset about this, and we're willing to work to make it better for everyone.>>

So patronizing.

Grab a clue. It doesn't need "working" on. Simply abandon this new rec policy.

As for the poll, it is merely a diversion. I didn't bother.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Some poll that is. (1) Take something away. (2) Include restoring it as one of the alternative "improvements."
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Spell-checker for posts is an unimaginative choice for lazy posters. Just copy your message into your word processing software and check it there.
Obviousman
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"Just when you thought an organization had touched the bottom.... they start digging."

LOL
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No. of Recommendations: 1
You have no recommendations left for today. (explain this)


c

non identical post 984
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No. of Recommendations: 1
You have no recommendations left for today. (explain this)

c

non identical post 1002
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No. of Recommendations: 4
I like that the only feature that would REALLY make a difference to me, being able to apply 'Ignored Fool Yap' to a thread, which from my previous post on this subject seems to be something quite a few people want, isn't even on the poll. If only this was a feature that already existed so they could reintroduce it...

I WAS thinking about paying to end up with three years for the price of one. Somehow I got the one free year. Now I'm starting to waver a bit. I mean, how hard do you have to work to annoy the people you've given something free to? A lot of people with the freebie year seem to be upset about one thing or another. I find this amazing.

I don't get the rec thing. As a whole bunch of people already asked, why limit it? It used to be unlimited. If it was unlimited, switching it back can't take a rocket scientist. I'm guessing with the frequent maintenance needs of this web site, rocket scientists don't maintain it, though. Do the words "bait and switch" mean anything to anybody?

As for the post and the poll itself, for one thing, this isn't a presidential election and we're not in Southern Florida (well, most of us aren't). I don't think we need to be THAT careful about how we vote. From this poll I think the Fool staff needs to be more careful about how they treat their members and the 'features' they choose to maybe, possibly, introduce if they can get around to it and it won't take more than about 12 minutes worth of work and a peanut butter sandwich.

As for the poll options...

1. I don't WANT to see all the posts of a thread on one page. Hell, some threads have enough posts that I would be scrolling to China to get all the way to the bottom of the damn page.

2. As several have mentioned, if you're concerned about spelling, copy to a word processor, spell check, copy back updated text. You can do it.

3. Uh, take something away, then offer it back. This is like being sent to your room without dinner, then Mom comes up and says "If you say your sorry to your brother, you can come down and have dinner." I would say the majority of people on these boards have progressed past age 9. Perhaps they are even grown ups with jobs and houses and lives and just don't want to be treated like they are 9 anymore. Well, some people might like a good spanking now and then, but I don't think it's in the same context as when they were nine.

4. Real-time chat. I'm sure anybody that would use this has their buddies on a list on AOL or Yahoo! or some other chat venu somewhere. It would be nice, but I don't think anybody thinks of the Fool as their one-stop Internet yak shop.

5. Private club-style boards. Hmmm. We have to pay to use the boards. Now people can arbitrarily limit viewership further. I'm guessing with this one we might at some point see "added feature, additional charge"! This is an interesting way to build a 'community'. Create a bunch of high school type cliques. Or by club-style do you mean that you wield your power over the boards with club-like precision, knocking aside large groups of people you don't want around? Ooga Booga, glug yug, kinck knack paddywhack give TMFBogey a bone.


I only wish this post was available before the latest contest deadline. I have a new most meaningful post. I could have had a much better entry if I had this post to work with. Needless to say, to make a long post longer, all of the options, to me, seem pretty crappy. I'm exercising my right to vote by write-in.

APPLY IGNORED FOOL YAP TO A THREAD SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ MEANINGLESS DIATRIBE ABOUT THE COLOR OF MONKEY KNUCKLE HAIR!!

Further updates I think are worth considering given the choices currently available on this poll.

More pop-ups!!

All links automatically 'Open in new window'

Take away the main menu bar so only people that REALLY know the site can navigate through it by typing the necessary URLs. Have customers pay for a subscription for the menu bar. Call it the Fool Url Cruising Kit You Oughtta Use!

Make all the text on all the pages white.

When you login to the fool, "It's a small world" plays. Forever. And it takes over your sound card so it's the ONLY thing you hear.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Do the words "bait and switch" mean anything to anybody?

I concur!
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No. of Recommendations: 0
If this had been put up as a poll yesterday, the middle choice on recs would not have been there. Instead, I think that there would have been a 'restore the full search function' option. I suspect that, yesterday, the search option would have won the poll quite easily.


Like Angus said.

-Neglectarino
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Take away the main menu bar so only people that REALLY know the site can navigate through it by typing the necessary URLs. Have customers pay for a subscription for the menu bar. Call it the Fool Url Cruising Kit You Oughtta Use!

LOL!

Amphian
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?
===*===

You must be...oh, I see you ARE relatively new to Fooldom.

Da Mopp


I'm pushing that d@mn Rec button but of course, my pockets are to let.

So sorry.

-Neglectarino
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Further updates I think are worth considering given the choices currently available on this poll.

More pop-ups!!

All links automatically 'Open in new window'

Take away the main menu bar so only people that REALLY know the site can navigate through it by typing the necessary URLs. Have customers pay for a subscription for the menu bar. Call it the Fool Url Cruising Kit You Oughtta Use!

Make all the text on all the pages white.

When you login to the fool, "It's a small world" plays. Forever. And it takes over your sound card so it's the ONLY thing you hear.



Oh, Mike! Where have you been all my life?!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

-Neglectarino
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I did'nt know there was a limit on recs. Personally, I don't make that many recs, but on some days I find more to recommend. I fail to see a good reason for limiting the number of recs, since the $30 fee should go a long way toward reducing "doppels."

EJWaits
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No. of Recommendations: 0
You left out the option for "I decline to participate in a Bogus poll."
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No. of Recommendations: 0
So do these results get you off the hook for the more expensive stuff by letting you bow to the will of the community?


15% (26 Votes)
Ability to see all of the posts from a thread on one page

14% (24 Votes)
Spell-checker for posts

54% (93 Votes)
Raise the number of recs each day WAY up

10% (18 Votes)
Real-time chat

7% (12 Votes)
Private club-style boards

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No. of Recommendations: 0
Thanks for the poll TMFBogey.

I would have rec'ed it, but ran out some 30 recs ago. :o)

Chin
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No. of Recommendations: 2
What? Are you nuts? What kind of poll is that? The #1 request has been and has always been and seemingly will always be an "ignore thread" (or conversely, a "watched thread" )option. Volume is an issue. Limited time to read the boards is an issue. Readers do need help in navigating the large volume of daily posts efficiently but not by artificially discouraging posts in the first place. I would have gladly paid just for those features. Free membership == no advanced navigation aids. Fee membership == "ignore thread" and other advanced navigation aids. All right! Where do I sign up! Alternatively, TMF could have asked for donations from those customers/fans who wanted such features. I would have gladly sent in $5, $10, $20 to help out. Moot point now since I've already cancelled my charter membership due to this debacle.

MikE
Ex-charter member
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No. of Recommendations: 0
This was easy. I already know how to spell. If I'm obsessed about it, I can use a spell checker in another program and import the text to the message board. Not that I would. I don't really understand the thread option -- I customize my page to show as many posts as possible and can choose to look at who has replied to a thread. It would be interesting to see the first few lines of a reply, but overall I'm happy with the interface. You gain one thing, you lose another. I forget what the other choices are, but I agree with the poster who said the poll was bogus, though I don't want to waste a recc agreeing with him. Alas.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
And real time chat -- gimme a break. Just give people signatures on their posts. They can list their IM or ICQ numbers and chat if they want to do that, not that I've ever had a real time chat that wasn't inane.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Oh that's a way to encourage newbies to sign up. I've been here since 1997 and I think it was an annoying comment, too.


Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?
===*===

You must be...oh, I see you ARE relatively new to Fooldom.

Da Mopp
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Bogey????

Is 30 RECS your idea of WAY UP????????????????????????



Gunsroland (still amazed since 1902)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Original Message

Subject: Poll: Relativity
Author: TMFBogey Date: 2/12/02 11:10 AM Number: 25651
Fools,

I realize this is imperfect, but I'd like to take a small poll to gauge the relative sentiment on this board, which is serving as a lightning rod for the rec discussion. It's clear to us that a group of people are upset about this, and we're willing to work to make it better for everyone. That said, sometimes juxtaposing one thing against another to assign priority helps get to a relative feel for things.

Hypothetically, if I told you that we could only make 1 change to the boards in the next 3 to 6 months, which of the following would you choose? Please be careful how you vote.
16% (34 Votes)
Ability to see all of the posts from a thread on one page

13% (28 Votes)
Spell-checker for posts

56% (123 Votes)
Raise the number of recs each day WAY up

10% (21 Votes)
Real-time chat

6% (12 Votes)
Private club-style boards

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No. of Recommendations: 132
Gunsroland,

If you are truly this dissatisfied with our service or if you truly distrust us that much, why bother? I encourage you to walk. By canceling today, you can still save your entire $30. And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

So thanks for caring, but if you truly don't, please help the rest of us who do and post your point and leave it there. And if you find the service distasteful, we're the first to tell you your dollar a month might be put to more satisfying use to you, elsewhere.

David G.



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No. of Recommendations: 27
Sounds like i hit a nerve here.

oh well...my hat is coming off today.

I cannot believe that a representative of this company would actually put something like "we dont need your business" IN WRITING!@!!!!


......................

Original Message

Subject: Re: Poll: Relativity
Author: TMFDavidG Date: 2/13/02 10:05 AM Number: 26644
Gunsroland,

If you are truly this dissatisfied with our service or if you truly distrust us that much, why bother? I encourage you to walk. By canceling today, you can still save your entire $30. And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

So thanks for caring, but if you truly don't, please help the rest of us who do and post your point and leave it there. And if you find the service distasteful, we're the first to tell you your dollar a month might be put to more satisfying use to you, elsewhere.

David G.
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No. of Recommendations: 9
And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business...

Righty-o, David. If that's the way you really feel...

Striking ItF from his favorites and ambling off to spend his comp'ed year elsewhere on the site (and extremely glad he didn't pay up),
zoui
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No. of Recommendations: 15
well here is my email to TMF to cancel...just thought you would want a copy for your file david.........

...................................................
cancel my membership
according to TMFDavidG you guys do not need my business. All I did was try to express my opinion on the discussion boards...and here was his response:

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=16707361

if these are the kind of people you employ and encourage, then my money is better spent elsewhere.
.................................
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Oh that's a way to encourage newbies to sign up. I've been here since 1997 and I think it was an annoying comment, too.


Oh, puhlease. How many times in a week can you insult the intellegence of your customers?
===*===

You must be...oh, I see you ARE relatively new to Fooldom.

Da Mopp


Papilio,
I think Da Mopp was being sarcastic. If I'm reading the response correctly, the jab is aimed at the Fool.

O of M
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Gunsroland,

If you are truly this dissatisfied with our service or if you truly distrust us that much, why bother? I encourage you to walk. By canceling today, you can still save your entire $30. And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

So thanks for caring, but if you truly don't, please help the rest of us who do and post your point and leave it there. And if you find the service distasteful, we're the first to tell you your dollar a month might be put to more satisfying use to you, elsewhere.

David G.


AMEN!

Well said.

David G. has Brass ones.

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Just when you thought an organization had touched the bottom.... they start digging.

Alessandro
puking at this point


Well Alessandro, I had to burn a reck on this post of yours.. <g>

-Rob
reckless..
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No. of Recommendations: 8
I cannot believe that a representative of this company would actually put something like "we dont need your business" IN WRITING!@!!!!

Really? Well we haven't run things conventionally from the start, and probably won't right through the finish, some decades hence. This is The Motley Fool, m'man, not Money magazine.

You can't believe that a company representative would speak honestly? :)

Quite seriously, if we continue not to believe this as a society, we'll probably get more dishonesty from corporate managers (and Olympic judges -- sheeesh).

Again, we do want the business of as many people who care about making The Motley Fool a pre-eminent community that mutually educates, amuses, and enriches. And this has in the past 2 weeks been validated by many thousands, and it is to them that we now direct our focus on the discussion boards.

Fool on,

DG
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No. of Recommendations: 5
And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business...

Righty-o, David. If that's the way you really feel...


Zoui,

Please note that I said "need," not "want." You know what we do need? Constructive criticism and creative suggestions for how to improve your service. That's the purpose of this board, and I thank the several Fools who've contributed such in the past, and encourage you to do so in future.

Fool on,

David G.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I know you're not paying attention to *me*, but I'm wondering...

"Again, we do want the business of as many people who care about making The Motley Fool a pre-eminent community that mutually educates, amuses, and enriches. And this has in the past 2 weeks been validated by many thousands, and it is to them that we now direct our focus on the discussion boards."

Does 1 1/2 or 2 count as "many"?
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No. of Recommendations: 14
David,

I have been with the fool for over 2 years and became very active in it about 3 months ago. I joined several boards and had quite a sense of community. I even coughed up the fee to stay here because I felt that it was worth the investment.

I tried my best to keep my complaints about the rec policy on this board once I found out that this was the board where that kind of post belonged.

All I did was try to express my opinion. I replied to messages I felt deserved replies. If I had a new thought or idea, i posted it.

I planned to stay even right up to this morning with the 12 rec limit in place. But what really got me bad were your comments. I am still jsut absolutely amazed at your attitude toward a member who has already paid and is simply stating an opinion as others on the board are.

I work in customer service. If I ever took half the tone that you took with me today, I would be escorted fromt he building before lunch.

I am very deeply saddened.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
O of M

Wow, you are right. Back to sarcasm school for me.

By the way - I just got the "that was fast" message and couldn't post a reply to this. They didn't waste any time with the recc limits but some of the other enhancements are still on hold, I see.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Does 1 1/2 or 2 count as "many"?

How can you have 1 1/2 of a poster?

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Telly (aka Bogey's doppel):

"How can you have 1 1/2 of a poster?"

Reread my post. You'll figure it out.....


Mort. (sees that recs and stars *are* sometimes indicative of quality level!)
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No. of Recommendations: 4
I'm a quiet noncomplainer who has been observing the ire about the $30 for 2 years.

I didn't have an opinion but was ready to sign up until I read this comment from TMFDavid.

I don't want to join a club that doesn't value diverse opinions--whether that includes constructive, destructive, whiny, insightful, prudent, diplomatic, in-your-face, or just plain stupid ones.

See you at simpleliving.net

Mel
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No. of Recommendations: 4
I work in customer service

Then you know what it is like to hear the constant whinning by customers who are just plain nuisances.

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 9
Constructive criticism and creative suggestions for how to improve your service.

Okay. Constructive criticism: Limiting recs was a horrible idea and is a real pisser, to the point of seriously impacting my own enjoyment of this website.

How to improve: Ditch the rec limit. Do it right soon because I'm not too far from wanting my money back.

Did anyone even request that there be limits? I tried very hard to keep my mouth shut when I was enjoying a free service. As a paying customer I will demand that my opinions be acknowledged and even sought out before making a change like this.


6
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Mel,

The Motley Fool is not only based on diverse opinion, it is a living embodiment of it day in and day out. It goes right to our name, in fact. And if this board or so many others doesn't clearly exhibit diverse opinion, I don't know what does! :)

But part of what many people are paying for in a club is an experience that is pleasant, convenient, and worthwhile. Further, if you're familiar with how clubs work, they occasionally exclude members who are disruptive or undermining the enjoyment of many others. So does every business in America. Same thing with classrooms.

And The Motley Fool community is something of all of these.

Thanks for writing,

David
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No. of Recommendations: 5
I think you did hit a nerve. You have to remember that when people are backed into a corner they often get nasty, which that letter is. If you have noticed their correspondence and some of their message board responses have grown nastier in the days since their announcement. Maybe things are not going as well as they'd hoped, or going so well they've decided to throw customer service out the window. Their attitude was the final straw in my deciding to leave TMF. I am emailing this post to you as well. please repond if you like.
Take care,
Susanelizabeth28
Gunsroland Wrote:
Sounds like i hit a nerve here.

oh well...my hat is coming off today.

I cannot believe that a representative of this company would actually put something like "we dont need your business" IN WRITING!@!!!!


......................

Original Message

Subject: Re: Poll: Relativity
Author: TMFDavidG Date: 2/13/02 10:05 AM Number: 26644
Gunsroland,

If you are truly this dissatisfied with our service or if you truly distrust us that much, why bother? I encourage you to walk. By canceling today, you can still save your entire $30. And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

So thanks for caring, but if you truly don't, please help the rest of us who do and post your point and leave it there. And if you find the service distasteful, we're the first to tell you your dollar a month might be put to more satisfying use to you, elsewhere.

David G.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
The hole just keeps getting deeper David?

Is this to say that the Fool is going to expand its sensorship of posts which it does not agree with? What is off topic about discussing a policy change on this board, which is where these things are supposed to be discussed?

Am I the only one lost on this one???



......................


Mel,

The Motley Fool is not only based on diverse opinion, it is a living embodiment of it day in and day out. It goes right to our name, in fact. And if this board or so many others doesn't clearly exhibit diverse opinion, I don't know what does! :)

But part of what many people are paying for in a club is an experience that is pleasant, convenient, and worthwhile. Further, if you're familiar with how clubs work, they occasionally exclude members who are disruptive or undermining the enjoyment of many others. So does every business in America. Same thing with classrooms.

And The Motley Fool community is something of all of these.

Thanks for writing,

David
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Telly (aka Bogey's doppel):


That is a disgrace to insult TMFBogey by claimimg that I am his doppel. Shame on you.

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 5
DavidG:

"... We also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation."

Bullpucky.

You've already made a change (however halfhearted and begrudgingly) as a result of a floodgate of complaints. Do you expect people to believe that a few simple, polite, nice suggestions, followed by dropping the subject, would have changed anything?

You know better, and so do we.


Mort.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Well, if the Motley Fool does not need our business, one might ask why they are charging for the message boards.

Maybe they do not *need* the money, but just *want* it?

Sounds reasonable to me.
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No. of Recommendations: 6
I work in customer service. If I ever took half the tone that you took with me today, I would be escorted fromt he building before lunch.


... not if you were the boss you woulnd't.

Gunsroland, if you didn't know, I'm afraid this will upset you about 2 orders of magnitude more than you currently are.

TMFDavidG is nobody other than David Gardner ... one of the two proprietors of this place.

That has two implications:

1. We'll all be gone, and so will the site, before anyone escorts him out of the office.

2. Some would expect that he may exercise even more restraint than I'm sure he is.

To clarify... I'm in complete disagreement with TMF's new Rec policy, as well as the (imho ridiculous) competitiveness they're trying to promote (and I don't mean real contests, I mean those horrid lucky charms and the rec/post ratio junk). However I have to admit that while he's wrong in his position (according to me anyway) he's been doing an admirable job of keeping the steam in. The reply to you was probably the worst steam-let-off you've seen so far.

Understand the dynamics though...

Yesterday everyone was firing on them, and you saw a pleading attitude.

Then by last night many of the folks either got tired of complaining, or were genuinely appeased by the 30 recs bone that was tossed. This morning you're seeing a more brazen attitude.

I predict that by this evening, or at the latest tomorrow, when the vast majority of Fools have quieted down, and start ferociously turning on their Fellow fools who they now view as a nuisance, complaints will be met with either silence or an even stronger attitude.

This is natural. It follows from the short-attention-span and inherent stupidity of the masses.

All we can hope for, is that any further changes be implemented with a closer eye pointed at how things actually WORK, rather than some ideal way they would want them to WORK.

The suggestion to implement an "I AGREE" button that would replace the REC button, and add a "Best Of" button was made before yesterday, and for some reason that solution wasn't selected. Apparently keeping all Fools happy was deemed less valuable than whatever cost would be incurred by adding a field to a database and a button on a template.

Again, I hope direction changes in the future.

Alessandro
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No. of Recommendations: 0
It's essentially what they have over at GimmeMyStars.

frissy
who thinks real-time chat is redundant on a message board site.
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No. of Recommendations: 15
We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

------------------

When the complaints are consistently made by a single individual, then I would say yes... please leave... you are a bother to the rest of us...

However, when the same complaint is made by many, mnay individuals, on a repeated basis, wouldn't you suspect that the complaint is valid?

Obviously you have turned a deaf ear on those that wish to be heard... SHAME ON YOU! And to top that, you are telling those who continue this route to leave... that's pathetic... totally...

I'm rather disgusted by this poor display of attitude... for shame...


CaveGirl

p.s. this is not a conversationsal board... Bogey said so.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Same thing with classrooms.


No they don't. At least not in AZ. I went through 4 years of hell being verbally and physically abused and harrassed, while school administrators ignored my complaints, before I finally kicked the @$$ of one of the bullies.

Who do you think got the detention?

frissy
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No. of Recommendations: 0
No they don't. At least not in AZ. I went through 4 years of hell being verbally and physically abused and harrassed, while school administrators ignored my complaints, before I finally kicked the @$$ of one of the bullies.

Who do you think got the detention?

frissy


You go girl!

Telly
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No. of Recommendations: 0
When the complaints are consistently made by a single individual, then I would say yes... please leave... you are a bother to the rest of us...

However, when the same complaint is made by many, mnay individuals, on a repeated basis, wouldn't you suspect that the complaint is valid?


I concur!
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Your reactions to the complaints of the past couple days disgust and disappoint me. I've been on the fence about signing up for the $30/3 years deal today but now I certainly will not do so!

Glad I'm not a paying customer!

-mapletree
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Did anyone even request that there be limits?

---------------

Not that I can remember... it was instituted by the powers that be in order to perfect an imperfect system in weeding out the Best of The Best posts... that in response to drawing more serious clients to TMF...

Sooooo, in effect they are telling the long term base of posters at TMF that their opinions no longer matter and to basically piss off...

That's how I read it...


CaveGirl
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No. of Recommendations: 0
David,

What makes this board unreadable is all the people typing "I agree" and "I concur" because they have run out of recs. And 30 won't solve the problem. Some people only have one or two days a week to catch up on posts. They can't get here every day. Perhaps unlimited rec-ing is too much to ask, considering that the Fool has a financial incentive to limit recs, but perhaps 100 or 200 is more reasonable.

P.

Gunsroland,

If you are truly this dissatisfied with our service or if you truly distrust us that much, why bother? I encourage you to walk. By canceling today, you can still save your entire $30. And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business, and while we'd like the business of as many people as we can get, we also find that constant reiterations of the same complaints (as opposed to suggestions to Improve the Fool) from even just the few people doing so on this board makes it unreadable for many others. Post and make your point. Fine. Reposting over and over won't change a thing, other than ruin the conversation.

So thanks for caring, but if you truly don't, please help the rest of us who do and post your point and leave it there. And if you find the service distasteful, we're the first to tell you your dollar a month might be put to more satisfying use to you, elsewhere.

David G.



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No. of Recommendations: 2
You have no recommendations left for today. (explain this)

I'd rec your post 100 times if I could, but as you can see, I am all out...

I too, cancelled my charter member subscription in protest.

I too, was promptly dismissed as being part of the "vocal minority".

I too, found all my comments and suggestions about putting unlimited recs back in place and instead focus on real, value-added navigation aids constantly ignored.

I too, am saddened.

It does seem that all good things must come to and end....

MikE
Ex-charter member who is looking forward to getting some free time back.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
You have no recommendations left for today. (explain this)

Cavegirl,

Right on! Well said. But I'm all out of recs....

MikE
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Is 30 RECS your idea of WAY UP????????????????????????

It's enough to cover 97%+ of those who rec.

-Terry
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No. of Recommendations: 4
Further, if you're familiar with how clubs work, they occasionally exclude members who are disruptive or undermining the enjoyment of many others. So does every business in America. Same thing with classrooms.

And The Motley Fool community is something of all of these.

Thanks for writing,

David


You are really showing your colors. The most (there are a number) troubling part of your reasoning is that you are making yourself the judge and jury on what is disruptive. Whether you fully appreciated it or not there are many thoughtful people who post here that value diversity of opinion and are very suspicious of people who claim to be experts on defining boundaries in a free society. In addition to your most recent "take a hike if you do not like it post", I would also like to point out that the fool actively attempts to suppress posters they do not like by post pulling and suspensions.

This "my way or the highway" mentality which you are so forcefully exhibiting is particularly troubling for an investment site that derives it's real value for users by enabling open vetting of often conflicting views on stock valuation. You are not so foolish to really think people stay at this site because of the fool's investment acumen are you?

While this current discussion may appear unrelated to investment boards, most of us have often witnessed and participated in emotionally charged discussions between bull and bears on stocks using exactly the same kind of rehetoric in play here today; "stop being dissruptive", "if you do not like our opinions, take a hike",etc.etc. This kind of dissension is what makes the boards vital and a useful read.

The essence of the mentallity that you are displaying here today is shocking because you are making a mockery of what makes this site actually valuable. Unfortunately I am not surprised.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Ouch.

-Terry
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Hi TMFBogey,

I don't have time to read entirely through this thread as the job is calling, but it WOULD be interesting to see what the response is to the same poll in a few days. Comparison purposes, if you will. I have no clue why the rec's were limited to 12, although I'm thinking it has something to do with the contest, but I don't imagine that it is generally necessary to limit them. The spell check would be nice. I'm not sure what private club-style boards are like, so it's hard to answer that one. Real-time chat.. well, no. Usually people are back to work or sleeping when I post, and it would be a bit dull. Also, on the ability to see all posts to a thread on one page - my eyesight isn't what it use to be. All that tiny print on one page I just can't see as helpful. Please advise, if I have misread this.

:)

foolwizard
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No. of Recommendations: 0
David,

As one of the 79 people who rec'd your post, I'm wondering why this post isn't showing up in the best of feature. You got more recs than any other post that appears there. Could there be some sort of technical malfunction going on with this feature ? I know that the interface looks a little different than it used to. Maybe there is a problem that needs to be looked into.

tabletennis
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No. of Recommendations: 0
non identical message 17

Lose count?

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=16712471

IF
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I'd like to see Dave and brother hit the road at least a couple of times a year to keep your name fresh!

gnos

after this rec business dies down.

gnos

can't wait for the reaction to your next move.

stiff upper lip

gnos

Turly anyone coould make a free board if tye really really
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No. of Recommendations: 1
This is The Motley Fool, m'man, not Money magazine.

Are you right, dude!

This website is definitely not Money magazine. But, you behave like it is. Funny, that.

2195501y
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No. of Recommendations: 0

Again, we do want the business of as many people who care about making The Motley Fool a pre-eminent community that mutually educates, amuses, and enriches. And this has in the past 2 weeks been validated by many thousands, and it is to them that we now direct our focus on the discussion boards.

Fool on,

DG


But will you listen and Act on what we have tried to tell you in the last 27000 posts?

€z
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Why do so many of you complain like children who are not getting their way? The word spoilt comes to mind.

As best as I can see, up until now you have all had something valuable for free.

Now if you want it, you got to pay. If you don't want to pay then just leave, get over it and stop complaining.

Given that from tomorrow there will only be paying members here, I am sure that if enough of us seriously want the number of rec's increased, it will be done. Give them a chance to make an informed decision based on what their paying members want.

Chops.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
I don't know, I saw a lot of blue hats next to poster's names that were complaining. I figure people that are ponying up for a service would like to feel like they are getting a service, not dictates from on high.

At least that's the vibe I'm getting from most of the 'whiners'. Not to mention that the whole poll this thread was based on isn't worth the electrons being burned up to display it on my monitor.

You are correct in saying that up until now we have all had something valueable for free and that now we are paying for it. To reduce the percieved value after a price increase is going to understandably annoy some people. Ask anybody who is suffering through the switchover from Media One and @Home to Comcast about that. I'm out here in Michigan and desperately looking for another high speed provider because with Comcast you get more cost for less service, much in the same way that many people are seeing the Fool boards right now.

So chumpowski, what services being changed/updated/taken away would get you miffed enough to complain? And if changes to those services were put in place and you started crying like a four year old girl, could we all just tell you to 'get over it and stop complaining'?

Or do you just meekly take whatever is given to you and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" Would the Fool Url Cruising Kit You Oughtta Use be ok with you (http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=16701549 for details), or would you start complaining about that? After all, you would just be asked to pay for a valueable service with this new "feature" of the Fool.com site. Or would this perhaps be going over the line? Where do YOU draw the line between people whining and what is actually a drop in service that will affect people's utility of the service?

The Fool has always been open to criticism in various forms, and comments from the community do make a difference in a lot of cases. I'm guessing that's the big part of the seemingly 'spoilt' behavior. People on this site are used to having their voice heard and their opinions count, so they are apt to express them. In return the Fool usually doesn't beat around the bush regarding their reasons and opinions for certain policies.

Personally I wish more people had the brass of Dave (see http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=16707361 for just one example in the past couple days). I have been driven to the brink of madness by people who are higher than me in the organization I work for trying to bend over backwards because "the customer is always right". Some people were actually put off by Dave's comments about 'not needing your business'. Well, I have to agree with Dave on this one. Sometimes the customer SHOULD be told to take a flying leap. Sometims the customer is full of sh!t. If they don't like what they're getting, they can shop elsewhere.

I'm not particularly keen on the new rec policy, and I think I've made that point clear in various places, but it's their site and to be honest, the recs aren't the be all and end all of coming here. But as they do serve a useful purpose for a lot of people, imposing arbitrary limits is going to take away from their usefulness for some. It's also an issue, as many including myself have pointed out in one way or another, about being charged for a formerly free service and having that service become more limited. That is something I always have and always will have great issue with. And I'm not afraid to share that displeasure because somebody out there who doesn't care as much thinks I'm whining.

I'm guessing you think the US of A was founded by a bunch of whiners. After all, what's the big deal about having about 2% of your income taxed? Just get over it. What a bunch of spoilt little baby colonists getting used their freedom from being in the New World and then to have that pesky monarchy impose rules and taxes and limitations. What a bunch of babies. And don't get me started on the stupid hats. Differnt scale, same principle.

At least that's how I see it.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
considering that the Fool has a financial incentive to limit recs,

What is their financial incentive? If that's the case, then this whole thing would make more sense to me. (It would tick me off more, but it would make more sense.)

Caat
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No. of Recommendations: 1
It's like this. They have set up a competition to create good content, by making people go for a good rec/post ratio. That's one incentive -- creation of superior content to attract new members. But they have also monetized the recs, because they will give away more free memberships in the future to people with good rec/post ratios who make the top-whatever lists consistently. Unlimited recs would game that system and they'd be giving out free memberships to anyone who felt like manipulating the program.

What is their financial incentive? If that's the case, then this whole thing would make more sense to me. (It would tick me off more, but it would make more sense.)

Caat
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No. of Recommendations: 2
"And this goes for anyone who isn't happy with the service. We truly don't need your business..."


Well, since you are a representative of TMF, and you stated that my business isn't needed, I have no intention of giving TMF one dime. My "charter memebership" will end in a year and you can kiss my...I mean, me goodbye.

L
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"Is this to say that the Fool is going to expand its sensorship of posts which it does not agree with? What is off topic about discussing a policy change on this board, which is where these things are supposed to be discussed?

Am I the only one lost on this one???"



Nope, it wasn't lost on me. If you are loud and let them know they made a mistake, you will be labeled a "nuisance" and told to take your business elsewhere. Didn't Enron do something like this...."You just don't understand..."

L
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No. of Recommendations: 22
Hi uwalum,

I think that there is a difference between pointing out a problem, so that they are aware of a mistake, and repeatedly posting about the mistake.

Tell me, which do you react to better- someone pointing out something that they think is wrong, giving you a chance to consider the situation and work out the best solution for all involved; or for them to come to you every 5 minutes and complain about what they think is wrong, badgering you to do what they want, not letting you think through the options and getting progressively ruder as they go, in the process disrupting everyone else in the area?

As a salesman, I'll tell you that the polite customer who will explain their view, give me time to consider the situation and work out the best way of going forward will both increase the chances of my putting in the extra effort to accomodate their wishes, and the chances of my being willing to come back to them with other products and services which will be beneficial to them. The rude and disruptive customers put my back up, increasing my resistance to their wishes and ensuring that I will avoid going out of my way to help them in the future. It's simple psychology.

The TMFs faced extremely rude and disruptive posts that were of the type where I was tempted to post replies in such a way that I would have had posts pulled for breaching the posting rules, and I would probably have had my membership suspended too. All that David did was say that, if you thought that things really were so bad that you had to be rude and obnoxious while they were trying to assess what changes, if any, to make, then the chances are that you would not be happy being a member anyway. Dealing with a few antagonistic and disruptive posters takes time away from solving issues. If people are willing to let the TMFs work on solving a problem, then they are welcome to stay, but who benefits by the disruption? Not the complainer, because they are increasing the resistance they will face, and not the members, because time and effort is being used dealing with the disruptive posts rather than working on improving the service provided. As a result, the Fool would be betteroff without the few disruptive posters, so that they can focus on the much higher number of members who are willing to work with them, or at least get a chnace to decide what to do about the issue.

Lost
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I think that there is a difference between pointing out a problem, so that they are aware of a mistake, and repeatedly posting about the mistake.



That was the impression I got from the jump. I don't know if you are old enough to remember record <g>, the sound of a broker record needs a lil nudge sometimes. Otherwise, it's just noise.
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"Tell me, which do you react to better- someone pointing out something that they think is wrong, giving you a chance to consider the situation and work out the best solution for all involved; or for them to come to you every 5 minutes and complain about what they think is wrong, badgering you to do what they want, not letting you think through the options and getting progressively ruder as they go, in the process disrupting everyone else in the area?"


Well, you asked. I am a business owner, and I would never, ever speak to a customer in the fashion that the owner of TMF spoke to one of his clients in a public forum for everyone to see. It reflects badly on the owner of a company. Pretty simple really.


L
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No. of Recommendations: 3
LostInThought apologizes for the way this place is run:

"Tell me, which do you react to better- someone pointing out something that they think is wrong, giving you a chance to consider the situation and work out the best solution for all involved; or for them to come to you every 5 minutes and complain about what they think is wrong..."

Oh - if only it had worked that way.

The fools announced that they were going to limit recs - but they wouldn't say how. Reaction was skeptical, tending towards negative.

The fool then imposed a limitation on recs - every negative reaction was met with variations "on you don't understand / you'll like it eventually / we had to do it to solve another problem." This was the reaction to posts clearly, rationally, and civilly expressed (read Albaby1's message and the responses to it - you can't get much more civil and well-thought than that, and they STILL haven't answered his question). When asked what horrible 'problem' the rec limitation would solve the fool's answers have been little better than mumbles and a tap dance.

In a private e-mail I was told by a TMF staffer that I was being 'abusive' - I believe my offense was asking 'which chowderheads come up with these ideas?' - and asking that they provide some evidence of the 'problem' they were trying to solve with the rec limitation. It is very convenient (and predictable) for TMF apologists to write this whole thing off as ravings of some disgruntled, never-satisfied rabble - and since the greater Fool owns the site he can act as if that is true. That doesn't change the fact that the rec limitation represents a reduction in functionality, which was imposed to 'solve' a non-existent problem with a feature nobody had asked for, and which is now defended out of stubborness and pride.

"Dealing with a few antagonistic and disruptive posters takes time away from solving issues."

And those posters became 'antagonistic and disruptive' (to the extent that they are - I don't think it is that bad) because the Fool has a long history of brushing off criticism, and they were right back at it. The time spent on implementing this non-solution and unwanted charm could as easily been spent on getting the portfolios to calculate correctly - and if it had been, there would have been no need to deal with people concerned about this harebrained 'rec limit' scheme.

Dean
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Well, you asked. I am a business owner, and I would never, ever speak to a customer in the fashion that the owner of TMF spoke to one of his clients in a public forum for everyone to see. It reflects badly on the owner of a company. Pretty simple really.

What do you do when a customer makes it obvious to you that he/she is not going to be happy no matter what you do or say?

-Terry
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No. of Recommendations: 1
The fool then imposed a limitation on recs - every negative reaction was met with variations "on you don't understand / you'll like it eventually / we had to do it to solve another problem." This was the reaction to posts clearly, rationally, and civilly expressed (read Albaby1's message and the responses to it - you can't get much more civil and well-thought than that, and they STILL haven't answered his question). When asked what horrible 'problem' the rec limitation would solve the fool's answers have been little better than mumbles and a tap dance.

I thought the question was answered quite clearly.

In a private e-mail I was told by a TMF staffer that I was being 'abusive' - I believe my offense was asking 'which chowderheads come up with these ideas?' - and asking that they provide some evidence of the 'problem' they were trying to solve with the rec limitation. It is very convenient (and predictable) for TMF apologists to write this whole thing off as ravings of some disgruntled, never-satisfied rabble - and since the greater Fool owns the site he can act as if that is true. That doesn't change the fact that the rec limitation represents a reduction in functionality, which was imposed to 'solve' a non-existent problem with a feature nobody had asked for, and which is now defended out of stubborness and pride.

The problem was real, the solution was asked for (in an earlier post I linked in some messages from October where people talked about rec limits), and, if you look at the top posts list (http://fireboards.fool.com/BestOf.asp?topwhat=rec&numofposts=25&folder=all&ticker=&span=24hours&from=2%2F1%2F02&to=2%2F15%2F02&submit.x=17&submit.y=7), the improvement is evident.

I think there's a better solution, but that's another story.

-Terry
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"What do you do when a customer makes it obvious to you that he/she is not going to be happy no matter what you do or say?"



I've only had one customer who was upset to the point that it was evident that I couldn't help them. I let them vent. There is no way that I want to be abusive to a client and have that get around! It would adversely affect my business since I get a lot of business from word of mouth.

Every other client that expressed some dissatisfaction has been satisfied when we were done. It is my opinion that is good business practice.

Telling even one customer that you don't need their business reflects back that they don't need any business. How much cash have these guys made over the past decade on this little venture? I would guess that a financial review of their past records might indicate more patience towards the people who put the cash there in the first place.

That's my theory.


L
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No. of Recommendations: 2
I can relate to this. The real bullies in my school never got detention for actually doing bully-ish stuff. they only got detention for calling the teacher a dumb @$%$ to his face and throwing things in class. Teachers never gave a rip what they did on the playground.

Penny
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No. of Recommendations: 0
I checked ability to see all posts of a thread on one page, not because I want that, but because I wanted to vote against all the others, and it is the least worst of the options. I would have prefered the option to select none of above. Or possibly the option to have a few more choices in polls (not a lot more; e.g., maybe 7).
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No. of Recommendations: 2
I checked ability to see all posts of a thread on one page, not because I want that, but because I wanted to vote against all the others, and it is the least worst of the options. I would have prefered the option to select none of above. Or possibly the option to have a few more choices in polls (not a lot more; e.g., maybe 7).

Why vote in a 11 year old poll that was created by a TMF employee that is no longer there?
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Why vote in a 11 year old poll that was created by a TMF employee that is no longer there?

Early onset.
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