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Of the century.

Show your work.
GW Bush
Trump

Click here to see results so far.

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No. of Recommendations: 2
GW was a poor president, but improved over time. Post 2006 was... meh. Not exactly good, but not horrific.
Obama started out promising, but in contrast to GW got worse over time. By the end he was significantly worse than GW ever was.
Trump is simply not fit and never was. Over time I think he has gotten comfortable and as a consequence has also gotten sloppy.

It is a sad truth that the finest man to serve in the office over the last 30 years was Bill Clinton.
What does that say? Particularly when we could have had either Dole or McCain?
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I agree.

Trump has no humility which I think the job needs. He’s never had an ounce of it and prides himself on that. His first job out of college he was the boss and never had to take orders from anyone.

Agree that Clinton was the best in recent times.
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I hate to say it.

Thus far, Trump has committed America to the greatest foreign policy debacle in a generation that costed 1000s of American lives and even more Iraqi lives.

So I gotta say - W Bush - whom I voted for twice -- was worse than Trump (so far).

As a. person, as a man? I think Trump is the bottom 3rd of American humanity.

JediG
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Agree that Clinton was the best in recent times.

Maybe so. Likely the most intelligent, nosing Obama out of first place on that score. But Obama has them all beat with personal behavior and interpersonal attitude going back to at least Eisenhower and probably much further. Maybe all the way back.

Every president before him would be incensed at Trump in every way from his laziness on the job to his idiotic tweets, personnel (and personal-) decisions, and policies. Not to mention the serious nepotism.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
He’s never had an ounce of (humility) and prides himself on that.

The West Point Way of Leadership by Larry Donnithorne is one of the best books I have ever read.
"In learning followership one attains an intimate understanding of the ways and values of the organization one's labor sustains. For us, followership is a form of self-mastery, mastering of the ego."
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No. of Recommendations: 3
You're missing Obama. Top 5 all time worst US President.
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Since 1975.....


1.)Reagan

2.)Obama

3.)Clinton

4.)W Bush

5.)Trump

6.)Carter


That's my opinion


JediG
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No. of Recommendations: 24
Up until 2009, Bush the Lesser was the worst President we had my lifetime. Incompetent and shortsighted, he dragged us into more than a decade of unnecessary wars that cost us greatly in both blood and treasure.

Trump now takes that title. Hands down, no question, Trump is the worst President of the last 60 years. Unfit, mentally unstable, driven by greed, ego, and personal gain, having no perceivable moral boundaries, and being profoundly ignorant of our history, our system of government, and the world, Trump will leave an ugly stain.

Beyond that, he is surely the worst human being that we as a nation have ever elected to a position of significant power, and that is our national shame. Trump has no values, no ethics, no morals, no class.
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No. of Recommendations: 5
Worst to best in my memory, since Nixon.

The order roughly corresponds to the level of corruption in each administration, but other factors are at play. In general, the Democrats seem to have been getting better and the Republicans worse. You can tell from the ordering that I vote Democrat.

Trump, for me, has essentially no redeeming features as a President. I disagree with his policies and he is divisive and corrupt. His foreign policy will prove to have been a disaster.

Nixon was also corrupt, but he did accomplish some worthwhile things, including relations with China and the EPA. If it hadn't been for Watergate, he would certainly move up a few positions.

G.W. Bush looks better now, just in comparison with Trump. Not the smartest President we've had and I disagree with a lot of his policies. Kind of a goofball, really. But, he did surround himself, for the most part, with competent people. 9-11 happened on his watch as did the last big recession.

Reagan was not a favorite of mine, and there was a certainly a degree of corruption in his administration, but he was a great speaker and he did a good job of inspiring bringing the country together after Nixon-Ford-Carter. I believe he cared about the country. He gets credit for the end of the cold war (or at least a pause), but that may have just been the times.

Ford: I don't remember a lot about his term of office. The economy wasn't doing well, with high inflation. Unsure of how much his policies affected that. Pardoned Nixon.

Carter: Looks a little better in hindsight, but not a great time for our country. Troubles in the Mideast and a still struggling economy. More inspiring in his activities since leaving the Presidency.

Bush, Sr.: Best of the Republican crop, and a moderate, so, of course, he wasn't re-elected.

Clinton: A moderate Democrat in time of reasonable peace and prosperity. He might rank #1 if it weren't for that little matter of lying under oath.

Obama: A mostly scandal-free Presidency and he oversaw an economic recovery. He did oversee an increase in partisan in-fighting, but I don't know what he could have done differently.
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Since 1975.....

1. Reagan
2a. Bush43 (people forget how uncertain things were post 9/11)
2b. Ford (underrated as a President. That he's this high shows that we haven't had the greatest chief execs since
4. Bush43 (moves ahead of Clinton for his masterful execution of Gulf War I, loses considerable points for the aftermath and Read My Lips)
5. Carter - gets a bad rap for the national malaise speech. Mostly loses points for the feckless response to Iran and a perception of a weak America during his time. Like Ike, he doesn't get credit for starting some things.
6. Clinton (decent economy handler, although anybody could have done that with the internet booming. Loses points for setting conditions that were to blow up in the subprime crisis (liberals don't understand incentive creation). Loses more points for abusing the power of his office and being impeached for it).

7. Obama (used the regulatory state to punish ordinary citizens, presided over a feckless and weak foreign policy, weaponized the nation's intelligence and law enforcement organs to undermine a newly elected President)
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No. of Recommendations: 3
This century? That leaves only GW Bush, Obama, and Trump. (I'm going to ignore Clinton's lame duck 3 weeks in this century.) Given those, the ordering is simple. Trump is at the bottom. I'm giving Obama the edge over Bush, but not by much.

Both Bush and Obama are good men - men with a set of internal ethics and morals. I disagreed with Bush's decisions far more than Obama's, but I think both men were genuinely doing what they thought was right for the country. Bush got a bit more done than Obama, partly due to a friendlier Congress and partly due to Obama's failure to actively engage the opposition to find ways to get things done. (There's likely a bit of racism there by some members of the opposition as well - not overt but internal and subtle.) However, Obama did get a signature bit of legislation passed - one that has made a significant difference in the lives of millions of Americans. That gives him the edge over the guy who started a war with the wrong country and wrecked the economy.

Trump has no internal ethics or morals. In spite of the best efforts of his early advisors, he has surrounded himself with men of similar character. He doesn't consider the advice of subject matter experts, depending instead on his flawed thinking. Most importantly, Trump appears to be far more concerned about himself and how others think of him than about the good of the country. That last bit puts him easily at the bottom of the three. Low enough that he isn't fit to tie the shoes of the two men who preceded him in office.

--Peter
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Trump is clearly at the top of the pile. Notable for reclaiming America for the interests and values of patriotic nationalists, and famous for his grit, determination and courage to disparage the hysterical attacks made upon him by liberal internationalists, who are in the process of being displaced from political power.


Obama is at the bottom of the heap, for the opposite reason that Trump is at the top.

Bush was the typical Republican who slowed the ability of liberal internationalists to take power in the United States, but never had the courage or ability to really oppose them.

As is so common in politics, the real issue here is which values you want to see controlling politics and government. It's really not a matter of the character of Presidents but the political agenda they implement that is going to decide which President is better or worse for most people.


Seattle Pioneer
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No. of Recommendations: 16
Trump is clearly at the top of the pile. Notable for reclaiming America for the interests and values of patriotic nationalists, and famous for his grit, determination and courage to disparage the hysterical attacks made upon him by liberal internationalists, who are in the process of being displaced from political power. Obama is at the bottom of the heap, for the opposite reason that Trump is at the top.

That is one bizarro, twisted up world you live in. Upside down and backwards, across the board.
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<<That is one bizarro, twisted up world you live in. Upside down and backwards, across the board.>>


You prove that you don't understand the first thing about politics, which is that people commonly disagree about it.

You take your own values for granted and can't imagine that anyone would have a reason to disagree with them.

This is what comes of too much diversity training that is all about indoctrinating people in one narrow ideology, and not understanding the true diversity in the politics of human beings.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<That is one bizarro, twisted up world you live in. Upside down and backwards, across the board.>>

You prove that you don't understand the first thing about politics, which is that people commonly disagree about it.

No, I get that part.

You take your own values for granted and can't imagine that anyone would have a reason to disagree with them.

Not sure where you get that idea.

This is what comes of too much diversity training that is all about indoctrinating people in one narrow ideology, and not understanding the true diversity in the politics of human beings.

Actually, I'm not sure where you get any of your ideas. But you say that "Trump is clearly at the top of the pile." Do you know that there are people who actually rank Presidents? None of them will ever, ever put Trump at the top of ANY list, unless it was a "worst of".

You say Trump is "Notable for reclaiming America for the interests and values of patriotic nationalists, and famous for his grit, determination and courage", when Trump is actually recognized for working in hs own personal interests, and has shown zero courage - using fake bone spurs to get out or serving his country and putting his miserable life on the line. His grit and determination fail him when he loses a lawsuit and settles, even though he swears he never settles. He throws other under the bus when convenient, even thought people have served him faithfully. His patriotism ends where his hidden tax returns begin, and his family has defrauded our country our of millions of dollars. He his recognized more for bankruptcy and cheating than he is for any particular business acumen.

You are clearly enamored with Trump and are able to ignore his crass ignorance, blatant dishonesty, and crude language. It does not bother you that he has left a trial of lies and deceit throughout his life, cheating at anything and everything he can. You don't mind that he pays off porn stars to keep quiet about affairs, and that his sleazy business practices are hidden behind his refusal to present his financial records. You happily defend the indefensible. The list of shady aspects of Trump goes on and one, yet you remain a rabid fan.

History will judge him to have been an awful human being, a terrible businessman, and a national embarrassment as President.

I can only hope that someone very much like Trump comes into your personal life, and interacts with you and yours in a big way. Maybe then you would understand.

I get that people can have differing opinions, but there comes point where two people are so far apart that there is no rational basis to even start a conversation. You leaped over that line going ago. There is no discussing this with you.

Suffice it to say that there are few people who share your views, and fewer every day.
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<<That is one bizarro, twisted up world you live in. Upside down and backwards, across the board.>>


You prove that you don't understand the first thing about politics, which is that people commonly disagree about it.

Btw, you just 'proved' that you don't understand the first thing about the word 'prove'. Your opinion is yours, but it is not 'proof' of anything other than your opinion.
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<<You say Trump is "Notable for reclaiming America for the interests and values of patriotic nationalists, and famous for his grit, determination and courage", when Trump is actually recognized for working in hs own personal interests, and has shown zero courage - using fake bone spurs to get out or serving his country and putting his miserable life on the line. >>


Changing the subject to something you find more appealing, I see.

What Trump did to escape the draft is entirely beside the point. My experience as a Vietnam era draft resistance counselor is that people could very often never be drafted if they used the legal avenues available to them. Trump did, Clinton did. I did.

As a leftist working in leftist organization, that was our OBJECTIVE at the time. No different than encouraging people to use legal means to reduce their income taxes.


Trump is showing GREAT courage, grit and determination to oppose the hysterical hatred of liberals, the Democratic Party, the New York Times, Washington Post and news media in general, all of which have been out to destroy him and the politics he represents since the day he was elected.

Compare Trump to Ross Perot, who MIGHT have been Donald Trump in 1992. Unfortunately, Perot, while an experienced businessman, was completely unprepared for the hate his candidacy created. He was crushed. Trump won and continues to win.

Politicians are chosen to acquire power and carry out a political agenda, not because they are saints. Trump has been doing all I could ask to carry out the political agenda he was elected upon against the avalanche of opposition of liberals who can see that there power is eroding.


<<His grit and determination fail him when he loses a lawsuit and settles, even though he swears he never settles. He throws other under the bus when convenient, even thought people have served him faithfully. >>


Settling lawsuits merely demonstrated Trump's ability to compromise when there is reason to do so. Dumping people who have become political liabilities is a fact of life among politicians. ----again illustrating Trump's adaptability.


<<. His patriotism ends where his hidden tax returns begin, and his family has defrauded our country our of millions of dollars.>>


You are simply guessing. Trump has presumably been keeping the IRS happy his entire life. It's amusing to see the New York Times frustrated in not being able to get Trump's tax returns by any means despite years of effort. In short ----tough.


I would expect you to put Obama at the top of your list, just as I put Trump at the top of mine. That's because we have different political agendas we want our Presidents to carry out.


Seattle Pioneer
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<<You say Trump is "Notable for reclaiming America for the interests and values of patriotic nationalists, and famous for his grit, determination and courage", when Trump is actually recognized for working in hs own personal interests, and has shown zero courage - using fake bone spurs to get out or serving his country and putting his miserable life on the line. >>

Changing the subject to something you find more appealing, I see.

??? I am responding to what you said. And the subject remains Trump.

What Trump did to escape the draft is entirely beside the point.

Really? Do the fake bone spurs fall under "grit", "determination", or "courage" in your view? In m int it is a lack of courage.

Trump is showing GREAT courage, grit and determination to oppose the hysterical hatred of liberals, the Democratic Party, the New York Times, Washington Post and news media in general, all of which have been out to destroy him and the politics he represents since the day he was elected.

None of that meets my definition of courage. Sorry.

Politicians are chosen to acquire power and carry out a political agenda, not because they are saints. Trump has been doing all I could ask to carry out the political agenda he was elected upon against the avalanche of opposition of liberals who can see that there power is eroding.

Most Americans disapprove.

<<His grit and determination fail him when he loses a lawsuit and settles, even though he swears he never settles. He throws other under the bus when convenient, even thought people have served him faithfully. >>

Settling lawsuits merely demonstrated Trump's ability to compromise when there is reason to do so.

How does lying about it fit in?

Dumping people who have become political liabilities is a fact of life among politicians. ----again illustrating Trump's adaptability.

You can spin anything. Well done.

<<. His patriotism ends where his hidden tax returns begin, and his family has defrauded our country our of millions of dollars.>>

You are simply guessing.

Not at all. Look up the family history. Fred bilked the country for millions over the years via tax fraud and got away with it. Donald learned that lesson well and has done the same. They have a history of fraud, and not just a single instance. It is a family plan.

Trump has presumably been keeping the IRS happy his entire life. It's amusing to see the New York Times frustrated in not being able to get Trump's tax returns by any means despite years of effort. In short ----tough.

That he is so desperate to hide his tax returns doesn't give you any pause about what they might reveal? It tells me he is clearly hiding something.

I would expect you to put Obama at the top of your list, just as I put Trump at the top of mine. That's because we have different political agendas we want our Presidents to carry out.

No, I liked Obama, a lot, but Clinton was a better President.
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<<Trump has presumably been keeping the IRS happy his entire life. It's amusing to see the New York Times frustrated in not being able to get Trump's tax returns by any means despite years of effort. In short ----tough.

That he is so desperate to hide his tax returns doesn't give you any pause about what they might reveal? It tells me he is clearly hiding something.>>



Trump's taxes are between him and the IRS as far as I'm concerned.


Perhaps he just enjoys teasing you and the New York Times.


<<What Trump did to escape the draft is entirely beside the point.

Really? Do the fake bone spurs fall under "grit", "determination", or "courage" in your view? In m int it is a lack of courage.>>


Not relevant to Trump's performance as President. Neither was Clinton's efforts to avoid the draft ----or mine.

People who didn't want to be drafted very often could avoid that if they were willing to spend some time and money to do so. I made a point of requesting to be classified 1A and go through a pre induction physical at one point, because doing so guaranteed me a permanent exemption from being drafted.


The draft in the 1960s was a trap to catch the unwary.

But that really has nothing to do with Trump's courage, grit and determination to oppose liberal internationalists as President.


But it's no surprise that you don't like Trump, just as I don't like Obama's record as President.


Seattle Pioneer
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<<Trump has presumably been keeping the IRS happy his entire life. It's amusing to see the New York Times frustrated in not being able to get Trump's tax returns by any means despite years of effort. In short ----tough.

That he is so desperate to hide his tax returns doesn't give you any pause about what they might reveal? It tells me he is clearly hiding something.>>

Trump's taxes are between him and the IRS as far as I'm concerned.

Of course they are. And you will have no interest in Joe Biden's finances when he becomes President, I'm sure.



<<What Trump did to escape the draft is entirely beside the point.

Really? Do the fake bone spurs fall under "grit", "determination", or "courage" in your view? In m int it is a lack of courage.>>

Not relevant to Trump's performance as President. Neither was Clinton's efforts to avoid the draft ----or mine.

Yes, I never consider anyone's character or past performance when hiring for an important job.



But that really has nothing to do with Trump's courage, grit and determination to oppose liberal internationalists as President.

How much courage do you think it takes to rant on Twitter?
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<<Not relevant to Trump's performance as President. Neither was Clinton's efforts to avoid the draft ----or mine.

Yes, I never consider anyone's character or past performance when hiring for an important job.>>



Is that so? So you thought Hillary was unqualified to be President because she used her sex to avoid the draft an military service while he husband was doing his own dance to avoid being drafted?

The simple fact is that the draft was a corrupt system which offered the interested person a wide variety of ways to legally avoid being inducted into the military. The interested person was entitled to use any and all such methods to avoid being drafted, no different than taking deductions on income taxes.

It was the corrupt nature of the draft which contributed mightily to it being discontinued in 1973. That led directly to much higher pay, benefits and treatment for both officers and enlisted people in order to make the volunteer military work, rather than the slave based system of the draft.

But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?



Seattle Pioneer
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LOL. Hiding what, exactly, in his tax returns?

If there was anything there the lamestream media would have had it leaked to them by now.
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But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?

I never served.
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<<But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?

I never served.>>



Bone spurs, I'm guessing?



Seattle Pioneer
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<<Not relevant to Trump's performance as President. Neither was Clinton's efforts to avoid the draft ----or mine.

Yes, I never consider anyone's character or past performance when hiring for an important job.>>

Is that so? So you thought Hillary was unqualified to be President because she used her sex to avoid the draft an military service while he husband was doing his own dance to avoid being drafted?

I thought Hillary was qualified, based on her experience and character. She was certainly more qualified than Trump. But she was a weak candidate. This time around I'd prefer someone like Elizabeth Warren or Joe. Almost anyone but someone like Trump. He is unstable, not too bright, and driven by all the wrong things. His ideas are wrong headed and simplistic. He's done a lot of damage, and we haven't yet felt the impact.

The simple fact is that the draft was a corrupt system...

The draft, like most any system, was imperfect. But it served the purpose

It was the corrupt nature of the draft which contributed mightily to it being discontinued in 1973. That led directly to much higher pay, benefits and treatment for both officers and enlisted people in order to make the volunteer military work, rather than the slave based system of the draft.

The volunteer military only works when don't have large scale wars, and we circumvent the Constitution by never declaring war on anyone and yet have military misadventures all around the globe.

I agree with you - bring them all home. Decrease the size of our military and the enormous military budget. Put those dollars to use in building a better society that works for everyone. But you have to be willing to actually keep your nose out of other countries' business.
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<<I agree with you - bring them all home. Decrease the size of our military and the enormous military budget. Put those dollars to use in building a better society that works for everyone. But you have to be willing to actually keep your nose out of other countries' business.>>



I agree that is a very considerable challenge.


Seattle Pioneer
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<<But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?

I never served.>>


Bone spurs, I'm guessing?

Nope. Had a lucky draft number at the right time. Some friends were not so lucky.
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No. of Recommendations: 17
I'll play. I like the start at 1975 too.

Ranking in order is tough. I'll group them.

Good Presidents--Presidents who generally did well and had at least one major accomplishment
Reagan, Clinton, Obama

Reagan gets credit for handling the Cold War and creating a new optimism in America.

Clinton gets credit for managing a long expansion, reducing welfare roles, and balancing the budget.

Obama gets credit for extending health insurance coverage to ~30 million people, managing the turnaround from the financial collapse, and being a genuinely good human being.

Middling Presidents:--mixed results but significant positive achievements

H.W. should be commended for putting together a global coalition for the first Gulf War. Imagine how many allies we had back then who could trust the word of the USA...

Carter brokered peace between Israel and Egypt which holds today. Domestically, his results were mixed and people didn't want to hear his message of "wear a sweater" in face of high energy prices. He has proven through his life that he is a genuinely good human being.

Bad Presidents:--bad things happened due to their policies

W. Bush
I think Bush made his decisions with the best interests of America at heart. I think he tries to be a good man, has empathy for his fellow human beings, and had a rotten set of cards dealt to him starting in his 1st term (recession, 9/11). Bush deserves genuine credit for his work combating AIDS/HIV in Africa.

He is interesting in that in general he ran a pretty competent administration. He passed his agenda--too bad it was a pretty lousy agenda.

Several of his deliberate acts resulted in long-term negative damage to America. Invading Iraq has proven to be a colossal failure. Poor planning and even worse execution of the post-war strategy (or lack thereof) resulted in chaos, increased Iranian influence, and a near-failed state of Iraq which is a prime breeding ground for terrorists.

His term ended in financial collapse, trillion dollar deficits, a terrible record of job growth, and the global goodwill towards America after 9/11 largely squandered.

Outside of Bush's work in Africa, it is difficult to point to a specific policy or program under his administration with lasting positive benefits to America.

The Worst
Trump

The damage inflicted by Trump on America will last a long time. The latest move abandoning the Kurds is a good example. What does it mean to be the ally of the USA anymore? Who will sign up to help us fight the terrorists or communists or fascists the next time?

Trump is a national shame on the global stage. He is vulgar, cruel, narcissistic, and lacks the basic dignity and humanity to represent the country. He shows no humility in his actions to indicate that he knows he represents something much greater than himself--The United States of America, the beacon of freedom and democracy in the world. Trump doesn't seem to care about freedom or democracy.

His administration exhibits widespread incompetence. Any week you can point to a blunder. Hire Trey Gowdy claiming you have it cleared. Less than 24 hours later, no, he cannot serve. All the "best" people have gone, leaving empty chairs or "acting" agency heads.

So far, the only thing Trump's supporters can point to is the economy. Again, what specific policy resulted in the economy being good? Tax cuts? Remember they were supposed to create 5% growth? Instead, growth is stuck around 2% (like it was for the last 6 years of Obama). Because of the tax cuts, the deficit (during record low unemployment) is at $1 trillion.

I won't even start with the abuse of power for which I believe Trump will be impeached. (I doubt the GOP turns on him and votes to remove him from office, but they should.) Asking foreign governments to interfere in American elections is a terrible precedent.

We can only hope Trump is gone (via impeachment or election) before he can do a full 8 years of damage to America.
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Excellent analysis and summary, Saunafool. A few comments;

Bush deserves genuine credit for his work combating AIDS/HIV in Africa.

Agreed. Otherwise, he was a really terrible President. I did not expect we could do worse - but then Trump came along.

So far, the only thing Trump's supporters can point to is the economy. Again, what specific policy resulted in the economy being good? Tax cuts? Remember they were supposed to create 5% growth? Instead, growth is stuck around 2% (like it was for the last 6 years of Obama). Because of the tax cuts, the deficit (during record low unemployment) is at $1 trillion.

Agreed, and it is worse than that. Trump takes credit for the positive economy, but there is no visible indication in charts of economic data that he had anything at all to do with the positives we've been experiencing. As you noted the tax cuts did not do what they were supposed to do, of course. However, the negative signs on the horizon - slowing growth, manufacturing ills, etc, etc - all may be laid at the feet of his unnecessary trade war, and random elimination of existing trade agreements.

Foreign policy blunders have been regular and spectacularly bad under this corrupt and incompetent administration.

Trump is a stain.
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"Carter brokered peace between Israel and Egypt which holds today. Domestically, his results were mixed and people didn't want to hear his message of "wear a sweater" in face of high energy prices."

Funny thing is I have all these cold weather clothes to wear around the house, but since I've switched from oil heat to gas I rarely wear them and just either push the thermostat up or use an electric space heater for those stubborn cold areas. My dream of retrofitting the old house with better insulation now goes into the category of the next owners can deal with that.

Maybe this winter I'll use more restraint and wear more sweaters, etc. - maybe not. BUT Carter was right in urging the use of warmer clothes just on a global warming/use less fossil fuels front.

Ken
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“Carter brokered peace between Israel and Egypt which holds today. Domestically, his results were mixed and people didn't want to hear his message of "wear a sweater" in face of high energy prices."
—————————————————
Jimmy Carter’s great achievement of Israel being friends with Egypt

It’s like Obama’s achievement of getting Iran to be peaceful

Amazing accomplishments. You are such an accomplished group of accomplishers
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<<No. of Recommendations: 0
<<But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?

I never served.>>


Bone spurs, I'm guessing?

Nope. Had a lucky draft number at the right time. Some friends were not so lucky.>>




So you used the legal means available to you to avoid being drafted.

That's what Trump, Bill and Hillary Clinton and I did, and a lot of other people who decided they didn't want to be drafted. Of course all women were legally excluded from being drafted.

That was as legal and defensible as taking legal deductions on your income tax.


And frankly, a main reason for the end of the draft is that this was becoming such a wide spread practice that it made the whole draft system politically unsupportable.

Indeed, the peacetime draft was really never necessary. It was popular with government because it allowed people to be paid a lot cheaper and treated far worse than was needed to attract the people needed for an all volunteer military. The all voluntary military resulted in both officer and enlisted personnel to be paid and treated much better.


Seattle Pioneer



Seattle Pioneer
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<<No. of Recommendations: 0
<<But you haven't revealed your own military service nigelwhalmsley. When did you serve in the military?

I never served.>>


Bone spurs, I'm guessing?

Nope. Had a lucky draft number at the right time. Some friends were not so lucky.>>


"So you used the legal means available to you to avoid being drafted."

No. I was never drafted.
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Bone spurs, I'm guessing?

Nope. Had a lucky draft number at the right time. Some friends were not so lucky.>>


"So you used the legal means available to you to avoid being drafted."

No. I was never drafted.
————————————————————————————
But you are dedicated to military withdrawal in non-specifically Turkey?

Oh we trust your motives
You are such a proud American with tremendous motives
Loser
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<<Bone spurs, I'm guessing?

Nope. Had a lucky draft number at the right time. Some friends were not so lucky.>>


"So you used the legal means available to you to avoid being drafted."

No. I was never drafted.>>



You had a legal reason why you weren't drafted, just as Hillary did since she was a woman, and Bill Clinton and I did. And lots of others.


Frankly, the draft was a nasty, dirty piece of political work. Bad enough in wartime and revolting when it was revived in peace time to keep down the cost of the military and control the choices of young people.


Here are pictures of Draft Resistance Seattle activities, although I haven't found my face in them.

http://depts.washington.edu/labpics/zenPhoto/antiwar/lonidie...


The original justification for draft resistance was to deprive the military of the manpower to fight the war, but that never happened. It eventually wound up opposing the draft as such politically, and that was successful, resulting in first the draft lottery and then the end of the draft with the volunteer military.



Seattle Pioneer
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“No. I was never drafted”
————————————————————————————
But you are dedicated to military withdrawal in non-specifically Turkey?

??? No. Where’d you get that?

Oh we trust your motives
You are such a proud American with tremendous motives
Loser


Do you imagine that I care at all what YOU think?

Doofus.
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Daagt i forgot Ford totally.

And you are so correct - he was way underrated.


JediG
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