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Sorry for the long rant. I will be retiring in the next couple of years and have been reading alot about how much savings DW and I will need during retirement according to some financial planners. Some CFPs say that we will need $1M to $2M to live well. We should have around $4-500K in total savings plus social security, and we will be debt free.

I have an employee whose parents are retired and their only income comes from SS and a retirement annuity, their total income over the last few years combined has been around $31,000. They also are debt free, go to Vegas 6-7 times a year, play golf 3-4 times a week, eat out a nice restaurants 2-3 times a week and are very generous to kids and grandkids at Christmas. Other than $100K in Treasury bonds, they have no savings.

So I'm wondering were the $1M-$2M comes into play from the CFP spin. Are they talking about retirees 30-40 years into the future from the present day? Just DW and my SS will be more than what my employee's parent's total income from last year, not counting distributions from our savings plans.

It seems to me that we can live pretty well on $45,000 to $50,000 a year which includes SS and no debt. Even if our actual living expenses after retirement double over the next 25 years it still won't exceed our income.

I know about the safe 4-5% withdrawal methods and maybe SS will not be around forever, I'm sure that I will not outlive it.

Thanks for letting me rant and thanks for any input you may give to show me that I have misranted.

99
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Thanks for letting me rant and thanks for any input you may give to show me that I have misranted.

99


If you have, I don't see it. Those CFPs would be horrified to know what I've retired on.

Hedge
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Forgive my cynical attitude of financial planners, but in my personal experience, our CFP was much more interested in feathering his nest rather than taking care of ours. We have since fired his *ss and are taking care of things ourselves.

We are debt free including no mortgage, car payments, motor home payments, no credit card debt & no medical bills. Our current income including DHs SS (i'm the spring chicken and don't qualify for a few more months) is $4800/mo. Our biggest expense is our "Escrow" account. We take all yearly bills, add then up and divide by 12. Currently we are putting into escrow $1125/mo. My BC-BS is $314 & my DH is taken care of by the VA. Due to his disability, all meds & procedures for him are free.

We travel in our motor home 3-4 mo each summer, live in Florida in a gated golf community. We are just now turning 62 and have been retired for 10+ years.

The best financial planner IMHO is the one who has gotten you this far and cares more about your financial future than anyone else. IOW, look in the mirror and do what is right for you.
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Being lucky enough (and this is not false modesty) to have a good
sized portfolio. Over the years i have discussed professional help
in handling it. Here is a general wrapup of what they wanted to to
FOR ME. Stongly urged that I give bank permission to buy and sell
for me. There is not a finance man alive that I would give that to.
Since they live on commission, guess how much attention my portfolio
would get in trading to keep things under control. Many of them would
just charge a small percentage of total value of portfolio. I looked
into this for kicks. I average about 4 1/12 % income. There small
share of total value would be between 20 to 30% of my annual income.
Every so often I balance holdings between bonds and stocks. With each
advisor I was shown a pretty color coded chart explaing why i should
redo portfolio right now.

I don't resent those that want me to buy their program. Hell i under
stand they are still selling the brookland bridge. i do resent a large
successful well known bank, building a huge ego trip building and at the
same time claiming that their financial advice department is a different
entinty that they have nothing to do with.

My two cents worth is to find a broker that admits he sells and buys
for his income, but is old fashioned enough to take pride in what he
does, and doesn't do. Haggle with him on each commission, you would be
surprised at how flexible they really are. Pick your own stocks. You
might be surprised at how much you know.

This way for a reasonable cost you can get all your stuff looked after,
and a nice year end statement that you can send direct to your tax man.
He can't charge you much cause he doesn't do anything except hand to
the office people with instructions to fit it in with all those damn
forms and mail back to customer.

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99,

As you have surmised, no single portfolio value or asset allocation is right for everyone. Understanding your expenses is the first step in deciding how much you will need. For some, $1 or 2 million may not be sufficient, for others, far less is adequate. If you want to vie for best of class each year at Pebble Beach, that burns money at a high rate. If you are happy to live a quiet life in a low cost area -- low cost housing with moderate climate, your burn rate can be quiet low. I think most CFPs' writings are aimed at clients with higher net worth who have become accustomed to a higher burn rate. After all, that's where their income is generated. Simply ignore them.

db
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Everyone's situation is different, and it's amazing how comfortable life can be when you have no debt! Whether you have a pension and health insurance also is a big factor in how much you need to accumulate.

Bobcatkitty gave the best advice in saying to create your own "escrow account" and make monthly deposits to cover the larger recurring expenses like taxes, insurance, boat slip rental.

Our experience has been that we continued to spend about the same in retirement as when we were actively working. Occasionally we'd dip into the savings pot and fly off to Ireland.

You sound like you have a pretty solid idea of your cash flow. Just be sure to factor extra for future medical costs (they seem to increase with age).
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Bobcatkitty gave the best advice in saying to create your own "escrow account" and make monthly deposits to cover the larger recurring expenses like taxes, insurance, boat slip rental.




LOL!
Excuse me for laughing, but "boat slip rental" just doesn't seem like one of the necessities of life.
I just find that terribly funny.
Could almost be a line for a stand-up comic. ;o)

AM
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Laugh all you want Angel May, but when others are cashing in investments to pay for big expenses, we don't have to....and isn't it all about what yearly expenses you have?

So, for the sake of this thread, I'll list what our escrow account consists of:

Vehicle insurance: 2 cars & motor home $1529.00/yr
House insurance: 770.00/yr
Xmas: this includes gifts for 3 grandkids
a 1 week trip to Nebraska in Dec. 1500.00/yr
Golf membership for DH 1875.00/yr
House taxes 1861.00/yr
Summer travel 2400.00/yr
Vehicle repair (based on last year) 850.00/yr
Exterminator (live in Fla.) 275.00/yr
Medical Deductible 1000.00/yr
CPA who does taxes 295.00/yr
Monthly support for my Mother 3000.00/yr


Now, some may think..golf membership? yearly boat slip rental? It all just depends on what your lifestyle is. But this escrow system works for us. When that yearly bill rolls in, I know I have the money to cover it. The escrow amount, just like with a mortgage company is adjusted each Jan. 1 to reflect the actual expenses during the year.

Additonally another advantage to doing it this way is that our monthly expenses stay relatively static throughout the year.
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Excuse me for laughing, but "boat slip rental" just doesn't seem like one of the necessities of life.

How about gym dues? How about weekly movies and a meal? How about tickets to a favorite sport team? How about a yearly getaway to some unusual spot? How about a subscription to WSJ? How about weekly golf fees. Tennis? Bowling? How about.... My point is that boating might be the focus of some folks life (not mine, by the way), so how could anyone easily say that it isn't a necessity for someone else.
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Because I don't like to draw anymore than we need any sooner than we need it, I created an Excel cash flow spreadsheet in which the left hand column list monthly income and expenses by date. The second column shows income amounts, third expense amounts. This spreadsheet covers 2 months, so I can see the effect of an unuaul expense propagated into the next month. As we go along through the month, I update the spreadsheet. I find it very helpful.

db
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My point is that boating might be the focus of some folks life (not mine, by the way), so how could anyone easily say that it isn't a necessity for someone else.

Yeah, it seemed funny to me too, for about 3 seconds. I'll bet the several thousand I have spent on ham radios, and the couple more I'll use to put up a tower would be gross extravagances to the boat crowd. Different strokes... :o)

Hedge
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I'll bet the several thousand I have spent on ham radios, and the couple more I'll use to put up a tower would be gross extravagances to the boat crowd

Doesn't sound extravagant to me. I think everyone needs a tower. Especially if you are trying to work 3Y0X or YX0A. It all depends on how you want to spend your retirement. Do you want to be on the bottom of the pile or on top?

Regards,

ImAGolfer (retired '03)

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Doesn't sound extravagant to me. I think everyone needs a tower. Especially if you are trying to work 3Y0X or YX0A.

Hiya Golfer,

Well, I got the 3Y0X on 3 bands, but I was pretty distraught to hear both Dubai and Kuwati at 20 over the other evening and still NOT get through the pileup on 20. I guess a 30L-1 and a dipole just doesn't get it, even if the other guy is 20 over.

73,

Hedge
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Well, I got the 3Y0X on 3 bands, but I was pretty distraught to hear both Dubai and Kuwati at 20 over the other evening and still NOT get through the pileup on 20. I guess a 30L-1 and a dipole just doesn't get it, even if the other guy is 20 over.

Hi Hedge. I got him on 15 and 12 CW and consider myself very lucky to have worked them with 80 watts and a dipole. I'm considering a AL-811H as a retirement gift to myself. It should help in working the next rare one that comes along.

73 es DX,

ImAGolfer

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My point is that boating might be the focus of some folks life (not mine, by the way), so how could anyone easily say that it isn't a necessity for someone else.





Because it really ISN'T a necessity. Every person on the planet can survive without a boat slip or a boat to put in it. I didn't mean to make fun of anyone -- I just found it humorous, that's all.

I thought the subject at hand was that of putting away money to cover the really necessary expenses -- not the necessary ones PLUS the "I wants" as well.

Sorry I misunderstood.

AM
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I thought the subject at hand was that of putting away money to cover the really necessary expenses -- not the necessary ones PLUS the "I wants" as well.

Sorry I misunderstood.


I think you still misunderstand. Ham radio is an absolute necessity, for me, just as boat slip would be an absolute necessity for someone else. Subsistence alone isn't enough to call a life.

Hedge
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I think you still misunderstand. Ham radio is an absolute necessity, for me, just as boat slip would be an absolute necessity for someone else. Subsistence alone isn't enough to call a life.

Hedge



No, it isn't.
And I can prove it to you.
This is the scenario:
You can only pay for two things.
You put into the hat all the things you think are absolutely necessary.
Food
Shelter
Ham Radio
Health Insurance
Clothing

Then you draw from the hat.
You draw Ham Radio and Clothing.

Next, you find yourself on the street because you have no home and no food and no way to pay for any health care in the event you get sick. The loss of the home means loss of the ham radio, too, since you would have no place to put it any longer.

Necessity REALLY means necessity. Not "I REALLY REALLY want this in order to live a happy life." Necessity means "I REALLY REALLY have to have this in order to sustain life AT ALL."

See the difference?

So a ham radio is not a necessity. Not even for you.
But its importance is very very high for you once all the REAL necessities are taken care of.

Please note that I'm not arguing against you having a ham radio or another person having a boat. I think having things that make you happy is very important to quality of life. But first you must sustain that life -- and those things that sustain life are the true necessities and the first and foremost things you should ever take care of.

Anyway, didn't mean to start a big hoo-ha. I just found a boat slip rather humorous in a list of real necessities of life. Sorry if humor is not really wanted here. I'll try to watch it in future. ;o)

AM
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I think having things that make you happy is very important to quality of life. But first you must sustain that life

I've not followed this thread, but while clearing the "unread" this caught my eye. It reminds me of a management class many years ago in which we played the "NASA Game." It was an exercise in the process of consensus, and involved about six players.

You are stranded on the dark side of the Moon and must reach the mother ship. You have about two dozen items available to you, including air, food, water, matches, an inflatable raft, and others I can't recall.

The premise is "If you can take only one thing, what is it?" Now two, then three, etc. You rank the items in order of critcal importance. The exercise begins with each person creating his own list.

On the first ballot there were five people with air first and one, I mention no names and make no charges, with food first. On reflection we quickly reached consensus on air and water, but they never did convice me-I-mean-that-person that the raft was more useful than food.

Phil
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What worries me is the things that come out of left field when you least expect them. A hurricane, brush fires, tornadoes, a car wreck, bird flu, 9/11.

We bought our home about 8 years ago, and were really concerned that the taxes were over $8,000/year. Well, those taxes have gone up almost $1,000/year, and we now pay nearly $13,000/year. That's a lot faster than the inflation that supposedly occurred during those years. Screwed up our planning a bit. New homes here have taxes between $20k and $30k/year.

No matter how you plan, it's best to have as big a cushion as you can for as long as you can. Forget about that idea of dying broke.

Most people in our generation have lived a lot more frugally than our kids do. I don't know how they're ever going to retire.

Trini
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AngelMay: <...I just found a boat slip rather humorous in a list of real necessities of life...>

Spoken like someone who's never lost a boat by leaving it at a mooring instead of in a slip.

Used to moor my little cruising sloop in the open anchorage of my yacht club.
One day I drove down to the club to take a visiting friend sailing and found neither mooring bouy nor boat! Took lots of phone calls to discover that my boat was found adrift in the lower Hudson River and towed into the 79th Street Boat Basin by Malcolm Forbes' yacht Highlander. His captain gratiously turned it back over to me!
http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/online.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=310

I immediately got a slip at the club and always knew where my vessel was.
"Happiness is knowing where your boat is!"

Regards,

Grumpy
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And there ARE people who live on the boat, keep car parked nearby and go to work every day, take boat out after work....not a bad life. In that case it is slip rent instead of regular rent, and falls under the same degree of necessity...

Best wishes, Chris
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And there ARE people who live on the boat, keep car parked nearby and go to work every day, take boat out after work....not a bad life.

Maybe the IRS brings out the strange in people, [I heard that!] but I had one coworker who lived on a boat and one who lived in a railroad business car. Both shared the same opinion of the perfect vacation spot: a bathroom you could throw a party in.

Phil
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"I thought the subject at hand was that of putting away money to cover the really necessary expenses -- not the necessary ones PLUS the "I wants" as well."

AM,
The beauty of a personal escrow account is paying yourself a monthly amount equal to 1/12 of all your own household's big annual bills. No surprises, and there's always money there to pay whatever comes up next.

On my first after-college job, my mentor boss insisted (1) I set up payroll deductions to a credit union savings account ($5 biweekly then), and (2) that I set up a separate "escrow style" savings account into which I would make monthly payments to offset things like Christmas and car insurance.

Years later, spouse and I still follow that advice. It has never failed us, and we've even made car payments to ourselves until we could walk in and pay cash for our next new vehicle.

Yeah, that boat can be like having a kid in college. But I can't imagine why anyone would pay for cable TV when you can get it for free with an antenna. It's all relative to what each family enjoys most.

If your experience in retirement is like ours, you will find it a wonderful, freeing time of life, a time of giving back to your community in the areas you choose. Keep your health and enjoy.

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"Happiness is knowing where your boat is!"

http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/online.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=310

Hey Grumpy. Looks like you really knew how to kick back in the early 70's.

Regards,

ImAGolfer
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Imagine that, Grumpy. You were in and out or all my local ports on the North shore or Long Island. We take our boat into Northport and Huntington and Centerport and Port Washington and Port Jefferson.

However, we park it in the driveway, which means we use it pretty rarely.

Trini
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ImAGolfer: <...Hey Grumpy. Looks like you really knew how to kick back in the early 70's...>

Still do in the new Millenium:
http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/online.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=166

Golf on....

Grumpy
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Trini,

Unless you live on acreage, a boat sitting in your driveway is a blight on your neighborhood. Shame on you.

db
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iamdb writes,

Trini,

Unless you live on acreage, a boat sitting in your driveway is a blight on your neighborhood. Shame on you.


Wouldn't that depend on the neighborhood and community standards?

I understand that in parts of Appalachian homeowners even store used appliances on their front lawns.

intercst
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I understand that in parts of Appalachian homeowners even store used appliances on their front lawns.

It's called yard art. Goes well with old tires on the roofs of mobile homes, plus astroturf on the front porch, 10 or more extra cars (without tires) parked along side and out back, plus a few plastic birds at the end of the driveway. Different strokes for different folks.
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Trini,

Unless you live on acreage, a boat sitting in your driveway is a blight on your neighborhood. Shame on you.

db


My boat's in the drive from April until October and has been for the past five years. No one's complained yet and this is in a neighborhood where houses are in the up-to-a-million-dollar range.

Of course, where I live are many retired people and some of them wander over when I'm cleaning the boat and chat so it's also a conversation piece. Some, who have owned boats in the past, offer advice and suggestions.

I have a larger boat, a 20-ft cuddy with a honking great 175 hp motor on it and, like all boats, looks larger out of the water. So it's not like I have a small unobtrusive aluminum skiff. Nonetheless, no one's said a negative word about it being here.

I should also point out that, since I do own a marine services company, the boat has – in large letters – BRIGANTINE MARINE GROUP on both sides. No one has said anything about that either.

Maybe a boat in the drive also says you handled your retirement financing sufficient to have a boat (it's all paid for).

MichaelR


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Well, we have 4.55 acres, although half or more is sort of underwater in the marsh. The boat's not in the driveway - it's in the back field, invisible when you drive in.

But it's a pretty boat, and I don't mind if people see it. We live near the water, and lots of people here have boats. Almost without exception, they're all in driveways. Slips and moorings are horendously expensive and all have waiting lists.

Keeping a boat on dry land and covered makes it last longer. We've had this boat since 1984, and it looks like new. It's a 20 foot Four Winns cuddy like MichaelR's with a Mercruiser 470 IO engine. bought it for cash when it was 2 years old, and DH does all it's maintenance.

We have 3 boats, actually. The one I described, an aluminum rowboat that we never use and DH refuses to sell, and an aluminum 17 foot Grumman canoe that we can take out in the marsh from our own little dock. The canoe is my favorite, and paddling out there and seeing the birds and other wildlife is my idea of heaven. Great blue heron, egrets, swans, geese, lots of other waterfowl, and zillions of nesting birds, including osprey.

Trini

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Trini209: <...We take our boat into Northport and Huntington and Centerport and Port Washington and Port Jefferson...>

Used to like spending several days in my favorite anchorage: Mount Misery Cove, just at he mouth of Port Jefferson Harbor.

You must know it; it is beautifully protected by dunes.

Sorry we never ran into each other.

Grumpy
Trini fan
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The canoe is my favorite, and paddling out there and seeing the birds and other wildlife is my idea of heaven. Great blue heron, egrets, swans, geese, lots of other waterfowl, and zillions of nesting birds, including osprey.

Trini


My slice of heaven is the Inside Passage between Vancouver Island and the Mainland. Out on the saltchuck I see eagles, seals, porpoises, murrelets, cormorants, hundreds of seagulls, and killer whales.

While I troll a lot, often I drift fish – called 'mooching' – and, although not as quiet as your pond, it is peaceful and reflective. Often it's hard to end the day.

Sometimes when it storms I power back slowly so I don't crash into the waves yet even then I enjoy. The sea is never the same twice.

My boat is a Bayliner Trophy and the first time I saw one when I came to the PNW I said I would have one and now I have. It's a sturdy 20-footer designed for fishing and I have taken it out in lumpy seas where the crests of some rollers towered above the boat. Elly said, once, “I think I'd feel safer if you didn't keep on saying 'WHEEEEEE'.”

MichaelR


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The canoe is my favorite, and paddling out there and seeing the birds and other wildlife is my idea of heaven. Great blue heron, egrets, swans, geese, lots of other waterfowl, and zillions of nesting birds, including osprey.

Trini



That DOES sound heavenly.

AM
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My slice of heaven is the Inside Passage between Vancouver Island and the Mainland. Out on the saltchuck I see eagles, seals, porpoises, murrelets, cormorants, hundreds of seagulls, and killer whales.

While I troll a lot, often I drift fish – called 'mooching' – and, although not as quiet as your pond, it is peaceful and reflective. Often it's hard to end the day.




That sounds heavenly, too.

AM

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>>I just found a boat slip rather humorous in a list of real necessities of life. Sorry if 
humor is not really wanted here. I'll try to watch it in future.<<
-
Hi, Angel May
I, for one, do want your humor.
When I saw "boat slip rental", I reacted the same as you.
And when I saw your post, I simply had to give it a rec.
And I agree with most of what you posted later, except the apologetic tone.
-
As for boats, more power to the boaters.
Ham radio?  Since long-distance telephony has become easy and cheap, why bother?
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Ham radio? Since long-distance telephony has become easy and cheap, why bother?




+++
+++



I find it hard to believe that some one who actually lives in HI would rely solely on commercial comm!

;-)

sunray
a man who lives in FL
{the home of 4 hurricanes last year}
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Ham radio? Since long-distance telephony has become easy and cheap, why bother?

Ask the people who fight forest fires. Ask the people who responded to Katrina (police, fire, red cross, anyone). Ask anyone involved in a major disaster. Cell phones are just fine until they don't work. Police radios are great, until they don't work due to power outages or whatever.

The Amateur Radio community is made up of a lot of people who are interested in volunteering to help their communities. They have training courses and certifications just like any other voluntary discipline. In many disasters, the hams are the communication suppliers of last resort.

Plus, it's just fun. I recently spent about an hour talking to a guy in Aasiaat, Greenland about his country and city; the whales, dolphins, etc. A couple of decades ago, I listened to the King of Jordan talking to some guys, here in the states. I listened in on the guys in the space station talking to an elementary school class in New Jersey. How else could I get the opportunity to do these things?

Hedge
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Hi, Hedge
That is a very good answer to my question.
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