No. of Recommendations: 48
I am continually frustrated by the attacks and diversions caused by those who restrict retirement and investment discussions to a very limited range. jtmitch and phantomdiver recently provided an excellent overview:

From jtmitch 73140 on 8-7-02 (and phantomdiver 72986 on 8-6-02):
phantomdiver: The recent hostility on this board is one reason I posted about one of my post-retirement plans. I had hoped that it would start a nice civil thread about things other people want to do when they have more free time. However, the thread quickly degenerated into a tirade on illegal immigration and other stuff.

jtmitch: Amen, phantomdiver; that seems to be the pattern. Poster A asks a question or relates an experience. Posters B and C answer the question or comment on the experience. Somewhere around Poster D or E, a tangent develops - more often than not with a political/philosophical bent. The remainder of the thread generally focuses on the tangential topic. Maybe one or two other posts relate to the original topic, but the thread is basically "OT" once the tangent begins.

jtmitch (waiting to see how someone will turn this post into a political debate or perhaps a religious debate since I opened with "amen".)

Just now hocus pointed out some of the difficulties in implementing the Retire Early Safe Withdrawal Rate study. It seems as if this immediately caused a series of posts similar to a drive by shooting. There are two points that I wish to make relative to that:

1) The term Mastermind refers to a personality type. It is not a measure of achievement. It is not a measure of ability. It is not a measure of aptitude. It is not a measure of understanding. It is not a measure of comprehension. It is only a personality type. A Mastermind can be a complete idiot. He can be an extremely stubborn idiot.

The term Mastermind was first mentioned from an article posted a couple of months ago. That particular article placed the Mastermind personality type in a favorable light. I am sure that many who claim to be Masterminds are not. They just want an ego boost. I recommend that readers go to the www.retireearlyhomepage.com website and browse around for a while. (That is always a good idea.) Then look into the articles on the Retire Early personality profiles. intercst has also included a link so that you can find out your own personality type. But always understand that every personality type has both good and bad features.

2) My second point is that too many diversions are around semantic arguments. I have noticed that those who claim that hocus misuses the definition of “Safe Withdrawal Rates” do, themselves, use a variety of inconsistent definitions. I have also noticed that hocus's usage of the term “Safe Withdrawal Rate” is accurate and correct in terms of several authors that he quotes.

One might suppose that the Retire Early Safe Withdrawal Rate study provides a single definition usable for this board. In fact, it does not. The study makes such a definition possible. But if the term were precisely and accurately defined in such a manner, its shortcomings would be obvious. The mechanical structure of investing that makes the Retire Early study so very valuable also limits its applicability. That should be an advantage. It should cause people to think and to extend the research rather than to apply it in a mindless, mechanical manner.

Consider this: The Retire Early study never claims to estimate anything outside the historical record. But it does claim that it incorporates the historical record. If we wanted to be very precise and accurate, that claim is blatantly false. It only incorporates the historical record when all investment transactions occur on the New Years Eve/New Years Day transition. None occur on January 15th or May 3rd or any other particular day of the year. We also know that Professor Shiller has provided S&P 500 data for each month of the year so that we do have a larger historical record available than has been used. Even internal to the Retire Early study, we see a sensitivity study (i.e., an excursion to answer some “what if” type questions) involving the 1929 meltdown.

Arguments based strictly on semantics and definitions provide no value unless they are internally consistent and restrict themselves very carefully to those definitions. That is extremely difficult to do. My example shows that even a seemingly solid basis for a definition leaves very much to be desired...if it is pushed to its limits.

My final comment is that I like the recent posts about real estate. FoolMeOnce has posted several articles of tremendous practical value. If I had had those articles thirty years ago...back when I bought an apartment building, I could well have ended up as a real estate tycoon instead of a stock market investor. Such posts should be encouraged. I think that the reception that CatherineCoy received, at least initially, was outrageous. She has many good insights. I think that telegraph also has made some really good points about what can go wrong with residential real estate. His points may be the most valuable.

Have fun,

John R.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 10
Excellent post! And, I agree.

I first discovered this board only a couple of months ago; an excellent post by justpatrick responding to a newbie that made the "Best Of" list helped me find it. Initially, it seemed to me to be a great place to spend my limited time at TMF (how could I have missed it earlier?). Though I've only posted to this board once, I have contributed recs where I thought they were appropriate.

When I first started to read this board, there was some "back and forth" about SWR (an acronym which took me a little while to figure out). I quickly realized that there was an on-going debate and some history between someone named intercst and someone named hocus. Both seemed to present thoughtful information, albeit from differing viewpoints (always good, IMNSHO). I then noticed that the tone of the discussion shifted to one which was quite combative, with perhaps an endgame intending to silence the less popular opinion. My fears were confirmed when Ms. Coy joined the board and was quickly attacked for expressing her ideas.

While I see nothing wrong in taking sides in a debate, I find the goal of silencing dissenting voices appalling. Surely there is more than one way to FI and RE!

I then noticed that there were a lot of OT political posts. Since I usually spend time on the Political Asylum board, I'm not offended by these threads; I've actually been more amused. After all, TMF has the PA for such discussions, but I can understand why a regular contributor here might feel more comfortable expressing his/her views about (e.g.) our President here than in the less forgiving environment of the PA (or even NADA;-).

In summary, I find this board to be of less value than I did when I first "discovered" it. I was going to share my reflections on 2+ years of RE, but I think I'll wait and see if this board is just in a temporary funk (because it's an election year;-)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
RE: "I was going to share my reflections on 2+ years of RE, but I think I'll wait and see if this board is just in a temporary funk (because it's an election year;-)"

I'm very interested in hearing your reflections. I find the OT posts fun (sometimes) but the real reason I come (and I'm sure most others also) is for the FIRE discussions and advice. I've learned a lot here and hope to continue learning. So please share.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 10
>> I think that telegraph also has made some really good points about what can go wrong with residential real estate. His points may be the most valuable. <<

Maybe. But his baiting and insulting of anyone and anything religious, whether or not they try to "export" their faith to others, has caused me to miss those points.

#29
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 6
WOW!

Just like you said, three posts on topic and then the tangent. Ok from here on out we attack Telegraph, right?

nmckay
learning every day
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
FoolMeOnce has posted several articles of tremendous practical value.

Like John R, if I had known when I first came to southern CA the logistics of investing in real estate that FMO espouses, I may've parlayed my small grubstake (a bit of money and an enthusiasm for real estate) into something far more than what I have. Be that as it may, I think the appeal of non-stock investments--and I share John R's frustration at the short shrift they get here as an aid to early retirement--is that one can start from practically nothing.

FMO, just today, a community college course catalog arrived. One of the courses offered is "Dr. Marshall E. Reddick, Director of Real Estate Continuing Education at CSULA, started with an investment of only $4,000 with his first CA property, and has leveraged this into millions of dollars in real estate. He is a well-known educator, author and very successful investor. Today he buys for fun. Reddick is available for free mentoring and to answer your questions. Course tuition--$50."

Serendipitous, no? :-)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
CC: FMO, just today, a community college course catalog arrived. One of the courses offered is "Dr. Marshall E. Reddick, Director of Real Estate Continuing Education at CSULA, started with an investment of only $4,000 with his first CA property, and has leveraged this into millions of dollars in real estate. He is a well-known educator, author and very successful investor. Today he buys for fun. Reddick is available for free mentoring and to answer your questions. Course tuition--$50."

Ah, but you never were told, or weren't curious about his NET WORTH?

Lots of people can borrow $500,000 on a house, or even one million on a house, and leverage it into 'millions' in real estate. The question is, what is their net worth? Having lots of 'assets' and lots of 'liabilities' does not equate to 'wealthly'. Just 'in debt'.

Same with Kiyosaki.....talks big...but when people try to determine his net worth and real estate holdings, they all seem to be vapor.....doesn't 'own' anything it seems....

CSULA? not familiar with that one, either.

And anyone can write a book and be an author. Telegraph is an author...best seller..in its field.... does that mean anything? no. And today I write for fun, and buy things for fun...so????

And what is he a 'doctor' in? Where did he get his degree? In what field....?? (oh by the way, Telegraph is a 'doctor' and also is a ordained minister.....so much for 'credentials'.).

Sorry to be so brutal, but these 'real estate' seminar ads are usually 99% fluff. And no one really asks any tough questions.

Whoopy doo...I started with less than $4000, and leveraged it into well over a million......took 30 years, but hey, they didn't tell you how long it took him, did they?

Did you do any research on him before getting all excited about it?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
but these 'real estate' seminar ads are usually 99% fluff. And no one really asks any tough questions.

Telegraph, I assure you I shall do my due diligence before I plunk down even fifty bucks but, even if I didn't, I betcha I would learn something from this guy. Yes, I shall ask the tough questions, which I have learned how to do from you, the Master of Tough Questions. :-)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
http://www.realestateforeclosures.com/About_Us/about_us.htm

Telegraph, what do you think? Should I get a private dick to check the guy out before I spend fifty bucks? What if I go to the class and I sit next to a real cute guy who invites me out for coffee afterwards and it turns out he's got a bulging ... portfolio of stocks? That would be fifty bucks well spent, no?

See, I believe in serendipity.


Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
CatherineCoy asks,

http://www.realestateforeclosures.com/About_Us/about_us.htm

Telegraph, what do you think? Should I get a private dick to check the guy out before I spend fifty bucks? What if I go to the class and I sit next to a real cute guy who invites me out for coffee afterwards and it turns out he's got a bulging ... portfolio of stocks? That would be fifty bucks well spent, no?


If he had a bulging portfolio of stocks, he wouldn't need to be adding the burden of real estate investments to his financial life.

Could be the guy is just a poser. <grin>

intercst
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 16
Boys and Girls,

None of these discussions are restricted. You can write practically whatever you want and hold ANY opinion about FIRE, politics, etc. There will always be people that agree with you and people that won't.

I have probably angered more people on this board than anyone with my colorful anti-American rants. It's all good clean fun. I can't help myself if hocus, religious conservatives and feminists all walk around with "kick me" signs on their backs <grin>.

This board is mainly about getting to FIRE and staying there via LTBH equity investing. Many of us have been very successful, long-term FIREs with this strategy and we are interested in fine-tuning this strategy. We are NOT interested in market timing, real estate, gold, barbie dolls etc.

I am VERY comfortable with intercst's study on SWRs. It works for me and the longer this bear market goes on, the better I like it. It's a training session for me because I KNOW that at age 45, I'll be seeing a lot of bear markets before I die.

Lastly, if intercst's SWR strategy is going to fail, I'd rather see it fail big-time NOW vs in 20 or 30 years. IMHO, this bear market is a blessing in disguise. I'm pretty sure intercst is on my same wavelength.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Ah, but you never were told, or weren't curious about his NET WORTH?
...The question is, what is their net worth? Having lots of 'assets' and lots of 'liabilities' does not equate to 'wealthly'. Just 'in debt'.

Same with Kiyosaki.....talks big...but when people try to determine his net worth and real estate holdings, they all seem to be vapor.....doesn't 'own' anything it seems....
...
And anyone can write a book and be an author. Telegraph is an author...best seller..in its field.... does that mean anything? no. And today I write for fun, and buy things for fun...so????
...
Whoopy doo...I started with less than $4000, and leveraged it into well over a million......took 30 years, but hey, they didn't tell you how long it took him, did they?


Okay, so I may be dense but what's wrong with writing a book about a particular strategy that you yourself have not performed to its absolute end? I think it happens every day, and I would imagine the psychology genre is in tight competition with the investing genre when it comes to the quantity of such authors.

I don't see how one's financial net worth is the determining factor in whether they've got a good idea.

True, anyone can write a book and be an author. Just as some people are inventors and others are engineers and others are salespeople, some have good ideas and others have the wherewithall to put them into practice. I'm reminded of the adage, "those that can, do and those that cannot, teach." Teachers are not incompetent, they merely have a different set of skills than the doers.

BTW, if it took him 30 years to accomplish this feat, and he started in his twenties with a mere $4000, he would still be in the FIRE category. Wouldn't he?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
If he had a bulging portfolio of stocks, he wouldn't need to be adding the burden of real estate investments to his financial life.

Or he could be diversifying to protect himself from the apparent downside of stocks.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
We are NOT interested in market timing, real estate, gold, barbie dolls etc.

There's that royal "we" again. :-)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 8
Galeno: This board is mainly about getting to FIRE and staying there via LTBH equity investing. Many of us have been very successful, long-term FIREs with this strategy and we are interested in fine-tuning this strategy. We are NOT interested in market timing, real estate, ...

Personally, I'm interested in learning about all sorts of things that might make me money, albeit in a legal manner which discards at least one area of your expertise. <grin>

InParadise,
who thinks Galeno has been smoking a bit too much if he thinks he speaks for the whole board.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
We must be here for the wrong reasons :)

We want to be FIRE. We have spent hours and days and weeks examining how we would deal with the change in lifestyle it would bring, but we want to do it.

We're not in the 'golden' position some here are. We started late, and maybe weren't that 'smart'. We're envious of those that made it, make it work, and keep it working.

Despite the name of the board, we relish any conversation that goes OT. Sometimes we get torqued, sometimes we laugh. And sometimes we learn something, either about investing for FIRE, dealing with FIRE, or just other views.

We envy those that made it, and we envy the sacrifice many have made to get there. We're as committed as any one. Hopefully, from this board and others, and with luck, we'll make it. If not, it's been a fun ride, and hey, we'll be able to say we took OUR ride.

Mike

PS: Is there a way to just automatically recommend any post CatherineCoy makes? intercst, despite the fact that no way could we see eye to eye on most things, also gets our rec's. A well-thoughtout counterpoint deserves that.


Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I think CSULA stands for Cal State University at Los Angeles. As I recall, Regan renamed the state colleges state universities in a tiff with the regents of the University of California system. He was particularly insensed by Cal Berkeley. His thinking: With so with many Cal states made into Cal universities, what's so special about universities, anyway? In the scheme of things, the state university system is second tier behind the University of California, but above the communitiy colleges. I don't think the state universities confire doctorates, except possibly in education, and they are not primary research sources.

Actuall a number of states have such an arrangement, U Ohio and Ohio State, U Mich and Mich State, U Penn and Penn State, come to mind, where the state university (college) has lower academic standing than the univeristy of state, and is aimed a different student body.

I believe the Cal state universities are aimed at students in something like the 16 to 40 percentiles, whereas the University of Cal system is aimed at the top 15%.

But I may be wrong about all of the above.

db
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
iamdb writes,

I think CSULA stands for Cal State University at Los Angeles. As I recall, Regan renamed the state colleges state universities in a tiff with the regents of the University of California system. He was particularly insensed by Cal Berkeley. His thinking: With so with many Cal states made into Cal universities, what's so special about universities, anyway? In the scheme of things, the state university system is second tier behind the University of California, but above the communitiy colleges. I don't think the state universities confire doctorates, except possibly in education, and they are not primary research sources.

Actuall a number of states have such an arrangement, U Ohio and Ohio State, U Mich and Mich State, U Penn and Penn State, come to mind, where the state university (college) has lower academic standing than the univeristy of state, and is aimed a different student body.

I believe the Cal state universities are aimed at students in something like the 16 to 40 percentiles, whereas the University of Cal system is aimed at the top 15%.

But I may be wrong about all of the above.


I don't know about "the top 15%", it must be more selective than that. I seem to remember stories about the top California universities like Berkeley, UCLA, and UC SanDiego turning away kids with 1350 on the SAT.

intercst
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
Is there a way to just automatically recommend any post CatherineCoy makes?

Well, this post made MY day, that's for sure!!!

Mike, your comments about starting late strike a chord with me because I too started late in building the means to retire at all, let alone early. I haven't yet graduated to thinking about retiring early but, based on what I've read here, I'm now confident that I could if I committed myself to that goal. That empowerment alone is worth the thirty bucks to TMF. But contrary to what seems to be the preferred route to FIRE on this board, I'm doing it with real estate. Now is the time for deliberative action, and FMO and GWM have contributed mightily to my confidence.

Safe withdrawal rate means nothing to aspiring FIREs who don't have enough to withdraw against, and the current market isn't helping. What about them? Perhaps judicious purchases of real estate could help them (us) catch up. That's why I think that a balanced discussion of the pros and cons of real estate investing is important to those Fools who can't--simply because there's not enough time--amass enough in equities to allow SWR, or any other equities strategy, to work for them.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
CathrineCoy wrote:
There's that royal "we" again. :-)

Allow me to define the "royal we". Royal WE: all equity based FIRE'ds who have reached REAL FIRE before age 50 and have 5 or more years of FIRE under their belts.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
In the scheme of things, the state university system is second tier behind the University of California, but above the community colleges.

It's much tougher to get into UCLA (where my son attends) than UC. All you need to get into UC is money.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I meant USC.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Telegraph is an author...best seller..in its field....

Well, are you a best selling author? If so, will you tell us what field?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
CC: now it's your turn to think...from your post

About Marshall E. Reddick, Ph.D.

Dr. Marshall E. Reddick is Professor of Business and Economics at California State University, Los Angeles, and has been responsible for Real Estate Continuing Education since 1978.


OK, he's been teaching there since 1978...that is 24 years...still working away......and working hard!!!!

Dr. Reddick conducts 160 real estate seminars every year for nearly all the universities and community colleges in Southern California.

Well, according to my calculation, that is nearlyl one just about every business day of the year, year after year...and spread out over all of the universities and community colleges in Southern California. Just how much driving will that take every day????? 160 seminars a year???? take out weekends, vacations, holidays, and that gives you not too many to do your adminstrative work as 'head' of the real estate Continuing Education dept.....such as student registration, classes, course material, etc. I assume he teaches other classes as well? GRades assignments, etc? busy busy beaver


He began buying foreclosure homes in 1975. Starting with no money or real estate knowledge, he bought his first home in Lake Arrowhead. With that property he leveraged himself into California in the early 80s, then Colorado in the late 80s. In the early 90s, he entered Phoenix, Texas, Atlanta, Las Vegas, and recently North Carolina, Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Virginia Beach.

Well, we saw before he had $4000.....now he had nothing.....hmmmm?????

Beside from teaching nearly every day of the year, he also has time to manage houses in a half dozen states?????? and has time to buy them? investigate them? research the areas? decide what is 'good value'?

Most of the properties he has purchased have doubled in value in four to six years because of his ability to select excellent areas at the right time. His background in economics has helped him select the best timing--the key to successful real estate investing today.

*** most of the stock people bought in the 1990s doubled in 4 years (20% growth rate)..... grin.....

If that was the case, by now he would likely be a billionaire, sharing golf with BIll Gates and WArren Buffett, no? a 20% return on investment for 24 years.....wow...intercst, help....how rich is this guy??? or is it value of the houses doubled, but nothing was said about his net worth????? oh???????

I suspect buying foreclosures also get you cases of major repairs before you can rehab and sell a house...most folks who can't make the mortgage payment dont' worry about fixing things...or trash things onthe way out.... if you can get them out!....


Today, he owns over 100 homes, condos and townhomes in the hottest real estate markets in the United States.

So, with an average of, say, $150,000 per home, that puts his real estate holdings at $15 million or more? So he needs to work teaching 160 seminars a year, and managing 100 properties a year, and still buying more and more???

What about the houses he owns in the coldest markets?????? are they eating him alive??? oh, I'm nasty.... or are we to believe his success rate is 100%???? no dogs???

In his materials he shares the successful strategies he has used to be successful in real estate. You can purchase the same type of properties he is purchasing in the same areas and use the same property management at half the regular price.

Now why would he want to offer you management services at a discount????? so he makes more money????? on the investments you are putting up the cash and taking the risk on????? sounds good for him, doesn't it?

His dream is to make purchasing foreclosures anywhere in the nation as simple as picking up the phone. Through the referral network he has created, buying foreclosures properties is just that easy and safe.

If that was the case, all of his 'successes' would be gobbling up every foreclosure there was,right?? No risk? Then why the heck isn't he buying them all himself???? If his system is so foolproof, surely he could turn his $15 million into $15 billion in a few years.....why does he need people to mentor???

If buying a foreclosure were that easy, then there wouldn't be an incentive for banks to sell at a discount, would there? there would be lines of buyers waiting...so the price could rise.

Don't miss out on this exceptional opportunity of purchasing foreclosed real estate with low down, low prices, easy qualifying and in great locations.

I suppose if you are interested in buying his materials about foreclosure (and I bet the rest of the manuals will set you back some bucks, too) and using his 'management services' since he seems to be suggesting people buy anywhere and everywhere, and he'll provide the 'management services', it can't be too bad a deal for $50...cheap entertainment...

After all, if you 'miss out'....there will only be 159 other seminars in the next year to chose from!....





Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
CC: Well, are you a best selling author? If so, will you tell us what field?

T: Ah, see, if I narrow the field enough, just about anyone can be a 'best selling' author....if there is almost no competition, then if you write a book, and sell 100 copies, you are the 'best selling' author in that field. Or maybe sell 1000 or 10000..... who knows, the Beardstown Ladies sold a bundle before their 'mistake' was found....

Nope, it ain't Murder She Wrote stuff....

What else! Telegraph History....... print run 100 copies...all sold out......"Never Enough Capacity - The Story of the Telegraph 1837-1937"...not even copyrighted..... sold all privately to other telegraph collectors....lots of good reference material within....but not as good as Oslin's Book, THe STory of Telecommuncations, if you just want a nice read..... Mine is all technology for people who already understand more than the basic principles (advanced stuff).


Working on another one...... on the Atlantic Cable...but just had two other books released on same subject in past two years....hmmmm....

Now I might write one on "Learning to Play the Five Row Chromatic Accordion"...there are none for sale on Amazon.com or any other site I can find, other than one book written in German...so if I sell 100 copies, I'll be a best seller again!..... BTW, 99.9% of people in the US play the 'piano accordion'. The Chromatic has buttons on the right side instead of a keyboard, giving it much more capability...it also gives you the ability to make mistakes easier....put you can play stuff that a freaks out a piano accordion player since he has no hope of doing it himself.....

Then I'd have multiple best sellers!......

Oh, and I took a course at the local community college, for about $25, on learning to self publish your own book....and I did.......<grin>


ALso have 4 or 5 published magazine articles in the past year.....in a nationally distributed monthly magazine.....

nope...haven't sold a million copies yet, and not going to get 'rich' being an author.....well, you never know.....

But hey, I can tell people who ask me what I do....."I'm an author"....also a 'consultant' who works 10 or 20 hours a year (enough to earn some money to deduct all the computer goodies, making zero for tax purposes)...... but not too much..after all, it is 'work'....

You'll find when you RE early, people continue to ask, as the first question at a social event "Well, what do you do?" (for a living)...they don't comprehend the words "I don't work for anybody for pay".....that freaks them out.....

Telegraph's take: question authority....question claims....poke holes in theories.....and have fun while you are at it......don't accept stuff from unverified sources as 'gospel truth'.....whatever that is supposed to be.....(an oxymoron, like Jumbo shrimp?)....think.....assemble the facts and see if they really make sense when you look at them.....

I'm not a big believer in the philosophy of project management/engineering when you get to the end of the flow chart for the program/design, and the last box is "and then a miracle occurs".......




Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
telegraph writes,

What else! Telegraph History....... print run 100 copies...all sold out......"Never Enough Capacity - The Story of the Telegraph 1837-1937"...not even copyrighted..... sold all privately to other telegraph collectors....lots of good reference material within....but not as good as Oslin's Book, THe STory of Telecommuncations, if you just want a nice read..... Mine is all technology for people who already understand more than the basic principles (advanced stuff).


Working on another one...... on the Atlantic Cable...but just had two other books released on same subject in past two years....hmmmm....


Very interesting. I've actually seen both ends of the Atlantic cable (Heart's Content, Newfoundland, Canada and Valentia, County Kerry, Ireland), but I agree there's probably a small market for this stuff.

intercst
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
hee hee hee. Telegraph, you sure do love to use question marks. But that's what makes you the Master of Tough Questions. The tougher the question, the more question marks used! But I appreciate your skepticism. I'll ask around (Marshall Reddick is pretty well known in Los Angeles) to find answers to your intelligent questions.

HOWEVER! You don't think it's possible--indeed necessary--to purchase real estate at a discount to make a lot of money? If you don't think it's possible, why don't you think it's possible? Have you never met anyone who did it? Is it only possible to buy undervalued stocks--the proverbial 100-bagger?????????? (Oops, sorry ... your question marks are contagious!)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
CC: Well, are you a best selling author? If so, will you tell us what field?

Telegraph: Ah, see, if I narrow the field enough, just about anyone can be a 'best selling' author....if there is almost no competition, then if you write a book, and sell 100 copies, you are the 'best selling' author in that field. Or maybe sell 1000 or 10000.....who knows, the Beardstown Ladies sold a bundle before their 'mistake' was found....

Working on another one...... on the Atlantic Cable..


Over the pas t few years,.......I haVe had apple opportunity......to reed many uf your "posts"........and acKnowiledge your possession...... of 'ENCYCLO;PEDIC KNOWleDGE'...........that will know doubt c0 me on handy should you,, compote in the local TRIVAL PURSooT CHAlLEGE!!!!!!!!!! Are gong you to share.....this knowLledge with through books and articles ????????? I wood only suggest.......that you hire........a good ghastWri ter or a digilent.........and patent editer!!!!!! <grinch>

Nez8 0sCooK
REfi.....det 344 !!!!????////
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Telegraph! You have a soul-mate in the Real Estate Guru Bullsh*t Detection business! Here's what I found at the web site of John T. Reed, self-appointed scam buster/buy-my-books-instead real estate guru. The only way I can tell the two of you apart is Reed's appalling lack of exclamatory punctuation.

http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html#anchor535653

-----

Marshall E. Reddick a.k.a. Real Estate Foreclosures—I do not recommend. Reportedly advocates investing in a type of property where he or an associate gets a commission for selling it to you. In general, you should not get investment advice from persons who receive a commission if you buy the investment they recommend. An investor who went on one of Reddick's buying trips said they bought only VA repos that were listed with Realtors®. Furthermore, they told the buyers to bid 15% over asking price, which is typically market value. Why bid 15% over asking price? Because they “wanted their students to be the successful bidders.” Not to mention the fact that the “teachers” also wanted to be the successful salesmen who got the 6% commission on the deal—commissions that were inflated by 15% above what they would normally get. The teachers rationalize overpaying by predicting appreciation and urging students to hold for the long term. I've heard that one before. Why not pay market and hold for the long term?

One of Reddick's seminars is called “Profiting with fixer uppers with or without the work.” I have done fixer uppers and interviewed many fixers and read virtually every fixer book. I know of no way to do it without work---either carpentry, etc. or hiring carpenters, etc.—neither of which is easy.

Another of his seminars is “How to reduce your income taxes to zero.” I have written 17 editions of the book Aggressive Tax Avoidance for Real Estate Investors. In general, reducing your taxes to zero is so difficult that it almost certainly is not worth the trouble. There is a point of diminishing returns in almost everything. To eliminate state income and sales tax, you would have to move to a state with neither. I believe that means New Hampshire. To eliminate taxes on interest, you would have to put all your non-real-estate money into municipal bonds and not live in the municipality in question if that town has a city income tax. There are also disadvantages to reducing your taxes to zero, like not being eligible for social security. The main way I know to reduce your taxes to zero would be to move to New Hampshire and do nothing but buy and sell principal residences for a profit every two years.

Reddick is a PhD and was a professor of business and economics at California State University, Los Angeles until 1/00 when he retired. He also teaches at 22 other southern California colleges. I surmise Reddick is one of many real estate agents, lawyers, insurance agents, etc. who, to generate business, teach Saturday extension courses sponsored by colleges. The quality of such courses is generally good, but varies.

He also says he is a member of the National Speakers Association and holds its “coveted” Certified Speaking Professional designation, as does Zig Ziglar. I am a former member of NSA. I quit after just one year. There are two associations for speakers. The other is the International Platform Association. IPA seemed to consist mainly of men and women of distinction—famous news anchors, actresses, generals, and so forth—who also make speeches. IPA members Wolf Blitzer and Colin Powell do not have the “coveted” Certified Speaking Professional designation; they have the even more coveted $75,000-a-pop speaking fees. NSA seemed to consist mainly of plain Janes whose only accomplishment was speaking. Dale Carnegie said the ability to speak in public was a “shortcut to distinction.” The NSA people, for the most part, struck me as the type who could only achieve distinction by taking a shortcut.

NSA had some impressive guys, but most were pathetic. I do not know which category Reddick is in. But NSA was one of two organizations I have ever joined which immediately inspired me to say, “Let me out of here!” (The other was Mensa, which I quit after two meetings because they reeked of body odor! I kid you not.)

60 Minutes did a program about the NSA on 4/16/00. It featured Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins. Like the 60 Minutes program I appeared on (3/16/86) regarding nothing-down seminars, the correspondent was Morley Safer. Safer made fun of the speaking business. Colin Powell was also on the program. He also gets a private plane to take him to speeches. As far as I know, he is not an NSA member.

I am told also that Reddick sets up a property-management contract with a real estate broker in the distant area where these properties are located. You should never use independent, fee-paid property managers. There are only three sound choices regarding real estate property management: do it yourself, hire a salaried employee to do it, or do not own the property. Someone should start an “I hired an independent property manager” horror stories Web site. It would have thousands of eager contributors, each of which would focus on one of two consistent themes: overcharges/kickbacks and neglect.

-----

Telegraph, with the fifty bucks I was thinking of spending to go see Reddick, maybe I should buy Reed's books instead? But only if he offers a money-back guarantee, right?




Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 19
galeno decrees:

This board is mainly about getting to FIRE and staying there via LTBH equity investing.

Who and when was that decided?

Many of us have been very successful, long-term FIREs with this strategy and we are interested in fine-tuning this strategy. We are NOT interested in market timing, real estate, gold, barbie dolls etc.

In the old days, a good post on this board could get 100 sometimes 200 recs. Now 20 is commendable. On Goofy's recent poll, there were only 15 who claimed to be RE and immune to any downturns. Add in 8-10 marginals and 80 wannabes; where do you get "many of us"? Barely 100 participants in this board that at one time may have had several hundred. Why is that? TMF dues. Perhaps. Rec limits. That also. Boredom with the narrow minded viewpoints on the board. No doubt. Attrition of FIRE's and wannabe's due to having seen their high equity allocations go south over the past two years to the extent that FIRE is just another pipe dream. Darn right.

I have no objection to your approach to FIRE. I even tend to give you the benefit of the doubt because, if I recall correctly, you are acquainted with the Terhorsts and they seem like such nice people. It is also hard for me to imagine that 4 kids and the woman that bore them would let you get away with being such a jerk for very long. Having said that, I appreciate a variety of information and cannot responsibly rely soly on the advice of one residing in third world exile who:

a) is unable to understand the words of Dylan.
b) can't comprehend of situations where others may find real estate, and other investment strategies including Barbie dolls to their benefit.
c) lives in a place where if a few of the real estate posters wanted to pool their assets, they could probably buy the country. OTOH successful real estaters know its location, location, location so its a moot point.
d) frequently behaves like a crackpot in desperate need of a personality transplant

Please allow others to post unabated. If we need your help to determine what is valuable and what is not, we know where to find you.

nas90skog
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 11
nas90skog writes:
Having said that, I appreciate a variety of information and cannot responsibly rely soly on the advice of one residing in third world exile who:

a) is unable to understand the words of Dylan.
b) can't comprehend of situations where others may find real estate, and other investment strategies including Barbie dolls to their benefit.
c) lives in a place where if a few of the real estate posters wanted to pool their assets, they could probably buy the country. OTOH successful real estaters know its location, location, location so its a moot point.
d) frequently behaves like a crackpot in desperate need of a personality transplant


I am convinced that the web persona of galeno is not real. In attitude and bearing, it seems to bear a striking resemblance to the obnoxious lounge singer Tony Clifton (an incarnation of Andy Kaufman), an egomaniac, womanizing provocateur.

He apparently despises the U.S yet he bankrolls its corporations. He is a doctor who extols the benefits of exercise, yet smokes dope. He is married with children but acts the role of a womanizer. He hates real estate but owns real estate and invests in real estate-backed debt. If he is for real, he is one conflicted individual.

Regards,
FMO
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
nas90skog wrote:
Please allow others to post unabated. If we need your help to determine what is valuable and what is not, we know where to find you.

From now on forward, my executive decree ALLOWS ALL who would like to post here to post freely. You now have permission from ME, THE GALENO, the holy emperor and president for life of the REHP board.

If I discover EVEN ONE person who disobeys my decree. Swift and just punishment will be administered in a timely fashion.

Signed,

Galeno
"The highest of the high"



Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
GWM wrote:
He apparently despises the U.S yet he bankrolls its corporations. He is a doctor who extols the benefits of exercise, yet smokes dope. He is married with children but acts the role of a womanizer. He hates real estate but owns real estate and invests in real estate-backed debt. If he is for real, he is one conflicted individual.

Hey, I'm a great looking, highly educated, extremely intelligent, physically fit, racially pure and totally sexy LATINO. The Aryan Latino (I'm a highly respected charter member of the Central American branch of the National Alliance...William Pierce may God rest his soul...) has a far more complex personality and deals with the duality and dichotomies of life far better than the average simple minded, spoiled, fat, and racially mongrelized American.

Hey, I surf, I ski, and I'm good-looking. What else could you expect? <grin> And...I don't like GOLF!! At least not yet at my tender young age of 45.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
galeno writes:
Hey, I'm a great looking, highly educated, extremely intelligent, physically fit, racially pure and totally sexy LATINO. The Aryan Latino (I'm a highly respected charter member of the Central American branch of the National Alliance...William Pierce may God rest his soul...) has a far more complex personality and deals with the duality and dichotomies of life far better than the average simple minded, spoiled, fat, and racially mongrelized American.

Hey, I surf, I ski, and I'm good-looking. What else could you expect? <grin> And...I don't like GOLF!! At least not yet at my tender young age of 45.


I rest my case. You're not fooling me galeno.

Regards,
FMO
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
galeno states:
From now on forward, my executive decree ALLOWS ALL who would like to post here to post freely. You now have permission from ME, THE GALENO, the holy emperor and president for life of the REHP board.



At first I thought “How dare galeno” state that he is the president and emperor when intercst is the true emperor and peresident of this board. Then I realized that intercst would view being emperor and president as too much work!!!<grin>

Leolo
56 months to FIRE
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
WaikikiLeolo writes,

<<<<galeno states:
From now on forward, my executive decree ALLOWS ALL who would like to post here to post freely. You now have permission from ME, THE GALENO, the holy emperor and president for life of the REHP board.>>>>


At first I thought “How dare galeno” state that he is the president and emperor when intercst is the true emperor and peresident of this board. Then I realized that intercst would view being emperor and president as too much work!!!<grin>


You got that right. I'm happy to let galeno assume all presidential and imperial duties.

I've always measured success by how little I do, and how few people I "report" to. <grin>

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
The just and mighty king intercst decrees:
You got that right. I'm happy to let galeno assume all presidential and imperial duties. I've always measured success by how little I do, and how few people I "report" to. <grin>

OK. It's official now. I humbly assume all presidential and imperial duties of the REHP Board. The Great and Just Intercst (ex-president for life and holy emperor of the REHP Board) is granted by executive decree to be an honorary senator for life (a la Pinochet) of this board and thus has total immunity from any and all inditements and prosecutions for all alleged past actions.

As the new master mind and "royal WE" club president for life and holy emperor of this board, I welcome all members, new and old and declare by executive decree that this board is now censorship free. Any and all posts are welcome and restrictions on board debate will now end.

Violators of this new covenant will be forced to confront the mighty warrior hocus in word to word combat to the death!!

Signed,

Galeno
New president for life and holy emperor (i.e. the highest of the high)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
Galeno
"The highest of the high"


Agreed. Context is everything I guess. <LOL>

Golfwaymore
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Galeno declares...

GWM wrote:
He apparently despises the U.S yet he bankrolls its corporations. He is a doctor who extols the benefits of exercise, yet smokes dope. He is married with children but acts the role of a womanizer. He hates real estate but owns real estate and invests in real estate-backed debt. If he is for real, he is one conflicted individual.


No, I didnt.

Your letting your emotions get the better of you....dude.

Golfwaymore

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
GWM wrote:
Your letting your emotions get the better of you....dude.

Yes. Being coronated holy emperor and president for life was a highly emotional event for myself and the new royal family. This new emperor like the old, cares deeply about his loyal subjects. Sometimes, I allow my subjects to see my human and emotional side. No one wants to be ruled by a machine or a heartless tyrant.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Hey, I'm ... LATINO.

That 'splains it, Lucy.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
HOWEVER! You don't think it's possible--indeed necessary--to purchase real estate at a discount to make a lot of money? If you don't think it's possible, why don't you think it's possible? Have you never met anyone who did it? Is it only possible to buy undervalued stocks--the proverbial 100-bagger?????????? (Oops, sorry ... your question marks are contagious!)

Yes, of course. BUt most people who do spend a lot of time (a real lot of time) doing hundreds of hours of work, and know the market extremely well, and also have a little bit of luck. And most of them are willing to fix the problems (either title, condition, decorating, etc) that caused the lower selling price. There are always bargains. There are also false bargains. And sometimes you just get a bargain that turns into a lemon.

I know many people with a 'rental' or apartment units. They winds up eating a lot of their time. They worry about going away for weeks on a trip. Fine while you are 'accummulating'. Not so fine when you want to be 'retired early' and not tied down.

I know of several people who have made fair profit on houses. Most spent dozens, if not hundreds of hours fixing them up. (and money). It is 'work'. If you know what you are doing, you can make good money. So can a consultant at $100-150/hr for 100 hours.

It is certainly possible to buy undervalued stock. However, the great majority of people don't do it. If it were that simple, every 'expert' on Wall Street would easily beat the SP500 average, the Wilshire 5000 average and DOW year after year without fail. As it is , 90% of them fail each year to even match the average, and after 5 years, 95% of them are behind the average. So much for 'stock picking'. And that is the supposed 'experts' who often have better, more timely info.

Most people who wind up with 100 baggers do it by picking 10 or more stocks. If one turns into a 100 bagger, great. They are ahead. I've had some nice picks.

I know of few who have had 30% of more 100 baggers.....and most didn't sell when it peaked (ala dot.com) so they had it...but lost it.

Often the best way is to pick companies you think will do well long term, and stick with them. Walmart.....GE.....QCOM..... many have done very well over 10 or 20 years.

But most people get 'rich' by also benefitting from the 'average' increases, with a few winners thrown in.

People can make money in real estate. It just isn't a 1 hour a week job as far as I can tell, like the promos on TV seem to make it be. After all, if these infomercial people are really that successful and wealthy, why the heck are they pitching the heck out of their system? If they are worth 50 or 100 million, do they really have to be selling you something?

On a 100 million portfolio, at 4%, you only have $400,000 a year income....oh, they need more? And with their system, they must be generating 10 million a year in cash flow.

So why is your 'expert' willing to work 200 days a year???

Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
telegraph writes,

People can make money in real estate. It just isn't a 1 hour a week job as far as I can tell, like the promos on TV seem to make it be. After all, if these infomercial people are really that successful and wealthy, why the heck are they pitching the heck out of their system? If they are worth 50 or 100 million, do they really have to be selling you something?

On a 100 million portfolio, at 4%, you only have $400,000 a year income....oh, they need more? And with their system, they must be generating 10 million a year in cash flow.

So why is your 'expert' willing to work 200 days a year???


Telegraph,

I going to have to ask RPI to recall your engineering degree. A 4% withdrawal from a $100 million portfolio is $4 million/year not $400,000. <grin>

intercst
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
So why is your 'expert' willing to work 200 days a year???

Thanks, Telegraph, for taking the time to respond so comprehensively. But why do you nearly always have to end your otherwise excellent posts with a zinger? I didn't say--nor did I infer--that he [Marshall Reddick] is "my" expert. I don't even know the guy! ... yet.

Here I am, reading along, going, "uh huh...good point...hmmm...yup, I can see that..." and then you end with a disparaging comment.

You've been hanging around intercst too long. <grin>
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I going to have to ask RPI to recall your engineering degree. A 4% withdrawal from a $100 million portfolio is $4 million/year not $400,000. <grin>

intercst


oops......

Yeah.....been out in the texas sun this weekend...or maybe that was after tax? or brain fade after catching up on 150 posts on a empty stomach.....? 4 million a year income and still working...must be 'fun' work.

I quit working when someone asked me if I'd go to 'work' for free.....and it dawned upon me I didn't 'need' the money.....

I'd have a hard enough time spending $400,000/year no less 4 million.....all the 'stuff' you have to keep track of, or all the people you gotta hire to keep track of it..... well, I suppose if you got a high-maintenance spouse, that could solve the problem.





Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1

Here I am, reading along, going, "uh huh...good point...hmmm...yup, I can see that..." and then you end with a disparaging comment


Sorry, not intented to hurt you, just poke fun at the 'high profile' position of the real estate guru... and suggest that while it might be worthwhile, just accepting advertisements on face value (and noticing the way things are marketed) is often done without looking behind the first impression.

As you can tell, telegraph is a skeptic and loves poking holes in theories, ideas, godspells, and whatever comes along. I'm totally amazed that so much is accepted on 'faith' without any questioning by 99.99% of the people. One thing I learned along the way - question authority.

Unfortunately, we train our kids to not ask tough questions. Not embarrass people by asking 'why', or saying 'this doesn't make sense', when things don't seem to make sense, or just plain don't make sense. They readily accept lots of 'garbage' fed to them, because 'that is the way it is'.

Then again, it is often easier to 'make up' answers, and if you you don't question someone who 'makes up' answers or statistics (hmmm, what is it , 37% of all statistics are made up? - grin), or check alternate sources , or cross check things logically, then many times things turn out not to be the way someone claimed them to be. Or not all the time.

At least we got you thinking -




Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
At least we got you thinking...

You did indeed, oh Skeptical One. :-)
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
telegraph is a skeptic and loves poking holes in theories, ideas, godspells, and whatever comes along. I'm totally amazed that so much is accepted on 'faith' without any questioning by 99.99% of the people. One thing I learned along the way - question authority.

Unfortunately, we train our kids to not ask tough questions. Not embarrass people by asking 'why', or saying 'this doesn't make sense', when things don't seem to make sense, or just plain don't make sense. They readily accept lots of 'garbage' fed to them, because 'that is the way it is'.


Right on, Telegraph!

Print the post Back To Top