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https://www.wsj.com/articles/baby-boomers-are-living-at-home...

Occupancy rates for senior housing stood at 87.9% in both the second and third quarter—the lowest rate since 2011 when it reached 87.5%, according to NIC, which tracks market-rate properties.

Occupancy levels for assisted-living facilities, a category of senior housing, are also at their lowest levels since reporting on this data began in 2006, NIC said.

“There’s been a severe supply problem,” said Jeffrey Yurk, a portfolio manager who specializes in the health-care sector at Heitman’s North American Public Real Estate Securities Group. He has reduced investments in REITs with bigger exposure to senior housing.
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Since we plan to move to a retirement community in the near future, this may be good news for us. Prices should come down.

Is anyone else planning to (or living in) a retirement community? Comments?

CNC
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Since we plan to move to a retirement community in the near future, this may be good news for us. Prices should come down.

As someone that's been looking for someplace new for some time, I would say prices are going up. Because the new places are charging a lot more.

In the past year, we've only seriously considered two places. Both would be at least 50% more than where we are now. And the apartments are smaller.

The trend is to offer more and more in amenities.

One new place that recently broke ground is reportedly going to have prices between $8K and $12K per month. But they're advertising "you'll never even need to leave your apartment". They'll have a medical community right on the "campus".

Of the dozens of places we've looked at, size of the apartment has been the biggest limiting factor. I'm in a wheelchair, and many have bathrooms that I couldn't even turn around in with the wheelchair. I could only go straight in and back out. And access to the showers would be very difficult.

I can't understand how apartments designed for seniors could fail to design for prominent use of walkers and wheelchairs and scooters. Narrow hallways. Awkward turns, especially for doors.

The last place we looked at had so many doors. Each door requires space to swing open. That's wasted space in an apartment, and awkward for those with walkers and such.
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I can't understand how apartments designed for seniors could fail to design for prominent use of walkers and wheelchairs and scooters. Narrow hallways. Awkward turns, especially for doors.

They took all that into consideration and decided they only want the easy cases. If you pose a problem for them and their low-hanging-fruit business model, adios.
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<<The last place we looked at had so many doors. Each door requires space to swing open. That's wasted space in an apartment, and awkward for those with walkers and such.>>



It usually takes ten minutes or so to remove a door.....



Seattle Pioneer
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"It usually takes ten minutes or so to remove a door.....



Seattle Pioneer "

***********************************************************************

Takes longer to widen the opening - and the swing-space allotment stays
in place forever.

However, the removal is pretty simple and low cost.

Howie52
We have a home with restricted access to various areas. DW can get through now but
future issues are visible.
But the future is always hazy at best.
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"Awkward turns, especially for doors."


Time to bring back the pocket-doors.
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"Awkward turns, especially for doors."

Time to bring back the pocket-doors.


Interestingly (Depending on your attention span, I suppose) our house has three pocket doors.

CNC
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"Awkward turns, especially for doors."

Time to bring back the pocket-doors.


Unfortunately, most of the bathrooms in houses these days are narrow and long with the door on the narrow end making it impractical or impossible to construct a pocket door.
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Here at Spring Lake Village (CCRC) in Santa Rosa, CA there is a waiting list of 136 people for independent living. There are lots of baby boomers are out there.
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Here at Spring Lake Village (CCRC) in Santa Rosa, CA there is a waiting list of 136 people for independent living.

Do you live there? Congratulations! How do you like it?

We have friends who live in Stoneridge Creek in Pleasanton. Being in the Bay area, it is naturally expensive. (I would guess Santa Rosa is expensive.)

The same group has a brand new one (La Costa Glen) in Carlsbad, and another (Reata Glen) in San Juan Capistrano. We interviewed Reata Glen before it was finished. They looked at our financials and sniffed maybe we should consider a one bedroom unit instead of two.

I understand when a facility is new, it will be populated mainly by younger people and the waiting list is longer. Over time, the age distribution will smooth out.

CNC
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Here at Spring Lake Village (CCRC) in Santa Rosa, CA there is a waiting list of 136 people for independent living. There are lots of baby boomers are out there.

I wonder ... if there is a glut of senior housing, why are there waiting lists to get into one?

CNC
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Since we plan to move to a retirement community in the near future, this may be good news for us. Prices should come down.

Is anyone else planning to (or living in) a retirement community? Comments?

CNC



We went with my FIL when he looked into a couple of places but never moved into an Assisted Living and passed away a few months later. Fast forward 5 years and my Mom was considering moving into one now. Prices were well over $1,000 higher at the places we had looked at and new fees were also added.

Utahtea....not looking for us yet
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"I wonder ... if there is a glut of senior housing, why are there waiting lists to get into one?

CNC "

**********************************************
Location.
Location.
Location.

Howie52
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"I wonder ... if there is a glut of senior housing, why are there waiting lists to get into one?

CNC "

**********************************************
Location.
Location.
Location.

Howie52


Troo dat.

It may also be that there is a surplus of housing in the type of Old Folks Homes from 20+ years ago. No one would want to live there. Two beds in a room. My Dad died in one. But he was senile, crippled and though not poor, but not all that well off. And Mom was stingy to the ultra max.

CNC
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Utahtea: We went with my FIL when he looked into a couple of places but never moved into an Assisted Living and passed away a few months later.

The more modern places are not "Assisted Living". Continuing Care Retirement Community is defined as offering graduated living arrangements beginning with independent living, with the facility providing for room and board, typically an apartment (or a bungalo) and a community dining room. The ones we have seen offer excellent food. Some are buffet style, some have waiters like a restaurant. The food we have seen is excellent - better than we normally prepare for ourselves (Sometimes a "Box Dinner" - frozen food from the grocery store.) 😉

CNC
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The ones we have seen offer excellent food. Some are buffet style, some have waiters like a restaurant.

Is this in new facilities or ones that have been around for years.

There is a fair amount of "bait and switch" at the new facilities.

Our next door neighbor moved to a new facility because she was starting to have problems with the food here. They had at least three chefs -- one for bread, one for desserts, one or two for everything else. She loved the food. Fresh bread at every meal. 6 months later they were down to one chef. Food was awful. She moved out.

The place I live in made a video about 7 years ago. What a joke. Our dining room manager was wearing a suit and tie in the video. We had a hostess stand and he was seating people. They showed steak and lobster being served. Waiters delivering drinks and food to residents at Happy Hour. They don't do any of that here. They even replaced some holes on the putting green and replaced a few benches and other outdoor areas, specifically for the video. But only those that were in the video. When the company sold this location, they used significant portions of that video for their next location. We watched the video on the Internet and saw residents from here (Phoenix) in their new video (Santa Fe location). Even the intro from the executive director at the start was repeated.

LOL. Some of the current video on their web site is still showing our residents.
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rharmelink: Is this in new facilities or ones that have been around for years.

The one (the only one) we visited that had buffet style service was El Castillo in Santa Fe. It has been there for a number of years. The food was good and there was lots of it. Especially desserts, which impressed the Countess.

I am also aware of a Retirement only community in Torrance. I visited some years ago to install some shades in their "community room" which was set up for cards and other games when I was there. At that time they had buffet style meals. I visited them more recently and they have gone to waitered meal service. Could actually be an upgrade?

The one we plan to use has been in place for a long time. They are in cahoots with the Presbyterian Church and an association called "Front Porch" https://frontporch.net/our-communities/ I have not looked into Front Porch much. Maybe I should. All the others I mentioned are new.

There is a fair amount of "bait and switch" at the new facilities. Our next door neighbor moved to a new facility because she was starting to have problems with the food here. They had at least three chefs -- one for bread, one for desserts, one or two for everything else. She loved the food. Fresh bread at every meal. 6 months later they were down to one chef. Food was awful. She moved out.


I wonder what recourse is available in a case like this? The new ones we have seen (and visited) seem well financed. And expensive. I would expect them to stay as they are. The one in Pleasanton has two dining rooms.

We know of several in Santa Barbara that have been there for a long time. Sammarkand is beautiful and has a great dining room. Casa Dorlinda is very much the high priced spread - dress for dinner. I don't expect either of these to change much. One Fool plans to retire there. I won't mention his name - respect his privacy, doncha know.

For all that, some of them seem to be "for profit", so I don't know how much influence the residents may have. But you have given me food for thought. Is it restaurant style food or cafeteria style, I don't know.

CNC
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When we first moved in here 12 years ago, almost every employee had been here since it had opened about 8 years earlier. Lately, it's been like a revolving door around here.

So far this year, we've had 4 executive directors and 5 dining directors. The new executive director is in the process of getting qualified for Arizona. A new dining director starts tomorrow. The last one never even showed up for their first day of work. The previous one walked out mid-shift the first day/week?

I don't know what the issue is -- the owners, the management company, the residents, the other workers, or the competitive job market.
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When we see prices like $8,000 - $12,000 per month for "retirement living", we wonder: Can so many people afford that? How many retirees have incomes in the, say, $150,000/year range? Nobody we know, but I guess we don't travel in the "right" circles.

Our own home, almost paid for, even with all associated costs for heat, electricity, phone, internet, TV, maintenance, etc., comes in at FAR less than that. Add food and so on, it still comes in to a lot less.

To each his or her own, I guess! Whatever works for people!

Vermonter
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Vermonter: When we see prices like $8,000 - $12,000 per month for "retirement living", we wonder: Can so many people afford that? How many retirees have incomes in the, say, $150,000/year range? Nobody we know, but I guess we don't travel in the "right" circles.

The one we plan on using is a bit over $5200 a month for a 2 BR apartment. Includes room (with weekly cleaning) and board, local transportation, and the like. Others we have seen are generally more, especially for the newly built ones. (They to seem to be more lavish.) If we need extra care (read assisted living) there will be a charge for that, if and when we need it*. If skilled nursing is needed, there is a big increase, which may be partly paid by medicare.

CNC
*assistance ranges. Do we need help to remember to take our meds? Do we need help bathing? Getting dressed (and undressed?)
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The more modern places are not "Assisted Living". Continuing Care Retirement Community is defined as offering graduated living arrangements beginning with independent living, with the facility providing for room and board, typically an apartment (or a bungalo) and a community dining room. The ones we have seen offer excellent food. Some are buffet style, some have waiters like a restaurant. The food we have seen is excellent - better than we normally prepare for ourselves (Sometimes a "Box Dinner" - frozen food from the grocery store.) 😉

The place my 94 year old FIL put a deposit on and then changed his mind was both. He would have been getting a room that was independent living but could be changed to an assisted living unit when he needed it but it would cost more when the time came. It was one bedroom, family room and very large kitchenette. Not all the units at this place were classified as being both. They treated us to lunch as part of their sales pitch and it was very good.

Utahtea
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We went with my FIL when he looked into a couple of places but never moved into an Assisted Living and passed away a few months later. Fast forward 5 years and my Mom was considering moving into one now. Prices were well over $1,000 higher at the places we had looked at and new fees were also added.

Utahtea....not looking for us yet


Entry fees and monthly fees usually go up annually about 3-5%.
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Do you live there? Congratulations! How do you like it?

We have friends who live in Stoneridge Creek in Pleasanton. Being in the Bay area, it is naturally expensive. (I would guess Santa Rosa is expensive.)

The same group has a brand new one (La Costa Glen) in Carlsbad, and another (Reata Glen) in San Juan Capistrano. We interviewed Reata Glen before it was finished. They looked at our financials and sniffed maybe we should consider a one bedroom unit instead of two.

I understand when a facility is new, it will be populated mainly by younger people and the waiting list is longer. Over time, the age distribution will smooth out.

CNC


We have been here 4 years and like it very much. If you are considering a CCRC I suggest that you pick one that is non-profit. For-profit places have to answer to stockholders. Spring Lake Village is run by Covia a non-profit. https://covia.org/
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The place my 94 year old FIL put a deposit on and then changed his mind was both. He would have been getting a room that was independent living but could be changed to an assisted living unit when he needed it but it would cost more when the time came. It was one bedroom, family room and very large kitchenette. Not all the units at this place were classified as being both. They treated us to lunch as part of their sales pitch and it was very good.

Utahtea


Why did he change his mind? The places we know all charge more for assisted living, then yet more for "memory care" (means you're senile or ALZ), and much more for nursing care. The "memory care" facilities are typically locked, for the protection of the residents (Inmates?)

CNC
... You referred to "a room" which threw me. You meant to say "an apartment."
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I just turned 84. I'm staying in my two story house on five acres.

Birgit
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I've probably boasted far too often to you all about how happy we are in our CCRC. But yes, if we hadn't sold a house in California we wouldn't be able to afford it as easily. We have 100% occupancy right now, and a waiting list of over 200 people...

It is pretty new ( 6 years old) . When we arrived, our place, like all the others, had support bars in the bathroom toilets, showers and baths ( we have two full bathrooms) and we know lots of people have wheelchairs, that the apartments or villas all accommodate....
Our apartment is over 1400 sq. ft but it looks a bit crowded because we personally brought too much heavy furniture in my opinion, wall bookcases, and newly built-in bookcases, desks etc etc..my husband is still working, because he loves it..

Today our choir led the monthly sing-along at the Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, Memory care building on our campus...and what is nice to see is people who normally doze, no longer talk, or even listen to others, will suddenly start mouthing all the words of our songs...( today were carols of course)...and appear to perk up, and sing, at least for that hour....

This is a new part of the Bay Area for us, so every Wednesday we go out on "date night" and explore restaurants....tonight was a new hot pot Asian restaurant...half a mile from our front door.

We feel blessed.
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I just turned 84. I'm staying in my two story house on five acres.

Birgit


Are you alone? What if you get sick? Is there someone to take care of you? Will you hire caretakers? Do you still drive (or have other means of transportation?)

I don't ask to be mean. I helped my wife in her small drapery/window covering store for several years by installing some of her sales. Much of her business came from upscale neighborhoods with large houses. I saw many elderly women living alone in their mansions, with 24-hr care givers and house keepers. A very lonely life. I suppose they could afford it, but I came away wanting to be sure the Countess would never have to live in such a situation, hence the planned move to a retirement community, which we have yclept the Old Folks Home (OFH). My hope (and she agrees) is that we will like living in a community of our relative peers, and we might even make friends. My horror story is her dying alone in a big house and no one even knows. (I am some years her elder.)

That plus we are tired of taking care of a large house and garden by ourselves.

But tastes and desirements do differ. Both of my wife's parents swore that when they leave their house it will be "feet first" - in other words they planned to stay in the house until they die. As luck would have it, my FIL had a serious asthma attack last Christmas which put him in the hospital for a week, and then a "convalescent" center for another two weeks. He did return home, but he is a very sick man. Besides the asthma, there is COPD and I don't know what all. The burden of caring for him has fallen to his wife. Neither of them drive. His cognition has declined to the point he can't use his computer except to play card games. He is so weak he goes from his bed to his easy chair and then back. Not much of a life. MIL has seen up close what it's like to be helpless and infirm. She has changed her tune about retirement. She now says that when he is gone she wants to move to a retirement home. That big sigh you heard was from me and the Countess. Oh. MIL is 85 and does have minor aches and pains, but of more concern is that her vision is fading. We hope she will accept our guidance on selection a retirement home. We have been reconnoitering some of the facilities in her area. Some are very comfortable and she would surely be better off there than alone in a house. (The Countess accused me of "meddlng", until she saw how nice the retirement places are.)

CNC
... note: I didn't say they were inexpensive. A one bedroom apartment, with three chef prepared meals a day is $7000 a month for the better ones. They all have a small bus to take the residents shopping or to medical appointments or other small trips.
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malaoshi: Our apartment is over 1400 sq. ft but it looks a bit crowded because we personally brought too much heavy furniture in my opinion, wall bookcases, and newly built-in bookcases, desks etc etc..my husband is still working, because he loves it..

I have seen her apartment, and it is beautiful, even lavish - more lavish than we plan for our retirement. Two dining rooms on premises, IIRC. Her testimony convinced us of the wisdom of moving to an "Old Folks Home".

CNC
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<<MIL has seen up close what it's like to be helpless and infirm. She has changed her tune about retirement. She now says that when he is gone she wants to move to a retirement home. >>


I think that's a smart choice.



<<I just turned 84. I'm staying in my two story house on five acres.

Birgit>>



I do not think that's a smart choice. Become infirm, as many will, and you are supremely isolated and helpless, unless you have an extensive network of trusted servants, who are going to be sorely tempted to rip you off. And if you are expecting family members to take care of you in that situation, you should expect them to be paying you a fancy fee for doing so.


Personally, as a now seventy year old single man living alone, I anticipate checking out at some point without writing a last chapter of decline into death.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<And if you are expecting family members to take care of you in that situation, you should expect them to be paying you a fancy fee for doing so.>>



That should have been "you should expect to be paying THEM a fancy fee for taking care of YOU."



Seattle Pioneer
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FollyDolly:

"I just turned 84. I'm staying in my two story house on five acres."

Good luck to you. Though the two-story home makes me shudder, I admit.

You sound like us. We'll both be 80 next year, and, yes, we have some minor health issues, but we want to stay right here in this home until it is physically impossible.

Mind you, we are mainly on one floor, on a ridge with a walkout floor/basement level (a second floor below has 2 bedrooms and a bath, plus the furnace and water systems, etc.) that is just a couple of steps above ground level. Our bedroom, main bathroom, family room (where we spend most of the time), nice kitchen, dining room, a foyer (and powder room), and living room are all on this level.

Our main bath was redone a few years back, and has a lovely walk-in shower (with grab bar) PLUS a separate tub for times when we want or need it, high toilet, and -- a must -- washer and dryer right there, behind bifold doors. We made sure the entrances to all rooms will accommodate a wheelchair, too, if need be. There are handles along the way for those needing them when walking.

Costwise, it is FAR, FAR cheaper for us to live right here than in one of those seemingly very costly "assisted living" apartments -- not to mention the fact that we would HATE to have to be surrounded by a beehive of other people! Even if we had to pay people to come and take care of us, the cost to live right here would be far less than the $10,000/month we hear quoted. And either of us could manage the cost alone, if need be.

We have the driveway plowed (yes, we both drive, though that may fade, we realize), and the walk shoveled, and could have the lawn mowed, when I am unable to do it any more (I still do it fine, with a push powermower AND rider mower). We are also blessed to have a daughter and husband who live a few miles away, and who are very attentive if needed, plus another daughter and family another hour farther away.

We all need to plan what will work for us, but we need to do so independently, not always blindly following along what others say we "must" do.


Vermonter
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RetiredVermonter!

I enjoy your posts very much so. I love knowing that there are good people living quietly on their own and who reject and dislike group activities and forced camaraderie. The only major differences between us are our ages (50s here) and our internal clocks. I've never been able to enjoy an early rise. It isn't in me. I see beyond midnight every night. Often to 3-4am.I'm a night owl. I prefer to join the day already in progress.

But everyone should be themselves. Happy New Year to you and yours. Thanks for making this board an interesting read.

Cheers to all,

SD
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SD:

Thanks for the words.

I simply feel that we all need to live our lives as WE see appropriate, as long as we don't harm anyone else or interfere with others' lives, and that may mean thinking for ourselves instead of what "everyone else thinks".

Truth is, we never know what may becoming around the corner...

Peace and Happy New Year.

Vermonter
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CNC:

"A one bedroom apartment, with three chef prepared meals a day is $7000 a month for the better ones. They all have a small bus to take the residents shopping or to medical appointments or other small trips. "

Cost aside (we never could afford a place like that), to have to live in one-bedroom apartment like that makes me feel claustrophobic. And I couldn't care less about the three chefs (!). I honestly think I'd rather just end it all, if that was where I had to exist for the rest of my life.

To each his or her own, obviously.

Vermonter
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CNC:

The one we plan on using is a bit over $5200 a month for a 2 BR apartment. Includes room (with weekly cleaning) and board, local transportation, and the like

Apparently, you can afford that monthly cost, so I'll let that go, even though we'd go broke in that situation.

Do you live in an apartment or condo now? Or do you currently have a separate home? (I may not have read carefully enough; sorry.) I ask because we lived in an apartment when we were first married, MANY years ago, and could not wait to get into our own little home (and it was little). We craved the privacy, the peace and quiet of no one above, below or next to us; and the feeling of being just the two of us (until little punkins came along, which was okay, too!) Today, we are retired, again in our own home, on several mostly wooded acres, and the quiet is pure delight. Occasionally, a vehicle goes by on the dirt road 150 feet or more from the house, and that's it.

I know many people enjoy having others all around them, and they feel fine moving into a retirement situation where that is still the case. But what of those out there who moved from their own private home to a "community" setting? How do you feel? Have you found it enjoyable?

I'm honestly curious.

Vermonter
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CNC: The one we plan on using is a bit over $5200 a month for a 2 BR apartment. Includes room (with weekly cleaning) and board, local transportation, and the like

Vermonter: Apparently, you can afford that monthly cost, so I'll let that go, even though we'd go broke in that situation.


Well, it does include three restaurant quality meals a day, weekly house cleaning, etc. Expensive? Yes. But we worked hard and saved our money. We can afford it. And we don't plan on endowing a university in any case.

People we know who live in a retirement home seem more than satisfied with their choice. These are not the cheap apartments I remember from my youth. (There was a neighbor with a barking dog. The landlord refused to do anything about it.)

We currently live in the largest two-bedroom house I have ever seen. the main floor has four rooms, but they are huge rooms. Then there is the guest cottage in back and a MIL apartment in the basement. Large enough garden to keep an old fart such as myself entertained. (Two large orange trees give me fresh juice every day of the year. First strawberries of the year are coming soon!) In short, the house is far too large for us and our two cats.

Our combined SS almost covers the monthly cost of the OFH, no?

CNC
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What? No, baby, no. Seattle Pioneer, kids don't do that. Adults don't do that. Good luck!!
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